Boston aviation - 2018

pitbosflyer · Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:29 pm

chrisnh wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Flying out of BOS this morning and just saw the morning BA BOS-LHR depart. Was a 744, though I know they’ve operated the 772 & 789 as well. How does this flight do overall for loads? Does the fact it’s a 744 in winter mean it’s typically a busy flight?

I've been on that morning flight three times, during the off season, twice in a 777 and once on the 787-9. In all cases the flights were only a little over half-full. A 744 on this rotation is a head-scratcher to me, but I'm just an observer with a few data points. Maybe the inbound to Boston the night before is why they need it.

The 744 is a high J configuration. Could that be the reason for it being in the rotation?

VS11 · Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:42 pm

chrisnh wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Flying out of BOS this morning and just saw the morning BA BOS-LHR depart. Was a 744, though I know they’ve operated the 772 & 789 as well. How does this flight do overall for loads? Does the fact it’s a 744 in winter mean it’s typically a busy flight?

I've been on that morning flight three times, during the off season, twice in a 777 and once on the 787-9. In all cases the flights were only a little over half-full. A 744 on this rotation is a head-scratcher to me, but I'm just an observer with a few data points. Maybe the inbound to Boston the night before is why they need it.

I have also wondered about the capacity on that flight and the inbound from London. Maybe the cargo is also larger. I also tend to think that using older and paid-off aircraft tends to help with the profitability of that rotation.

iyerhari · Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:03 pm

I have traveled on that flight numerous times to BOM and it happens also to be the shortest flight in terms of overall times from BOS-LHR-BOM and reaches BOM in the afternoon vs. the very late night flights. In my experience, that I have traveled, it used to be a sold-out flight and is also more expensive than the regular BA late afternoon and evening flights. I have taken that flight in Nov and Dec timeframe so timing is important.

VS4ever · Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:17 pm

VS11 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Flying out of BOS this morning and just saw the morning BA BOS-LHR depart. Was a 744, though I know they’ve operated the 772 & 789 as well. How does this flight do overall for loads? Does the fact it’s a 744 in winter mean it’s typically a busy flight?

I've been on that morning flight three times, during the off season, twice in a 777 and once on the 787-9. In all cases the flights were only a little over half-full. A 744 on this rotation is a head-scratcher to me, but I'm just an observer with a few data points. Maybe the inbound to Boston the night before is why they need it.

I have also wondered about the capacity on that flight and the inbound from London. Maybe the cargo is also larger. I also tend to think that using older and paid-off aircraft tends to help with the profitability of that rotation.

Given we are BOS based, we always tend to look at things from BOS POS, however I think the answer lies in the other direction. this is the RON flight, which leaves LHR at 7.10pm, arrives at 9.40pm. So for your UK executive type person, you can manage 3/4 of a day of work (or a full day if you start early), get to airport, then jump on the plane to BOS, straight to the hotel and you are ready for the next day, so you don't actually miss a day. For BOS-LHR that flight lands at 6.50pm, so in effect you lose the day, so it's less appealing unless you are visiting London and don't particularly care about losing it, or have a connection from LHR with the late night departures. The early morning flight is timed to get in before the night curfew at LHR, otherwise you have to wait until 5-6pm the next day when there is already a flight anyway that arrives right on the button of 5am. Using the 744 for this or an older 772 makes more sense than a 789, if the loads are in the mid-range. Unfortunately there's little way of knowing how the individual flights are doing, unless BA only run a specific type on that flight in a month, that way you could pull it from the T-100's to see.

bagoldex · Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:55 pm

VS11 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Flying out of BOS this morning and just saw the morning BA BOS-LHR depart. Was a 744, though I know they’ve operated the 772 & 789 as well. How does this flight do overall for loads? Does the fact it’s a 744 in winter mean it’s typically a busy flight?

