jworks158
Posts: 112
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:30 pm

So it looks like BOS will be tied for the first A220 Destination in the USA!
Delta announced today that the first A220 routes will be bookable starting tomorrow.
https://news.delta.com/delta-s-new-a220 ... uary-debut

Flights start January 31st 2019 From the LGA base to both BOS, and DFW!
Traveled on..
(A359,A343,A319/320/321)(B744/B748,B762,B752,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JBU,UAL(UCA, ASQ, CHQ, LOF),AAL(EGF,AWI,LOF,PDT) ,DAL(COM),TRS,SWA,LH,AFR,AZA,VX,COA
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
jspams20
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:57 pm

Why don't they depart planes from 4L? Does it inhibits the ability to cross behind to 9 and 4R? I also noticed that they were landing flights on 4L (I saw a DL A321 and a B6 A320 landing while I was waiting for my UA flight to ORD.
 
33lspotter
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:08 pm

jspams20 wrote:
Why don't they depart planes from 4L? Does it inhibits the ability to cross behind to 9 and 4R? I also noticed that they were landing flights on 4L (I saw a DL A321 and a B6 A320 landing while I was waiting for my UA flight to ORD.



I think props can depart from 4L but not jets. The explanation I heard was that the power settings are higher since the runway is shorter (8000 vs 10000) ergo more noise over a densely populated area but I’m not sure that I buy that insofar as 9 is even shorter and 747s take off of it often heading over Winthrop which itself is more densely populated. I get not sending the Whale or Asia 787s off of an 8000 footer but I don’t think noise would be too much of a problem with anything up to a BA 744.
Last edited by 33lspotter on Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PVDspotting
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:12 pm

jspams20 wrote:
Why don't they depart planes from 4L? Does it inhibits the ability to cross behind to 9 and 4R? I also noticed that they were landing flights on 4L (I saw a DL A321 and a B6 A320 landing while I was waiting for my UA flight to ORD.

I've seen dash 8's and Cape Air's depart on 4L but not jets. In good weather 4L arrivals are commonly used by smaller planes, but I've seen 737 and A320s land as well. I believe 4L is a non precision approach.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:15 pm

jworks158 wrote:
So it looks like BOS will be tied for the first A220 Destination in the USA!
Delta announced today that the first A220 routes will be bookable starting tomorrow.
https://news.delta.com/delta-s-new-a220 ... uary-debut

Flights start January 31st 2019 From the LGA base to both BOS, and DFW!


I'm not surprised to see the c-series in Boston, but slightly surprised to see it so soon. Longer term, I suspect that it will be a frequent present on the route from BOS. Right size, right economics for many of the routes.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:33 pm

PVDspotting wrote:
jspams20 wrote:
Why don't they depart planes from 4L? Does it inhibits the ability to cross behind to 9 and 4R? I also noticed that they were landing flights on 4L (I saw a DL A321 and a B6 A320 landing while I was waiting for my UA flight to ORD.

I've seen dash 8's and Cape Air's depart on 4L but not jets. In good weather 4L arrivals are commonly used by smaller planes, but I've seen 737 and A320s land as well. I believe 4L is a non precision approach.


a whopping 2 departures in 2018 on 4L for Jets and 11 arrivals on 22R, below are the massport stats for JET usage of runways, this does not include the likes of 9K etc. I wonder how much 14/32 is being used by the props if at all. because the only direction they are used by jets is 32 arrivals and it's about 1% of overall jet usage.

http://www.massport.com/media/2971/sept ... or-web.pdf

I really wish Massport gave us the numbers in totality, but hey, that's what we got :(
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Victorville
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:34 pm

jspams20 wrote:
Why don't they depart planes from 4L? Does it inhibits the ability to cross behind to 9 and 4R? I also noticed that they were landing flights on 4L (I saw a DL A321 and a B6 A320 landing while I was waiting for my UA flight to ORD.


They will only depart props from 4L, and will only land props on 22R. It is due to state regulation 740 CMR 24.05(10a)

Takeoffs from Runway 4L shall be limited to aircraft with a takeoff noise emission
level of 73 dBA or less and landings on Runway 22R shall be limited to aircraft with a landing
specified noise emission level 78 dBA or less
 
FGITD
Posts: 325
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:45 pm

Jouhou wrote:

Oh please tell me the airport workers are paid more than that, It's Boston!


most of the folks you see working the ramp or check in at terminal E fall in that range. Those directly employed by the airlines tend to be a little higher, depending on seniority of course.

