RobertS975
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:12 pm

VS4ever wrote:
33lspotter wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
On another completely different topic - Can Logan handle parallel takeoffs and landings? I have seen the runways getting changed many times - how and when does ATC determine which runway to use? The reason I ask is I have mostly had my flights take the 15L/33R but on occasions have taken the 4L/22R that I believe goes through Winthrop. Appreciate any expert feedback.


4R/4L can and do handle parallel landings but I believe takeoffs are usually on 9 when that happens. I have been on aircraft as large as an A320 landing on 4L, and I was on a WN 737 last year that landed 22R, which is extremely rare for a jet. I have seen both 22R and 22L used simultaneously for takeoffs and landings, respectively, although I am not sure if I there are requirements as far as sequencing goes to make that happen — sometimes the majority of departures will go from 22R but a long haul flight to Asia will go from 22L, but I don’t think you can have parallel take offs from 22R and 22L because those departures both have to turn left for noise abatement right after takeoff.

The link another poster provided in terms of runway operations is pretty solid, but the one thing that grinds my gears is that it claims that 15R is used for landings as part of the SE configuration. 15R is hardly ever used for arrivals, probably less than 10% of the time in SE configuration in my observations — the SE configuration has departures from 15R and 9 but the majority of landings are to 4R. I know 15R has an offset localizer and so they don’t like to use it for arrivals but I am not sure why the document lists 15R arrivals as being part of a configuration when in fact that configuration uses a different arrival runway 90% of the time.


Not only do Massport publish their “how we operate”, they also publish (for jets only) all the arrivals and departures on which runways every month
Latest info is April 18 and can be found at this link
http://www.massport.com/media/2793/apri ... or-web.pdf


The use of the parallel runways for simultaneous landings can only be in VFR weather. The runways are not far enough apart to allow parallel simultaneous instrument approaches.
 
33lspotter
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:26 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
The use of the parallel runways for simultaneous landings can only be in VFR weather. The runways are not far enough apart to allow parallel simultaneous instrument approaches.


Not to mention 4L/22R doesn't have instrument approaches if I'm not mistaken.
 
RobertS975
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:29 pm

33lspotter wrote:
RobertS975 wrote:
The use of the parallel runways for simultaneous landings can only be in VFR weather. The runways are not far enough apart to allow parallel simultaneous instrument approaches.


Not to mention 4L/22R doesn't have instrument approaches if I'm not mistaken.


You are correct... no ILS, no approach lights on either end.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:22 pm

airbazar wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
It's O/D on the Boston side, on the NRT side there is a lot of connections. My friend flew on the flight recently and he said the majority of people were connecting to another place in Asia.

I'm pretty sure they connect on BOS's end too. JL was one of B6's first international partners. Second only to LH, I think.
http://blog.jetblue.com/our-newest-part ... -airlines/


Also AA and JL have a JV on this route so AA CLT/PHL/MIA/DCA/ROC/MDT/SYR flights can connect to it (though its not an easy connection until B to C connector is built). It also helps slightly for any ORD/DFW customer issues due to limited seats on the 789.

JL will never capture all local Boston-Tokyo traffic - too many loyal Skymiles and MileagePlus members in BOS.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:47 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
It's O/D on the Boston side, on the NRT side there is a lot of connections. My friend flew on the flight recently and he said the majority of people were connecting to another place in Asia.

I'm pretty sure they connect on BOS's end too. JL was one of B6's first international partners. Second only to LH, I think.
http://blog.jetblue.com/our-newest-part ... -airlines/


Also AA and JL have a JV on this route so AA CLT/PHL/MIA/DCA/ROC/MDT/SYR flights can connect to it (though its not an easy connection until B to C connector is built). It also helps slightly for any ORD/DFW customer issues due to limited seats on the 789.

JL will never capture all local Boston-Tokyo traffic - too many loyal Skymiles and MileagePlus members in BOS.