I've been on that morning flight three times, during the off season, twice in a 777 and once on the 787-9. In all cases the flights were only a little over half-full. A 744 on this rotation is a head-scratcher to me, but I'm just an observer with a few data points. Maybe the inbound to Boston the night before is why they need it.

I have also wondered about the capacity on that flight and the inbound from London. Maybe the cargo is also larger. I also tend to think that using older and paid-off aircraft tends to help with the profitability of that rotation.

In my experiences on the daylight flight they've usually had nearly full loads in Club but I suspect it's not so much about the outbound morning flight but the inbound flight the evening before which usually tends to be full in J and close in F. I should add that they use a high-J 744 so if it wasn't working out, they wouldn't waste that configuration on the route.

hinckley · Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:46 pm

chrisnh wrote:
I've been on that morning flight three times, during the off season, twice in a 777 and once on the 787-9. In all cases the flights were only a little over half-full. A 744 on this rotation is a head-scratcher to me, but I'm just an observer with a few data points. Maybe the inbound to Boston the night before is why they need it.

I have few real-world data points either, however what I have noticed is that when BA re-scheduled this flight to depart about 90 minutes earlier (from 9 am to 7:30 am iirc), it opened up a lot of connections on the LHR side. I fly TATL about six times a year, and when looking for a flight, I now see many BA night-time connections that were previously not available. That may have something to do with it, although a 744 is still a lot of airplane for a daytime TATL flight.

airbazar · Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:16 pm

Regardless of the POS, the late evening return is great because it allows for a full day of work in London.
I have taken the morning flight. It is IMO, the best way to get to London from BOS. The late arrival into LHR misses out on a lot of connections so I would expect Y to be less than full but I have connected in LHR from this flight by spending the night at a LHR hotel and i felt better than if I had taken a red-eye. I think the morning departures to Europe are hugely under-rated or miss-understood by a lot of the flying public.

hinckley wrote:
I have few real-world data points either, however what I have noticed is that when BA re-scheduled this flight to depart about 90 minutes earlier (from 9 am to 7:30 am iirc), it opened up a lot of connections on the LHR side. I fly TATL about six times a year, and when looking for a flight, I now see many BA night-time connections that were previously not available. That may have something to do with it, although a 744 is still a lot of airplane for a daytime TATL flight.

Agree completely. Didn't realize that the schedule had changed.

ramzi · Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:49 pm

I've taken the BA morning flight two times. Once the flight was very light, probably more than half empty even. The other time it was fully booked, not an empty seat in sight. All the other times I tried getting this flight it was more expensive than the evening options in every class. I think it works well for connections, but also is the only (or one of very few?) morning flight to Europe from Logan. I don't pay close attention, but most of the times I've looked it was a 86J 747. If you're looking for an upgrade to club, that's the right flight to pick.

I also regularly fly in on the last flight out of Heathrow, and that one is definitely almost always full. It was an 86J 747 each time I flew that route except for one recent flight in January, where it was still a 747 but 52J.

iyerhari · Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:09 pm

Rendering of BOS Terminal E - for a brief moment, it felt like some other airport - looks pretty clean.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/201 ... story.html

The article also states the addition of 6 new gates to be completed only by 2022. I do not know the timeline for the walkway from airport to Blue line T but Massport is doing a real good job keeping up with Logan needs.

chrisnh · Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:21 pm

iyerhari wrote:
The article also states the addition of 6 new gates to be completed only by 2022.

This will be AWESOME rolling through it in the wheelchair I'll most certainly have by then :lol:

hinckley · Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:56 pm

Wow. I'm impressed that Massport selected this particular design. But 2022? Maybe it's a typo . . . maybe it should have been a more believable 2032!

jworks158 · Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:28 pm

iyerhari wrote:
Rendering of BOS Terminal E - for a brief moment, it felt like some other airport - looks pretty clean.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/201 ... story.html

The article also states the addition of 6 new gates to be completed only by 2022. I do not know the timeline for the walkway from airport to Blue line T but Massport is doing a real good job keeping up with Logan needs.

