NickolayAv wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

Interesting article in the Globe: http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/201 ... story.html

While the 2nd HQ Amazon headquarters speculation continues, possible that AMZN is gradually building this up?

I can see that happening. I would love to see the Amazon 767s in BOS but it's not likely.

The 767's are going to PVD right now, because the main Amazon warehouse is in Fall River, MA and it's better to truck stuff over from Green. So I think that will continue and expand, they doubled PVD's cargo count in the first month of operation and i am sure will increase further.
What we may see as a result of Amazon arriving either as an additional 1m sq ft or the HQ, is more flights to their appropriate operations centers such as SEA to handle the additional travel requirements.

Today is the last S4 A310 flight from BOS, going to miss seeing such an old plane.

Any news if or when EK will fly the A380 to BOS?

NickolayAv wrote:

Today is the last S4 A310 flight from BOS, going to miss seeing such an old plane.

I won't miss flying in it with 80's entertainment technology and really tight seats. I'm only 5'8"

Dieuwer wrote:

Any news if or when EK will fly the A380 to BOS?

I don't think they have mentioned putting a regular A380 to BOS. I would love to see it happen, but I think passenger numbers need to raise a little more before they bring the A380 here.

airbazar wrote:

I found its old style cushy seats far more comfortable than any of today's slimline seats. Of all the bad things S4 has going, the seats or the airplane are the least of it. The new A321 will be just as cramped, 31" pitch, and without any onboard entertainment.

Are there no entertainment screens on the new planes?
Also in this review onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/07/18/azores-airlines-business-class-a310-review/
The seats were described as "This seat has definitely seen better days, as the padding was so worn that it was uncomfortable to sit in. I could feel the metal bar underneath my seat."
Passenger reaction is described as "Not surprisingly, the people from the Azores were unfazed by the plane, while overhearing the reactions from others was amusing. “Oh my God, how old is this plane? Is this safe?”"

airbazar wrote:

hinckley wrote:

Sincere question - does any BOS airline come close to any of these airline/airport combinations for connecting traffic?

As far as percentages, I'd be curious. LAX is the largest O&D airport in the country. Wouldn't surprise me if its % of connecting pax is just as low as BOS.
As far as raw numbers, no BOS is nowhere near any of those. 10% of 38million divided by 365 gives us just over 10,000 connecting passengers per day at BOS.

The number quoted by Massport for July 16 to June 17 was 94.4% on 37.4m pax, giving us approx 2.09m connecting passengers per year and increased by about 275K over the equivalent period the previous year, which actually had a higher percentage of 94.8% on 34.9m pax. Page 130 of this document http://www.massport.com/media/2641/mpa- ... -final.pdf

NickolayAv wrote:

I don't think they have mentioned putting a regular A380 to BOS. I would love to see it happen, but I think passenger numbers need to raise a little more before they bring the A380 here.

You are correct, EK have not mentioned putting on a regular A380, although they are one of the 3 (EK,BA and LH) who had noted to Massport when the 380 compatible gates were built that they would be the ones bringing them. EK has an interesting issue. Right now they could bring the 380 in and add the capacity to the one flight a day, however they really want to go back to the double daily. If they do that, then adding a 380 into mix until those flights are at largely full capacity is overkill and not necessary. When they were running the double daily, there was enough business to support 2 77W's, but throwing the 380 into the pot would not have worked and would have reduced cargo capacity too. So they are in a tough spot, will we see an EK 380 eventually, yes probably, but for right now, nope, not going to happen.

Word is that the azores 321 will not be coming tomorrow. Not sure of the reason.

FGITD wrote:

Word is that the azores 321 will not be coming tomorrow. Not sure of the reason.

Will the A310 return?

iyerhari wrote:

Interesting article in the Globe: http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/201 ... story.html

While the 2nd HQ Amazon headquarters speculation continues, possible that AMZN is gradually building this up?

