gunsontheroof wrote:

dc10lover wrote:

Wenatchee - Seattle has 4 flights now, 3 on Saturday. Still no Government money for flights to San Francisco. The city / private investors should use their own money.

I've never flown out of EAT, but I've picked up/dropped of a rental car there a few times and I was the only non-employee in the airport on both occasions. I can't imagine that it can support anything beyond the AS connection-oriented flights to SEA.

Maybe PDX? Obviously not in the near future, though, given that they're dropping PSC/BLI-PDX, which are substantially larger markets than EAT is...

gunsontheroof wrote:

dc10lover wrote:

Wenatchee - Seattle has 4 flights now, 3 on Saturday. Still no Government money for flights to San Francisco. The city / private investors should use their own money.

I've never flown out of EAT, but I've picked up/dropped of a rental car there a few times and I was the only non-employee in the airport on both occasions. I can't imagine that it can support anything beyond the AS connection-oriented flights to SEA

Well that is a pretty poor assessment of a locations potential by how many people are hanging out at the airport lol.

FA9295 wrote:

gunsontheroof wrote:

dc10lover wrote:

Wenatchee - Seattle has 4 flights now, 3 on Saturday. Still no Government money for flights to San Francisco. The city / private investors should use their own money.

I've never flown out of EAT, but I've picked up/dropped of a rental car there a few times and I was the only non-employee in the airport on both occasions. I can't imagine that it can support anything beyond the AS connection-oriented flights to SEA.

Maybe PDX? Obviously not in the near future, though, given that they're dropping PSC/BLI-PDX, which are substantially larger markets than EAT is...

Yeah, if PSC or BLI can't hold down service to PDX, EAT isn't going to either. These seem like strategic cuts in the AS network (low yields, freeing up aircraft), but I doubt EAT can support an additional connection-oriented flight aside from their current SEA service. MWH isn't terribly far away and it's struggled to sustain any level of service for years.

The outbound journey for MT got covered in the Manchester paper. There is one intriguing quote:

"we have seen 43 per cent of bookings for Seattle have a feeder destination at either end with one of our partner airlines, with the most popular including Portland, Salt Lake City and Honolulu."

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/thomas-cook-flight-manchester-seattle-14714781

David_itl wrote:

The outbound journey for MT got covered in the Manchester paper. There is one intriguing quote:

"we have seen 43 per cent of bookings for Seattle have a feeder destination at either end with one of our partner airlines, with the most popular including Portland, Salt Lake City and Honolulu."

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/thomas-cook-flight-manchester-seattle-14714781

Great to see yet another international airline commencing service to SEA! Next is Cologne in June (another summer).

wedgetail737 wrote:

David_itl wrote:

Great to see yet another international airline commencing service to SEA! Next is Cologne in June (another summer).

With Eurowings winding down Cologne long-haul ops, I'm sure this is the last summer for it.

717atOGG wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

With Eurowings winding down Cologne long-haul ops, I'm sure this is the last summer for it.

It could possibly switch to DUS for S19, with an announcement likely to be in the fall if it will happen. Nothing is certain though, given how far out it is and no indication on how good or bad the flight's doing.
Source: https://www.fvw.com/news/airport-expans ... 3252/11245

I hope they come back next year out of DUS.

Posted essentially same thing on F9 thread...especially focusing on G4. F9 has better brand recognition in GEG anyway and should do fine.

Another thing to keep in mind - not sure there's a lot of added cost to F9's GEG addition. The outfit that handles ground services (CS & below wing) also handles AA (below wing) now.

717atOGG wrote:

F9 just announced GEG-LAS, 2x weekly on A320, starting August 13. I guess F9 will be flying out of GEG year-round after all. Surprisingly, G4 doesn't fly this route, only WN, and LAS has been one of the more consistent stations in terms of keeping new F9 routes, so I expect that they'll do well.

