[twoid][/twoid]

33lspotter wrote:

N766UA wrote:

747’s do not board from the upper deck. That’s an emergency exit door.

You’re correct — I misspoke. What I meant to ask was if these gates will enable 747s (and other wide bodies) to board with two doors on the same level as they do at places like LHR I believe (IIRC E10-12 at BOS are not able to board two doors on the same level because the angles don’t jive).

That's correct. The new, yet to be built bridges are designed so you can attach to 1L and 2L.

The new, already built gates are designed to board the a380, one bridge per deck.

The clear intention of the redesigned gates seems to be that despite being a common use terminal with "no gate preferences"....those 3 gates were indeed built for specific carriers. The lounge can still board directly, regardless of what type of aircraft is used, so why assign anyone else those gates?

Does anyone know who was the leader at Logan the pre B6 days? Was there a clear leader or was the market always cluttered like how we have now?

iyerhari wrote:

Does anyone know who was the leader at Logan the pre B6 days? Was there a clear leader or was the market always cluttered like how we have now?

I'm gonna guess it was AA, not sure if they ever officially called BOS a hub but it was definitely a large focus city

NickolayAv wrote:

chrisnh wrote:

Middle East down; I see no reason or optimism for EK to add a second flight or even to go to the A380. As for Central America, planes need to be bigger.

Give it more time to develop before increasing the size of the planes.

Well CM did go from 73G to 738 before adding the extra 4 weekly flights.
MEX is a different story though since its about to double in service.

Middle East could be a bit flat but we don't know how it shook out amongst the 4 carriers and we know LY doesn't have any connections beyond TLV.

iyerhari wrote:

BOS April-2018 numbers are out:
2018 total pax YTD: 11,887,401
2018 international pax YTD: 2,082,300
International pax as a % of domestic pax: 17.52%

Another good news - BOS has already overtaken MSP starting April-2018 and starting May onwards until Oct, is the busiest time for BOS. As per Massport, DL lead continues to grow over AA and by the end of the year, DL would have comprehensively overtaken AA in terms of market share. Just FYI, DL overtook AA for the first time in March-2018.

Addnl. stats for April 2018:9

Apr-18 Apr-17 % change
Domestic 2,886,449 2,643,312 9.20%

Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 115,651 126,856 -8.83% OUCH!
Canada 85,746 80,773 6.16%
Central America 23,539 17,262 36.36% WOW!
Europe 292,792 302,296 -3.14% Surprising??
Middle East 48,661 49,907 -2.50%
South America 3,449 - #DIV/0!
Trans-Pacific 43,162 42,369 1.87%
Total International 613,000 619,463 -1.04%

General Aviation 9,158 9,058

Total Airport PAX 3,508,607 3,271,833 7.24%

Enjoy!

When you get around to it, would you mind sharing the market share numbers? I’m fascinated by the DL/AA thing.

DOT approved B6's request to delay BOS-HAV but they have to start it by 11/10/18.

https://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf101/940.pdf

tlecam wrote:

When you get around to it, would you mind sharing the market share numbers? I’m fascinated by the DL/AA thing.

Massport unfortunately does not release the granular details - I somehow get some morsel of info with multiple requests.

aaflyer777 wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

Does anyone know who was the leader at Logan the pre B6 days? Was there a clear leader or was the market always cluttered like how we have now?

I'm gonna guess it was AA, not sure if they ever officially called BOS a hub but it was definitely a large focus city

,

Ask and you shall receive, the attached is based on the financial reports published each year since 2006, each report has a 9 year prior analysis, allowing me to go back to 1997. I have put the numbers in exactly how they were reported and the percentages calculated on known group combinations. AA = AA, US, TW, AW etc. Regionals are split and there is no way to tell which amounts apply to which major, so it can't be done.

