This is probably a non-story for some. But since I live 10 minutes away from their main factory in Canonsburg, I'm really thrilled about this.

Sarris Candies Opening Store At Pittsburgh International Airport

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/05/ ... l-airport/

It's interesting that they chose PIT as a location for their first retail store rather than somewhere else like Bethel Park, Mt. Lebanon, downtown, etc. Good addition to the Air Mall IMO and a bit of a change from the boring European stores that have been going in recently.

Also, does anyone kind of find it underwhelming that there are only two meal options available in the Landside terminal, that being Buford's and Dunkin Donuts? Could that be a thing addressed by the new terminal design?

FlyPIT now I’m looking jul 3-jul 11. Just as inexpensive as I stated earlier. Playing around with dates, midweek tends to be that cheap even in June whereas a few weekend dates I tested were in the $1700 ballpark. Quite a gap. Wish I knew how to do this systematically rather than slog through it. Foreign carrier websites lay out a fair grid by date delta does not.

ncflyer wrote:

FlyPIT now I’m looking jul 3-jul 11. Just as inexpensive as I stated earlier. Playing around with dates, midweek tends to be that cheap even in June whereas a few weekend dates I tested were in the $1700 ballpark. Quite a gap. Wish I knew how to do this systematically rather than slog through it. Foreign carrier websites lay out a fair grid by date delta does not.

Looks like a good window to travel! I checked a few more dates around your dates and there are some good deals as you said. Its the same over at IND. Both are within a couple hundred dollars with IND being the more expensive on most dates but not all.

Southern Airways Express says an interline agreement will be in place by the end of May with AA, DE, and BA (at BWI). Their flights are also currently bookable on the major travel booking engines.
http://www.theprogressnews.com/tri_county_sunday/passenger-boardings-a-success-story-at-dubois-regional-airport/article_393f8b85-29e0-550f-ad00-5c2f1f3459d0.html

I've started to book up some dummy one week long trips, comparing DL fares from PIT, RDU, IND, DTW, nice assortment of focus cities, focus city wannabes, monopoly hubs. For good measure I've thrown in my hometown CLE to compare a one stop market in roughly the same geography. I really ought to throw in CVG too but too late for today at least. I need to figure out if I can embed an excel graph or table once I'm done. My one week trips are 6/15 to 6/22 through 6/21 to 6/28 and the one week trips in between.

I've always chosen the nonstop option except in the case of CLE obviously, and I've chosen Basic economy if it's available. Unfortunately the Delta website seems to stop searching once I've looked up 30 dummy bookings. So I may keep going at a later date, and that's when I'll add in CVG. Either that or I'll start using my phone and my iPad and other browsers .

It is so damn interesting, at least to me. My one "wish" for the airliners.net forum is that there was more discussion of fares, as it's a big part of the business, and there are probably others out there who are better at researching this than I am.

Obviously the lowest fare doesn't mean it's the lowest yielding flight overall, as we have no idea how many seats are sold at which fare, nor how heavily the flights are booked that I'm trying out, but some trends:

RDU is the most expensive market. Fares are above $1700 5 of 7 days. It pays to serve the fastest growing and most well educated of the cities I'm trying!!!
DTW is second. I thought as a monopoly hub it would be the most expensive, maybe having 3 flights per day knocks down fares a bit, who knows.
CLE incredibly is right up there with DTW and sometimes quite a bit higher. I really thought CLE would be the cheapest market, as it's the one where DL does not have a product that's superior to Icelandair--- all are one stop options. It doesn't appear that DL is choosing to compete on fare against Icelandair even in this market. On Saturday CLE is the most expensive city at $1772. (of note Icelandair doesn't fly Saturdays to CLE).
PIT/IND battle to the cheapest depending on day of week. PIT is the only airfare south of $1000, on Tuesday to Tuesday. On weekends IND is cheaper (but still pricier than during the week), during the week PIT is the cheapest.

ncflyer wrote:

PIT/IND battle to the cheapest depending on day of week. PIT is the only airfare south of $1000, on Tuesday to Tuesday. On weekends IND is cheaper (but still pricier than during the week), during the week PIT is the cheapest.