717atOGG wrote:

F9 just announced GEG-LAS, 2x weekly on A320, starting August 13. I guess F9 will be flying out of GEG year-round after all. Surprisingly, G4 doesn't fly this route, only WN, and LAS has been one of the more consistent stations in terms of keeping new F9 routes, so I expect that they'll do well.

Wonder if this affects Allegiant Air Pasco - Las Vegas service.

717atOGG wrote:

Today is the day for the inaugural DL SEA-IAD/MCI flights. IAD is on a redeye 738 and MCI is on a E7W that departs SEA in the late afternoon. (IND will start on June 18) I wouldn't expect many festivities, but it's still great to see DL filling in the gaps of its route network from SEA!

Why hasn't DL brought back SEA-DFW nonstop service yet? DL used to serve DFW nonstop from SEA back when it had a hub at DFW, and DFW is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA.

Other top destinations traveled to from SEA that DL doesn't serve nonstop from SEA include ABQ, CLE, IAH, PHL, RNO, SAT, STL, and TPA.

There is a lot of O&D demand to DFW, IAH, and PHL from SEA. DL does need to bring back SEA-DFW nonstop service, and DL also needs to add nonstop service to IAH, PHL, and other destinations out of SEA to remain competitive in the SEA market.

jplatts wrote:

717atOGG wrote:

Today is the day for the inaugural DL SEA-IAD/MCI flights. IAD is on a redeye 738 and MCI is on a E7W that departs SEA in the late afternoon. (IND will start on June 18) I wouldn't expect many festivities, but it's still great to see DL filling in the gaps of its route network from SEA!

Why hasn't DL brought back SEA-DFW nonstop service yet? DL used to serve DFW nonstop from SEA back when it had a hub at DFW, and DFW is one of the top destinations traveled to from SEA.

Other top destinations traveled to from SEA that DL doesn't serve nonstop from SEA include ABQ, CLE, IAH, PHL, RNO, SAT, STL, and TPA.

There is a lot of O&D demand to DFW, IAH, and PHL from SEA. DL does need to bring back SEA-DFW nonstop service, and DL also needs to add nonstop service to IAH, PHL, and other destinations out of SEA to remain competitive in the SEA market.

I am a little surprised as well, especially in light of the fact that they are opening 3 new routes. I would have said that it has to do with the lack of gate space at SEA, which is still at a premium. I'm sure DL has had to do the gate shuffle just for these flights.

DL is increasingly having to use more bus gates for domestic operations. SEA terminal is extremely crowded now, and a large portion of A concourse has operating gates with zero seating. I think it’ll be a couple of unpleasant years at SEA until the POS gets projects wrapped up (NorthStar and IAF) and works out a solution for additional gates (my guess is at least 20-35 needed).

I know individual car trips to the airport are discouraged in SEA, but the roadway is woefully inadequate for an airport the size of SEA, and even the master plan doesn’t have a great solution to improve it.

https://www.portseattle.org/plans/susta ... -plan-samp

Prost wrote:

DL is increasingly having to use more bus gates for domestic operations. SEA terminal is extremely crowded now, and a large portion of A concourse has operating gates with zero seating.

Which gates are those? Towards the end?

A6-10. They are building the necessary airside facilities for the IAF. You basically have a wall from the food eateries and the new Food Hall being built all the way until the end of the concourse. A1-A5 are normal, and A11-14 are okay. There is remote boarding at the new A20 now.

717atOGG wrote:

Prost wrote:

DL is increasingly having to use more bus gates for domestic operations. SEA terminal is extremely crowded now, and a large portion of A concourse has operating gates with zero seating. I think it’ll be a couple of unpleasant years at SEA until the POS gets projects wrapped up (NorthStar and IAF) and works out a solution for additional gates (my guess is at least 20-35 needed).

