iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 5:12 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I hope you like sitting in traffic forever. Because that's what's gonna happen if Amazon HQ2 comes to Boston. You think it is bad now?? Just wait...

Sorry I do not like to speak on AMZN HQ2 theories and AMZN just acquired a huge office space in the Seaport and it's going to be the hub for Alexa and robotics development - the core cutting edge. The traffic situation is worse in all the cities that made it through the shortlisting - even PIT has a horrendous traffic through the tunnels. It may sound amusing but the fact is BOS has one of the good public transportation services compared to other cities - in the same league as NYC, CHI, DC. The others I better not say much.

The state has offered Suffolk Downs as a potential location - it is very accessible to Logan but I do not think it is a AMZN kind of a location. AMZN seems to be more of a Fort Point, Kendall Sq. kind of a company. But maybe the state will give a huge tax break to build something in East Boston.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 5:20 pm

iyerhari wrote:
It may sound amusing but the fact is BOS has one of the good public transportation services compared to other cities - in the same league as NYC, CHI, DC. The others I better not say much.
.


Public transport in Boston is so "good", the Silver Line to BOS is sitting in the same traffic as everyone else! HAHAHAHA!!

:banghead:
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 5:45 pm

The truth is that none of Amazon's short-list cities are 'good' when it comes to traffic woes. 'Boston' could end up being a huge parcel alongside Route 495 somewhere. But the airline maneuvering in BOS might be DL and B6 thinking we've won it. Just my $0.02.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 5:48 pm

My two cents (and it's worth less than that.)

- DL probably doesn't need to be #1 overall in BOS. It probably can't compete with B6 on routes to smaller locations that aren't business destinations or all of the leisure routes that B6 flies. To a certain extent, it would probably hurt existing hubs (LGA, DTW, JFK) that handle a lot of that traffic today to add all those routes, and they don't have the terminal space or the planes to do it anyway.

- The subway situation, while not great (to be generous) is still better than what a lot of cities have. Personally, I rank it 3rd in the US, behind NYC and Chicago. DC is making some investments and it may over take the T, but there aren't a ton of places with relatively comprehensive rail based mass transit, particularly subway systems. BOS traffic is horrible (as is NYC, Chicago) but in my experience it's not bad compared to ATL, LA, Dallas, Houston etc... New rail stock should eventually help reliability assuming it comes through before I expire. However, they really do need to invest in expanding rapid transit (extending blue, orange, red lines; adding light rail to the seaport and southie, converting Fairmont to rapid transit etc...). I don't expect to see any of that any time soon. GLX is about it.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 6:46 pm

tlecam wrote:
My two cents (and it's worth less than that.)

- The subway situation, while not great (to be generous) is still better than what a lot of cities have. Personally, I rank it 3rd in the US, behind NYC and Chicago. DC is making some investments and it may over take the T, but there aren't a ton of places with relatively comprehensive rail based mass transit, particularly subway systems. BOS traffic is horrible (as is NYC, Chicago) but in my experience it's not bad compared to ATL, LA, Dallas, Houston etc... New rail stock should eventually help reliability assuming it comes through before I expire. However, they really do need to invest in expanding rapid transit (extending blue, orange, red lines; adding light rail to the seaport and southie, converting Fairmont to rapid transit etc...). I don't expect to see any of that any time soon. GLX is about it.

The challenge is years of MBTA neglect and financial woes has crippled the MBTA. Add to that pension, union, and maintenance deferral, it is always been a challenge. Every few months, we see Globe articles related to North-South station connect, new trolleys, commuter rail expansion but they go at a snail pace. It is challenging for a MBTA type of service to make profits. If Charley card prices need to be hiked, it is an emotional issue.

http://www.metro-magazine.com/managemen ... ic-transit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... _ridership
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 6:50 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
Another factor could be Amazon HQ2. Some smarties are saying That Boston and D.C. are neck and neck to win this prize, and the posturing by airlines is happening ahead of that announcement.