Any questions, let me know, i have highlighted the %'s in 2000, 2005, 2010 and 2015, there are also year by year share movements and rolling 5 year.
It really shows how B6 took over as number 1 very fast and how the International growth by Non US Carriers has increased massively in the last few years.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

VS4ever wrote:

Ask and you shall receive, the attached is based on the financial reports published each year since 2006, each report has a 9 year prior analysis, allowing me to go back to 1997. I have put the numbers in exactly how they were reported and the percentages calculated on known group combinations. AA = AA, US, TW, AW etc. Regionals are split and there is no way to tell which amounts apply to which major, so it can't be done.

Any questions, let me know, i have highlighted the %'s in 2000, 2005, 2010 and 2015, there are also year by year share movements and rolling 5 year.
It really shows how B6 took over as number 1 very fast and how the International growth by Non US Carriers has increased massively in the last few years.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Thank you VS4ever - fascinating and thank you for pulling this together. Regionals could tilt the balance of the statistics but impossible for you to know the affiliation. B6 climb has been steady and also puts up a question as to why AA decided to scale back their operations in BOS. B6 came up to the top in 6 years in 2010 and has been growing steadily.

Thank you.

At the time JetBlue decided upon Boston as a focus city, the legacy carriers were rather lukewarm toward Boston...connecting just the cities they needed to, and little more. With no slot control, it wasn’t as though they needed to ‘protect’ Boston. That sort of ‘apathy’ gave rise to JetBlue, and here we are. I’ll also say that conventional wisdom bit the legacy carriers in the butt. That ‘conventional wisdom’ suggested that with a fortress at JFK, JetBlue would NEVER do something similar a mere 200 miles away.

So again...here we are

Thank you. The upward trajectory of B6 also coincides with the economic recession and IMO it affected the likes of DL, AA to protect their strongholds vs. expanding in a territory where they scramble. I really like the B6 story but even then BOS has never have been a single airline monopoly since the times we see the stats posted by VS4ever. That also probably explains why there is no major airline hub but the city is quite diverse with a solid economy that keeps it going.

When I think of a ‘Hub,’ I ask, “Do they fly planes in all four directions from that city.” I think the aforementioned push into Western Europe by JetBlue will definitely transition Boston from ‘focus city’ to ‘hub.’ (Canada notwithstanding).

Setting the WAYBACK machine...Northeast had a large presence before DL took over....

AviationAddict wrote:

I would think the first step would have to be the removal of the Gulf station/Dunkin Donuts. Is Massport planning to relocate the station somewhere else? That place is hugely popular with the livery drivers, the place is always packed whenever I drive by. I would think the owners wouldn't give up the business without a fight.

their hot chicken stir fry grinder is excellent. if you’re hungry and waiting to pick up a delayed friend, it’s not a bad place to spend a few minutes. that being said, it unfortunately needs to go.

I’ve been taking a long look at these plans and it’s very telling to be honest how Massport feel growth is going to come. Because really they now have the option of up to 8 gates not 4 (although wide bodies can only account for 4). Using the dual gate option really allows them to potentially expand the 321LR/ Max markets to Europe, although some of those sketchings show some really tight gaps between gates when the narrowbodies show up. And let’s face it with E1 essentially being handed over to B6 long term for their international ops, they will really only get a net increase of 3 WB gates.

Now here come all the questions.
1. Do EI/TP move back to E once this is done. If they do, that doesn’t help the expansion as all the planes will be on the ground at peak times as they need 3 gates
2. Is 1 E Gate enough for B6 to run a potential Euro schedule from along with some of their Caribbean routes
3. Where is the gas station going to go. As it’s definitely toast
4. Looks like the cell phone lot is here to stay but is that actually the plan in the end?
5. I know the big argument about the PFC having to go up as a result of this build, but assuming DI are still around by the time is this is finished, could they be persuaded to expand?
6. With all the extra real estate how could they figure out a plan to increase off peak gate utilization

Just some musings in my head about all of this.