I know individual car trips to the airport are discouraged in SEA, but the roadway is woefully inadequate for an airport the size of SEA, and even the master plan doesn’t have a great solution to improve it.

https://www.portseattle.org/plans/susta ... -plan-samp

Wow, I haven't heard that A is that crowded now, which surprises me since it's arguably the most spacious concourse at SEA. As I've said before, a few "soft" updates such as skylights would go a long way in the crowded areas, to make it feel more open. I'm flying out of SEA a week from Saturday on WN and I typically remember their gate area being packed in the morning, so I'll try to take some pictures just to show how bad the overcrowding is.

Suggestion if you are flying WN and departing Saturday - don't check a bag if at all possible. Saturday is the busiest cruise ship arrival/departure day so the airport is a zoo in general and because of WN's bags fly free policy, a great number of those cruise passengers use WN and check bags. It's quite common for the line to check bags on WN to snake all the way around from ticketing into the esplanade area. I volunteer at SEA and stopped doing Saturdays because it's like herding cattle over there

Prost wrote:

DL is increasingly having to use more bus gates for domestic operations. SEA terminal is extremely crowded now, and a large portion of A concourse has operating gates with zero seating. I think it’ll be a couple of unpleasant years at SEA until the POS gets projects wrapped up (NorthStar and IAF) and works out a solution for additional gates (my guess is at least 20-35 needed).

Not just DL. AA, AS, and QX have started turning more flights at Cargo 5 hardstands. We had 2 or 3 Q400 turns there last night with an occasional E175. Our fallbacks are the S Sat and A12 for the late night bank (usually with OO jets)

Isn't the Port building a bus terminal?

gunsontheroof wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

gunsontheroof wrote:

I've never flown out of EAT, but I've picked up/dropped of a rental car there a few times and I was the only non-employee in the airport on both occasions. I can't imagine that it can support anything beyond the AS connection-oriented flights to SEA.

Maybe PDX? Obviously not in the near future, though, given that they're dropping PSC/BLI-PDX, which are substantially larger markets than EAT is...

Yeah, if PSC or BLI can't hold down service to PDX, EAT isn't going to either. These seem like strategic cuts in the AS network (low yields, freeing up aircraft), but I doubt EAT can support an additional connection-oriented flight aside from their current SEA service. MWH isn't terribly far away and it's struggled to sustain any level of service for years.

I think it is silly for people in Moses Lake to drive to Wenatchee and fly out when they can fly out of Pasco & Spokane which both airports have way more service than Wenatchee.

So recently, I accidentally came across this source: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ce-in-s13/

Which mentions that United once had a summer seasonal CLE-SEA route back in 2013. Obviously, I know that United once had a substantial hub operation there, but does anyone know when this route had ended...? According to the source, the flight lasted from June 6, 2013 to August 26, 2013, but did this route ever operate again for the 2014 and 2015 summer seasons as well?

Is there enough demand for Spokane - Houston service on United?

dc10lover wrote:

Is there enough demand for Spokane - Houston service on United?

WN is still expanding its domestic operation at HOU, and WN could add nonstop service to HOU from GEG if there is enough demand. WN also would be able to connect passengers to New Orleans, Florida, and international destinations from GEG through HOU if it added GEG-HOU nonstop service.

AS is starting (actually, re-starting) service between GEG and SAN on Oct 1; a daily EMJ will serve the route which is on the AS online schedules.

The interesting facet of this new service is that there has been no announcement of the route by Alaska. The route magically appeared on the AS schedules in the last day or so.
AS has served this route in the past, the last time was 2008 when AS left the market shortly before XE - also in the market and undoubtedly the reason AS was there - closed up shop for good.

WN has sort of served the market a bit in the last year and can't seem to make up their mind if they want to serve it or not. It appears to me that the AS EMJ is a much better a/c for the route than a WN 737 anyway. The traffic is there for a year-round nonstop r/t so I expect this time, the route will remain for a long time!

bb

SANFan wrote:

AS is starting (actually, re-starting) service between GEG and SAN on Oct 1; a daily EMJ will serve the route which is on the AS online schedules.

