Friarboy wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

ctrabs0114 wrote:

I wonder if the 744 was the Chargers' charter flight into Pittsburgh.

I believe so. It came in from LAX a couple days ago so now its back to take them back to LA.

What about the 763 to and from CLT? PITT Football played Cemson yesterday so that was probably them but why not use GSP? If it is indeed PITT its pretty funny they have a larger charter than the Steelers.

Pitt's roster shows 112 players. NFL teams are limited to 53. Thus they need a larger aircraft.

Also the game was at Bank of America Stadium in Charlotte.

As I recall, travel rosters for NCAA teams are typically set at 58, regardless of how many players are on the actual roster. So, a 737 or an A320 is typically sufficient for a college football team (though, some teams luck out and end up on a 757 or even a 767 on occasion; for bowl games, however, you'll often see widebodies covering NCAA charters).

flyPIT wrote:

Some Boutique Air news:
-They applied for an EAS contract from Watertown, NY with 3 proposals, one of which included a daily flight to PIT. Even if they are not awarded this it's nice to see them actively trying to expand their presence here.
-They already interline with United and will start an agreement with American this month, and will start taks with Delta.
-They are considering the Piaggio Avanti twin turboprop although it's not much of a capacity increase over the PC-12.
http://northcountrynow.com/news/boutique-air-president-tells-massena-board-they-have-restructured-management-fix-service-issues

For what it's worth, there's a thread on Piaggio that might change those plans:

viewtopic.php?p=20903233#p20903233

New article on the airport in the Post Gazette.

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1812050103

The one and only Michael Boyd is back too!! My how his tone has changed...

When you swing for the fences, “you strike out sometimes. But if you don’t swing, you’re not going to hit anything,” he said. “I look at it as being a positive thing and an airport that isn’t afraid to try anything.”

Didn't he famously say that PIT had all the air service that it's ever going to get and that they shouldn't even try for more??

PITexpress wrote:

New article on the airport in the Post Gazette.

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1812050103

The one and only Michael Boyd is back too!! My how his tone has changed...

When you swing for the fences, “you strike out sometimes. But if you don’t swing, you’re not going to hit anything,” he said. “I look at it as being a positive thing and an airport that isn’t afraid to try anything.”

Didn't he famously say that PIT had all the air service that it's ever going to get and that they shouldn't even try for more??

Yes.

"Somebody really needs to tell the county executive that you have virtually all the air service you're going to get."
https://triblive.com/news/allegheny/5930809-74/airport-authority-harshman

The man is a clown.

People always interview Boyd (in many cities) and he is wrong a lot. I don't get why they keep going back to him.

Jshank83 wrote:

People always interview Boyd (in many cities) and he is wrong a lot. I don't get why they keep going back to him.

Such a media darling apparently.

Nevertheless, the PG article was nice, it comments on a lot of the latest issues: OneJet, Wow, Frontier, etc.

flyPIT wrote:

PITexpress wrote:

New article on the airport in the Post Gazette.

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1812050103

The one and only Michael Boyd is back too!! My how his tone has changed...

When you swing for the fences, “you strike out sometimes. But if you don’t swing, you’re not going to hit anything,” he said. “I look at it as being a positive thing and an airport that isn’t afraid to try anything.”

Didn't he famously say that PIT had all the air service that it's ever going to get and that they shouldn't even try for more??

Yes.

"Somebody really needs to tell the county executive that you have virtually all the air service you're going to get."
https://triblive.com/news/allegheny/5930809-74/airport-authority-harshman

The man is a clown.

The man doesn't have an ounce of credibility on this site, the amount of times he's made incorrect predictions is laughable.

Can't blame the media though, they don't follow aviation enough to be aware of this...

You have to remember that the press knows even less than he does. Once someone establishes themselves as an expert on a topic, they are the easy go-to for these folks.

AaronPGH wrote:

You have to remember that the press knows even less than he does. Once someone establishes themselves as an expert on a topic, they are the easy go-to for these folks.