Norwegian has cancelled many of their flights to/from CDG. Could this be a sign that this route will collapse, or just the usual 787 trouble?

rnav2dlrey wrote:

AviationAddict wrote:

I would think the first step would have to be the removal of the Gulf station/Dunkin Donuts. Is Massport planning to relocate the station somewhere else? That place is hugely popular with the livery drivers, the place is always packed whenever I drive by. I would think the owners wouldn't give up the business without a fight.

their hot chicken stir fry grinder is excellent. if you’re hungry and waiting to pick up a delayed friend, it’s not a bad place to spend a few minutes. that being said, it unfortunately needs to go.

Whoa - didn't know that!
Gotta pick up a friend Wednesday noon time - hot chicken fry lunch it in then!!!

ramzi wrote:

Norwegian has cancelled many of their flights to/from CDG. Could this be a sign that this route will collapse, or just the usual 787 trouble?

Im booked on one of the flights that was cancelled, Norwegian said it was due to engine inspections. Not very happy with them at this point, they basically said we’ll give you a refund or you can fly out 2 days later...

ASA wrote:

rnav2dlrey wrote:

AviationAddict wrote:

I would think the first step would have to be the removal of the Gulf station/Dunkin Donuts. Is Massport planning to relocate the station somewhere else? That place is hugely popular with the livery drivers, the place is always packed whenever I drive by. I would think the owners wouldn't give up the business without a fight.

their hot chicken stir fry grinder is excellent. if you’re hungry and waiting to pick up a delayed friend, it’s not a bad place to spend a few minutes. that being said, it unfortunately needs to go.

Whoa - didn't know that!
Gotta pick up a friend Wednesday noon time - hot chicken fry lunch it in then!!!

oh man, you had to go and make this a hard decision, I am dropping off Mrs. VS on the 13th and was planning on racing back home for 1/2 price burger night at my local bar (which is awesome by the way), now you made me think twice. Sadly, I don't see any comeback for it, the plans put the new terminal right in the middle of that space, so it's gone. where it ends up is anyone's guess, but filling up the rental cars just got a little more awkward for returnees if you forget.

airbazar wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

6. With all the extra real estate how could they figure out a plan to increase off peak gate utilization

Cheaper costs for off-peak usage? That should entice the TATL LCC's.

That's true, but do Massport actually offer that option? I just don't know and my initial research isn't clear as to whether that's feasible.

VS4ever wrote:

I’ve been taking a long look at these plans and it’s very telling to be honest how Massport feel growth is going to come. Because really they now have the option of up to 8 gates not 4 (although wide bodies can only account for 4). Using the dual gate option really allows them to potentially expand the 321LR/ Max markets to Europe, although some of those sketchings show some really tight gaps between gates when the narrowbodies show up. And let’s face it with E1 essentially being handed over to B6 long term for their international ops, they will really only get a net increase of 3 WB gates.

Now here come all the questions.
1. Do EI/TP move back to E once this is done. If they do, that doesn’t help the expansion as all the planes will be on the ground at peak times as they need 3 gates
2. Is 1 E Gate enough for B6 to run a potential Euro schedule from along with some of their Caribbean routes
3. Where is the gas station going to go. As it’s definitely toast
4. Looks like the cell phone lot is here to stay but is that actually the plan in the end?
5. I know the big argument about the PFC having to go up as a result of this build, but assuming DI are still around by the time is this is finished, could they be persuaded to expand?
6. With all the extra real estate how could they figure out a plan to increase off peak gate utilization

Just some musings in my head about all of this.

I would guess both EI and TP would make the move over to E once phase 1 is done. What club do their passengers use currently? I don't see how Logan is any different than the multitude of airports across the country in terms of massive expansions and renovations driving up carrier operating costs.


I'd like to see them eliminate the taxi turn-around and open that space up to the rest of terminal E. It seems like that could help expand food/shopping options for the E 1-3 area.

aaflyer777 wrote:

ramzi wrote:

Norwegian has cancelled many of their flights to/from CDG. Could this be a sign that this route will collapse, or just the usual 787 trouble?

Im booked on one of the flights that was cancelled, Norwegian said it was due to engine inspections. Not very happy with them at this point, they basically said we’ll give you a refund or you can fly out 2 days later...