Huge turnover problems. Ramp work can be very exerting, in all manner of weather, and a lot of them end up making less than the others bussing tables inside the terminal.
 
33lspotter
Posts: 454
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:49 pm

Victorville wrote:
They will only depart props from 4L, and will only land props on 22R. It is due to state regulation 740 CMR 24.05(10a)
specified noise emission level 78 dBA or less


Thanks for that. Interestingly enough, I did land on 22R on a WN 737 last winter. I was quite confused when we floated over the threshold and only realized which runway we were on about a second before touchdown. I listened to the LiveATC archives from that day (12/30/17) and we were initially on for 22L but then Tower asked us to land 22R. Not sure if that required "executive director" approval but that's what happened.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:17 am

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GjTFllOr0asXLH5v5AupRCFnWokTT9af/view?usp=sharing

T-100 International for Boston, tried to post as image but would not allow. Data for April 18 only. Samples of results

The Good:

CX - 86%
Level - 91%
AF - 90%
DL - CDG - 87%
LH - FRA 86%
WW-91%
DI-88%
TP-88%
EK-86%

The Bad
HU-PVG 69%
DL-LHR 69%
VS-67%
LH-MUC 67%
EI-SNN 69%

The Ugly

SK-56%
QR-55%
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:49 pm

FGITD wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Oh please tell me the airport workers are paid more than that, It's Boston!


most of the folks you see working the ramp or check in at terminal E fall in that range. Those directly employed by the airlines tend to be a little higher, depending on seniority of course.

Huge turnover problems. Ramp work can be very exerting, in all manner of weather, and a lot of them end up making less than the others bussing tables inside the terminal.


Boston is among the most expensive cities to live in the US. They really should be paid more.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:15 pm

VS4ever wrote:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GjTFllOr0asXLH5v5AupRCFnWokTT9af/view?usp=sharing

T-100 International for Boston, tried to post as image but would not allow. Data for April 18 only. Samples of results

The Good:

CX - 86%
Level - 91%
AF - 90%
DL - CDG - 87%
LH - FRA 86%
WW-91%
DI-88%
TP-88%
EK-86%

The Bad
HU-PVG 69%
DL-LHR 69%
VS-67%
LH-MUC 67%
EI-SNN 69%

The Ugly

SK-56%
QR-55%


April is a weird one. Some Transatlantic is increased during this time and some isn't (example DL boosts AMS but LH doesn't boost FRA)

I checked QR and got 70% though the splits were way apart (BOS-DOH 56% DOH-BOS 86%)

CM also got 83% with increased service and a competitor about 400 miles southeast. They are holding their own against AV.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
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Dieuwer
Posts: 441
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:01 pm

jworks158 wrote:
So it looks like BOS will be tied for the first A220 Destination in the USA!
Delta announced today that the first A220 routes will be bookable starting tomorrow.
https://news.delta.com/delta-s-new-a220 ... uary-debut

Flights start January 31st 2019 From the LGA base to both BOS, and DFW!


I just read that the A220-300 has a 21% lower fuel burn than the B737-300. That's huge! Looks like Boeing needs to step up!
 
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AviationAddict
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:12 am

Dieuwer wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
So it looks like BOS will be tied for the first A220 Destination in the USA!
Delta announced today that the first A220 routes will be bookable starting tomorrow.
https://news.delta.com/delta-s-new-a220 ... uary-debut

Flights start January 31st 2019 From the LGA base to both BOS, and DFW!


I just read that the A220-300 has a 21% lower fuel burn than the B737-300. That's huge! Looks like Boeing needs to step up!


The 733 has been out of production for nearly 20 years and was designed in the early '80s, I think a 21% fuel burn difference between the two is reasonable. If the A220 was 21% more efficient than the 737-7 MAX then I'd agree.
 
tysmith95
Posts: 100
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:38 am

tlecam wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
So it looks like BOS will be tied for the first A220 Destination in the USA!
Delta announced today that the first A220 routes will be bookable starting tomorrow.
https://news.delta.com/delta-s-new-a220 ... uary-debut

Flights start January 31st 2019 From the LGA base to both BOS, and DFW!