If only we could get the press to submit their questions to this forum... but alas, we're no 'experts' like Boyd is.

AaronPGH wrote:

You have to remember that the press knows even less than he does. Once someone establishes themselves as an expert on a topic, they are the easy go-to for these folks.

So, who would be a credible commercial aviation source?

PITexpress wrote:

New article on the airport in the Post Gazette.

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1812050103

The one and only Michael Boyd is back too!! My how his tone has changed...

When you swing for the fences, “you strike out sometimes. But if you don’t swing, you’re not going to hit anything,” he said. “I look at it as being a positive thing and an airport that isn’t afraid to try anything.”

Didn't he famously say that PIT had all the air service that it's ever going to get and that they shouldn't even try for more??

I don't know what's funnier. Seeing Michael Boyd turn his stance on a dime or scrolling through the comments section of that article. It's amazing how many people try to convince themselves that the public, JUST the public only, is funding the new terminal and NOT the airlines, tenants, or natural gas revenue.

Here's some more in-depth good and bad the article left out regarding air service:

- AA cutting BOS this month
- B6 cutting FLL next month
- AA reducing DFW to all-A319 again in January and to 3x daily. Also sees a downgrade to an E175 in the spring.
- PHL loses mainline service almost entirely in January and February, mostly replaced by CRJs. Also only showing 4x daily on certain days.
- DL cutting mainline from MSP until April
- DL reducing capacity to ATL
- UA ending mainline service to IAD in April, suspending mainline to IAH Jan-Apr

+ F9 recently adding PBI
+ AA upgrading 4/5 ORD flights to B738s in March and adding a 6th daily flight in April
+ WN going 2x daily to FLL for the spring
+ WN resuming CUN in March
+ UA resuming 2x daily SFO in April
+ Apple Vacations adding more frequencies this spring

On the plus side, most of the bad seems to be going away by April or May and there also seems to be a lot of capacity upgrades coming for the summer between G4, UA, DL, and WN on several routes (pending any schedule updates of course).

The latest Blue Sky blog follows up on the P-G article. I thought this was interesting:
"Like any good scout looking for fresh talent the Air Service Development team, is outlining a five-year air service development strategy that will identify additional nonstop routes and carriers to serve Pittsburgh."
https://blueskypit.com/2018/12/05/swing-for-the-fences/

Runway28L wrote:

- AA cutting BOS this month
- B6 cutting FLL next month
- AA reducing DFW to all-A319 again in January and to 3x daily. Also sees a downgrade to an E175 in the spring.
- PHL loses mainline service almost entirely in January and February, mostly replaced by CRJs. Also only showing 4x daily on certain days.
- DL cutting mainline from MSP until April
- DL reducing capacity to ATL
- UA ending mainline service to IAD in April, suspending mainline to IAH Jan-Apr

+ F9 recently adding PBI
+ AA upgrading 4/5 ORD flights to B738s in March and adding a 6th daily flight in April
+ WN going 2x daily to FLL for the spring
+ WN resuming CUN in March
+ UA resuming 2x daily SFO in April
+ Apple Vacations adding more frequencies this spring

On the plus side, most of the bad seems to be going away by April or May and there also seems to be a lot of capacity upgrades coming for the summer between G4, UA, DL, and WN on several routes (pending any schedule updates of course).

On the minus side there is also the elimination of Cozumel and Freeport by Vacation express.
On the plus side you missed the biggest one of them all, BA to LHR.

Speaking of BA and PIT, how about Pittsburgh being on this list!
http://www.natgeotraveller.co.uk/smart-travel/features/the-cool-list-2019

Pretty cool.