I wonder if DL will bring lieflat seat to the BOS-SEA route. I'm sure the Amazon higher ups are gonna be much more interested in having a MINT seat than an old school first class recliner on DL.


Does Amazon have any partnership with AS - I know they have something with B6 TrueBlue which got cut back a bit (can only earn while shopping during flights now).
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 7:32 pm

iyerhari wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
Delta's tactic so far of expanding rapidly in Boston has been very smart. They are leveraging mostly regional flying to add alot of destinations quickly with very little risk as far as filling large planes. Of course as routes mature they can get upgauged to larger aircraft. But for now the plan seems to be working well.

One way DL can grow quickly is ramping up TATL and other international flying from BOS. DUB has been a good step in the right direction for them. They could easily add some additional business heavy routes before B6 starts to dip their toes in the TATL waters. A bunch of international 767s and A330s would beef up their passenger count significantly.

I'm really happy to see these carriers start to fight it out. Has really been great for travelers in the area. Better pricing on better products with everyone trying to compete for our business.

TATL is good but IMO they cannot do that until they get back their gates in Terminal A. I do not know if Massport can be creative and maybe add a gate/additional for DL - I just do not know if that is possible with the current configuration of A. DL has added quite a lot of new destinations and are showing keen interest to expand BOS which is good. Hopefully DL is working to get ICN and maybe HND? (possible?)

DL isn't about to add more TATL flying on 767/A330 simply because they don't have the gates to accommodate t hat type of aircraft. Any future TATL expansion will have to happen on A321's.

The rumor that VS is going double-daily on BOS-LHR makes sense in the context that it could allow DL to use the gate to start a new WB TATL route.
 
Kno
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 9:52 pm

airbazar wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
Delta's tactic so far of expanding rapidly in Boston has been very smart. They are leveraging mostly regional flying to add alot of destinations quickly with very little risk as far as filling large planes. Of course as routes mature they can get upgauged to larger aircraft. But for now the plan seems to be working well.

One way DL can grow quickly is ramping up TATL and other international flying from BOS. DUB has been a good step in the right direction for them. They could easily add some additional business heavy routes before B6 starts to dip their toes in the TATL waters. A bunch of international 767s and A330s would beef up their passenger count significantly.

I'm really happy to see these carriers start to fight it out. Has really been great for travelers in the area. Better pricing on better products with everyone trying to compete for our business.

TATL is good but IMO they cannot do that until they get back their gates in Terminal A. I do not know if Massport can be creative and maybe add a gate/additional for DL - I just do not know if that is possible with the current configuration of A. DL has added quite a lot of new destinations and are showing keen interest to expand BOS which is good. Hopefully DL is working to get ICN and maybe HND? (possible?)

DL isn't about to add more TATL flying on 767/A330 simply because they don't have the gates to accommodate t hat type of aircraft. Any future TATL expansion will have to happen on A321's.

The rumor that VS is going double-daily on BOS-LHR makes sense in the context that it could allow DL to use the gate to start a new WB TATL route.


Right but when they get their gates back from SW they'll have more widebody gates. A19 fit up to a 767-400 without blocking additional gates. They also used to park 767s at the main terminal which blocked another gate but with gates back from SW it could make up for it. I think they could figure something out in 2019 if they want to expand internationally with widebodies.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 10:33 pm

Kno wrote:
airbazar wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
TATL is good but IMO they cannot do that until they get back their gates in Terminal A. I do not know if Massport can be creative and maybe add a gate/additional for DL - I just do not know if that is possible with the current configuration of A. DL has added quite a lot of new destinations and are showing keen interest to expand BOS which is good. Hopefully DL is working to get ICN and maybe HND? (possible?)

DL isn't about to add more TATL flying on 767/A330 simply because they don't have the gates to accommodate t hat type of aircraft. Any future TATL expansion will have to happen on A321's.

The rumor that VS is going double-daily on BOS-LHR makes sense in the context that it could allow DL to use the gate to start a new WB TATL route.