Bingo! Many of my colleagues who live in PIT, PHL take BOS to NRT or HKG. I do not know of any of DFW colleagues who take BOS as DFW already has a flight to both NRT and HKG. I do get your point on the seat capacity. I have asked them many times on the experience as I have not needed to connect at BOS and they have said, it is not ideal as they have to walk to Terminal E and redo security. But in their perspective, the walk is far easier than having to take a train at DFW or a long terminal walk at ORD.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:38 am

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-changes/

LY going 772 on BOS-TLV for winter. Around 60-70 seat increase.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:54 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279071/el-al-w18-boston-aircraft-changes/

LY going 772 on BOS-TLV for winter. Around 60-70 seat increase.

Thank you. Surprisingly only DL and UA fly to TLV from JFK and EWR, SFO respectively. Do we know if passengers from stations such as ORD, PHL, etc. use BOS to connect to TLV?
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:02 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279071/el-al-w18-boston-aircraft-changes/

LY going 772 on BOS-TLV for winter. Around 60-70 seat increase.

Interesting time to upgauge the aircraft, is it because they are retiring the 767?
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
jcarv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:07 pm

Yes
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:00 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279071/el-al-w18-boston-aircraft-changes/

LY going 772 on BOS-TLV for winter. Around 60-70 seat increase.


Will be alot better from a passenger experience perspective. Their 777s have seat back video and power ports in economy. The 767s were a blast from the past.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:03 pm

iyerhari wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279071/el-al-w18-boston-aircraft-changes/

LY going 772 on BOS-TLV for winter. Around 60-70 seat increase.

Thank you. Surprisingly only DL and UA fly to TLV from JFK and EWR, SFO respectively. Do we know if passengers from stations such as ORD, PHL, etc. use BOS to connect to TLV?


Or connect in Europe. That's what I did when flying to TLV last October (with TK).
 
Kno
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:12 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279071/el-al-w18-boston-aircraft-changes/

LY going 772 on BOS-TLV for winter. Around 60-70 seat increase.


Interesting, quite an upgauge. I wonder where they'll park it. Right now they park the 767 on one of the gates that is in the c-e connector but I don't think those gates handle anything larger and are often used for jetblues international operations. The terminal is very full at that time.
 
hinckley
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:16 pm

Well that's a nice surprise. It seemed as though the TLV-BOS flight was a bit of a consolation prize as LY had little else to do with a spare 767. Hopefully the route has now earned its place. The 772 is both a nice up-gauge and a nice upgrade.
Last edited by hinckley on Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:25 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279071/el-al-w18-boston-aircraft-changes/

LY going 772 on BOS-TLV for winter. Around 60-70 seat increase.

Thank you. Surprisingly only DL and UA fly to TLV from JFK and EWR, SFO respectively. Do we know if passengers from stations such as ORD, PHL, etc. use BOS to connect to TLV?


Or connect in Europe. That's what I did when flying to TLV last October (with TK).


I've heard older generations like LY, younger generations like TK or any Euro Carrier.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:35 pm

Does anyone have the LFs for the LY flight from BOS?
Also, the change means LY will have first-class flying to BOS, the 767 did not have first.
If the 767s are getting retired could this just be the placeholder until the airline starts receiving 787-8s?
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:47 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279071/el-al-w18-boston-aircraft-changes/

LY going 772 on BOS-TLV for winter. Around 60-70 seat increase.


Wonder how long this route will stay only 3x weekly. Thought by now they'd be up to at least 4x weekly.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:27 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
Does anyone have the LFs for the LY flight from BOS?
Also, the change means LY will have first-class flying to BOS, the 767 did not have first.
If the 767s are getting retired could this just be the placeholder until the airline starts receiving 787-8s?


El Al's "first class" is worse than just about any business class on any airline. It's a joke. It's 2-2-2 while most business class products these days are 1-2-1. Any other airline would call this seat business class.

The only good long-haul premium product they have is on the 787s.

Looks the 777 comes from MIA, which gets the 789 that was supposed to go to SFO, but SFO has been postponed.
a.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:45 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Does anyone have the LFs for the LY flight from BOS?
Also, the change means LY will have first-class flying to BOS, the 767 did not have first.
If the 767s are getting retired could this just be the placeholder until the airline starts receiving 787-8s?