I'm not surprised to see the c-series in Boston, but slightly surprised to see it so soon. Longer term, I suspect that it will be a frequent present on the route from BOS. Right size, right economics for many of the routes.


Not just Delta, Boston will likely be a big A220 base for Jetblue.
 
AirFrance744
Posts: 45
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:09 am

VS4ever wrote:
The Bad
HU-PVG 69%
DL-LHR 69%
VS-67%
LH-MUC 67%
EI-SNN 69%

I see MUC as being 78% and PDL being 67%.
There seems to be a large directional imbalance on PDL - 58% inbound and 85% outbound.

FGITD wrote:
The British a380 has never towed off the gate. It sits at e12 all day. Even when it's a 744 operating it stays on the gate. The 380 is a complicated push/tow. Even BA still has it towed all the way to e9 before unhooking and starting it up.

As has been mentioned a few times before (even by BA pilots), maneuvering the A380 at BOS is tricky, especially at the E9-12 area.
I was on a BA A380 flight in early May 2017, and after pushback we waited for about 55 minutes before taxiing. The captain explained that the new A380 gates are positioned in such a way that were were "boxed in" by all the rest of international departures pushing back due to our size. We had to wait for all aircraft ahead of us to get out the way. We arrived at LHR 65 minutes late, and they mentioned that due to the delay, there were a number of tight connections being made and asked everyone to let those heading to the specified flights deplane first.
After that experience, I looked at the flight history and found that the A380 flight is not usually delayed, so I don't understand how we were "boxed in", but on other days they are not. The only explanation I can think of is IRROPS by a different international carrier causing an issue.
Has anyone heard about this being an issue, or was this just a fluke thing?
Flown over 150,000 miles! Native Bostonian living in Orlando.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:41 am

AirFrance744 wrote:

As has been mentioned a few times before (even by BA pilots), maneuvering the A380 at BOS is tricky, especially at the E9-12 area.
I was on a BA A380 flight in early May 2017, and after pushback we waited for about 55 minutes before taxiing. The captain explained that the new A380 gates are positioned in such a way that were were "boxed in" by all the rest of international departures pushing back due to our size. We had to wait for all aircraft ahead of us to get out the way. We arrived at LHR 65 minutes late, and they mentioned that due to the delay, there were a number of tight connections being made and asked everyone to let those heading to the specified flights deplane first.
After that experience, I looked at the flight history and found that the A380 flight is not usually delayed, so I don't understand how we were "boxed in", but on other days they are not. The only explanation I can think of is IRROPS by a different international carrier causing an issue.
Has anyone heard about this being an issue, or was this just a fluke thing?


It's a very careful matter of timing. May 2017 was very shortly after the 380 service started, and therefore things were more complex (read: careful) than they are now. Basically everyone in E stopped until the 380 was clear. Bit more relaxed these days.

To push the 380 from E12, you must push it out into North cargo, avoiding the EK 77w and the QR 350 that are usually parked off one, or both wings. Not too far back, else you'll hit the JAL 787, any of a number of JetBlue aircraft, or UPS. Oh, and there's a light pole out there as well. Not as often now, but previously you also had to push it far enough back so that the next BA arrival, a 744 could swing into the gate.

Also worth noting; the taxiway in front of E9-12 (Taxiway Lima, I think) does not run parallel as it goes by E12. It's making a wide right turn, while the aircraft must make a sharp left turn. Or if pushing back, you must push straight out, then slightly left, then straighten out again, while following the aforementioned right turn. It's like a shallow angle crescent maneuver, if viewed from above.

The reason for the wait is because it's a single passage taxi way into North cargo. And because of the clearance the a380 needs, pretty much anyone else pushing from gate E6-9 will block it.

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that massport or atc opted to block in the a380 (who was then only delaying the next BA flight from accessing the gate the 380 just vacated) in favor of letting everyone else push/come in.

To simplify, you have BA 380 hold, causing a delay for the inbound BA, and in exchange you can have AF/LH/WW leave, and have DY/AZ/VS arrive at those newly vacant gates.