I found this really interesting as well. As I was booking a flight to a smaller city in eastern Europe from Pittsburgh in June (notoriously difficult btw) I found that Delta was charging $740 for my dates r/t to FRA through CGD, and in "main cabin" nonetheless. On the same dates, their nonstop to CDG was at $1400 r/t. I'm guessing this is some competition with Condor/WOW? Oddly enough, Condor's prices for the r/t same dates to FRA was $1050 (Friday departure, Wednesday return). If Delta was competing, would they try to come in that much lower? They were even beating WOW's prices on the route.

flyPIT wrote:

Southern Airways Express says an interline agreement will be in place by the end of May with AA, DE, and BA (at BWI). Their flights are also currently bookable on the major travel booking engines.
http://www.theprogressnews.com/tri_county_sunday/passenger-boardings-a-success-story-at-dubois-regional-airport/article_393f8b85-29e0-550f-ad00-5c2f1f3459d0.html

I've been wondering about the impact of Southern Airways Express on PIT as far as connecting traffic. Since PIT is acting as a "connecting point" for these small, regional airlines, could they have enough of an impact to affect either regular airline frequency or upgrading aircraft from commuter to mainline (or both). Don't have any data. If anyone has some insight, this would be interesting.

There is another thread on why MCI has always failed as a major hub. Part of the discussion is about MCI's outdated terminal complex; it reminded me of the proposed 1960's TWA terminal at PIT:







In this case however, I think it would have been a good design. Even though it is a "drive to your gate" design, I think it is small enough that the walk between furthest gates would not be far, and the fact that it has separate levels would have given it a more spacious feeling. The architecture reminds me of the Ewa and Diamond Head concourses at HNL.

If anyone remembers what a dump the "West Dock" at the old PIT was, which was built instead of this, wouldn't it have been much nicer to have this built?

I never knew about this one. All of the additions to the old terminal, except the first United addition (which matched the architecture), were functional, only. The eventual TWA wing was certainly scaled down from this oval concept. The TWA wing had 7 - 9 gates?

Imagine the people circling looking for one of those 50 or so inside parking spots? You'd be at more risk of being hit than you are in the lane by the moving walk in the long term lot! (I realize, it's probably not to scale.)

ConcourseZ wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Southern Airways Express says an interline agreement will be in place by the end of May with AA, DE, and BA (at BWI). Their flights are also currently bookable on the major travel booking engines.
http://www.theprogressnews.com/tri_county_sunday/passenger-boardings-a-success-story-at-dubois-regional-airport/article_393f8b85-29e0-550f-ad00-5c2f1f3459d0.html

I've been wondering about the impact of Southern Airways Express on PIT as far as connecting traffic. Since PIT is acting as a "connecting point" for these small, regional airlines, could they have enough of an impact to affect either regular airline frequency or upgrading aircraft from commuter to mainline (or both). Don't have any data. If anyone has some insight, this would be interesting.

Last year Southern averaged 52.5 arriving passengers per day at PIT from all locations, and with Jamestown gone now it’s probably a bit lower. Considering the broad number of destinations they could be connecting to it’s not enough to lead to added capacity. Say 10% of all passengers are go to Orlando. Not only is that only about 5 passengers per day added to Orlando, but those five would be arriving PIT at various times of the day and connecting to various flights.

Certainly it’s better for airlines at PIT to have these connecting passengers than not. But 50 people per day spread across dozens of possible destinations is not something likely to lead to expanded flying.

knope2001....thanks for the insight.

Am I the only one wondering why there has not been a single peep from the ACAA or local leaders about what OneJet's acquisition of Ultimate could mean for future service at PIT? We've seen other cities such as Cincinnati chime in with what they think it could mean for their air service. But it is Pittsburgh that is directly invested financially in OneJet (both publicly and privately), not the other cities.