My point was mainly that PGH press seems to pull out their rolodex on topics, flip to their one usual "guy to call about a thing", and not go much further. Boyd is that when the P-G needs an airline quote. Personally, I find it to be a little lazy.

flyPIT wrote:

The latest Blue Sky blog follows up on the P-G article. I thought this was interesting:
"Like any good scout looking for fresh talent the Air Service Development team, is outlining a five-year air service development strategy that will identify additional nonstop routes and carriers to serve Pittsburgh."
https://blueskypit.com/2018/12/05/swing-for-the-fences/

Hasn't this already been in place ever since Cassotis started running things? Or is this a new plan the airport is working on? I do remember her saying that PIT has accomplished most of what they had planned through a 5-year window in only just 3 years.

flyPIT wrote:

Runway28L wrote:

- AA cutting BOS this month
- B6 cutting FLL next month
- AA reducing DFW to all-A319 again in January and to 3x daily. Also sees a downgrade to an E175 in the spring.
- PHL loses mainline service almost entirely in January and February, mostly replaced by CRJs. Also only showing 4x daily on certain days.
- DL cutting mainline from MSP until April
- DL reducing capacity to ATL
- UA ending mainline service to IAD in April, suspending mainline to IAH Jan-Apr

+ F9 recently adding PBI
+ AA upgrading 4/5 ORD flights to B738s in March and adding a 6th daily flight in April
+ WN going 2x daily to FLL for the spring
+ WN resuming CUN in March
+ UA resuming 2x daily SFO in April
+ Apple Vacations adding more frequencies this spring

On the plus side, most of the bad seems to be going away by April or May and there also seems to be a lot of capacity upgrades coming for the summer between G4, UA, DL, and WN on several routes (pending any schedule updates of course).

On the minus side there is also the elimination of Cozumel and Freeport by Vacation express.
On the plus side you missed the biggest one of them all, BA to LHR.

Knew I was missing something regarding the Caribbean. Honestly, it was hard to keep track of those two since they barely operated during their tenure.

I left BA out since it was already mentioned in the article.

Runway28L wrote:

It's amazing how many people try to convince themselves that the public, JUST the public only, is funding the new terminal and NOT the airlines, tenants, or natural gas revenue.

It’s likely incomprehensible that any money would come from any source other than the beleaguered tax payer...

flyPIT wrote:

"Like any good scout looking for fresh talent the Air Service Development team, is outlining a five-year air service development strategy that will identify additional nonstop routes and carriers to serve Pittsburgh."

Anyone here going to apply?

AaronPGH wrote:

My point was mainly that PGH press seems to pull out their rolodex on topics, flip to their one usual "guy to call about a thing", and not go much further. Boyd is that when the P-G needs an airline quote. Personally, I find it to be a little lazy.

From what I understand, that's basically how it works. You establish yourself as an "expert" on something and then get your name out there to the media and tell them to come to you for quotes. Plus, "aviation consultant" sounds way more credible than "aviation enthusiast."

Runway28L wrote:

Here's some more in-depth good and bad the article left out regarding air service:

- AA cutting BOS this month

I don't know if we need to cry about this one considering how DL has been doubling down on it recently. Even though as far as in flight experience on this route B6 is the best, DL's CRJ are way better than what AA was flying lately. The ERJ-145 I flew when the price was so much cheaper than DL and B6 was like stepping back in time. The plane was still in old Eagle paint scheme and the interior hadn't been updated since the 90s. Plus the A/C broke half way thru the flight and it was boiling on the plane. Meanwhile the CRJ-900s DL flies are all recently updated with colored LED moodlights and everything.

I think AA just didn't care enough to compete, thus why they put the worst product possible to fly it. Good riddance if you ask me.

pitbosflyer wrote:

Runway28L wrote:

Here's some more in-depth good and bad the article left out regarding air service:

- AA cutting BOS this month

I don't know if we need to cry about this one considering how DL has been doubling down on it recently. Even though as far as in flight experience on this route B6 is the best, DL's CRJ are way better than what AA was flying lately. The ERJ-145 I flew when the price was so much cheaper than DL and B6 was like stepping back in time. The plane was still in old Eagle paint scheme and the interior hadn't been updated since the 90s. Plus the A/C broke half way thru the flight and it was boiling on the plane. Meanwhile the CRJ-900s DL flies are all recently updated with colored LED moodlights and everything.