That looks fantastic, can't wait to see the renderings showing how it is incorporated into the existing structure.

FGITD · Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:37 pm

jworks158 wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Rendering of BOS Terminal E - for a brief moment, it felt like some other airport - looks pretty clean.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/201 ... story.html

The article also states the addition of 6 new gates to be completed only by 2022. I do not know the timeline for the walkway from airport to Blue line T but Massport is doing a real good job keeping up with Logan needs.

That looks fantastic, can't wait to see the renderings showing how it is incorporated into the existing structure.

some time ago I saw (i think on here as a matter of fact) the full render.

basically that structure would be connected to the old terminal at E12, and would go from there to the UPS hard stands. It would require a rework of the roadways, removal of some structures, and would be an absolutely gargantuan expansion.

It would also basically function as it's own terminal. New curbside, new check-in, TSA, CBP, lounges etc.

Which makes me wonder if it would even remain part of E. Maybe a terminal F, or E2?

Either way, very exciting future in store.

NickolayAv · Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:11 am

Wow, the Terminal E rendering looks amazing. Is it known when they will be allowed to start construction?

RL757PVD · Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:48 am

What’s the price tag up to? I’m guessing in the $500,000,000 range .... that’s going to add $10-15 per international enplanement.

It’s definitely needed but it’s also definitely going to make anything natrowbody and low cost, cost prohibitive

chrisnh · Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:58 am

NickolayAv wrote:
Wow, the Terminal E rendering looks amazing. Is it known when they will be allowed to start construction?

Probably once the residents in East Boston put down their signs and pitchforks.

airbazar · Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:03 am

iyerhari wrote:
The article also states the addition of 6 new gates to be completed only by 2022.

Only? That's only 4 years from now for a project that hasn't even been launched. I hope it happens that fast.

B752OS · Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:06 am

RL757PVD wrote:
What’s the price tag up to? I’m guessing in the $500,000,000 range .... that’s going to add $10-15 per international enplanement.

It’s definitely needed but it’s also definitely going to make anything natrowbody and low cost, cost prohibitive

Massport will be investing $750 million into Logan modernization. Are you suggesting that airlines airlines who fly narrow-body planes will either cut service, or think twice about adding service?

NickolayAv · Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:38 am

Did Boston Globe edit the article and take out the renderings, because I just opened it and couldn't find the renderings anymore?

iyerhari · Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:27 am

airbazar wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
The article also states the addition of 6 new gates to be completed only by 2022.

Only? That's only 4 years from now for a project that hasn't even been launched. I hope it happens that fast.

Ha-Ha. The only reason there is a high degree of confidence is because Massport has practically delivered all projects they have embarked until now.

But I will definitely say that the current Terminal E flow of passengers and dedicated lines for citizens, GC holders has been much better than the old place. Traffic does flow better in the 4 times I used Terminal E after the enhancements were done. The further improvements will also help the flow better IMO.

Does anyone remember the times when Ed King (the former Mass Governor who was Massport CEO) was? I have read articles on Google on the times where he significantly improved the footprint of Logan. Just wanted to hear first-hand from folks who were there at that time.

NickolayAv wrote:
Did Boston Globe edit the article and take out the renderings, because I just opened it and couldn't find the renderings anymore?

Yes, they yanked it out from the article - probably Massport may have raised objections. I will send an email to the article editor asking him and will let the group know.

gatibosgru · Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:49 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Flying out of BOS this morning and just saw the morning BA BOS-LHR depart. Was a 744, though I know they’ve operated the 772 & 789 as well. How does this flight do overall for loads? Does the fact it’s a 744 in winter mean it’s typically a busy flight?

My boss flew out last week and had the entire back of the plane to himself. He said at least the last 10 rows were totally empty. Might just be that day though.