Right but when they get their gates back from SW they'll have more widebody gates. A19 fit up to a 767-400 without blocking additional gates. They also used to park 767s at the main terminal which blocked another gate but with gates back from SW it could make up for it. I think they could figure something out in 2019 if they want to expand internationally with widebodies.



I agree more widebody flying will start when they get the gates back. I think international is part of the expantion plan. They have said mutiple times they want to be the global airline of choice for Boston. Already they are connecting passengers thru Bos with all these regional flights. I know people think this can hurt other hubs. But if BOS as a market continues to grow these flights could start to transition to more local traffic and not depend on as many connecting passengers to fill them. Also with the cutting of DL PHL-JFK they will now be connecting Skyteam thru Boston from PHL.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 11:02 pm

Kno wrote:
Right but when they get their gates back from SW they'll have more widebody gates. A19 fit up to a 767-400 without blocking additional gates. They also used to park 767s at the main terminal which blocked another gate but with gates back from SW it could make up for it. I think they could figure something out in 2019 if they want to expand internationally with widebodies.

If there was a CBP in Terminal A, DL could really seal the deal with international flights from BOS.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
ILS28ORD
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 11:48 pm

A few years ago DL did fly BOS-ORD on CRJs but dropped it. Not sure why. If I remember correctly they had 2-3 flights a day.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 12:39 am

Why is SEA able to sustain service to Chicago on 6 carriers (NK, AS, WN, AA, UA and DL) but Boston wouldn't?
 
Kno
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 12:40 am

ILS28ORD wrote:
A few years ago DL did fly BOS-ORD on CRJs but dropped it. Not sure why. If I remember correctly they had 2-3 flights a day.


Others here know more than me, but, AA and UA fly much bigger and nicer equipment on that route, with tons of frequency, have plenty of connections, and the prices can be found for under $200 RT all the time. Sounds like it would be hard to make a profit.
 
bagoldex
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 1:18 am

B752OS wrote:
Why is SEA able to sustain service to Chicago on 6 carriers (NK, AS, WN, AA, UA and DL) but Boston wouldn't?


Seattle-Chicago is likely a larger market. There's brand loyalty in Seattle on DL and AS and in Chicago on AA, UA and WN(plus feed to and from their respective hubs) and NK has found a niche for itself.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 1:38 am

bagoldex wrote:
B752OS wrote:
Why is SEA able to sustain service to Chicago on 6 carriers (NK, AS, WN, AA, UA and DL) but Boston wouldn't?


Seattle-Chicago is likely a larger market. There's brand loyalty in Seattle on DL and AS and in Chicago on AA, UA and WN(plus feed to and from their respective hubs) and NK has found a niche for itself.

SEA is an AS and DL hub. BOS has 5 carriers to BOS - AA, UA, B6, WN and NK. Once DL enters the race, it will be a 6 carrier route.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 2:27 am

bagoldex wrote:
B752OS wrote:
Why is SEA able to sustain service to Chicago on 6 carriers (NK, AS, WN, AA, UA and DL) but Boston wouldn't?


Seattle-Chicago is likely a larger market. There's brand loyalty in Seattle on DL and AS and in Chicago on AA, UA and WN(plus feed to and from their respective hubs) and NK has found a niche for itself.



BOS-CHI O+D is double SEA-CHI O+D but seat wise but it narrows to about 10:7 BOS:SEA from O'Hare in total passengers which makes sense due to amount of hubs that touch the Seattle-Chicago city pair. I don't know MDW #'s but neither BOS or SEA are in that airports top 10 in pax.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 4:56 am

http://www.massport.com/media/2795/apri ... ermark.pdf

Not too much this month in terms of the released presentation deck, one interesting note, is that the CTU-BOS flight appears to be underpinned by 5 or 6 major companies who i am sure have committed some level of pax for the route, other than that, a bit about the expansion at ORH, the rest is policinga and other stuff.
Feel free to read all 163 slides at your leisure :).
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
VS11
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 4:35 pm

The rumors for a second VS flight to LHR are turning to be true. Starting with Summer 2019, it will be a daytime flight to LHR leaving BOS at 8:30am. The inbound will depart LHR at 8:30pm.

https://mobile.twitter.com/virginatlant ... 8336?s=12p
 
hinckley
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 4:48 pm

VS11 wrote:
The rumors for a second VS flight to LHR are turning to be true. Starting with Summer 2019, it will be a daytime flight to LHR leaving BOS at 8:30am. The inbound will depart LHR at 8:30pm.