ConcourseZ wrote:

I never knew about this one. All of the additions to the old terminal, except the first United addition (which matched the architecture), were functional, only. The eventual TWA wing was certainly scaled down from this oval concept. The TWA wing had 7 - 9 gates?

I count 11 gates on the TWA wing initially, including one int'l gate (gate 45). Later they found a way to add a second jetway to the int'l gate to accommodate US's PIT-FRA flight alongside BA. This was gate 45A so I guess you could call it 12 gates before it was all said and done with.

I think stating the additions as functional is being a bit too generous. They could not have been any cheaper.

Here's a diagram from 1991, its last full year. Talk about putting 10 pounds of sh!t in a 5 pound bag.



Hard to think we once had 6 airline clubs. I didn't realize BA had one in the old terminal.

Friarboy wrote:

Imagine the people circling looking for one of those 50 or so inside parking spots? You'd be at more risk of being hit than you are in the lane by the moving walk in the long term lot! (I realize, it's probably not to scale.)

There is a two level garage visible to the left of the photo.

Did anyone notice the parking rates on that diagram? It seems everything has gone up in price since those times, except for airport parking prices! That is rather surprising... I mean, you can get an hour in short term for $1 (old times was $1.50 for 30 mins), and extended is like $8 now and was $6.50 then.

Yay for cheap parking!!

I distinctly remember the Red Carpet Club, Ambassador Club, and BA Club, plus the USAir Clubs, but I don't recall DL ever having a Crown Room here....I do recall seeing one mentioned as opening in January 1993 in promotional material for the new terminal. It was in the pocket guide they gave at the information desk. The DL club would've been right before D76 across from the bathrooms and monitors before D77 and after Rite Aid.....

I was told by a senior DL agent years ago that the Crown Room was shelved for the new terminal by late 1992 because of financial problems.

It's possible DL used the Ambassador Club as a first class lounge for their PITYYZ route that acquired from EA and flown with 757s. The lounge agreement could have lapsed after the old terminal and the clubs closed in October 1992.

USPIT10L wrote:

It's possible DL used the Ambassador Club as a first class lounge for their PITYYZ route that acquired from EA and flown with 757s. The lounge agreement could have lapsed after the old terminal and the clubs closed in October 1992.

Why wouldn't Delta just use their own Crown Room? DL gained the YYZ rights long before Midfield opened, as did the collapse of Eastern.

They never had one at the old terminal and planned one at Midfield before financial cuts caused them to shelve the project....remember the costs at PIT skyrocketed after the new terminal opened.

There was also an Eastern Ionosphere Room in the mezzanine level of the 1952 terminal for a few years in the early 1980s, IINM, that covers all the airline clubs at Greater Pitt. It looks like the Ambassador Club and Crown Room were in the same location--TWA and Delta's ticket counters were right next to each, IINM also. The Ambassador Club was right across from the TWA counter.

USPIT10L wrote:

They never had one at the old terminal and planned one at Midfield before financial cuts caused them to shelve the project....remember the costs at PIT skyrocketed after the new terminal opened.

I'm only looking at the diagram I posted above. "Delta Crown Room", next to the bridge that lead to the west lot. I assume that diagram is correct; I have no first hand knowledge.

I'm basing mine on my own memory and what I've been told about the Ambassador Club here. Plus, I have all the 1991 timetables for Delta in my possession and there is no mention of a Crown Room in any of them. That's why I suggested what I said earlier about an agreement with TWA. I'll check my sources further if needed.