RL757PVD · Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:14 am

B752OS wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
What’s the price tag up to? I’m guessing in the $500,000,000 range .... that’s going to add $10-15 per international enplanement.

It’s definitely needed but it’s also definitely going to make anything natrowbody and low cost, cost prohibitive

Massport will be investing $750 million into Logan modernization. Are you suggesting that airlines airlines who fly narrow-body planes will either cut service, or think twice about adding service?

Both with regards to international narrowbody. Assuming the international carriers bear the burden (I cant imagine an airline like WN or NK or even UA wanting any of their costs to go up for a Terminal E project).

If such an expensive project is allocated to the international carriers even at 0% interest and 10 year period, that's $15 per enplanement using 5 million international enplanements. Ive heard the number is currently floating around $25, meaning it would increase to $40.

A narrowbody TATL flight costs around $50,000 and the new costs would be just under $8,000, that's a pretty heft percentage

B752OS · Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:17 am

http://www.massport.com/media/2704/0118 ... ermark.pdf

See from slides 119 and on. Massport has plans to add 4 new gates - 2 in Terminal B and 2 in Terminal C. Also some details on the B to C connector as well as roadway enhancements.

fastmover · Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:39 am

B752OS wrote:
http://www.massport.com/media/2704/01182018-board-meeting-_-visual-materials_website_watermark.pdf

See from slides 119 and on. Massport has plans to add 4 new gates - 2 in Terminal B and 2 in Terminal C. Also some details on the B to C connector as well as roadway enhancements.

Once the B/C connector is done will those be JetBlue gates again?

B752OS · Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:45 am

fastmover wrote:
B752OS wrote:
http://www.massport.com/media/2704/01182018-board-meeting-_-visual-materials_website_watermark.pdf

See from slides 119 and on. Massport has plans to add 4 new gates - 2 in Terminal B and 2 in Terminal C. Also some details on the B to C connector as well as roadway enhancements.

Once the B/C connector is done will those be JetBlue gates again?

Not sure what will happen with them. It looks like the plan right now is to have WN leave their 5 gates in A for 5 in the old AA side of B. During the construction of the B-C connector AS will be moving to 2 gates in the old AA side of B. So I am not sure if that will be their future home? Or if they'll move back to C 41-42. Massport will be adding a new gate in this connector, C 43. My guess is that B6 gets at least 1 new gate in this area, they're also getting a new gate over in the pier of C where they're making upgrade to the concession and bathrooms. Per Massport construction is supposed to beging in June 2019, so we'll probably have more information once that comes out.

VS4ever · Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:34 am

B752OS wrote:
http://www.massport.com/media/2704/01182018-board-meeting-_-visual-materials_website_watermark.pdf

See from slides 119 and on. Massport has plans to add 4 new gates - 2 in Terminal B and 2 in Terminal C. Also some details on the B to C connector as well as roadway enhancements.

Well this was what we have been waiting for, at least some answers to many of the questions. When is the move. June 19, WN is not going to grow above 5 gates, meaning they will cap themselves at between 50 and 55 departures a day. AS/VX and SY are moving back to B (although i don't see where SY are going in Pier B), AS/VX are capped at 2 gates, meaning max of 20 departures a day, but given they are pretty much all transcons, not sure that will ever be hit.
Loving the changes to C, it desperately needs it, although I have to say, going reverse by being dropped off at arrivals in the am and departures at night, definitely avoids the general nightmare of that terminal. Highly unlikely Phase I of E will be completed by 2022, but you never know. They need those extra 4 gates though. That could allow around 16-20 flights a day. One thing I notice, appears to be no movement of TP or EI back to E out of this and I guess 9K is always going to stay at C27, even though really they might be better suited at C40 or C42, might be a spacing issue, especially when they put C43.
The question is, whether those extra B gates will allow someone like F9 in the door or be used for expansion. And that gate over by the rest rooms, isn't that going to get blocked when the EI 330 turns up?