I presume the arrival time into BOS will be around 10:30pm, so I guess there's still gate availability at Terminal E at that time, although those late arrival/departure gates must be getting scarce along with most of the other times.

The daytime TATL departures must be gaining some traction as well. I remember those flights were always empty years ago when they began. They were often the only FF seats available. But I have the feeling they've become more popular of late, especially with BA's earlier departure and more LHR connections. Anyone know the LF on BA's morning flight?
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 4:57 pm

hinckley wrote:
VS11 wrote:
The daytime TATL departures must be gaining some traction as well. I remember those flights were always empty years ago when they began. They were often the only FF seats available. But I have the feeling they've become more popular of late, especially with BA's earlier departure and more LHR connections. Anyone know the LF on BA's morning flight?

My understanding is that morning departure fares are more premium than evening departures because of the strictly O&D nature of the market hence why there are more empty seats. The cheaper red-eye tends to sell first. I'm not a TATL business flier but if I was I would always chose this option. I've done is once and it's far more comfortable than the red-eye.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 5:13 pm

VS11 wrote:
The rumors for a second VS flight to LHR are turning to be true. Starting with Summer 2019, it will be a daytime flight to LHR leaving BOS at 8:30am. The inbound will depart LHR at 8:30pm.

https://mobile.twitter.com/virginatlant ... 8336?s=12p


Lets see if the other shoe falls: whether or not DL drops BOS-LHR.

I wonder if DL were to instead go to 3x daily AMS instead of adding a new Transatlantic destination?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 5:43 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
VS11 wrote:
The rumors for a second VS flight to LHR are turning to be true. Starting with Summer 2019, it will be a daytime flight to LHR leaving BOS at 8:30am. The inbound will depart LHR at 8:30pm.

https://mobile.twitter.com/virginatlant ... 8336?s=12p


Lets see if the other shoe falls: whether or not DL drops BOS-LHR.

I wonder if DL were to instead go to 3x daily AMS instead of adding a new Transatlantic destination?


Great minds... I had the same exact thought.

I posted this in the AF/DL/KL/VS TATL discussion, but I wonder if we'll see a broader rationalization of which planes fly which routes..

I wouldn't be surprised if DL added more capacity to BOS-AMS - the LF's are usually pretty good and they pump tons of connections through AMS.

Also wouldn't be surprised if they drop DL metal BOS-LHR. My understanding is that the front cabin drives that route and while I personally like DL's 763 product, the VS service is a step up, including the ClubHouse and the onboard - particularly if they use the 789, although I know that they also use 330's on the route.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 6:12 pm

tlecam wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
VS11 wrote:
The rumors for a second VS flight to LHR are turning to be true. Starting with Summer 2019, it will be a daytime flight to LHR leaving BOS at 8:30am. The inbound will depart LHR at 8:30pm.

https://mobile.twitter.com/virginatlant ... 8336?s=12p


Lets see if the other shoe falls: whether or not DL drops BOS-LHR.

I wonder if DL were to instead go to 3x daily AMS instead of adding a new Transatlantic destination?


Great minds... I had the same exact thought.

I posted this in the AF/DL/KL/VS TATL discussion, but I wonder if we'll see a broader rationalization of which planes fly which routes..

I wouldn't be surprised if DL added more capacity to BOS-AMS - the LF's are usually pretty good and they pump tons of connections through AMS.

Also wouldn't be surprised if they drop DL metal BOS-LHR. My understanding is that the front cabin drives that route and while I personally like DL's 763 product, the VS service is a step up, including the ClubHouse and the onboard - particularly if they use the 789, although I know that they also use 330's on the route.