Not surprising. Boston is already home to one of the largest employment centers for Amazon for non-warehouse workers. I would rather see them grow their employment base to around 2,000 people in Boston than get HQ2.

hinckley wrote:

airbazar wrote:

In the big scheme of things 90% of BOS traffic is said to be O&D but there's plenty of evidence that the 3 big airlines at BOS are all doing a good amount of connections. Massport would have not gone to the trouble and expense of connecting B6's terminal to the International terminal, for no reason.

So let's look at what I think we'd all agree are US airline hubs -
AA - JFK, PHL, CLT, MIA, DFW, ORD, PHX
DL - JFK, ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC, LAX, SEA
UA - EWR, IAD, IAH, ORD, DEN, LAX, SFO

Sincere question - does any BOS airline come close to any of these airline/airport combinations for connecting traffic? As for B6, as I said in my earlier post, their partnership model could make it a connecting hub. But again, a sincere question - do you think that the percent of B6's connection traffic at BOS is as high as any of the above airline/airport combinations?

As mentioned, LAX has more O&D. Someone posted a list a couple years back, I believe it was 2014 numbers, that listed O&D and BOS was in the top 10. Airports like CLT and ATL see a massive amount of connecting traffic. As does MIA for routes to Central and South America to a lesser extent.

July T-100 report surfaced today, so i've pulled together the International route info for the the month before I compile the main reports, which will start updating in the next few days
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B61t8 ... k9nYW1DRGM - One Caveat, for the 2nd month in a row, EI have messed up their reporting, for the purposes of completeness I have used the June numbers in July, which i I know is bad, but as a snapshot it will work, I will have to wait until next month to see if they get updated.

Highlights:
Asia (capacity up 23.5%, pax up 19.5%, loads down 2.8%) - 83.9%
Caribbean (capacity up 18.4%, pax up 22.9%, loads up 3.3%) - 88.4%
Canada (capacity up 8.2%, pax up 9.2%, loads up 0.8%) - 82.5%
Central America (capacity up 10.9%, pax up 13.2%, loads up 1.7%) - 86.6%
Europe (capacity down 2.5%, pax up 0.5%, loads up 2.5%) - 85.2%
Middle East (capacity down 21.5%, pax down 18.0%, loads up 3.8%) - 89.7%
South America (no prior, 93.9% loads)
Overall average was 85.5% up 2.2% over 2016.
BOS-DXB - 93.6%
BOS-BOG - 93.9%
BOS-IST - 89.2%
BOS-DOH - 89.5%
BOS-LGW - 97.1%
BOS-PTY 93.4%
BOS-MAD (UX) - 62.4% (IB 74.2%)

More to come

Thanks for all the information VS4ever

VS4ever wrote:

South America (no prior, 93.9% loads)

Glad to see the load factors high up for this one especially with the expansion coming next year.

VS4ever wrote:

BOS-DXB - 93.6%

I wonder how much higher it needs to get to return to 2 daily or 1 A380

VS4ever wrote:

BOS-IST - 89.2%
BOS-DOH - 89.5%

Political problems haven't affected the loads as much as I thought they would

VS4ever wrote:

BOS-PTY 93.4%

Good with the increase in service, though will be interesting to see how they will cope with increased service to South America

VS4ever wrote:

BOS-MAD (UX) - 62.4% (IB 74.2%)

I am surprised UX will return with such low load factors. Also, I think both UX and IB is too much capacity for that route, not sure there is sufficient demand.

airbazar wrote:

"The number quoted by Massport for July 16 to June 17 was 94.4% on 37.4m pax, giving us approx 2.09m connecting passengers per year and increased by about 275K over the equivalent period the previous year, which actually had a higher percentage of 94.8% on 34.9m pax. Page 130 of this document http://www.massport.com/media/2641/mpa- ... -final.pdf"

I don't know who posted the above because the post seems to be screwed up, but thank you.
I thought I read 10% connections somewhere. I'm wondering if ~10% was referring to International passengers.
Page 62 of this document seems to indicate that international connections have a higher percentage than domestic.
https://www.massport.com/media/2480/072 ... ermark.pdf
Nevertheless 95% O&D sure is a lot.