I think AA just didn't care enough to compete, thus why they put the worst product possible to fly it. Good riddance if you ask me.

Very true. At least DL is filling in for the capacity lost. And to be quite honest, it was only a matter of time before AA dropped the route. I expect RDU isn’t very far behind either.

Completely agree on the equipment AA was offering. I flew a B6 E190 on a trip up last August and an AA CRJ2 on the return. The difference wasn’t even close.

This summer I took B6 on the outbound once again. On the return however, I ended up taking AA BOS-PHL-PIT on an E190 the whole way through instead of the nonstop option, simply because it was an E140.

pitbosflyer wrote:

I don't know if we need to cry about this one considering how DL has been doubling down on it recently. Even though as far as in flight experience on this route B6 is the best, DL's CRJ are way better than what AA was flying lately. The ERJ-145 I flew when the price was so much cheaper than DL and B6 was like stepping back in time. The plane was still in old Eagle paint scheme and the interior hadn't been updated since the 90s. Plus the A/C broke half way thru the flight and it was boiling on the plane. Meanwhile the CRJ-900s DL flies are all recently updated with colored LED moodlights and everything.

I think AA just didn't care enough to compete, thus why they put the worst product possible to fly it. Good riddance if you ask me.

That's a funny, but true comment. I flew PIT-BOS-PIT a couple years ago and did the same segment with some co-workers. PIT-BOS was on B6, and it was great! Nice Embraer, PTV's, Coffee, snacks. It was a good experience. Flying home we were on an old US CRJ, and WOW. I felt like I was on a plane from a third world nation. We all kind of looked at each other like, "why did we fly B6 back home".

Cush wrote:

That's a funny, but true comment. I flew PIT-BOS-PIT a couple years ago and did the same segment with some co-workers. PIT-BOS was on B6, and it was great! Nice Embraer, PTV's, Coffee, snacks. It was a good experience. Flying home we were on an old US CRJ, and WOW. I felt like I was on a plane from a third world nation. We all kind of looked at each other like, "why did we fly B6 back home".

I'm glad I'm not the only one that found the comparison pretty insane. Haha. This route was AA's to lose. Business travelers have much better options.

I was curious to see what AA had bookable for PHL-PIT-PHL. AA shows an am E90, afternoon A319, and an evening A319 as well as an am E75 and an evening E75. They show a similar schedule out of PIT, except the morning and afternoon mainline flights are flip-flopped; A319 in the am and E90 in the afternoon. I look at it as the following:

AA showes more mainline flights vs Eagle/Envoy.

Their express flights are at least on 76-seaters rather than the CRJ/ERJ equipment.

That said, it would be nice to see someone come in and give AA a run for their money. Does anyone know how F9 is doing on PHL-CLT? If they can make that work, then I wonder if they or anyone else would consider a similar schedule for PIT-PHL. Nevermind that this is hub-2-hub vs. hub-2-non hub. My point is both are strong AA markets. Given that PHL-CLT is a hub-hub route it would be much harder for F9 to compete against. Yet, there must be a niche that they fill in that route. I would think that there could be a similar niche with PIT-PHL. Maybe not a 4x-daily-on-WN-737s niche, but a niche nonetheless. I know F9's schedule is limited, but suppose NK or Allegiant? I don't foresee WN or DL stepping into the picture here.

F9 likes to schedule things 2 or 3 times a week. There's no way you can make significant inroads on a business-heavy route like that with such low frequencies. If WN couldn't make it work, I doubt any other LCC or ULCC for that matter could either.

steeler83 wrote:

I was curious to see what AA had bookable for PHL-PIT-PHL. AA shows an am E90, afternoon A319, and an evening A319 as well as an am E75 and an evening E75. They show a similar schedule out of PIT, except the morning and afternoon mainline flights are flip-flopped; A319 in the am and E90 in the afternoon. I look at it as the following:

AA showes more mainline flights vs Eagle/Envoy.

Their express flights are at least on 76-seaters rather than the CRJ/ERJ equipment.