Apologies for rambling. I spent a lot of time studying how to operate out of those gates. Not quite just a push when ready and 90 degree turn, nose north or south.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:24 am

Terminal B new security checkpoint has opened - this is located by the old LUS shuttle counter. The new checkpoint is amazing and huge compared to the old ones. I did not get a chance to see the regular non TSA checkpoint - i will get a chance to see that on Thu when I return back home. I believe it is on time for AA new gates to be ready by the end of calendar year 2018.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:30 am

FGITD wrote:
AirFrance744 wrote:

As has been mentioned a few times before (even by BA pilots), maneuvering the A380 at BOS is tricky, especially at the E9-12 area.
I was on a BA A380 flight in early May 2017, and after pushback we waited for about 55 minutes before taxiing. The captain explained that the new A380 gates are positioned in such a way that were were "boxed in" by all the rest of international departures pushing back due to our size. We had to wait for all aircraft ahead of us to get out the way. We arrived at LHR 65 minutes late, and they mentioned that due to the delay, there were a number of tight connections being made and asked everyone to let those heading to the specified flights deplane first.
After that experience, I looked at the flight history and found that the A380 flight is not usually delayed, so I don't understand how we were "boxed in", but on other days they are not. The only explanation I can think of is IRROPS by a different international carrier causing an issue.
Has anyone heard about this being an issue, or was this just a fluke thing?


It's a very careful matter of timing. May 2017 was very shortly after the 380 service started, and therefore things were more complex (read: careful) than they are now. Basically everyone in E stopped until the 380 was clear. Bit more relaxed these days.

To push the 380 from E12, you must push it out into North cargo, avoiding the EK 77w and the QR 350 that are usually parked off one, or both wings. Not too far back, else you'll hit the JAL 787, any of a number of JetBlue aircraft, or UPS. Oh, and there's a light pole out there as well. Not as often now, but previously you also had to push it far enough back so that the next BA arrival, a 744 could swing into the gate.

Also worth noting; the taxiway in front of E9-12 (Taxiway Lima, I think) does not run parallel as it goes by E12. It's making a wide right turn, while the aircraft must make a sharp left turn. Or if pushing back, you must push straight out, then slightly left, then straighten out again, while following the aforementioned right turn. It's like a shallow angle crescent maneuver, if viewed from above.

The reason for the wait is because it's a single passage taxi way into North cargo. And because of the clearance the a380 needs, pretty much anyone else pushing from gate E6-9 will block it.

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that massport or atc opted to block in the a380 (who was then only delaying the next BA flight from accessing the gate the 380 just vacated) in favor of letting everyone else push/come in.

To simplify, you have BA 380 hold, causing a delay for the inbound BA, and in exchange you can have AF/LH/WW leave, and have DY/AZ/VS arrive at those newly vacant gates.

Apologies for rambling. I spent a lot of time studying how to operate out of those gates. Not quite just a push when ready and 90 degree turn, nose north or south.


That’s fascinating. A lot of moving parts. Thanks!
 
tjerome
Posts: 258
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:05 pm

33lspotter wrote:
Saw that a DL 772ER (AMS-ATL) diverted earlier this afternoon, I'm guessing the reason was medical?


Nope, planned pilot change
The comments and opinions expressed here are my own.
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AirFrance744
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:30 pm

FGITD wrote:
Apologies for rambling. I spent a lot of time studying how to operate out of those gates. Not quite just a push when ready and 90 degree turn, nose north or south.

Don't apologize, that was a very interesting read! It explains a lot. It seems that the rest of the planned E gates would have the same issue as they are in a one-way in and out situation, or is the North cargo area opening up to allow for increased access to those gates?
Flown over 150,000 miles! Native Bostonian living in Orlando.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:33 pm

I start to wonder if Logan needs a massive road overhaul in addition to the building of gates and new terminal space.
I was riding the bus from economy parking last Friday afternoon and the roads were a complete gridlock. Whoever decided that I-90 and 1A need to cross and interweave with airport roads was a complete idiot.
 
aaflyer777
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:42 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I start to wonder if Logan needs a massive road overhaul in addition to the building of gates and new terminal space.
I was riding the bus from economy parking last Friday afternoon and the roads were a complete gridlock. Whoever decided that I-90 and 1A need to cross and interweave with airport roads was a complete idiot.