That was me who posted the overall, however, looking at your 2nd reference you are under calculated. If we are saying 97% (and that's rounded) for domestic only,
Dom rolling 12 month to June 17 was 30,358,907, @3% that's 910,767 connecting pax. Per my above Grand total (including International) was 37,470,351 @5.6% = 2,098,340. So process of deduction. International Pax total was 6,999,572 and connecting was (2,098,340-910767) = 1,187,573, which is actually 16.97%. It would be interesting to know the breakdown of where they were coming from and going to, but it's unlikely we will ever see that, however I will say that the ancedotal evidence suggests they are going to Canada of all places because the Canadian numbers since all the international flights were added have gone through the roof. I have literally just run the numbers through July of 17 and the Canadian pax traffic is up a whopping 48.3% between aug14/jul15 and aug16/jul17. A coincidence, absolutely. That's not to say folks are not going elsewhere, they clearly are from other evidence that has been presented, but this one is by far the most obvious to me.

BOS is certainly a connection hub for DL, but obviously not a major one. Every time I deplane in BOS after a domestic flight, the GIDS display screen lists the connections from that arriving flight... you'll always see LHR, AMS, and CDG listed, and many of the DL Connection flights are listed...IND,ORF, etc.

NickolayAv wrote:

Thanks for all the information VS4ever

VS4ever wrote:

BOS-DXB - 93.6%

I wonder how much higher it needs to get to return to 2 daily or 1 A380

VS4ever wrote:

BOS-MAD (UX) - 62.4% (IB 74.2%)

I am surprised UX will return with such low load factors. Also, I think both UX and IB is too much capacity for that route, not sure there is sufficient demand.

Co-signed on the thanks!

- Concerning EK - we don't know how much "oversold" these planes are - that is key to knowing whether increase frequency or A380 is needed. Also, once these tickets get sold and few seats remain, EK's prices become higher and the price-sensitive folks take other options.

- I wonder is UX biggest problem is TP (soon to be LEVEL instead) though their business model mirrors G4's i.e.- package deals!

Other items I noted from looking at the month
- OSL/CPH did fine so DY must not want to deal with their own connections - its that simple.
- B6 Summer Caribbean did well BOS-PAP over 91% and >90% for BOS-BGI in its first summer.
- BOS-MAN on MT did well (89%) - VS not so much (<60%)

NickolayAv wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

BOS-MAD (UX) - 62.4% (IB 74.2%)

I am surprised UX will return with such low load factors. Also, I think both UX and IB is too much capacity for that route, not sure there is sufficient demand.

I'm kind of surprised IB hasn't managed to keep Boston going year round, to be honest. Anecdotally based on ticket prices I've seen, it seems like they're concentrating on the higher-fare local market and continuing to push connecting traffic primarily through LHR (and DUB, to a lesser extent). Would be nice to see them do BOS-MAD 3-5x weekly in the winter to build awareness and provide a year-round alternative for oneworld flyers who are primarily stuck transiting LHR. Seems like an easy route that IB could easily squash UX on if it really wanted to, given the strength of AA/BA in the BOS market.

A Delta 767 is parked in the FedEx area today.

An Interjet A320NEO is at E1.

jspams20 wrote:

A Delta 767 is parked in the FedEx area today.

An Interjet A320NEO is at E1.

That's 4O 2990 from MEX to JFK, which diverted to BOS due to weather, looks like it's on its way to JFK now and will be about 6 hours late in the end.

JRL3289 wrote:

NickolayAv wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

BOS-MAD (UX) - 62.4% (IB 74.2%)

I am surprised UX will return with such low load factors. Also, I think both UX and IB is too much capacity for that route, not sure there is sufficient demand.

I'm kind of surprised IB hasn't managed to keep Boston going year round, to be honest. Anecdotally based on ticket prices I've seen, it seems like they're concentrating on the higher-fare local market and continuing to push connecting traffic primarily through LHR (and DUB, to a lesser extent). Would be nice to see them do BOS-MAD 3-5x weekly in the winter to build awareness and provide a year-round alternative for oneworld flyers who are primarily stuck transiting LHR. Seems like an easy route that IB could easily squash UX on if it really wanted to, given the strength of AA/BA in the BOS market.