At least the picture is finally becoming clear. Although i partly agree with RL757PVD, the cost burden will be very interesting for that.

Anybody see the obvious age of the photo in slide 122?...

The agenda for tomorrow includes the FY18-22 Capital plan, that will include timing for the E expansions and proposed costs along with all the other projects they intend to do/thinking about. That will certainly give us a bit more info about Massport life

aaflyer777 · Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:17 pm

Not sure if its been mentioned or not but WN is joining the fray on BOS-TPA. Not sure when it starts or ends (I'm assuming its seasonal) but its definitely daily in April.

tlecam · Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:24 pm

I wonder what the plan is for gates B30 and 31. They are used by AA today, but the airline moves never address them. They just say that AA gates B32-36 are moving over to pier b.

PVD757 · Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:57 pm

Is there another source for monthly BOS passenger stats? Looks like they have stats posted through September only.

iyerhari · Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:05 pm

PVD757 wrote:
Is there another source for monthly BOS passenger stats? Looks like they have stats posted through September only.

Please send me your email address on chat and will send you the monthly stats from Massport. They compile the report fyi on third week of every month but it takes a very longtime to post it on their websites.

VS4ever · Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:35 pm

November - Domestic and August - International T'100's should be out later this morning. Fingers crossed EI will actually report properly this month as 2 abject failures for June and July. That's even with the fact that they report every single flight as a 332, even though we know SNN is a 752. They make QR look good.

airbazar · Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:37 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
B752OS wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Massport will be investing $750 million into Logan modernization. Are you suggesting that airlines airlines who fly narrow-body planes will either cut service, or think twice about adding service?

Both with regards to international narrowbody. Assuming the international carriers bear the burden (I cant imagine an airline like WN or NK or even UA wanting any of their costs to go up for a Terminal E project).

If such an expensive project is allocated to the international carriers even at 0% interest and 10 year period, that's $15 per enplanement using 5 million international enplanements. Ive heard the number is currently floating around $25, meaning it would increase to $40.

A narrowbody TATL flight costs around $50,000 and the new costs would be just under $8,000, that's a pretty heft percentage

Don't those costs get passed on to the consumer? I don't think anyone will notice a $10-$15 increase in their ticket prices. It costs $25 just to check a bag these days

There's a member on a.net from Florida who is known for consistently crying about how expensive MIA is for airlines to operate to/from and yet MIA has been one of the fastest growing airport in the country for the past decade. Moral of the story is, as long as there is huge demand from the local economy, and in New England we have that, an increase in passenger charge is not a huge deterrent.

Having said that it will be interesting to see if the costs do go up and by how much. So far airport improvements have been funded directly by Massport massive revenue sources and bond sales.

iyerhari · Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:14 pm

VS4ever wrote:
B752OS wrote:
http://www.massport.com/media/2704/01182018-board-meeting-_-visual-materials_website_watermark.pdf

See from slides 119 and on. Massport has plans to add 4 new gates - 2 in Terminal B and 2 in Terminal C. Also some details on the B to C connector as well as roadway enhancements.

Well this was what we have been waiting for, at least some answers to many of the questions. When is the move. June 19, WN is not going to grow above 5 gates, meaning they will cap themselves at between 50 and 55 departures a day. AS/VX and SY are moving back to B (although i don't see where SY are going in Pier B), AS/VX are capped at 2 gates, meaning max of 20 departures a day, but given they are pretty much all transcons, not sure that will ever be hit.
Loving the changes to C, it desperately needs it, although I have to say, going reverse by being dropped off at arrivals in the am and departures at night, definitely avoids the general nightmare of that terminal. Highly unlikely Phase I of E will be completed by 2022, but you never know. They need those extra 4 gates though. That could allow around 16-20 flights a day. One thing I notice, appears to be no movement of TP or EI back to E out of this and I guess 9K is always going to stay at C27, even though really they might be better suited at C40 or C42, might be a spacing issue, especially when they put C43.
The question is, whether those extra B gates will allow someone like F9 in the door or be used for expansion. And that gate over by the rest rooms, isn't that going to get blocked when the EI 330 turns up?