Yeah, I can't say I'm too excited to fly them either. But interesting that BOS-CDG was one of their easiest to cancel.

airbazar wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Sadly, I don't see any comeback for it, the plans put the new terminal right in the middle of that space, so it's gone. where it ends up is anyone's guess, but filling up the rental cars just got a little more awkward for returnees if you forget.

True. However there are a couple of gas stations right by the long term garage.

B752OS wrote:

I'd like to see them eliminate the taxi turn-around and open that space up to the rest of terminal E. It seems like that could help expand food/shopping options for the E 1-3 area.

I have a feeling that the entire roadside layout for terminal E will change. The short term parking needs expansion. It's always full. They should convert it from a parking lot to a 2-story short term garage connected to the terminal above the roadway which would improve traffic flow.

Massport are investigating a ton of options on the parking front right now, if you look at around slide 106 onwards of the latest released presentation, it speaks to all their ideas, the simple response is that they have increased the cap on parking spots by 5,000, but they are going to do everything in their power not to build a ton more actual spots, and those will come at a price, they have also thought about reservation ideas and an APM so that they can build the spots away from Logan and have people arrive that way. LONG way to go, but it is definitely in discussion.
http://massport.com/media/2800/april-15 ... ermark.pdf

We can only confirm if/when it happens. Per Tim Clark, the 2nd flight to BOS may happen anytime soon. This is the peak season, so maybe it can happen soon.

https://skift.com/2018/06/05/emirates-p ... p-flights/

On another completely different topic - Can Logan handle parallel takeoffs and landings? I have seen the runways getting changed many times - how and when does ATC determine which runway to use? The reason I ask is I have mostly had my flights take the 15L/33R but on occasions have taken the 4L/22R that I believe goes through Winthrop. Appreciate any expert feedback.

iyerhari wrote:

We can only confirm if/when it happens. Per Tim Clark, the 2nd flight to BOS may happen anytime soon. This is the peak season, so maybe it can happen soon.

https://skift.com/2018/06/05/emirates-p ... p-flights/

On another completely different topic - Can Logan handle parallel takeoffs and landings? I have seen the runways getting changed many times - how and when does ATC determine which runway to use? The reason I ask is I have mostly had my flights take the 15L/33R but on occasions have taken the 4L/22R that I believe goes through Winthrop. Appreciate any expert feedback.

Definitely not expert feedback from me, but I have seen parallel landings onto 4 L and R.
This site http://www.massport.com/logan-airport/a ... -operates/ gives a pretty good idea of how the airport operates with runways, I live close to Logan, and I have seen them change the configuration many times in one day because the wind direction often changes because Logan is near the ocean.

airbazar wrote:

Someone posted this on a different thread:

Looks like SIN-ICN-LAX will be axed
First class bookings not available from 1 Dec 18
https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status ... 11232?s=21

To which I replied: "Door open for SIN-ICN-BOS"
To me this would make a lot of sense. We lack a *A carrier to Asia and ICN is also a *A hub.

Also the feed to both cities would probably be enough to have enough passengers for the flight.

iyerhari wrote:

We can only confirm if/when it happens. Per Tim Clark, the 2nd flight to BOS may happen anytime soon. This is the peak season, so maybe it can happen soon.

https://skift.com/2018/06/05/emirates-p ... p-flights/

In my view (and others, too) STC is losing some credibility with his statements. Whether it's resuming the SEA/BOS flights, tackling the topic of crew angst, or parking idle planes, he's got a habit of going against what our observations are telling us. Granted, he's running the ship and ought to know better than me. But he just seems to be playing loose with the chatter.

airbazar wrote:

Someone posted this on a different thread:

Looks like SIN-ICN-LAX will be axed
First class bookings not available from 1 Dec 18
https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status ... 11232?s=21

To which I replied: "Door open for SIN-ICN-BOS"
To me this would make a lot of sense. We lack a *A carrier to Asia and ICN is also a *A hub.