In 2016 they extended through the end of the year, only leaving Jan/Feb without service. UX is summer seasonal anyway, so shouldn't have an impact, they have their market and will take time to grow as they have limited recognition, but I do agree a 3x weekly in Jan and Feb might help IB a bit, if they can make enough money at it, March 17 loads (first month back after the break were 70%), which is no worse than many other routes at that point. Level's additional will be curious, as to whether BCN can be a big enough market for BOS and attract folks back from MAD or connecting elsewhere like LHR.

According to their wiki page it says BOS is a destination for BR Cargo. Did they ever serve BOS?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EVA_Air_destinations

clrd4t8koff wrote:

According to their wiki page it says BOS is a destination for BR Cargo. Did they ever serve BOS?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EVA_Air_destinations

The source given for them serving Boston seems questionable at best.

What it most likely means is that you can book cargo through EVA directly and with an EVA airway bill, but it will actually be processed and carried by a partner airline. So technically yes, it would be served by EVA....just not their staff or aircraft.

FGITD wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

According to their wiki page it says BOS is a destination for BR Cargo. Did they ever serve BOS?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EVA_Air_destinations

The source given for them serving Boston seems questionable at best.

What it most likely means is that you can book cargo through EVA directly and with an EVA airway bill, but it will actually be processed and carried by a partner airline. So technically yes, it would be served by EVA....just not their staff or aircraft.

Yep, I think that's right, I've done some sample checking in the T-100's and there's nothing about BOS under BR's code as freight.

Could be trucked from Boston down to JFK.

According to an Ireland wagering site, Boston sits only behind Atlanta and Austin to land Amazon. Both front runners sit at 3:1 with Boston at 7:1. Seen nowhere on the list are places like Raleigh or Charlotte, both of which I’d put above Boston. But...that’s why I stay home when my wife goes to Foxwoods.

chrisnh wrote:

According to an Ireland wagering site, Boston sits only behind Atlanta and Austin to land Amazon. Both front runners sit at 3:1 with Boston at 7:1. Seen nowhere on the list are places like Raleigh or Charlotte, both of which I’d put above Boston. But...that’s why I stay home when my wife goes to Foxwoods.

From the recent blizzard aka bomb cyclone - was the proposed site affected by storm surge.

Also does the Irish betting site refer to Greater Boston or just the East Boston site since Cambridge/Somerville put in their own bid as well.

FGITD wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

According to their wiki page it says BOS is a destination for BR Cargo. Did they ever serve BOS?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EVA_Air_destinations

The source given for them serving Boston seems questionable at best.

What it most likely means is that you can book cargo through EVA directly and with an EVA airway bill, but it will actually be processed and carried by a partner airline. So technically yes, it would be served by EVA....just not their staff or aircraft.

The source is definitely questionable, on Boston Logan's Wikipedia page it also claims that China Airlines Cargo, Eva Air Cargo, LATAM Cargo Chile and Saudia Cargo also fly to Boston, and in all my years of flying, and spotting I have never seen one of those airlines, I could be wrong, but I wouldn't trust Wiki so much.

NickolayAv wrote:

The source is definitely questionable, on Boston Logan's Wikipedia page it also claims that China Airlines Cargo, Eva Air Cargo, LATAM Cargo Chile and Saudia Cargo also fly to Boston, and in all my years of flying, and spotting I have never seen one of those airlines, I could be wrong, but I wouldn't trust Wiki so much.

To be clear, the sentence you're referring to says Logan has "cargo offices" for those airlines. That just means that the airline in question has some sort of regional sales/consolidating presence. Most of those offices aren't even on Logan property. Most of them will deal with sales between the airline and freight forwarders and will handle transporting cargo to their nearest cities (usually JFK) or, as in the case of those airlines listed that actually do serve the airport with their own passenger metal, belly freight.