El Al's "first class" is worse than just about any business class on any airline. It's a joke. It's 2-2-2 while most business class products these days are 1-2-1. Any other airline would call this seat business class.

The only good long-haul premium product they have is on the 787s.

Looks the 777 comes from MIA, which gets the 789 that was supposed to go to SFO, but SFO has been postponed.

Is the 767 being retired the reason why they're switching?
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
MAH4546
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:48 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Does anyone have the LFs for the LY flight from BOS?
Also, the change means LY will have first-class flying to BOS, the 767 did not have first.
If the 767s are getting retired could this just be the placeholder until the airline starts receiving 787-8s?


El Al's "first class" is worse than just about any business class on any airline. It's a joke. It's 2-2-2 while most business class products these days are 1-2-1. Any other airline would call this seat business class.

The only good long-haul premium product they have is on the 787s.

Looks the 777 comes from MIA, which gets the 789 that was supposed to go to SFO, but SFO has been postponed.

Is the 767 being retired the reason why they're switching?


Definitely has something to do with it. I think the only 767 long-haul route left after the Logan switch is Toronto.
a.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:09 pm

So if DL is adding an MSP-ICN flight ... does that lower our chances of getting one. They even are going to have the Delta One suites.

http://www.startribune.com/delta-plans- ... 485382501/
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:33 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
So if DL is adding an MSP-ICN flight ... does that lower our chances of getting one. They even are going to have the Delta One suites.

http://www.startribune.com/delta-plans- ... 485382501/

IMO, it looks most likely a KE flight with codeshare with DL. DL gets their gates in Terminal A sometime June next year. ICN has been a discussion topic for a longtime.
 
tjerome
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:47 pm

iyerhari wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
So if DL is adding an MSP-ICN flight ... does that lower our chances of getting one. They even are going to have the Delta One suites.

http://www.startribune.com/delta-plans- ... 485382501/

IMO, it looks most likely a KE flight with codeshare with DL. DL gets their gates in Terminal A sometime June next year. ICN has been a discussion topic for a longtime.


There would be little connecting traffic probably so KE would be the better carrier to operate the route.
The comments and opinions expressed here are my own.
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B752OS
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:40 am

MAH4546 wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Does anyone have the LFs for the LY flight from BOS?
Also, the change means LY will have first-class flying to BOS, the 767 did not have first.
If the 767s are getting retired could this just be the placeholder until the airline starts receiving 787-8s?


El Al's "first class" is worse than just about any business class on any airline. It's a joke. It's 2-2-2 while most business class products these days are 1-2-1. Any other airline would call this seat business class.

The only good long-haul premium product they have is on the 787s.

Looks the 777 comes from MIA, which gets the 789 that was supposed to go to SFO, but SFO has been postponed.


Curious, what's the reason for the postponement? Lack of aircraft? It's crazy that SFO lacked TLV service as recent as 2 years ago and now UA flies it year round daily on 77W and soon LY will add flights.
 
RKDFlier
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:52 am

Boutique Air is bidding against Cape Air on the EAS BOS-RKD route using Pc12's. There doesn't seem like local support for them going by the article in the local newspaper.
I never profesed to be perfict
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:17 am

RKDFlier wrote:
Boutique Air is bidding against Cape Air on the EAS BOS-RKD route using Pc12's. There doesn't seem like local support for them going by the article in the local newspaper.

Source?
Would be interesting to see Boutique Air expand flights from BOS now that they started service to Massena.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
RKDFlier
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:26 am

NickolayAv wrote:
RKDFlier wrote:
Boutique Air is bidding against Cape Air on the EAS BOS-RKD route using Pc12's. There doesn't seem like local support for them going by the article in the local newspaper.