Fingers crossed. This would make a lot of sense and I hope SQ is seriously considering it. Would seem the like the perfect A359 route.

chrisnh wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

We can only confirm if/when it happens. Per Tim Clark, the 2nd flight to BOS may happen anytime soon. This is the peak season, so maybe it can happen soon.

https://skift.com/2018/06/05/emirates-p ... p-flights/

In my view (and others, too) STC is losing some credibility with his statements. Whether it's resuming the SEA/BOS flights, tackling the topic of crew angst, or parking idle planes, he's got a habit of going against what our observations are telling us. Granted, he's running the ship and ought to know better than me. But he just seems to be playing loose with the chatter.

I'm beginning to agree with this stance, he's made noises about returning the 2nd flight a number of times before, but nothing, and no upgrade to the A380 on the single flight either, hence Massport's white elephant of dual bridges for BA only right now.

I think he has to make these statements to give the impression that he has control and guidance to his organization, but in reality, the ducks are paddling as fast as they can and the planes can only fly so much on the poorer routes, add to that he has more capacity coming on line year after year (even with current deferrals) and he has to make noises such as this. EK is a very successful airline and for good reason, but all in the desert is not rosy and we need to remember that.

I have a quick question with a likely obvious answer . . . I recently flew JL7/8 to/from NRT (first JL flight and first 787 flight btw). Most of you know that the inbound flight arrives at 6:15 pm and sits on the ground until the return flight the next day at 1:30 pm. So why so long on the ground? An 8 pm departure would arrive in NRT around 11:40 pm. Is a slot not available at that time? And if that's the case, then why not an 8 am departure arriving in NRT around 11:40 am. This has got to be primarily an O&D flight, so connections can't be an issue, and certainly there would be morning departure slots available at BOS. Is there a slot issue on the NRT end?

Didn't JL re-time their NRT-BOS flights to connect better on the NRT end?

B752OS wrote:

Didn't JL re-time their NRT-BOS flights to connect better on the NRT end?

That actually makes a lot of sense. I hadn't thought about that.

For anyone interested, here are some videos.



1966:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCUZOYsomBA

1967:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnO5K-tnX6c

1968:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZllnGchhIdw

1968---freight dock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xnqTKf58gw

1969:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY6HtXR2zO0

1970:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa56z5iknFY

1974:
Footage not that good---despite the title, trip starts @ BOS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvV_NqjFrPQ



1976:
This 15 minutes....first 5 minutes here from the BOS NIMBYS
BOS picks back up around 10:38 to the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmxt3GINgiw


1976-driving around Boston:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrMWOdzrdxk


1991:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJjNVKi-zvM



Not sure of the date 2008-2010, I would imagine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF3GKObnYpg

hinckley wrote:

I have a quick question with a likely obvious answer . . . I recently flew JL7/8 to/from NRT (first JL flight and first 787 flight btw). Most of you know that the inbound flight arrives at 6:15 pm and sits on the ground until the return flight the next day at 1:30 pm. So why so long on the ground? An 8 pm departure would arrive in NRT around 11:40 pm. Is a slot not available at that time? And if that's the case, then why not an 8 am departure arriving in NRT around 11:40 am. This has got to be primarily an O&D flight, so connections can't be an issue, and certainly there would be morning departure slots available at BOS. Is there a slot issue on the NRT end?

It's O/D on the Boston side, on the NRT side there is a lot of connections. My friend flew on the flight recently and he said the majority of people were connecting to another place in Asia.

NickolayAv wrote:

It's O/D on the Boston side, on the NRT side there is a lot of connections. My friend flew on the flight recently and he said the majority of people were connecting to another place in Asia.

That makes complete sense. Thanks.

I flew BOS-NRT-HAN in J over Thanksgiving. Super easy connection and much better service than CX. So yes, connections matter.

iyerhari wrote:

On another completely different topic - Can Logan handle parallel takeoffs and landings? I have seen the runways getting changed many times - how and when does ATC determine which runway to use? The reason I ask is I have mostly had my flights take the 15L/33R but on occasions have taken the 4L/22R that I believe goes through Winthrop. Appreciate any expert feedback.