LH423

hinckley wrote:

airbazar wrote:

In the big scheme of things 90% of BOS traffic is said to be O&D but there's plenty of evidence that the 3 big airlines at BOS are all doing a good amount of connections. Massport would have not gone to the trouble and expense of connecting B6's terminal to the International terminal, for no reason.

So let's look at what I think we'd all agree are US airline hubs -
AA - JFK, PHL, CLT, MIA, DFW, ORD, PHX
DL - JFK, ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC, LAX, SEA
UA - EWR, IAD, IAH, ORD, DEN, LAX, SFO

Sincere question - does any BOS airline come close to any of these airline/airport combinations for connecting traffic? As for B6, as I said in my earlier post, their partnership model could make it a connecting hub. But again, a sincere question - do you think that the percent of B6's connection traffic at BOS is as high as any of the above airline/airport combinations?

AA is the largest airline at LAX, it has a hub there.

And no, I don’t believe any BOS operation approaches the ones you mentioned, although there are hub operations with unusually high local traffic, mainly all the LAX and NYC ops, and AA at MIA. I bet UA at IAD is also very high proportion local.

LH423 wrote:

NickolayAv wrote:

The source is definitely questionable, on Boston Logan's Wikipedia page it also claims that China Airlines Cargo, Eva Air Cargo, LATAM Cargo Chile and Saudia Cargo also fly to Boston, and in all my years of flying, and spotting I have never seen one of those airlines, I could be wrong, but I wouldn't trust Wiki so much.

To be clear, the sentence you're referring to says Logan has "cargo offices" for those airlines. That just means that the airline in question has some sort of regional sales/consolidating presence. Most of those offices aren't even on Logan property. Most of them will deal with sales between the airline and freight forwarders and will handle transporting cargo to their nearest cities (usually JFK) or, as in the case of those airlines listed that actually do serve the airport with their own passenger metal, belly freight.

LH423

Thanks for clearing that up.


Also, some interesting information from Enilria on his thread today.
AC BOS-YVR increases
FI BOS-KEF will go to 4 daily during summer
DL added a lot of flights
UX has again dropped BOS, but this could be a misfile.

Interesting adds. The DL flights are mostly adding another flight to routes they already fly - JAX, PIT, MCI, BNA etc...

In some ways (e.g. Terminal A capacity) that’s good - if they fly 2x a day now, they’re probably adding an off peak flight. Interestingly, for DL, those are often early afternoon routes which connect to the international flights. I’ll have to look at what times they added.

Edit: I originally thought they already flew to CHS.

Here is what I could find from delta.com on the schedules

PIT 6:00 AM PIT 7:40 AM
BOS 8:05 AM PIT 9:55 AM
BOS 12:50 PM PIT 2:40 PM
PIT 3:10 PM BOS 4:50 PM
PIT 5:40 PM BOS 7:20 PM
BOS 8:15 PM PIT 10:05 PM

BOS 10:40 AM CHS 1:05 PM
CHS 1:35 PM BOS 3:55 PM

BOS 7:05 AM JAX 10:15 AM
JAX 10:45 AM BOS 2:15 PM
BOS 3:40 PM JAX 6:50 PM
JAX 7:25 PM BOS 10:55 PM

BOS 6:30 AM MCI 8:51 AM
MCI 6:35 AM MCI 10:27 AM
BOS 6:05 PM MCI 8:26 PM
MCI 7:30 PM BOS 11:22 PM

BOS 8:35 AM BNA 10:28 AM
BNA 6:30 AM BOS 10:12 AM
BOS 2:50 PM BNA 4:47 PM
BNA 11:10 AM BOS 2:48 PM
BOS 7:00 PM BNA 8:57 PM
BNA 5:20 PM BOS 8:56 PM

Considering existing schedules for TATL destinations on DL and/or codeshare partners to destinations, I believe PIT is more geared for TATL destinations than the rest of the new adds. Who knows - more to come and certainly exciting times!

I agree - CHS and BNA can work, but they're relative long layovers if you're aiming for the 7- 7:30 flights.

New topic but hopefully on-topic.