At least the picture is finally becoming clear. Although i partly agree with RL757PVD, the cost burden will be very interesting for that.

Anybody see the obvious age of the photo in slide 122?...

The agenda for tomorrow includes the FY18-22 Capital plan, that will include timing for the E expansions and proposed costs along with all the other projects they intend to do/thinking about. That will certainly give us a bit more info about Massport life

This is I what I believe looks to be the case based on the presentation:

1. Jan-2019 - complete AA consolidation. B1-3 AC, B4-B20 - AA/LUS consolidated on LUS side, B21 is a common use gate for UA and AA consolidated
B22-B29 - UA
During this timeframe, Southwest continues to operate from Terminal A
2. Jun-2019 - B32A,32, 33, 34, 35A, Southwest moves to Terminal B - DL gets all of Terminal A (WS continues to operate from A with 1-2 gates)
B35, B36 - AS,
B37, B38 - NK
C40 - SY

I agree with tlecam - B30 and B31 is free at this time. Maybe that may end up becoming a free gate for eventual use.
Terminal B to C connector implies passengers on OneWorld can use the B to C to E connector to walk to E to take an international flight. B6 passengers will continue to use C to E connector.

Please correct if I misstated anything.
I believe the next move once everything happens maybe Terminal A improvements which maybe Terminal A - B connector and who knows DL is able to flex the muscles to have immigration setup done at A.

VS4ever · Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:36 pm

iyerhari wrote:
Please correct if I misstated anything.
I believe the next move once everything happens maybe Terminal A improvements which maybe Terminal A - B connector and who knows DL is able to flex the muscles to have immigration setup done at A.

All correct, except for SY, they are moving to B Pier B, so likely candidates for B21 maybe? They are not stating who is potentially getting the C40-C43 corridor in the move round, plus 19A (the one across from the rest rooms. They could all be B6, which would really help them in the goal to get to 200 departures a day, given it looks like TP and EI aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

NickolayAv · Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:44 pm

VS4ever wrote:
They could all be B6, which would really help them in the goal to get to 200 departures a day, given it looks like TP and EI aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

I understand why EI wouldn't like to move to Terminal E, they would like to be with a major partner and they have preclearance so they don't need to use CBP, the only case for them moving to Terminal E is them having a lounge there, but the connector has made it easy to go between the lounge and their gates. TP I do not understand why they wouldn't move back to Terminal E.

iyerhari · Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:45 pm

VS4ever wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Please correct if I misstated anything.
I believe the next move once everything happens maybe Terminal A improvements which maybe Terminal A - B connector and who knows DL is able to flex the muscles to have immigration setup done at A.

All correct, except for SY, they are moving to B Pier B, so likely candidates for B21 maybe? They are not stating who is potentially getting the C40-C43 corridor in the move round, plus 19A (the one across from the rest rooms. They could all be B6, which would really help them in the goal to get to 200 departures a day, given it looks like TP and EI aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Ah - thank you - my mistake. Or SY could take gates B 30 or B 31 - they anyways have only two flights in a day - to MSP. Going by the looks, B Pier B is everyone minus B6, AA, DL and UA

tlecam · Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:27 pm

I wonder if B30/31 is the temp home for Virgin while the construction is done?

Another thing that intrigued me is the future Terminal B to A connector in one of the pictures.

In any event, if you're connecting from A to E ( or vice versa - sky team arrivals to/from delta domestic or something like that)in the future and walking the whole thing via these connectors, you'd better be in pretty good shape!!!

adamh8297 · Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:22 pm

tlecam wrote:
I wonder if B30/31 is the temp home for Virgin while the construction is done?

They are technically AS come April.

adamh8297 · Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:00 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
Not sure if its been mentioned or not but WN is joining the fray on BOS-TPA. Not sure when it starts or ends (I'm assuming its seasonal) but its definitely daily in April.