Agreed, driving at Logan is a mess during rush hour. Took my bus 30 minutes to get from the blue line station to terminal C last week! I really wish there was a way to walk to the terminal, it'd probably be faster
 
B752OS
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:01 am

AirFrance744 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Apologies for rambling. I spent a lot of time studying how to operate out of those gates. Not quite just a push when ready and 90 degree turn, nose north or south.

Don't apologize, that was a very interesting read! It explains a lot. It seems that the rest of the planned E gates would have the same issue as they are in a one-way in and out situation, or is the North cargo area opening up to allow for increased access to those gates?


They need to find a way to move the economy lot and the State Police barracks. That would open up a lot of space of where the Terminal E expansion is going in and they could move north cargo and the FBOs over a bit to open up for an additional taxi way.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 1636
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:30 am

aaflyer777 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I start to wonder if Logan needs a massive road overhaul in addition to the building of gates and new terminal space.
I was riding the bus from economy parking last Friday afternoon and the roads were a complete gridlock. Whoever decided that I-90 and 1A need to cross and interweave with airport roads was a complete idiot.


Agreed, driving at Logan is a mess during rush hour. Took my bus 30 minutes to get from the blue line station to terminal C last week! I really wish there was a way to walk to the terminal, it'd probably be faster


Phase 2 of Terminal E will be the answer to your prayers, but don't be thinking you are going to see that much before 2025/2026. The aim is to have a link from Airport Station into the Terminal from the plans i have seen. would i be surprised if it gets shelved due to cost, no, but they are thinking about it and it is in the plans i have seen for that part of the extension.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
FGITD
Posts: 325
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:01 am

AirFrance744 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Apologies for rambling. I spent a lot of time studying how to operate out of those gates. Not quite just a push when ready and 90 degree turn, nose north or south.

Don't apologize, that was a very interesting read! It explains a lot. It seems that the rest of the planned E gates would have the same issue as they are in a one-way in and out situation, or is the North cargo area opening up to allow for increased access to those gates?



I've got a copy of the new expansion somewhere, and I believe it actually has 2 taxiways. There may still be a bottleneck by E10, but it'll be more like over at terminal A. All aircraft come and go on the one taxi way, but you can have them take either an inner or outer path once they enter north cargo. So it'll alleviate some of the problems, but not all.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:36 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I start to wonder if Logan needs a massive road overhaul in addition to the building of gates and new terminal space.
I was riding the bus from economy parking last Friday afternoon and the roads were a complete gridlock. Whoever decided that I-90 and 1A need to cross and interweave with airport roads was a complete idiot.


Agreed, driving at Logan is a mess during rush hour. Took my bus 30 minutes to get from the blue line station to terminal C last week! I really wish there was a way to walk to the terminal, it'd probably be faster


1A was there before Logan expanded into East Boston. Remember the Neptune Rd saga?
Two words: Ride-share. I bet half of those cars are Uber or Lyft. It has nothing to do with I-90/1A. You don't even get on 1A to go from the economy parking garage to the terminals. It's just the result of more cars driving to/from the terminals.
What ends up happening is that many cars trying to come into the terminals end up backing up into the airport roadways. Looks at terminal A or terminal C for example. There's no space at all for more than a hand-full of cars. Then to make matters even worse, Massport had the brilliant idea to ban cars from using the lanes closest to the terminal at terminal E, and in the evening with all the International traffic that causes a huge backup of cars waiting to get into the terminal E parking area. It's a complete mess.
 
seat24charlie
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:34 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:12 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I start to wonder if Logan needs a massive road overhaul in addition to the building of gates and new terminal space.
I was riding the bus from economy parking last Friday afternoon and the roads were a complete gridlock. Whoever decided that I-90 and 1A need to cross and interweave with airport roads was a complete idiot.


Agreed, driving at Logan is a mess during rush hour. Took my bus 30 minutes to get from the blue line station to terminal C last week! I really wish there was a way to walk to the terminal, it'd probably be faster


It'd be nice if, like most modern airports, we had a reliable and efficient transit system to move people in and out of the airport. Instead we'll keep throwing more roads at the problem and wonder open-mouthed why we're still stuck in traffic.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:09 pm

airbazar wrote:
aaflyer777 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I start to wonder if Logan needs a massive road overhaul in addition to the building of gates and new terminal space.
I was riding the bus from economy parking last Friday afternoon and the roads were a complete gridlock. Whoever decided that I-90 and 1A need to cross and interweave with airport roads was a complete idiot.