I've seen an effect from the Hurricane Damage to SXM, Puerto Rico, and STT. The prices to other Caribbean locations (and other alternatives like Costa Rica) are insane this season. I've seen March fares rivaling the usual suspects: the school vacation weeks in February and April. One outrageous price I saw was $2170 for BOS-LIR in mid-March on B6.

Anyone have an update on the AA Terminal B project? The one that will consolidate AA on the LUS side?

Based on what I have been told by Massport, scheduled for early 2019. Exact timing TBD but that is what Massport is aiming the project to get completed by although Massport has been good in completing work early of the scheduled time. Work is going on in full swing when I was at B last Tue.

Is there any update on why S4 is still flying their A310 to BOS and when they will bring their A321?

Will DL bring back nonstop service from BOS to DFW in the near future? DL did used to have nonstop service from BOS to DFW back when it had a hub at DFW, but DL has been recently expanding at BOS and DL could bring back BOS-DFW nonstop service as part of the further expansion of its BOS focus city.

Themotionman wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Will DL bring back nonstop service from BOS to DFW in the near future? DL did used to have nonstop service from BOS to DFW back when it had a hub at DFW, but DL has been recently expanding at BOS and DL could bring back BOS-DFW nonstop service as part of the further expansion of its BOS focus city.

AA have got that route locked down

Good point, and B6 and NK also serve DFW nonstop from BOS. In addition, WN also serves DAL nonstop from BOS.

jplatts wrote:

Will DL bring back nonstop service from BOS to DFW in the near future? DL did used to have nonstop service from BOS to DFW back when it had a hub at DFW, but DL has been recently expanding at BOS and DL could bring back BOS-DFW nonstop service as part of the further expansion of its BOS focus city.

AA have got that route locked down

jplatts wrote:

Themotionman wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Will DL bring back nonstop service from BOS to DFW in the near future? DL did used to have nonstop service from BOS to DFW back when it had a hub at DFW, but DL has been recently expanding at BOS and DL could bring back BOS-DFW nonstop service as part of the further expansion of its BOS focus city.

AA have got that route locked down

Good point, and B6 and NK also serve DFW nonstop from BOS. In addition, WN also serves DAL nonstop from BOS.

Yes, AA do have the route locked down, however it has been seen that DL aren't afraid of wading into someone else's territory, at least from BOS. If they are serious about expanding their FF's options in BOS, they might want to consider the route in the future, kind of like B6 did with LGA and ATL. However I don't see this sort of thing happening until WN move out in 2019, giving them the extra space. I think they are in the 105-110 range for departures right now, with the stated aim of getting to 150, that big push won't happen until A18-A22 are released. Could I see some limited service at that point, probably, just like B6 in ATL or ORD, DL may not want to poke the DFW bear too much to wake him out of his slumber, but given the bear's general lack of interest in doing a whole lot except sleeping on what they have, it might work just right.

I agree that at some point that may occur but I believe DL is first taking care of unfinished business with B6 and then may take on the powerful forces of AA and UA in their fortress hubs. The below proves it: I have included all destinations flown by B6 and DL including seasonal and codeshare.

B6 current BOS destinations

Domestic: ATL, AUS, BWI, BUF, CHS, CLT, ORD, CLE, DFW, DEN, DTW, FLL, RSW, HOU, JAX, LAS, LGB, LAX, MSP, BNA, MSY, JFK, LGA, EWR, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, RDU, RIC, SLC, SAN, SFO, SJC, SAV, SEA, SYR, TPA, IAD, DCA, PBI, OAK, PDX, SMF, SRQ

International: AUA, BGI, BDA, CUN, MBJ, NAS, SJU, STI, STT, GCM, LIR, PAP, PLS, POP, PUJ

DL
Domestic: ATL, AUS, CVG, DTW, FLL, RSW, LAX, MIA, MSP, JFK, MCO, RDU, SLC, SFO, SEA, TPA, PBI, BUF, CMH, IND, JAX, MCI, BNA, LGA, ORF, PIT, RIC, SAV, CHS, MSY, MYR
International: CUN, DUB, AMS, CDG, PUJ, STT, PLS, MBJ, LHR, MAN