That said, it would be nice to see someone come in and give AA a run for their money. Does anyone know how F9 is doing on PHL-CLT? If they can make that work, then I wonder if they or anyone else would consider a similar schedule for PIT-PHL. Nevermind that this is hub-2-hub vs. hub-2-non hub. My point is both are strong AA markets. Given that PHL-CLT is a hub-hub route it would be much harder for F9 to compete against. Yet, there must be a niche that they fill in that route. I would think that there could be a similar niche with PIT-PHL. Maybe not a 4x-daily-on-WN-737s niche, but a niche nonetheless. I know F9's schedule is limited, but suppose NK or Allegiant? I don't foresee WN or DL stepping into the picture here.

They possibly could pull it off since Pittsburgh and Charlotte are about the same size and Pittsburgh only has a couple of flights compared to Charlotte, but given frontiers track record at Pittsburgh I doubt it will ever takeoff and if it does it won't last very long, since it will be a 2 or 3 time weekly flight

There are two main issues going on here:

1. AA has a giant grip on the PIT-PHL market and has for decades going back to the days of US. They have every business traveler secured as well as the employees that shuttle on this route during the weekday, in addition to connecting traffic. Speaking of which, I would personally be thrilled if AA ran a 75L on the route next summer like they did for 2017 to kill some downtime between TATL turns.

2. There is no viable carrier to challenge AA on this route. F9 would likely come in at 2-3x weekly and get crushed. WN won't be adding the route back since both ends are now network spokes for them combined with their history flying this route. NK could try 1x daily, but given how AA drove them off PIT-DFW in about a year leads me to believe this won't work either. UA, DL, and G4 are obviously out of the question.

You also have the folks that won't be willing to spend $300-400 on fares to fly to Philly. They just take I-76 instead and drive for 5 hours.

Another thing to note: PIT-PHL has seen a big decline in passenger numbers over the last several years.

July 2009-June 2010: 326,760 total pax (#2 destination out of PIT)
July 2012-June 2013: 191,870 total pax (#5 destination out of PIT)
July 2015-June 2016: 161,180 total pax (#7 destination out of PIT)
July 2017-June 2018: 157,530 total pax (#10 destination out of PIT)

When WN operated PIT-PHL they did so with 7x daily flights. When they pulled the plug they were down to 3x daily which is still pretty good frequency. I don't see any reason they could not offer the service starting at 2x daily and the numbers Runway28L provided show just how suppressed the market has become with only AA offering high fares. The numbers show it is a huge market that can be stimulated and be increased two-fold.

Runway28L wrote:

July 2009-June 2010: 326,760 total pax (#2 destination out of PIT)
July 2012-June 2013: 191,870 total pax (#5 destination out of PIT)
July 2015-June 2016: 161,180 total pax (#7 destination out of PIT)
July 2017-June 2018: 157,530 total pax (#10 destination out of PIT)

The WTC site is has been rebranded the ‘Pittsburgh Airport Innovation Campus’ and ground was broken today.






Note the right of way for a BRT/LRT line. International Drive also looks to be extended under 10L/28R.


https://blueskypit.com/2018/12/06/innovation-campus-offers-new-runway-to-the-world/

https://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/12438655/officials-break-ground-on-pittsburgh-airport-innovation-campus

https://kdkaradio.radio.com/articles/ground-broken-pittsburgh-airport-innovation-campus

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2018/12/06/Airport-innovation-campus-ready-for-take-off/stories/201812060158

Out of curiosity, anyone see DL scheduling the A220 into PIT in the near future?

flyPIT wrote:

When WN operated PIT-PHL they did so with 7x daily flights. When they pulled the plug they were down to 3x daily which is still pretty good frequency. I don't see any reason they could not offer the service starting at 2x daily and the numbers Runway28L provided show just how suppressed the market has become with only AA offering high fares. The numbers show it is a huge market that can be stimulated and be increased two-fold.