I hope DL stays on the route their 767s have more space than some of the other carriers. But isn't DL's flight to LHR just a slot-switch with AA, so isn't AA getting the flight back soon anyways?
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 7:07 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
tlecam wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

Lets see if the other shoe falls: whether or not DL drops BOS-LHR.

I wonder if DL were to instead go to 3x daily AMS instead of adding a new Transatlantic destination?


Great minds... I had the same exact thought.

I posted this in the AF/DL/KL/VS TATL discussion, but I wonder if we'll see a broader rationalization of which planes fly which routes..

I wouldn't be surprised if DL added more capacity to BOS-AMS - the LF's are usually pretty good and they pump tons of connections through AMS.

Also wouldn't be surprised if they drop DL metal BOS-LHR. My understanding is that the front cabin drives that route and while I personally like DL's 763 product, the VS service is a step up, including the ClubHouse and the onboard - particularly if they use the 789, although I know that they also use 330's on the route.


I hope DL stays on the route their 767s have more space than some of the other carriers. But isn't DL's flight to LHR just a slot-switch with AA, so isn't AA getting the flight back soon anyways?



Space is fine at 10.30 at night for a RON, BA's day time flight leaves 40 minutes earlier than VS's is planned to, but interesting fight brewing at that point.
yes AA gets the slot back soon as part of a previous agreement, but they won't use it from BOS. I suspect this slot is one of VS's that has been previously used or has been transferred from one of the other loyal carriers
i would be curious when a 3x AMS would fly, in terms of timing, as slots at AMS are not exactly plentiful either. I do think BOS-LHR on DL maybe is on life support given this decision and then the question becomes do they use the gate space for more domestic or try a different route like EDI/BRU/MXP as examples.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 8:14 pm

VS4ever wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
tlecam wrote:

Great minds... I had the same exact thought.

I posted this in the AF/DL/KL/VS TATL discussion, but I wonder if we'll see a broader rationalization of which planes fly which routes..

I wouldn't be surprised if DL added more capacity to BOS-AMS - the LF's are usually pretty good and they pump tons of connections through AMS.

Also wouldn't be surprised if they drop DL metal BOS-LHR. My understanding is that the front cabin drives that route and while I personally like DL's 763 product, the VS service is a step up, including the ClubHouse and the onboard - particularly if they use the 789, although I know that they also use 330's on the route.


I hope DL stays on the route their 767s have more space than some of the other carriers. But isn't DL's flight to LHR just a slot-switch with AA, so isn't AA getting the flight back soon anyways?





Space is fine at 10.30 at night for a RON, BA's day time flight leaves 40 minutes earlier than VS's is planned to, but interesting fight brewing at that point.
yes AA gets the slot back soon as part of a previous agreement, but they won't use it from BOS. I suspect this slot is one of VS's that has been previously used or has been transferred from one of the other loyal carriers
i would be curious when a 3x AMS would fly, in terms of timing, as slots at AMS are not exactly plentiful either. I do think BOS-LHR on DL maybe is on life support given this decision and then the question becomes do they use the gate space for more domestic or try a different route like EDI/BRU/MXP as examples.


Actually what would be funny is if DL did in fact start BOS-BOM....Massport have been angling for an India route for a long time... I know the logic says absolutely not, but i think it would send shockwaves through a.net if they did.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 8:25 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Actually what would be funny is if DL did in fact start BOS-BOM....Massport have been angling for an India route for a long time... I know the logic says absolutely not, but i think it would send shockwaves through a.net if they did.

If they did, I would probably actually start considering them the global airline of BOS, also I would love to see the reaction of DL fanboys of JFK envying that BOS has a DL Asia route and they don't. But I would love to see an A350 route from BOS (I know it's not likely it will happen)
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 8:33 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Actually what would be funny is if DL did in fact start BOS-BOM....Massport have been angling for an India route for a long time... I know the logic says absolutely not, but i think it would send shockwaves through a.net if they did.