Source?
Would be interesting to see Boutique Air expand flights from BOS now that they started service to Massena.
NickolayAv wrote:
RKDFlier wrote:
Boutique Air is bidding against Cape Air on the EAS BOS-RKD route using Pc12's. There doesn't seem like local support for them going by the article in the local newspaper.

Source?
Would be interesting to see Boutique Air expand flights from BOS now that they started service to Massena.


https://knox.villagesoup.com/p/cape-air ... ty/1755946
I never profesed to be perfict
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:38 am

Apparently EK will use the A380 on June 23.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:23 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Apparently EK will use the A380 on June 23.


Just another one-off? Or a test run before putting it on the route?
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:37 pm

[*]
pitbosflyer wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
Apparently EK will use the A380 on June 23.


Just another one-off? Or a test run before putting it on the route?


Another test run. I believe this time the plan is to treat it as any other EK flight. So a tow off and back to the gate.

Allegedly this was the reason they didn't switch equipment earlier. EK wants no tow, Massport isn't going to let one carrier block a gate all afternoon and evening. No guessing who's decision comes out on top there...
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:32 pm

EK dropped a pretty penny to help make the infrastructure grand there. You’d think Massport could acquiesce here.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:47 pm

chrisnh wrote:
EK dropped a pretty penny to help make the infrastructure grand there. You’d think Massport could acquiesce here.

Yeah, but I can also see Massports perspective of losing a widebody gate for a majority of the day especially during peak hours will hurt them.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:14 am

chrisnh wrote:
EK dropped a pretty penny to help make the infrastructure grand there. You’d think Massport could acquiesce here.



The problem is that it's not Massport who suffers any consequence. It's every other carrier who is now holding (even longer) because EK bought a gate. At that point, what's stopping say, VS from investing in upgrading E8, and demanding that it be available whenever they need. Then the whole common use terminal falls apart. Small carriers get pushed out in that case
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:06 am

FGITD wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
EK dropped a pretty penny to help make the infrastructure grand there. You’d think Massport could acquiesce here.



The problem is that it's not Massport who suffers any consequence. It's every other carrier who is now holding (even longer) because EK bought a gate. At that point, what's stopping say, VS from investing in upgrading E8, and demanding that it be available whenever they need. Then the whole common use terminal falls apart. Small carriers get pushed out in that case


I agree, just not enough gates to be able to do that, even with the planned extensions i still don’t see them being able to allocate gates that way.

On the subject of hold times, as we almost at the height of summer, how bad have they been this year so far?
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
ramzi
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:55 pm

Slightly random, but are any other airlines allowed to use the EK lounge? I'm wondering if for example JetBlue Mint passengers could be allowed to use it at certain hours of the day? Comparing its utilization rate to the BA and LH lounges is a little crazy. Also, what is going on with the small security check point near the Terminal C connector? I have gone there twice in the last couple of months only to find it closed.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
johhn14
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:50 pm

ramzi wrote:
Slightly random, but are any other airlines allowed to use the EK lounge? I'm wondering if for example JetBlue Mint passengers could be allowed to use it at certain hours of the day? Comparing its utilization rate to the BA and LH lounges is a little crazy. Also, what is going on with the small security check point near the Terminal C connector? I have gone there twice in the last couple of months only to find it closed.
No is the short answer

There are a couple Priority Pass lounges in E and one in C that B6 passengers could use if they have the access.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:43 am

chrisnh wrote:
EK dropped a pretty penny to help make the infrastructure grand there. You’d think Massport could acquiesce here.

Did they? I know they supposedly committed to fly the A380 here hence why Massport went ahead and invested in the infrastructure but do we know for a fact that EK actually contributed any money to the project? As far as I know all terminal E gates are common use gates.
 
hinckley
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:48 pm

airbazar wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
EK dropped a pretty penny to help make the infrastructure grand there. You’d think Massport could acquiesce here.

Did they? I know they supposedly committed to fly the A380 here hence why Massport went ahead and invested in the infrastructure but do we know for a fact that EK actually contributed any money to the project? As far as I know all terminal E gates are common use gates.