If WN were to ever get serious about building up PIT which has been rumored numerous times in the past, I too see no reason why PHL shouldn't be one of the first routes they would add. But we have yet to see WN show interest in expanding outside of their operational bases from PIT (outside of seasonal, weekend-only CUN and MSY). So until then, things won't change much for this route.

ConcourseZ wrote:

Out of curiosity, anyone see DL scheduling the A220 into PIT in the near future?

Heard that DTW and MSP are the two most likely routes that we will get the A220 on. LGA and JFK are going to stay entirely DL Connection for the foreseeable future.

PIT probably won't get the DL A220 scheduled here regularly until early 2020 at the soonest if I had to guess.

I wonder if the BRT route will be active right at terminal opening? It makes sense to get it in place for the 28X. The bus has to enter somewhere. It could also work as a "look what could be" advertisement to the county.

AaronPGH wrote:

I wonder if the BRT route will be active right at terminal opening? It makes sense to get it in place for the 28X. The bus has to enter somewhere. It could also work as a "look what could be" advertisement to the county.

I doubt it. These are only conceptual plans and unfortunately BRT/LRT would probably be the last piece to go in. I'm not even sure BRT is the proper mode for the airport. When I think of BRT I think of Cleveland's healthline or what Pittsburgh proposes for Oakland. Frequent high density buses every couple minutes. The airport certainly does not need that kind of bus capacity. The West Busway and I-376 improvements should suffice as far as buses are concerned.

Looks like the Steelers have switched back to AA. They are scheduled to be on a B763 for their trip to Oakland on Saturday morning.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA9443

flyPIT wrote:

AaronPGH wrote:

I wonder if the BRT route will be active right at terminal opening? It makes sense to get it in place for the 28X. The bus has to enter somewhere. It could also work as a "look what could be" advertisement to the county.

I doubt it. These are only conceptual plans and unfortunately BRT/LRT would probably be the last piece to go in. I'm not even sure BRT is the proper mode for the airport. When I think of BRT I think of Cleveland's healthline or what Pittsburgh proposes for Oakland. Frequent high density buses every couple minutes. The airport certainly does not need that kind of bus capacity. The West Busway and I-376 improvements should suffice as far as buses are concerned.

Back when the MAGLEV project was in the works, what was the route for that system? If that had a determined route then why not use that for a rail link from downtown to the airport?

steeler83 wrote:

Does anyone know how F9 is doing on PHL-CLT? If they can make that work, then I wonder if they or anyone else would consider a similar schedule for PIT-PHL.

flyPIT wrote:

When WN operated PIT-PHL they did so with 7x daily flights. When they pulled the plug they were down to 3x daily which is still pretty good frequency. I don't see any reason they could not offer the service starting at 2x daily and the numbers Runway28L provided show just how suppressed the market has become with only AA offering high fares. The numbers show it is a huge market that can be stimulated and be increased two-fold.

I've long thought that F9/NK/WN could make PIT-PHL work if done correctly. Ideally it would be 2x daily. But even if it was geared towards weekend travel between PIT & PHL, I think it could work. Why? Tons of college students. But I think this service would need to be properly advertised so that everyone doesn't just jump on the AA bandwagon with matched prices. WN has considerably more brand awareness here than when they were first operating the PHL flight. NK has less, and F9, as we've discussed has minimal. But the service should be marketed extensively to the right audiences. There's so much potential, I wish a carrier would make a go of it.

What about the idea the plane making CVG/CLE > PIT > PHL and back turns?

Runway28L wrote:

Looks like the Steelers have switched back to AA. They are scheduled to be on a B763 for their trip to Oakland on Saturday morning.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA9443

This is probably a one-off, since I don't think their regular charter carrier, Miami Air, could accommodate the Steelers on this West Coast trip with their standard two 737s. Still, I'm surprised they did switch back to AA for this one-off, considering the way they've treated Pittsburgh in general like an afterthought. What I found surprising is that they got a 763 instead of the A332/333 they'd usually get dating back to US days.

ctrabs0114 wrote:

Still, I'm surprised they did switch back to AA for this one-off, considering the way they've treated Pittsburgh in general like an afterthought. What I found surprising is that they got a 763 instead of the A332/333 they'd usually get dating back to US days.