4R/4L can and do handle parallel landings but I believe takeoffs are usually on 9 when that happens. I have been on aircraft as large as an A320 landing on 4L, and I was on a WN 737 last year that landed 22R, which is extremely rare for a jet. I have seen both 22R and 22L used simultaneously for takeoffs and landings, respectively, although I am not sure if I there are requirements as far as sequencing goes to make that happen — sometimes the majority of departures will go from 22R but a long haul flight to Asia will go from 22L, but I don’t think you can have parallel take offs from 22R and 22L because those departures both have to turn left for noise abatement right after takeoff.

The link another poster provided in terms of runway operations is pretty solid, but the one thing that grinds my gears is that it claims that 15R is used for landings as part of the SE configuration. 15R is hardly ever used for arrivals, probably less than 10% of the time in SE configuration in my observations — the SE configuration has departures from 15R and 9 but the majority of landings are to 4R. I know 15R has an offset localizer and so they don’t like to use it for arrivals but I am not sure why the document lists 15R arrivals as being part of a configuration when in fact that configuration uses a different arrival runway 90% of the time.

33lspotter wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

On another completely different topic - Can Logan handle parallel takeoffs and landings? I have seen the runways getting changed many times - how and when does ATC determine which runway to use? The reason I ask is I have mostly had my flights take the 15L/33R but on occasions have taken the 4L/22R that I believe goes through Winthrop. Appreciate any expert feedback.

4R/4L can and do handle parallel landings but I believe takeoffs are usually on 9 when that happens. I have been on aircraft as large as an A320 landing on 4L, and I was on a WN 737 last year that landed 22R, which is extremely rare for a jet. I have seen both 22R and 22L used simultaneously for takeoffs and landings, respectively, although I am not sure if I there are requirements as far as sequencing goes to make that happen — sometimes the majority of departures will go from 22R but a long haul flight to Asia will go from 22L, but I don’t think you can have parallel take offs from 22R and 22L because those departures both have to turn left for noise abatement right after takeoff.

The link another poster provided in terms of runway operations is pretty solid, but the one thing that grinds my gears is that it claims that 15R is used for landings as part of the SE configuration. 15R is hardly ever used for arrivals, probably less than 10% of the time in SE configuration in my observations — the SE configuration has departures from 15R and 9 but the majority of landings are to 4R. I know 15R has an offset localizer and so they don’t like to use it for arrivals but I am not sure why the document lists 15R arrivals as being part of a configuration when in fact that configuration uses a different arrival runway 90% of the time.

Not only do Massport publish their “how we operate”, they also publish (for jets only) all the arrivals and departures on which runways every month
Latest info is April 18 and can be found at this link
http://www.massport.com/media/2793/apri ... or-web.pdf

AV going daily on BOS-BOG in winter per OAG thread extending it from the Sept/Oct run.

adamh8297 wrote:

AV going daily on BOS-BOG in winter per OAG thread extending it from the Sept/Oct run.

Is it known if they're planning to go daily year round?

Next month LATAM starts flights to GRU —- another S America add.

NickolayAv wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

AV going daily on BOS-BOG in winter per OAG thread extending it from the Sept/Oct run.

Is it known if they're planning to go daily year round?

Looks like it according to ITA. I got daily non-stops going from September all the way to June 5

In the WN thread someone posted that BOS is getting “hammered”. I was just curious what the history of WN at BOS is as far as amount of daily flights beginning high point and now. I would imagine that with the added get when they go to “B” they’ll be able to expand more.

tomaheath wrote:

In the WN thread someone posted that BOS is getting “hammered”. I was just curious what the history of WN at BOS is as far as amount of daily flights beginning high point and now. I would imagine that with the added get when they go to “B” they’ll be able to expand more.

Not sure about the first part of your note here, i just don't know, but the move to B, does not give them additional gate space, in actual fact Massport are building 2 new gates to allow them to fit where they want to go. and there's still only 5 gates, any further expansion will have to come out of some one elses pie.