I presume chris is referring the the money EK spent to build its new Term E lounge.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:46 pm

    hinckley wrote:
    airbazar wrote:
    chrisnh wrote:
    EK dropped a pretty penny to help make the infrastructure grand there. You’d think Massport could acquiesce here.

    Did they? I know they supposedly committed to fly the A380 here hence why Massport went ahead and invested in the infrastructure but do we know for a fact that EK actually contributed any money to the project? As far as I know all terminal E gates are common use gates.

    I presume chris is referring the the money EK spent to build its new Term E lounge.


    Yes, I was referring to the lounge. But they did that work on their own initiative, regardless of the kind of plane pulling up to or leaving from the gate. I’m kind of intrigued that the decision on the A380 hinged on a towing issue.
     
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    tlecam
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    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:22 am

    Does anyone have any insights about how BOS-SFO is doing on DL? A colleague flew it recently and asked one of the employees (pilot? FA? GA? Not sure which) about it. Said that the double daily 757 was a lot of capacity to start but that the economics are improving and that the front of the plane does very well.
    BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
     
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    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:21 am

    If EK does choose to fly the A380 regularly to BOS could that convince Massport to purchase deicing equipment for A380 to try to lure year-round flights from BA and EK?
    "If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
     
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    adamh8297
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    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:26 am

    Article on LEVEL and BOS-BCN.

    https://www.cerodosbe.com/es/transporte ... 1_102.html

    Need to translate with google but for March-May 93% LF on the route. Also mentioned a 374% increase - not clear if that was comparing to S4 BOS-PDL-BCN last year or an O+D number.

    tlecam wrote:
    Does anyone have any insights about how BOS-SFO is doing on DL? A colleague flew it recently and asked one of the employees (pilot? FA? GA? Not sure which) about it. Said that the double daily 757 was a lot of capacity to start but that the economics are improving and that the front of the plane does very well.


    These were Loads for the first three months of 2018

    Jan - 59%
    Feb - 61%
    Mar - 81%
    Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN

    2018 Flights: B6 BOS-BGI-BOS, WN BOS-MDW-BOS, B6 BOS-PDX-BOS
     
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    VS4ever
    Posts: 1431
    Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:24 am

    BOS-BCN I guess proves if you build it, they
    Will come..
    Tonight is a mess. Currently sitting In the cell phone lot waiting for my wife’s flight up from LGA, but there’s ground stops and backlogs all over the place due to the storms.
    That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
     
    FGITD
    Posts: 287
    Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:51 am

    NickolayAv wrote:
    If EK does choose to fly the A380 regularly to BOS could that convince Massport to purchase deicing equipment for A380 to try to lure year-round flights from BA and EK?



    Deicing in Boston is handled by ground handlers. Emirates ramp handling is done by a company called Dnata, which I think is actually directly owned by EK. As far as I know, they don't offer any deicing, let alone a380 capable. Deicing trucks tend to be extremely expensive, and somewhat unreliable (therefore even more expensive)

    So to convince a handler to buy them is going to take a lot more than a couple flights a week, even year round.
     
    User avatar
    AviationAddict
    Posts: 685
    Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 am

    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:23 pm

    FGITD wrote:
    NickolayAv wrote:
    If EK does choose to fly the A380 regularly to BOS could that convince Massport to purchase deicing equipment for A380 to try to lure year-round flights from BA and EK?



    Deicing in Boston is handled by ground handlers. Emirates ramp handling is done by a company called Dnata, which I think is actually directly owned by EK. As far as I know, they don't offer any deicing, let alone a380 capable. Deicing trucks tend to be extremely expensive, and somewhat unreliable (therefore even more expensive)

    So to convince a handler to buy them is going to take a lot more than a couple flights a week, even year round.