Agreed, driving at Logan is a mess during rush hour. Took my bus 30 minutes to get from the blue line station to terminal C last week! I really wish there was a way to walk to the terminal, it'd probably be faster


1A was there before Logan expanded into East Boston. Remember the Neptune Rd saga?
Two words: Ride-share. I bet half of those cars are Uber or Lyft. It has nothing to do with I-90/1A. You don't even get on 1A to go from the economy parking garage to the terminals. It's just the result of more cars driving to/from the terminals.
What ends up happening is that many cars trying to come into the terminals end up backing up into the airport roadways. Looks at terminal A or terminal C for example. There's no space at all for more than a hand-full of cars. Then to make matters even worse, Massport had the brilliant idea to ban cars from using the lanes closest to the terminal at terminal E, and in the evening with all the International traffic that causes a huge backup of cars waiting to get into the terminal E parking area. It's a complete mess.


Neptune Rd saga? Perhaps I wasn't born before then.
Also, to go to the economy parking lot, you first have to exit I-90 and enter the airport road system, then exit the airport road system and merge on the I-90/1A connector with the other traffic, and thereafter immediately exit again.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:20 pm

seat24charlie wrote:
It'd be nice if, like most modern airports, we had a reliable and efficient transit system to move people in and out of the airport. Instead we'll keep throwing more roads at the problem and wonder open-mouthed why we're still stuck in traffic.

It's not really a lack of public transit problem in this case, I don't think. Logan's proximity to a major metro area is more of a factor. It's the simple fact that 95% of passengers are O&D but the airport handles as many passengers as some major hubs. The proximity of a major urban center makes a taxi/ride-share trip affordable enough that you will always have a huge number of passengers who will opt for the faster and more convenient car option over the train or bus. Uber's and Lyft's lower prices over a taxi increased the area where people will decided to take a car vs. any other sort of transportation.
A few years ago, a taxi ride from my house to the airport used to be about $120 each way. Prohibitive. So I usually took the train or Logan Express. The last time I used Lyft to the airport it cost me $62. That's cheaper than parking the car for a week at Logan Express lot and paying for the bus ride. It's a no-brainer.
Dieuwer wrote:
Also, to go to the economy parking lot, you first have to exit I-90 and enter the airport road system, then exit the airport road system and merge on the I-90/1A connector with the other traffic, and thereafter immediately exit again.

Humm, from the economy garage to the terminals the bus follows Service Rd to the T station and then on to the terminals. It never leaves the airport roadways. If it did for you then Service Rd. must have been blocked for some reason which forced a detour.
I-90/1A don't really interfere with airport traffic and vice-versa, IMO. Yes they are busy during rush hour but which main Boston artery isn't busy at rush hour?

Neptune Rd was a East Boston neighborhood adjacent to Logan that was removed to make room for Logan's expansion. Essentially I'm implying that the roads and traffic were there before the airport, not the other way around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_Road
https://www.citylab.com/design/2013/05/ ... port/5472/
https://bostonlookingbackward.wordpress ... tune-road/
Last edited by airbazar on Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:33 pm

Silver Line is another joke. Sitting in traffic in the tunnel. Should have had its own bus lane all the way to the airport.
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:18 pm

NBC Boston did a story today summarizing the construction projects going on at logan, included are some pictures of the terminal B expansion. Where it appears carpet is going in! https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/Lo ... 07251.html
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:50 pm

jworks158 wrote:
NBC Boston did a story today summarizing the construction projects going on at logan, included are some pictures of the terminal B expansion. Where it appears carpet is going in! https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/Lo ... 07251.html


He knows some challenges remain including traffic congestion outside the terminals as well as parking.
Glynn says airport officials are looking at adding a people mover and a parking reservation.
 
tysmith95
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:33 am

Lately the ride-share waiting lot has caused lots of traffic at the airport. The current lot is not large enough or well organized enough to handle the amount of traffic it has been getting.