Domestic destinations flown by B6 but not by DL: BWI, CLE, CLT, DCA, DEN, DFW, EWR, HOU, IAD, LAS, LGB, OAK, PDX, PHL, PHX, SAN, SMF, SRQ, SYR, LAS
Domestic destinations flown by DL but not by B6: CMH, CVG, IND, MCI, MIA, MYR, ORF

If you exclude the fortress hubs of AA, UA and Southwest, I believe there are few destinations that DL can add which is SAN, CLE, OAK, LGB, SMF, SYR etc. I do not know how big are LGB, SMF, SYR etc. but I believe CLE and SAN are some big ones although CLE was a former UA hub. LAS was something DL tried but it stopped and I was on one of those flights I believe at some day DL may end up taking on the legacy carriers to expand.

International does not look good for B6 as barring Carribean destinations, there is none to be compared with DL. DL is almost adding all of the B6 destinations with the exceptions of BGI, BDA, SJU, STI, STT, GCM, LIR, PAP, POP.

Off this how much of these international destinations not served by DL are big is something VS4ever can exactly say in terms of pax numbers.

There are few other additions on the DL existing routes: http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... stinations

See the last two para specifically so there is substance that DL is not going to give B6 easily. Exciting times nevertheless for Logan.

Of the list above. B6’s numbers rolling 12 months to July 17
SJU- 309,647 but will start dropping big time after September
BGI- 15,234
BDA- 30,267 (although I think DL do fly this)
STI- 60,201
GCM- 6,260
LIR- 5,799
PAP- 15,052
POP- 6,343

SJU, PAP, BDA and BDI are up over prior period the rest are down. STT is flown by DL

iyerhari wrote:

I agree that at some point that may occur but I believe DL is first taking care of unfinished business with B6 and then may take on the powerful forces of AA and UA in their fortress hubs. The below proves it: I have included all destinations flown by B6 and DL including seasonal and codeshare.

B6 current BOS destinations

Domestic: ATL, AUS, BWI, BUF, CHS, CLT, ORD, CLE, DFW, DEN, DTW, FLL, RSW, HOU, JAX, LAS, LGB, LAX, MSP, BNA, MSY, JFK, LGA, EWR, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, RDU, RIC, SLC, SAN, SFO, SJC, SAV, SEA, SYR, TPA, IAD, DCA, PBI, OAK, PDX, SMF, SRQ

International: AUA, BGI, BDA, CUN, MBJ, NAS, SJU, STI, STT, GCM, LIR, PAP, PLS, POP, PUJ

DL
Domestic: ATL, AUS, CVG, DTW, FLL, RSW, LAX, MIA, MSP, JFK, MCO, RDU, SLC, SFO, SEA, TPA, PBI, BUF, CMH, IND, JAX, MCI, BNA, LGA, ORF, PIT, RIC, SAV, CHS, MSY, MYR
International: CUN, DUB, AMS, CDG, PUJ, STT, PLS, MBJ, LHR, MAN

Domestic destinations flown by B6 but not by DL: BWI, CLE, CLT, DCA, DEN, DFW, EWR, HOU, IAD, LAS, LGB, OAK, PDX, PHL, PHX, SAN, SMF, SRQ, SYR, LAS
Domestic destinations flown by DL but not by B6: CMH, CVG, IND, MCI, MIA, MYR, ORF

If you exclude the fortress hubs of AA, UA and Southwest, I believe there are few destinations that DL can add which is SAN, CLE, OAK, LGB, SMF, SYR etc. I do not know how big are LGB, SMF, SYR etc. but I believe CLE and SAN are some big ones although CLE was a former UA hub. LAS was something DL tried but it stopped and I was on one of those flights I believe at some day DL may end up taking on the legacy carriers to expand.

International does not look good for B6 as barring Carribean destinations, there is none to be compared with DL. DL is almost adding all of the B6 destinations with the exceptions of BGI, BDA, SJU, STI, STT, GCM, LIR, PAP, POP.