An interesting trip down memory lane. Although I was there several times, and vividly remember my first time in the "new" airport, I was rather young when the old terminal shut down and really can't remember it very well anymore. There are two good videos on YouTube of it; the only thing I remember specifically is the main terminal and all those escalators but I certainly retain a general impression of the cramped and crowded atmosphere in the concourses -- what a nightmare! Any special memories of the Old Greater Pitt, anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZI_u-OpSTQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWW8mbwTfBI

At the end of its life, the old terminal was very cramped, crowded, and just outdated. It was amazing the lengths USAir went to operate and grow the hub in that building. I vividly remember my last connection through there in August 1991. Arrived from MDW at Gate 24 or 26, cannot remember, and left to MCO out of old Gate 4 in the east dock. With the midfield opening in October of that year, they appeared to have stopped most general maintenance on the building. One of those mid afternoon storms rolled through real quick and the roof leaked in many spots. The lower level area from Gates 33-36 down to the baggage claim area, if I recall correctly, smelled like sewer gas.

Regardless, I loved that building, and really hoped they would have restored it to some other use, so part of it could have been preserved historically. It probably was not the best for travelers, but it definitely represented commercial aviation in the 1980's, as airlines expanded rapidly after deregulation.

LBE to continue with plans to widen the runway.
http://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/13628018-74/authority-oks-47k-lighting-cost-for-wider-arnold-palmer-runway

It's almost mid-May and no word on the China charters. Has anyone some information?

ConcourseZ wrote:

It's almost mid-May and no word on the China charters. Has anyone some information?

The airport is currently targeting a July start date, but that's all the info I have been told.

With just over a week before PIT-YUL starts up I decided to compare seating charts with PIT-YYZ for every flight of the first week. Below are the number of seats blocked off on each flight.

PIT-YYZ - - - PIT-YUL
26/27/31/24 - - 29
31/29/27/37 - - 24
34/44/24/33 - - 23
27/33/26/25 - - 26
26/45/40/26 - - 32
32/33/24/24 - - 24
25/30/29/23 - - 25

I also checked a random day in late June:
30/19/23/19 - - 18

Air Canada charges for seat selection and they may play games with blocking off seats to make flights appear more full so I wouldn't consider the above a true reflection of seats purchased to date. But I think a direct comparison can be made with the YYZ flights to see how YUL is doing, and based on that YUL seems to be doing pretty well. Only a few fewer seats blocked off on average. One way fares seem to be ~$100-150 less o/w. Not too shabby considering the flight has not had a chance to develop and with only 1x daily it is not completely ideal for business travel.

Back on the same UA SF flight again. Three seats available total...all middle econ+, so may actually be a fully sold out fight. O_o

DL 2333, DEN - LGA diverted to PIT today. Now outbound to LGA. Were there diversions because of E. Coast storms?

Some strong growth for Southern at DUJ:
https://gantdaily.com/2018/05/11/dubois-regional-airport-sees-major-increases-in-passengers-in-march/



Some crappy pics of QR Cargo. They do a crew change at PIT.

Do my eyes deceive me or am I looking at a UPS MD11 in that last image there?

On the subject of the old PIT terminal, I have some vivid memories of that old building. I distinctly remember meeting my grandparents as they got off the plane at DL's old gate 49 after a trip to Arizona (c1989). The year before that, they flew out on Continental. I remember watching them walk up the ramp to the plane. Then my mom and I left the terminal and went to the observation area overlooking the west dock and looking at the CO DC-9 that my grandparents had just boarded. I miss those days.

steeler83 wrote:

Do my eyes deceive me or am I looking at a UPS MD11 in that last image there?

On the subject of the old PIT terminal, I have some vivid memories of that old building. I distinctly remember meeting my grandparents as they got off the plane at DL's old gate 49 after a trip to Arizona (c1989). The year before that, they flew out on Continental. I remember watching them walk up the ramp to the plane. Then my mom and I left the terminal and went to the observation area overlooking the west dock and looking at the CO DC-9 that my grandparents had just boarded. I miss those days.

The MD-11 replaced the two daily SDF flights (A300 and 757) a few weeks ago. It arrives around 7AM, at least that is when I have seen it come in.

Discussed in here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1393953

Looking at google flights, PIT-EWR on UA seems to bump from 7x to 9x daily starting in October. One of which is mainline on 737-7.