The tunnels are also getting worse and worse. But that is harder to fix. Something to allow the Silver line to cut the line into the Ted Williams would be helpful though, along with something better at the Seaport.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:05 pm

tysmith95 wrote:
Lately the ride-share waiting lot has caused lots of traffic at the airport. The current lot is not large enough or well organized enough to handle the amount of traffic it has been getting.

The tunnels are also getting worse and worse. But that is harder to fix. Something to allow the Silver line to cut the line into the Ted Williams would be helpful though, along with something better at the Seaport.


Boston and Massport completely underestimated ride-share and they have nothing in place to handle the volume of cars that that business brings into Logan. That is the single biggest reason for the traffic congestion on the airport roadways. They created a huge taxi-pool parking area but no such thing exists for ride-share so those cars just circle around until they pickup a customer.
 
cloudboy
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:56 pm

One of Boston's problems is that they try to control change by limiting infrastructure. Thus you get all these messes. They were fighting ride share, so they didn't really build enough lots and the roadways are poorly designed for them. They tried to get more people taking transit in, so didn't build efficient roadways thinking that would force people to transit. But transit itself only works for people in certain locations, so now that's a big mess.

At one point Logan Runways were relatively sane. Now it is a mess. But I have no idea how to fix them. They need to be simplified but for the life of me I still can't even figure out how they work now, let alone how to make them simpler. I think they can certainly improve the organization of cars, buses, taxis, vans, etc, waiting at the curbside areas.

The big problem though is the tunnels. They made a huge mistake limiting the Ted Williams to two lanes each way. Ironically this was the one piece of the big dig project that actually came in under budget. I think they should bite the bullet and make another double tube from Seaport, this time only for the silver line (busway, eventually light rail or subway) and a regular grade rail line. Build a huge garage either where the old CSX yards were, or even at Riverside, with an express train every 15 minutes that stops there, South Station, North Station, and then the Airport.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
Victorville
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:43 pm

tysmith95 wrote:
Lately the ride-share waiting lot has caused lots of traffic at the airport. The current lot is not large enough or well organized enough to handle the amount of traffic it has been getting.

The tunnels are also getting worse and worse. But that is harder to fix. Something to allow the Silver line to cut the line into the Ted Williams would be helpful though, along with something better at the Seaport.


Yes, I have seen the queues to get to the ridesharing area in Terminal A back up the entire entrance to the airport. In addition, the cell phone lot overflows at peak hours.
To me the best solution would be to allow cars to park in the garages for less than 60 minutes without a fee like some other airports do, and move all ridesharing there. There also has to be a better use for the E lots than surface parking.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:47 pm

Victorville wrote:
There also has to be a better use for the E lots than surface parking.



I think that area is already slated to become a garage at some point during the new E expansion.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:39 pm

The best solution that I see is to build the people mover with a connection to a large garage, either on current airport property or off-airport, then turn 1 or 2 floors of the central parking garage into a ride-share area. The Taxis probably wouldn't like it but ride-share is going to be bigger than taxis if it isn't already. And if you think things are bad now on the airport roadways, just wait until self-driving cars come along.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:54 pm

Looks like AM is going to suspend service to BOS next year. From Twitter:

Ghim-Lay Yeo @ghimlay
.@Aeromexico will suspend service on several domestic and US routes as it faces net loss in 2018: Mexico City to Boston, Washington Dulles & Portland; Monterrey to Las Vegas, Tijuana, Merida & Veracruz; and Guadalajara to Cancun and San Jose, California

https://twitter.com/ghimlay/status/1052574904527151104
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:21 pm

Kilgen wrote:
Looks like AM is going to suspend service to BOS next year. From Twitter:

Ghim-Lay Yeo @ghimlay
.@Aeromexico will suspend service on several domestic and US routes as it faces net loss in 2018: Mexico City to Boston, Washington Dulles & Portland; Monterrey to Las Vegas, Tijuana, Merida & Veracruz; and Guadalajara to Cancun and San Jose, California

https://twitter.com/ghimlay/status/1052574904527151104

Major loss for DL, with B6 entering the market in a few weeks.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:28 pm

BOS-MEX is a horrible red-eye on AM. Maybe that's one of the reasons why it doesn't work out.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:38 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
BOS-MEX is a horrible red-eye on AM. Maybe that's one of the reasons why it doesn't work out.