If they did, I would probably actually start considering them the global airline of BOS, also I would love to see the reaction of DL fanboys of JFK envying that BOS has a DL Asia route and they don't. But I would love to see an A350 route from BOS (I know it's not likely it will happen)


Oh i think DTW would be way worse than the JFK boys!
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 8:43 pm

VS4ever wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Actually what would be funny is if DL did in fact start BOS-BOM....Massport have been angling for an India route for a long time... I know the logic says absolutely not, but i think it would send shockwaves through a.net if they did.

If they did, I would probably actually start considering them the global airline of BOS, also I would love to see the reaction of DL fanboys of JFK envying that BOS has a DL Asia route and they don't. But I would love to see an A350 route from BOS (I know it's not likely it will happen)


Oh i think DTW would be way worse than the JFK boys!

True
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
hinckley
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 8:54 pm

airbazar wrote:
My understanding is that morning departure fares are more premium than evening departures because of the strictly O&D nature of the market hence why there are more empty seats. The cheaper red-eye tends to sell first. I'm not a TATL business flier but if I was I would always chose this option. I've done is once and it's far more comfortable than the red-eye.

I don't believe that's true. I've been flying BOS-LHR 3-4x a year for at least 20 years and I really think that most people - at lease business people - prefer the overnight flights. And it's not only that you don't waste a day in the air. If you can sleep just a little on the flight, the jet lag is really easier to overcome flying overnight (for most people). Otherwise, you'd see more demand, and therefore more supply, of daytime flights.

adamh8297 wrote:
Lets see if the other shoe falls: whether or not DL drops BOS-LHR. I wonder if DL were to instead go to 3x daily AMS instead of adding a new Transatlantic destination?

I think that that would be more likely if VS had added an overnight flight. I usually fly DL from BOS-LHR and the front cabin is indeed almost always full. There's a lot of business people up there and most of them are not going to switch to a daytime flight imo.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 9:39 pm

hinckley wrote:
airbazar wrote:
My understanding is that morning departure fares are more premium than evening departures because of the strictly O&D nature of the market hence why there are more empty seats. The cheaper red-eye tends to sell first. I'm not a TATL business flier but if I was I would always chose this option. I've done is once and it's far more comfortable than the red-eye.

I don't believe that's true. I've been flying BOS-LHR 3-4x a year for at least 20 years and I really think that most people - at lease business people - prefer the overnight flights. And it's not only that you don't waste a day in the air. If you can sleep just a little on the flight, the jet lag is really easier to overcome flying overnight (for most people). Otherwise, you'd see more demand, and therefore more supply, of daytime flights.

adamh8297 wrote:
Lets see if the other shoe falls: whether or not DL drops BOS-LHR. I wonder if DL were to instead go to 3x daily AMS instead of adding a new Transatlantic destination?

I think that that would be more likely if VS had added an overnight flight. I usually fly DL from BOS-LHR and the front cabin is indeed almost always full. There's a lot of business people up there and most of them are not going to switch to a daytime flight imo.


Yes the red-eyes are popular for that reason. I used to work for Caterpillar in the UK, my boss was from Peoria, IL, he would hop a flight ORD-LHR and get a taxi up to the midlands and be in the office around noon. Day flight would be tough for that.
The Day flights are good for Leisure and those who don’t have to be there at the crack of dawn. You can get into London, crash and go the next day. Good for conferences and the like.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out now you have 2 carriers doing it.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
VS11
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 10:29 pm

Also, the daytime VS flight would be arriving around 8:30pm which would allow for connections on VS to Delhi, Hong Kong, Dubai and Lagos all of which leave around 10pm and after.
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 12:33 am

hinckley wrote:
VS11 wrote:
The rumors for a second VS flight to LHR are turning to be true. Starting with Summer 2019, it will be a daytime flight to LHR leaving BOS at 8:30am. The inbound will depart LHR at 8:30pm.