I saw that on the route map this morning and thought it would start with the schedule extension and didn't see anything in the extended months.

TPA appears to be growing for WN so maybe its a plane utilization route which makes sense.

VS4ever · Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:54 pm

Here's the BOS international snapshot for August from the T-100's

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B61t8 ... k9nYW1DRGM

All numbers as you can imagine look pretty good. SK did not do well with their switch to the 332 however, 2,000 more seats year over year and a mere 700 additional pax as a result. QR also slipped back a bit with just a 63% average load on the outbound leg, inbound however was packed.
DY (or DI as they will be eventually) continue to pack them in with 320 a flight and the Canadian airlines must be laughing all the way to the bank with the biggest loads out of BOS I think they've ever seen, bigger planes and an additional 8 pax per flight more year over year.

Some of the newer entrants:
CM increased to 93%
AV was 90%
UX 80%
MT increased by 5% to 85%
was also nice to see big increases for TK, AF and LH.

you can look through the numbers too, see if you want me to look up anything else for you, but outside of SK, nobody else did badly.

I'll start work on the more detailed reports in the next few days.

B752OS · Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:16 pm

iyerhari wrote:
This is I what I believe looks to be the case based on the presentation:

1. Jan-2019 - complete AA consolidation. B1-3 AC, B4-B20 - AA/LUS consolidated on LUS side, B21 is a common use gate for UA and AA consolidated
B22-B29 - UA
During this timeframe, Southwest continues to operate from Terminal A
2. Jun-2019 - B32A,32, 33, 34, 35A, Southwest moves to Terminal B - DL gets all of Terminal A (WS continues to operate from A with 1-2 gates)
B35, B36 - AS,
B37, B38 - NK
C40 - SY

I agree with tlecam - B30 and B31 is free at this time. Maybe that may end up becoming a free gate for eventual use.
Terminal B to C connector implies passengers on OneWorld can use the B to C to E connector to walk to E to take an international flight. B6 passengers will continue to use C to E connector.

Please correct if I misstated anything.
I believe the next move once everything happens maybe Terminal A improvements which maybe Terminal A - B connector and who knows DL is able to flex the muscles to have immigration setup done at A.

That sounds about right. You have to figure that come June 2021, all of the work in Terminal B will be complete, including the B-C connector and hopefully the work on phase 1 of Terminal E expansion is will over halfway done. Massport has a pretty good track record with its projects moving at a good pace. One other benefit of the Terminal E expansion is that phase 1 will have space for 3 new airlines clubs - I am going to guess this means all of the clubs still down on the lower level will be gone and that should open up more space for customs. I am curious what type of planes Massport has in phase 1 and 2 in the plans? I think it's a safe assumption we will probably never see 3 380s at E10-12 so it looks like there will be enough space to have a 332/333/772/77W/744 at E10-16 once phase 1 is done.

AviationAddict · Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:20 pm

VS4ever wrote:
SK did not do well with their switch to the 332 however, 2,000 more seats year over year and a mere 700 additional pax as a result.

Looking at their fleet they really do not have an alternative either, unless they can find a way to send the A32N. I hope they can figure something out.

NickolayAv · Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:23 am

Several questions. Does SK realistically have a good chance of really growing that market to make it profitable for them, because I imagine with such low LFs it can't be profitable? I've wondered if that market is large enough since it's launch on mainline. My neighbor flew on BOS-CPH and said the flight was empty and he had an entire row to himself.

Additionally, is it possible that Massport will consider making the new gates have 2 horizontal jetways to speed up boarding?

aaflyer777 · Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:02 am

SK's loads might improve a bit now that DY is off BOS-CPH, I think 2 carriers was just too much capacity for that route

bagoldex · Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:48 am

NickolayAv wrote:
Several questions. Does SK realistically have a good chance of really growing that market to make it profitable for them, because I imagine with such low LFs it can't be profitable? I've wondered if that market is large enough since it's launch on mainline. My neighbor flew on BOS-CPH and said the flight was empty and he had an entire row to himself.