They tweaked the schedule quite a bit in their second tour of duty and settled into the red eye from BOS.

It has to be one of their longest US-Mexico routes too. Its not a massive market either.

Chalk up a win for B6 though it might be a bit of a Pyrrhic victory.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:58 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
BOS-MEX is a horrible red-eye on AM. Maybe that's one of the reasons why it doesn't work out.


They tweaked the schedule quite a bit in their second tour of duty and settled into the red eye from BOS.

It has to be one of their longest US-Mexico routes too. Its not a massive market either.

Chalk up a win for B6 though it might be a bit of a Pyrrhic victory.


I must admit the timing of the suspension with the commencement of B6 ops is interesting. I thought there wasn’t room for 2 on the route, and now that’s only likely to happen for a few months at best. New slot for a late night Euro arrival/departure available :) - yeah I know BOS ain’t slot controlled, call it a gate slot :)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:12 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
BOS-MEX is a horrible red-eye on AM. Maybe that's one of the reasons why it doesn't work out.


You mean you wouldn't like landing in Mexico City at 4:25 am?????

I don't see the appeal of these early morning red-eye flights.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:32 am

Agenda for the latest board meeting has been posted, normally nothing really exciting is on it... but tomorrow (agenda attached)
http://www.massport.com/media/2986/agen ... 8-2018.pdf

We get this..

https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... tation.pdf

What is "this" I hear you ask... It's the Auto People Mover project, they are requesting a partial budget of $15m, if the timings stay true, this is to determine the final selection and potentially move forward.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:16 am

VS4ever wrote:
Agenda for the latest board meeting has been posted, normally nothing really exciting is on it... but tomorrow (agenda attached)
http://www.massport.com/media/2986/agen ... 8-2018.pdf

We get this..

https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... tation.pdf

What is "this" I hear you ask... It's the Auto People Mover project, they are requesting a partial budget of $15m, if the timings stay true, this is to determine the final selection and potentially move forward.


What is the transportation center next to the car rental center?
 
Northeast748
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:04 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:20 am

airbazar wrote:
tysmith95 wrote:
Lately the ride-share waiting lot has caused lots of traffic at the airport. The current lot is not large enough or well organized enough to handle the amount of traffic it has been getting.

The tunnels are also getting worse and worse. But that is harder to fix. Something to allow the Silver line to cut the line into the Ted Williams would be helpful though, along with something better at the Seaport.


Boston and Massport completely underestimated ride-share and they have nothing in place to handle the volume of cars that that business brings into Logan. That is the single biggest reason for the traffic congestion on the airport roadways. They created a huge taxi-pool parking area but no such thing exists for ride-share so those cars just circle around until they pickup a customer.


The TNC/App cars get really backed up by the Rental Car Center in the afternoons and I wonder how it will be affected if they are actually moving the gas station to that area so E can be expanded.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 1636
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:06 am

B752OS wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Agenda for the latest board meeting has been posted, normally nothing really exciting is on it... but tomorrow (agenda attached)
http://www.massport.com/media/2986/agen ... 8-2018.pdf

We get this..

https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... tation.pdf

What is "this" I hear you ask... It's the Auto People Mover project, they are requesting a partial budget of $15m, if the timings stay true, this is to determine the final selection and potentially move forward.


What is the transportation center next to the car rental center?


I have a feeling that's the placement for one of the new parking garages that will go up. They call it a transportation center, because it would ideally be connected by either bus or APM. they could also route some of the regular bus routes there, to make it all fit together. I wish there was more info about it, but I am yet to be able to find it.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5272
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:20 am

NickolayAv wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
Looks like AM is going to suspend service to BOS next year. From Twitter:

Ghim-Lay Yeo @ghimlay
.@Aeromexico will suspend service on several domestic and US routes as it faces net loss in 2018: Mexico City to Boston, Washington Dulles & Portland; Monterrey to Las Vegas, Tijuana, Merida & Veracruz; and Guadalajara to Cancun and San Jose, California

https://twitter.com/ghimlay/status/1052574904527151104

Major loss for DL, with B6 entering the market in a few weeks.

I don't really see why. Its a small long market that offers little to DL/AM that JFK-MEX doesn't.

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