They were often the only FF seats available. But I have the feeling they've become more popular of late, especially with BA's earlier departure and more LHR connections. Anyone know the LF on BA's morning flight?
Don't know what it is, though I did just book this flight for a december trip on a 744, however this week they downgraded it to a 772. So that may say something related to the LF
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(A359,A343,A319/320/321)(B744/B748,B762,B752,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
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hinckley
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 2:12 am

jworks158 wrote:
Don't know what it is, though I did just book this flight for a december trip on a 744, however this week they downgraded it to a 772. So that may say something related to the LF


I have taken the day flight a small handful of times connecting thru to SIN or KUL, and it's been the 772. The flight's occasionally up-guaged to a 744, but I think the norm is the smaller plane.
 
33lspotter
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 1:04 pm

hinckley wrote:
I have taken the day flight a small handful of times connecting thru to SIN or KUL, and it's been the 772. The flight's occasionally up-guaged to a 744, but I think the norm is the smaller plane.

It usually is a 772, but this past winter schedule (late October to late March) it was a 744 daily — the only 744 that BA sent to BOS during that time.
 
aaflyer777
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 1:34 pm

If business pax prefer the evening flights wouldn't it make sense for DL to keep their evening BOS-LHR flight?
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 5:07 pm

hinckley wrote:
I don't believe that's true. I've been flying BOS-LHR 3-4x a year for at least 20 years and I really think that most people - at lease business people - prefer the overnight flights. And it's not only that you don't waste a day in the air. If you can sleep just a little on the flight, the jet lag is really easier to overcome flying overnight (for most people). Otherwise, you'd see more demand, and therefore more supply, of daytime flights.


You always waste a day. You waste the first day because you're so tired and jet-lagged. And you waste a day on the return leg because yo uneed to get to the airport early. In VS's case a 3:55PM departure requires you to be at the airport by 2:30pm and it's at least an hour from city-center. So you get at best, half a day in London.
And it's impossible to sleep on a 5hr flight. One of my rarest business trips via LHR was on BA in J just over a year ago and even with dinner served in the lounge before take-off and a flat bed I couldn't get any sleep. I was a zombie all day. That's pretty standard for me for TATL crossings.
If red-eye's were so popular for business passengers you;d see few west-coast>east-coast daytime flights. There's a misconception that the TATL schedule is based on the passengers' needs. It's not. It's based on the airline's connecting banks. The major European connecting banks are in the morning so their TATL schedules have to fit into those banks. Because of night time curfews airlines are very limited in the number of late night ops and that is the main reason why you don't see more daytime TATL crossings.

aaflyer777 wrote:
If business pax prefer the evening flights wouldn't it make sense for DL to keep their evening BOS-LHR flight?

I don't think it's one of the other. They complement eachother and there's demand for both.
But the daytime departure is predominantly O&D and it tends to carry a higher fare premium.
The daytime flight works great if your final destination is London proper. And with onboard Internet there's still a lot of work that can get done on the plane.
And it's not great for leisure hence why the LF's are lower. People on vacation do value their time probably even more than those traveling for business, especially American's who have very little vacation time. If you only get 2 weeks vacation a year you don't want to waste an entire day flying and since you don't have to go to work upon arrival it doesn't really matter how rested you are,
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat May 19, 2018 2:25 pm

Anyone hear anything of the inaugural PF STN-BOS-STN? Seems like there were no issues in arrival/departure but nothing on social media about it.

A321neo was used. Registration:OY-PAA

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oy-paa
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
33lspotter
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat May 19, 2018 5:08 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
Anyone hear anything of the inaugural PF STN-BOS-STN? Seems like there were no issues in arrival/departure but nothing on social media about it.

A321neo was used. Registration:OY-PAA

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oy-paa


I saw it land, but wasn't going to stay around for an hour-and-a-half to watch it depart. No idea in terms of reception/etc., although there are some photos floating around on Facebook.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat May 19, 2018 5:31 pm

Saw this from Jon Ostrower on twitter, found it interesting to look back in time 15 years.

http://airlinemaps.tumblr.com/post/1738 ... 01-2003-us
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat May 19, 2018 6:00 pm

VS has loaded the second LHR flight and DL code is already on it.