The interesting facet of this new service is that there has been no announcement of the route by Alaska. The route magically appeared on the AS schedules in the last day or so.
AS has served this route in the past, the last time was 2008 when AS left the market shortly before XE - also in the market and undoubtedly the reason AS was there - closed up shop for good.

WN has sort of served the market a bit in the last year and can't seem to make up their mind if they want to serve it or not. It appears to me that the AS EMJ is a much better a/c for the route than a WN 737 anyway. The traffic is there for a year-round nonstop r/t so I expect this time, the route will remain for a long time!

bb

I think SAN has more connection opportunities than the last time AS flew the route. GEG will be more-or-less an O&D market...not so many connections, but I could be surprised. It might a good mileage connection to/from SEA.

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think SAN has more connection opportunities than the last time AS flew the route. GEG will be more-or-less an O&D market...not so many connections, but I could be surprised. It might a good mileage connection to/from SEA.

There would be connections to Cabo for sure, and prolly PVR. Maybe a HI destination but probably wouldn't happen; too many options thru PDX and SEA.

But on another thread I just reported that the SAN-GEG O&D pax stats (according to DOT) for 2017 averaged 130 PDEW! For a route to be flown with a 76-seat aircraft, that's a very healthy amount of traffic!

I feel the route is overdue and will do just fine. It has similar traffic to SAN-BOI which has been served for a few years now.

bb

SANFan wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think SAN has more connection opportunities than the last time AS flew the route. GEG will be more-or-less an O&D market...not so many connections, but I could be surprised. It might a good mileage connection to/from SEA.

There would be connections to Cabo for sure, and prolly PVR. Maybe a HI destination but probably wouldn't happen; too many options thru PDX and SEA.

But on another thread I just reported that the SAN-GEG O&D pax stats (according to DOT) for 2017 averaged 130 PDEW! For a route to be flown with a 76-seat aircraft, that's a very healthy amount of traffic!

I feel the route is overdue and will do just fine. It has similar traffic to SAN-BOI which has been served for a few years now.

bb

I think one more thing that might help the SEA-GEG is today's economic environment. It is much better today than it was back when AS served the market with CRJ-700's.

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think one more thing that might help the SAN-GEG is today's economic environment. It is much better today than it was back when AS served the market with CRJ-700's.

Absolutely. Also, in 10 years the traffic has certainly increased to the level that it is today -- 130 PDEW average in 2017!

Lastly, AS was competing with XE in 2007. Today, prolly no competition altho who knows what WN (or F9?) might do along those lines? But with significantly larger pax numbers, 2 cx might not be fatal either.

bb

717atOGG wrote:

717atOGG wrote:

DL is resuming SEA-KIX on a 763 in 2019 at the expense of SEA-HKG.

Source:
https://news.delta.com/delta-add-seattl ... n-air-2019

The last HKG flight is on October 4. I think this opens up a lot of possibilities, either MF going daily to SZX, CX or HX starting HKG, or CZ starting CAN.

All three could happen at one time. Not all at one time in terms of timing, but three situations could happen to/from SEA.

717atOGG wrote:

Well this is disappointing...
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com ... le-flight/
DY is apparently going seasonal on their SEA-LGW flight. While winter demand does go down a lot in SEA, this certainly isn't a good sign for the relatively new route.

I can't say that I'm surprised. There is already quite a few seat year-round with 2X BA SEA-LHR on most days of the week and Virgin 1X SEA-LHR. The SEA-LGW is probably most effective during the peak period when all the Alaska cruises are in town. Yes...SEA is a VERY seasonal destination and quite a few airlines do seasonals.

DY (DI) was offering flights to book through April, and one of my colleagues bought a flight for next February. She got a rebooking notice this past weekend, departing from LAX with no accommodation to get to/from there. It’s unfortunate to see them go seasonal, I have really enjoyed that flight (especially at the price).