Additionally, is it possible that Massport will consider making the new gates have 2 horizontal jetways to speed up boarding?

If they pack in a lot of cargo and fill the front of the bus it can be quite lucrative. That's generally how Swiss makes it in Boston. They do a huge cargo business and fill J and F with finance and pharma folks. It helps that the flights are short but in terms of economy, Copenhagen is a far cry from Zurich.

adamh8297 · Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:48 am

VS4ever wrote:
Here's the BOS international snapshot for August from the T-100's

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B61t8 ... k9nYW1DRGM

All numbers as you can imagine look pretty good. SK did not do well with their switch to the 332 however, 2,000 more seats year over year and a mere 700 additional pax as a result. QR also slipped back a bit with just a 63% average load on the outbound leg, inbound however was packed.
DY (or DI as they will be eventually) continue to pack them in with 320 a flight and the Canadian airlines must be laughing all the way to the bank with the biggest loads out of BOS I think they've ever seen, bigger planes and an additional 8 pax per flight more year over year.

Some of the newer entrants:
CM increased to 93%
AV was 90%
UX 80%
MT increased by 5% to 85%
was also nice to see big increases for TK, AF and LH.

you can look through the numbers too, see if you want me to look up anything else for you, but outside of SK, nobody else did badly.

I'll start work on the more detailed reports in the next few days.

I noticed AM was in mid 70's on BOS-MEX but ran 738 entire month and had > 1000 more passengers for the month so like CM they are gaining a bit.

Jouhou · Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:24 am

bagoldex wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Several questions. Does SK realistically have a good chance of really growing that market to make it profitable for them, because I imagine with such low LFs it can't be profitable? I've wondered if that market is large enough since it's launch on mainline. My neighbor flew on BOS-CPH and said the flight was empty and he had an entire row to himself.

Additionally, is it possible that Massport will consider making the new gates have 2 horizontal jetways to speed up boarding?

If they pack in a lot of cargo and fill the front of the bus it can be quite lucrative. That's generally how Swiss makes it in Boston. They do a huge cargo business and fill J and F with finance and pharma folks. It helps that the flights are short but in terms of economy, Copenhagen is a far cry from Zurich.

The state's efforts to get the offshore wind industry rolling will likely soon help this route. If I remember correctly two of the projects proposed to the state are being made in partnership with Danish companies. It also will probably give a boost to Norwegians PVD routes to Europe.

adamh8297 · Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:17 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
SK's loads might improve a bit now that DY is off BOS-CPH, I think 2 carriers was just too much capacity for that route

DY dropping OSL will help too.

There's still 1 stop LCC competition on BIS-Scandinavia with WW and FI plus some connections on DY at LGW.

33lspotter · Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:20 pm

Back to the BA morning BOS-LHR flight: it has certainly been interesting to see the 744 going in the morning as BA238 as it has this winter. As my username might indicate, I tend to watch a fair number of 33L departures from my neighborhood in Cambridge, although the username was created when I lived in Somerville right near waypoint TEKKK and used to be able to watch departures from my living room and bedroom. Anyway, I used to specifically look for the BA 744s when they’d depart in the evening, whether it was 212, 214, or 202, as they are my favorite aircraft. This winter — for the most part — the only way to catch them departing is to see them on my walk before heading to work. It’s been awesome to have them flying during daylight hours, which is usually only the case with 212 during the spring and summer, but I will be looking forward to seeing the 744s as part of the deluge of evening international departures rather than the sole morning TATL movement.

NickolayAv · Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:44 pm

Interesting
https://www.kpf.com/projects/terminal-e-extension
It seems like this was the design of a company who wanted to do the terminal E expansion.
I really like their design actually.

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