LHR-BOS starts on 3/31/2018 and BOS-LHR starts on 4/1/2018

VS 157 LHR-BOS 20:30-23:00
VS 158 BOS-LHR 08:30-20:10

The BOS-LHR leg does connect to DXB, DEL, HKG, LOS, SIN (via SQ codeshare) and PEK (via CA codeshare) plus any other interlines they can make at LHR.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 2:13 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
Anyone hear anything of the inaugural PF STN-BOS-STN? Seems like there were no issues in arrival/departure but nothing on social media about it.

A321neo was used. Registration:OY-PAA

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oy-paa


Pics just posted on Boston Logan FB page, seemed very low key
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 5:26 pm

VS4ever wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
Anyone hear anything of the inaugural PF STN-BOS-STN? Seems like there were no issues in arrival/departure but nothing on social media about it.

A321neo was used. Registration:OY-PAA

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oy-paa


Pics just posted on Boston Logan FB page, seemed very low key


I went by quickly (if I'm honest, I was only looking for any freebies) and there wasn't much. I think maybe balloons but that was it. Shockingly, ultra low cost carriers aren't famous for really breaking the bank on airport parties.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 7:16 pm

Been thinking more about Sichuan Airlines and their stated interest in a BOS-CTU flight. Is there a business connection between BOS & CTU that would warrant this flight before say KE/OZ to ICN or BR/CI to TPE. Just seems odd that would come first.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 8:06 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Been thinking more about Sichuan Airlines and their stated interest in a BOS-CTU flight. Is there a business connection between BOS & CTU that would warrant this flight before say KE/OZ to ICN or BR/CI to TPE. Just seems odd that would come first.


I saw a list somewhere and the big one that stood out was GE. In order to get that flight, corporate folks must have committed to some kind of numbers, otherwise it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.
If I find the list, i'll copy it here,
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon May 21, 2018 10:44 pm

Did anyone see this today? I'm surprised they chose to do this event in BOS vs a larger hub.
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com ... at-lounge/
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 12:52 am

NickolayAv wrote:
Did anyone see this today? I'm surprised they chose to do this event in BOS vs a larger hub.
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com ... at-lounge/


I am sure others will get there turn. BOS is not small potatoes to DL and let's remember they are trying to grow and grab market share. little gimmicks like this, give folks a feel good factor (wish i had that before my 4 1/2 hours to AUS on B6, even with their slightly bigger leg room)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 12:53 am

NickolayAv wrote:
Did anyone see this today? I'm surprised they chose to do this event in BOS vs a larger hub.
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com ... at-lounge/


They're trying to build their brand in Boston. Far more necessary in Boston than say Detroit or Atlanta where they already are so dominant.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 12:58 am

B752OS wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Did anyone see this today? I'm surprised they chose to do this event in BOS vs a larger hub.
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com ... at-lounge/


They're trying to build their brand in Boston. Far more necessary in Boston than say Detroit or Atlanta where they already are so dominant.


I agree, but wish DL would look at other ways to build their brand in BOS. Knowing that they're after the business crowd and steadily increasing their Business class (DeltaOne) cabin offering out of BOS - installing showers in the SkyClub would be a good first step, bringing it on par with SFO and SEA. A 1-day pop-up lounge isn't going to have much of a lasting impact.
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 12:59 am

VS4ever wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Did anyone see this today? I'm surprised they chose to do this event in BOS vs a larger hub.
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com ... at-lounge/


I am sure others will get there turn. BOS is not small potatoes to DL and let's remember they are trying to grow and grab market share. little gimmicks like this, give folks a feel good factor (wish i had that before my 4 1/2 hours to AUS on B6, even with their slightly bigger leg room)


There is no reason to do it at places they dominate. DL is feeling more competitive pressure at BOS than any of the other new hubs/focus cities that they are building up. Great way to promote their product.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 1:52 am

I think this is pretty obvious, but the goal isn’t to offer a small number of middle seat passengers something unique, it’s to get the brand buzzing in the local market. Local media coverage, water cooler conversation etc... WIll last a lot longer than one day.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90

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