    The trucks themselves really aren't the major issue but rather it is the deicing fluid. The fluid is incredibly expensive (Type 1 ranges from about $20-$60 per gallon, Type 4 is even more expensive and both are required for 139 ops) and it has a limited shelf life of about 12 months. Ground handlers have to preorder the fluid based solely on expected needs. If the winter is mild and the handlers do not use all the fluid whatever is left over needs to be tossed and it's basically like dumping money down the drain. While the trucks are expensive to buy (anywhere from about $300K-$1.5MM) they should last for a couple of decades if well maintained. On the other hand, spending millions of dollars a year on deicing fluid - a good chunk of which will never be used - adds up quickly.

    Another major hurdle is training the staff to device properly. It's a tough job on a normal sized aircraft but I'd imagine it is doubly so on something like an A380.
     
    tjerome
    Posts: 243
    Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:06 pm

    tlecam wrote:
    Does anyone have any insights about how BOS-SFO is doing on DL? A colleague flew it recently and asked one of the employees (pilot? FA? GA? Not sure which) about it. Said that the double daily 757 was a lot of capacity to start but that the economics are improving and that the front of the plane does very well.


    Like some of the other business-oriented routes that DL started recently, there is some fluctuation in the middle of the week, but more often that not they are doing good on BOS-SFO in terms of load factor.
    The comments and opinions expressed here are my own.
    My FlightMemory
     
    tphuang
    Posts: 1366
    Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:18 pm

    tjerome wrote:
    more often that not they are doing good on BOS-SFO in terms of load factor.


    Just curious, what do you consider good load factor? BTS would show they have quite a bit lower LF than other carriers

    Here is Q4.
    BOSSFO
    VX,58357,72281,80.74%
    DL,30058,40760,73.74%
    UA,169360,191562,88.41%
    B6,88590,110028,80.52%

    and this is Q1
    BOSSFO
    VX,39078,47833,81.70%
    B6,103711,123024,84.30%
    UA,120725,140514,85.92%
    DL,20464,29767,68.75%
     
    hinckley
    Posts: 394
    Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:53 pm

    tphuang wrote:
    tjerome wrote:
    more often that not they are doing good on BOS-SFO in terms of load factor.


    Just curious, what do you consider good load factor? BTS would show they have quite a bit lower LF than other carriers

    Is an LF of 15 - 17 points below UA (which has major hub at SFO) really so bad on such a new route? I don't have that answer, but it doesn't feel horrible to me.
     
    airbazar
    Posts: 8515
    Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:26 pm

    AviationAddict wrote:
    The trucks themselves really aren't the major issue but rather it is the deicing fluid. The fluid is incredibly expensive (Type 1 ranges from about $20-$60 per gallon, Type 4 is even more expensive and both are required for 139 ops) and it has a limited shelf life of about 12 months. Ground handlers have to preorder the fluid based solely on expected needs. If the winter is mild and the handlers do not use all the fluid whatever is left over needs to be tossed and it's basically like dumping money down the drain. While the trucks are expensive to buy (anywhere from about $300K-$1.5MM) they should last for a couple of decades if well maintained. On the other hand, spending millions of dollars a year on deicing fluid - a good chunk of which will never be used - adds up quickly.

    Another major hurdle is training the staff to device properly. It's a tough job on a normal sized aircraft but I'd imagine it is doubly so on something like an A380.

    Does the A380 require some super special deicing fluid? My guess is no. So the cost of deicing fluid is a non-issue.
    The real issue is the lack of a truck that is capable of deicing an A380.
     
    User avatar
    chrisnh
    Posts: 3901
    Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:37 pm

    Another possible issue in the winter is snowbank height along the taxiways. Logan has been described as challenging by BA A380 Guys so I can only imagine that snowbanks exacerbate that.
     
    FGITD
    Posts: 287
    Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

    Re: Boston aviation - 2018

    Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:20 am

    chrisnh wrote:
    Another possible issue in the winter is snowbank height along the taxiways. Logan has been described as challenging by BA A380 Guys so I can only imagine that snowbanks exacerbate that.


    A few years ago there was an LH 744 that ran a snow bank through one of the outer engines. Could be a problem with the 380, but the outboard engines hang quite high above the ground.

    Any of the handlers could easily get the 380 capable trucks and training, but it's really just an unnecessary expense for the time being.

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