Sun Country is flying SEA-MCO today as SY8694: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SCX8694

Does anyone know if this is a charter flight or a rescue flight of some sort...? The particular aircraft that is being used here is N819SY, a Boeing 737-800.

717atOGG wrote:

I was able to finally get MF’s stats for SEA, since they’ve recently been posted as an option to look up for on the BTS website. Their loads aren’t stellar, but the weak months from 2016, namely September and November have improved somewhat in 2017 which is a good sign, and with the heavy subsidies typically given to Chinese carriers, the flight will most likely stick around. *knock on wood*
Sep. 2016 40%
Oct. 65%
Nov. 43%
Dec. 73%
Jan. 2017 58%
Feb. 60%
Mar. 62%
Apr. 42%
May 86%
Jun. 78%
Jul. 63%
Aug. 76%
Sep. 79%
Oct. 68%
Nov. 60%
Dec. 76%

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of advertising for this service. However, could the demise of DL's SEA-HKG service help MF's numbers?

The Federal Government's "Small Community Air Service Development Program" has just released it's grant awards for this year, and it looks like Washington may have scored some possible new routes down the road. Nothing is confirmed yet, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

Possible new route developments:

- Alaska Airlines: Seattle to Tulsa, Oklahoma service.

"The funding will be used for a revenue guarantee and marketing for new nonstop service to Seattle, WA, using Alaska Airlines. The community states that its air service has suffered in recent years, resulting in its downgrading to a small hub airport. It states that there is a strong local demand for service to the Pacific Northwest, and that the service will provide attractive connections to points such as Portland, OR and San Francisco, CA."

- Grant reward: $750,000

- United Airlines: Wenatchee to San Francisco, California service.

"The funding will be used for a revenue guarantee, marketing, and fee waivers for new non-stop service to San Francisco, CA, using SkyWest Airlines. The community states that its only current service is to Seattle, WA, and that the need to connect at Seattle limits Wenatchee’s growth potential. The community also states that it has an expanding tech sector, and that the proposed service will thus serve business interests as well as its traditional tourism market."

- Grant reward: $750,000

Source: https://cms.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files ... r-2017.pdf

717atOGG wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

The Federal Government's "Small Community Air Service Development Program" has just released it's grant awards for this year, and it looks like Washington may have scored some possible new routes down the road. Nothing is confirmed yet, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

Possible new route developments:

- Alaska Airlines: Seattle to Tulsa, Oklahoma service.

"The funding will be used for a revenue guarantee and marketing for new nonstop service to Seattle, WA, using Alaska Airlines. The community states that its air service has suffered in recent years, resulting in its downgrading to a small hub airport. It states that there is a strong local demand for service to the Pacific Northwest, and that the service will provide attractive connections to points such as Portland, OR and San Francisco, CA."

- Grant reward: $750,000

- United Airlines: Wenatchee to San Francisco, California service.

"The funding will be used for a revenue guarantee, marketing, and fee waivers for new non-stop service to San Francisco, CA, using SkyWest Airlines. The community states that its only current service is to Seattle, WA, and that the need to connect at Seattle limits Wenatchee’s growth potential. The community also states that it has an expanding tech sector, and that the proposed service will thus serve business interests as well as its traditional tourism market."

- Grant reward: $750,000

Source: https://cms.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files ... r-2017.pdf

EAT-SFO makes sense and I could see UA putting a daily CRJ on the route, but I think that SEA-TUL is a bit odd. I would have thought that getting SFO or LAX
to TUL on legacy airlines would be a bigger priority, and that on the SEA side, DSM and COS year-round would come first. If someone were to jump on SEA-TUL though I'd think that it'd be AS with a E175.

Doesn’t AA fly LAX-TUL? The used to at least.

I agree that EAT can support out of state flights if they do a good enough job promoting the vast tourism opportunities in the area.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business-qui ... 94f66.html

Here's a media release about the proposed SEA-TUL route.

Looks like SEA-KIX resumes April 1st, as reported on Airlineroutes/the HKG cutting thread.