Wasn't it AA and not the Steelers that ended the relationship?

PITexpress wrote:

Wasn't it AA and not the Steelers that ended the relationship?

Correct. AA and some other airlines canceled these contracts as they could make more money with the planes in constant revenue service instead of letting them sit on the ground for 1-3 days.

ConcourseZ wrote:

Out of curiosity, anyone see DL scheduling the A220 into PIT in the near future?

They are going to need some more to show up in the fleet first. They plan on using them on their biggest biz markets, from what they have said. Makes me think we won't see them here for a while. They are replacing alot of the 717 routes.

Cush wrote:

PITexpress wrote:

Wasn't it AA and not the Steelers that ended the relationship?

Correct. AA and some other airlines canceled these contracts as they could make more money with the planes in constant revenue service instead of letting them sit on the ground for 1-3 days.

In fairness... That seems like a pretty good reason to not want to do sports charters. Even if flying NFL teams is flashy. Companies go where the money is. I mean the Patriots (don't kill me lol) had to buy two of their own 767s, because Delta was being too flakey.

(double post)
Delete

Random question for you folks. My wife just did PIT-FLL-PIT on Spirit, and both ways the flight was oversold by 5+ seats. Why didn't Spirit upgauge to the A-320 at least. I mean it seems the demand is there...

Cush wrote:

Random question for you folks. My wife just did PIT-FLL-PIT on Spirit, and both ways the flight was oversold by 5+ seats. Why didn't Spirit upgauge to the A-320 at least. I mean it seems the demand is there...

The only explanation I can think of is that those two flights may have been abnormalities. Perhaps flights on other days of the week have weaker loads and other days have strong loads. Or it could just simply be that there wasn't a spare A320 or A321 available down at FLL.

Here is some data to put things into perspective:

December 2017 LF
NK PIT-FLL 80%
NK FLL-PIT 60%

July 2018 LF
NK PIT-FLL 86%
NK FLL-PIT 88%

So historically speaking, NK typically gets weaker loads to FLL this time of year compared to the summer, hence why an A319 currently operates this flight. This leads me to believe that both of those flights you described as being oversold were just unusually high in demand.

FWIW PIT-FLL runs on an A319 until 6/20/19, then gets upgraded to an A320.

PITexpress wrote:

steeler83 wrote:

Does anyone know how F9 is doing on PHL-CLT? If they can make that work, then I wonder if they or anyone else would consider a similar schedule for PIT-PHL.

flyPIT wrote:

When WN operated PIT-PHL they did so with 7x daily flights. When they pulled the plug they were down to 3x daily which is still pretty good frequency. I don't see any reason they could not offer the service starting at 2x daily and the numbers Runway28L provided show just how suppressed the market has become with only AA offering high fares. The numbers show it is a huge market that can be stimulated and be increased two-fold.

I've long thought that F9/NK/WN could make PIT-PHL work if done correctly. Ideally it would be 2x daily. But even if it was geared towards weekend travel between PIT & PHL, I think it could work. Why? Tons of college students. But I think this service would need to be properly advertised so that everyone doesn't just jump on the AA bandwagon with matched prices. WN has considerably more brand awareness here than when they were first operating the PHL flight. NK has less, and F9, as we've discussed has minimal. But the service should be marketed extensively to the right audiences. There's so much potential, I wish a carrier would make a go of it.

What about the idea the plane making CVG/CLE > PIT > PHL and back turns?

I don't think PIT-PHL will ever see 2 carriers again. Lot's of business travelers that rely on frequencies. AA is 6x daily and another carrier doing 2x daily just wouldn't be competitive.

AaronPGH wrote:

My point was mainly that PGH press seems to pull out their rolodex on topics, flip to their one usual "guy to call about a thing", and not go much further. Boyd is that when the P-G needs an airline quote. Personally, I find it to be a little lazy.