AaronPGH wrote:

Discussed in here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1393953

Looking at google flights, PIT-EWR on UA seems to bump from 7x to 9x daily starting in October. One of which is mainline on 737-7.

The two extra frequencies are being operated by Republic on E170/175 equipment. The B73G addition was placed in the schedule this past winter.

If UA does indeed modify its strategies at both EWR and IAD, I imagine we will see more mainline added to EWR and hopefully IAD too (UA is currently operating 1x daily B739 on IAD-PIT as UA1178).

Here's some classic CLE, CAK & PIT....don't know what is what, however I do see the old obs decks @ PIT & CLE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVVCL-iy4dI

727LOVER wrote:

Here's some classic CLE, CAK & PIT....don't know what is what, however I do see the old obs decks @ PIT & CLE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVVCL-iy4dI

Very nice. Thanks for posting!

midway7 wrote:

727LOVER wrote:

Here's some classic CLE, CAK & PIT....don't know what is what, however I do see the old obs decks @ PIT & CLE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVVCL-iy4dI

Very nice. Thanks for posting!

Thanx...here's some more

1952 PIT visit with grandma:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/oT2-ICIYH ... autoplay=1

1985:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/3ZI_u-OpS ... autoplay=1

1988:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/jWW8mbwTf ... autoplay=1

1-minute history:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/KVw44nGf3 ... autoplay=1

Final passengers into old terminal:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/iSJpMSis6 ... autoplay=1




I haven't read the whole thread, so they are building a new landside terinal? Is where the E concourse was?
https://www.youtube.com/embed/2iH_xpPqI ... autoplay=1

727LOVER wrote:

I haven't read the whole thread, so they are building a new landside terinal? Is where the E concourse was?
https://www.youtube.com/embed/2iH_xpPqI ... autoplay=1

Yes, going in between the employee lot (former Concourse E apron) and the west ends of Concourse C and D.

It's part of the new master plan where several other things are being done such as shortening Concourse A and B, completely redoing the lower level of Concourse C, and restructuring the entryway roads leading into the airport.

Here's the UA increase in domestic EWR service which includes PIT.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -oct-2018/

Looks like G4 will be axing both PIT-AUS/MSY after mid-August. I'm surprised by both these cuts, as it leaves AUS unserved and MSY with only 1x weekly flight from WN. By comparison, CVG will have 3 airlines operating to AUS.

Regarding MSY, here is some PDEW data shared by NolaMD88fan in the MSY thread:

"1. Tucson (51 pax - 30.8% growth)
2. Raleigh/Durham (248 pax - 29.2% growth)
3. Pittsburgh (215 pax - 25.7% growth)
4. Columbus, OH (158 pax - 19.7% growth)
5. Charleston, SC (92 pax - 19.5% growth)
6. Indianapolis (161 pax - 19.3% growth)
7. Reno (56 pax - 19.1% growth)
8. Cincinnati (144 pax - 19% growth)
9. Miami (1,005 pax - 18.7% growth)
10. Richmond (114 pax - 17.5% growth)"

flyPIT wrote:

Looks like G4 will be axing both PIT-AUS/MSY after mid-August. I'm surprised by both these cuts, as it leaves AUS unserved and MSY with only 1x weekly flight from WN. By comparison, CVG will have 3 airlines operating to AUS.

Regarding MSY, here is some PDEW data shared by NolaMD88fan in the MSY thread:

"1. Tucson (51 pax - 30.8% growth)
2. Raleigh/Durham (248 pax - 29.2% growth)
3. Pittsburgh (215 pax - 25.7% growth)
4. Columbus, OH (158 pax - 19.7% growth)
5. Charleston, SC (92 pax - 19.5% growth)
6. Indianapolis (161 pax - 19.3% growth)
7. Reno (56 pax - 19.1% growth)
8. Cincinnati (144 pax - 19% growth)
9. Miami (1,005 pax - 18.7% growth)
10. Richmond (114 pax - 17.5% growth)"

That is a surprise to see, especially AUS, MSY not so much. An even bigger surprise is that CHS and VPS stay through November, SRQ stays year round and SJU reappears in the fall schedule. Cant say I saw any of these coming except for MSY.