That is what the "media" does for EVERY topic. Why do people in this country have this fascination about the media? They know nothing more (and often times much less) than the average Joe on the street and they exist merely to sell advertisement space. This country wouldn't be as divided today if people would quit reading or listening to the rubbish they put out.

UA is swapping mainline back and forth between IAD and IAH over the next few months:

• From Dec 19th to Jan 7th, IAD has daily A320 service, then from Jan 8th it alternates between the A319 (Mon, Wed, Thu, Fri), A320 (Sat), B737-700 (Tue) and B737-900 (Sun) from Jan 8th until mainline service comes to an end on Feb 14th.
• From Feb 14th to Mar 7th, IAH has 6x weekly A320 service.
• From Mar 8th to Mar 30th, IAD has daily B737-700 service.
• From Mar 31st to Apr 28th, IAH has daily A320 service. From Apr 29th, it downgrades to 6x weekly A319 service until ending on Jun 5th.

ConcourseZ wrote:

AaronPGH wrote:

You have to remember that the press knows even less than he does. Once someone establishes themselves as an expert on a topic, they are the easy go-to for these folks.

So, who would be a credible commercial aviation source?

I do like Brett Snyder, AKA The Cranky Flier. He usually has good insights and practical analyses. And when he's wrong he's the first to admit it.

pmanni1 wrote:

I don't think PIT-PHL will ever see 2 carriers again. Lot's of business travelers that rely on frequencies. AA is 6x daily and another carrier doing 2x daily just wouldn't be competitive.

Its not that simple. AA has suppressed the market so much that the only people left are business travelers who are not paying their own fare. Gone is everyone else. They are driving the expensive turnpike, using Megabus with their multiple stops zig-zagging across the state, or not going at all. If WN or DL would enter PIT-PHL you would see AA ramp up to at least 10 daily mainline flights with lower fares and they would be full, just to keep the competition out. Its probably the most suppressed market in AA's entire global network.

flyPIT wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

I don't think PIT-PHL will ever see 2 carriers again. Lot's of business travelers that rely on frequencies. AA is 6x daily and another carrier doing 2x daily just wouldn't be competitive.

Its not that simple. AA has suppressed the market so much that the only people left are business travelers who are not paying their own fare. Gone is everyone else. They are driving the expensive turnpike, using Megabus with their multiple stops zig-zagging across the state, or not going at all. If WN or DL would enter PIT-PHL you would see AA ramp up to at least 10 daily mainline flights with lower fares and they would be full, just to keep the competition out. Its probably the most suppressed market in AA's entire global network.

History would then repeat itself from years back when WN pulled out after US increased frequencies and dropped fares to the point it wasnt worth it for WN. WN is now mostly hub and spoke with very few spoke to spoke. Maybe DL would try it but would probably have the same end result.

The only way WN would be able to do the PIT to PHL flight is if they cut the flights to BWI. Since most people would just drive from Baltimore to Philadelphia. WN is sadly the only one that would be able to do that flight

Many factors were in play when WN pulled PHL-PIT. To some extent, US drove them out of the market as people have stated. WN bought out FL in 2012 and began to take on more of a "hub & spoke" model, shifting most of its PHL focus down to a beefed-up BWI.

Right now, WN serves more destinations out of PIT than they do out of PHL, but they still only have a token presence at best. They only way I see WN or DL launching this route is if either airline cares to open a focus city which I don't see happening. F9 and NK are mainly P2P fliers, which is why I wondered about them possibly serving that route.

Edit - duplicate post

On the subject of PIT-Flordia, I flew down to Orlando over the weekend (F9 to MCO and G4 from SFB). Both flights were full. I overheard many people expressing shock and confusion that F9 was canceling this service. My flight down to MCO was full and other people mentioned that this flight was "always full." Though as we all know, a full flight doesn't mean it's successful. I suppose the PIT-SAN flight's performance is tied into their PIT-MCO flight. So it made me wonder what the lf's were on the SAN flights.