Flaps wrote:

. An even bigger surprise is that CHS and VPS stay through November, SRQ stays year round and SJU reappears in the fall schedule. Cant say I saw any of these coming except for MSY.

I didn't notice the return of SJU, so that's good to see. I think SRQ was announced as year round.


Perhaps WN can add to their MSY schedule but I'm not holding my breath. While all of WN's legacy competition has been adding seats here, WN is stuck in neutral at PIT except for some incremental growth to BNA and yet another 1x weekly flight to CUN.

CVG with 3 airlines to AUS makes no sense. Anyone have pax data for that city pair?

flyPIT wrote:

Perhaps WN can add to their MSY schedule but I'm not holding my breath. While all of WN's legacy competition has been adding seats here, WN is stuck in neutral at PIT except for some incremental growth to BNA and yet another 1x weekly flight to CUN.

It seems as though WN as a whole is really not doing much of anything on the entire East Coast/Mid-Atlantic, until grabbing those slots at LGA and DCA from AS which was by circumstance.

Most of their focus lately has been West Coast, Caribbean, and soon Hawaii.

flyPIT wrote:

Flaps wrote:

. An even bigger surprise is that CHS and VPS stay through November, SRQ stays year round and SJU reappears in the fall schedule. Cant say I saw any of these coming except for MSY.

I didn't notice the return of SJU, so that's good to see. I think SRQ was announced as year round.


Perhaps WN can add to their MSY schedule but I'm not holding my breath. While all of WN's legacy competition has been adding seats here, WN is stuck in neutral at PIT except for some incremental growth to BNA and yet another 1x weekly flight to CUN.

It would be a surprise to me if MSY-PIT were permanently dropped. It had the highest LF of all of their MSY routes. Maybe they are just shuffling things around in the schedule. If WN doesn't go daily on the route, I could definitely see NK adding it 3/4 weekly, either of which I'd prefer to G4's 2 weekly service. At well over 100 PDEW (120 in Q2) someone will fly it.

ConcourseZ wrote:

CVG with 3 airlines to AUS makes no sense. Anyone have pax data for that city pair?

The PDEW is 70-88 passengers a day, however, that data is before DL started the route, so that number will likely rise. All three carriers have focus cities or hubs in Cincinnati and Austin, plus it does help that DL and F9 run connections through CVG. G4's loads for all of 2017 were 92% both ways, so it is certainly a strong preforming route.

msycajun wrote:

It would be a surprise to me if MSY-PIT were permanently dropped. It had the highest LF of all of their MSY routes. Maybe they are just shuffling things around in the schedule. If WN doesn't go daily on the route, I could definitely see NK adding it 3/4 weekly, either of which I'd prefer to G4's 2 weekly service. At well over 100 PDEW (120 in Q2) someone will fly it.

Exactly.... As soon as G4 drops the route, NK will add it. It won't go unserved that's for sure.

For clarification...those numbers I posted were total average daily pax for the year. Sorry for any confusion. It calculates to 108 PDEW on average for PIT-MSY in 2017. For the first two months of 2018, the load factor was 74.8% for the G4 flight. It was the second highest load factor for G4 at MSY behind the CVG route. For comparison, WN had a load factor of 69.6% over the same period of time.

Honestly, G4 has been a pretty big bust at MSY. NK has won the battle of ULCC dominance. In fact, I agree that we'll probably see NK add PIT-MSY. If they are flying ACY-MSY, they can easily fly PIT-MSY 3 to 4x weekly like our CLE and MSP flights.

Has WW permanently downgraded PIT from the A321 to the A320neo? The last 5 flights have been on the 320neo according to FR24 and I also haven't seen the A321 here in about a month.

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/WW147

I am working today's flight as well as Friday's so I'm curious to see how many people come off both flights. After all, there should be good LFs with the summer season now underway for TATL travel.