Off this how much of these international destinations not served by DL are big is something VS4ever can exactly say in terms of pax numbers.

There are few other additions on the DL existing routes: http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... stinations

See the last two para specifically so there is substance that DL is not going to give B6 easily. Exciting times nevertheless for Logan.

I really don't see dl flying some of these Island routes when they don't even fly there out of JFK or atl.

B6 really eats legacies lunch on Caribbean routes.

B6 will never have Boston to itself given how many legacies strongholds are its biggest markets. But it has had an easy time to some of their leisure routes to Florida which have plenty of room for competition.

Agreed re: island routes. Possibly some weekend aircraft utilization flights, but you'd see them from JFK first.

CLE could be interesting; decent amount of business traffic and fits in well with the midwestern O&D presence that DL has - CMH, IND, MKE etc...

At some point, DL is going to have to decide whether they want to round out the corporate routes and offer ORD, DFW, CLT, PHL and DCA (slot discussions aside).

I didn't even realize it, until after I wrote that, but all of them are AA strong holds. And AA still has a strong presence in BOS, despite flying to fewer destinations than in the past - especially on hub routes.

I agree - that is why despite AA only flying a handful of non-hub routes (PIT, MDT, SYR, ROC, and some Caribbean weekend routes) they still hold a healthy lead over DL. Based on what I had read probably in this forum or a different thread in this forum, with the recent adds, DL is going to be at 113 flights/day. If they intend to go to 150 as per what Ed Bastian stated in his interview, there is still over 37 flights left to complete! That is quite a lot and at some stage, DL may be enticed to enter AA and UA strongholds. I do not know how profitable they will be but it is certainly going to be interesting if they wish to build and give their FF to choose DL over a competitive carrier as much as they can! SAN is one other destination that is interesting! Only B6 and AS fly that route.

airbazar wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

I agree that at some point that may occur but I believe DL is first taking care of unfinished business with B6 and then may take on the powerful forces of AA and UA in their fortress hubs.

I don't think DL is the least bit interested in B6 at this point. I think their primary target is AA. By offering more service in BOS they steal back AA business customers. The B6 loyalist is a lot harder to convert, IMO. In recent years AA has given up on BUF and RDU, and with DL entering PIT last year I wouldn't be at all shocked if that too goes away eventually. AA has also terminated all its TATL flying from BOS while DL has expanded it.

The reason I stated is only because DL has gotten into all the markets where B6 has been flying. The only two routes that DL picked up that AA retrenched was RDU and BUF. RDU is a different story though because DL is building a focus city there. CHS, AUS, SAV, MSY, RIC, JAX, FLL and some FL destinations were primarily being flown by B6 (probably DL flew these routes in the past and terminated them in the late 2000's timeframe). When I spoke with Massport once, they were conscious that DL is keen to improve their rankings at BOS but AA seemed content with what they have. Nevertheless, DL's success will be to entice and poach AA FFs. This is my personal belief - B6 is a great airline but the challenge is that is not best suited for business travelers who clock a lot of airmiles every year. DL's hope maybe B6 business traveler will anyways come to DL if the schedules are good. This is just IMO.

iyerhari wrote:

I agree - that is why despite AA only flying a handful of non-hub routes (PIT, MDT, SYR, ROC, and some Caribbean weekend routes) they still hold a healthy lead over DL. Based on what I had read probably in this forum or a different thread in this forum, with the recent adds, DL is going to be at 113 flights/day. If they intend to go to 150 as per what Ed Bastian stated in his interview, there is still over 37 flights left to complete! That is quite a lot and at some stage, DL may be enticed to enter AA and UA strongholds. I do not know how profitable they will be but it is certainly going to be interesting if they wish to build and give their FF to choose DL over a competitive carrier as much as they can! SAN is one other destination that is interesting! Only B6 and AS fly that route.

If they intend to be a serious contender then they need to offer at least a token service into National. Four or five daily CR7s would suffice.

iyerhari wrote:

I agree - that is why despite AA only flying a handful of non-hub routes (PIT, MDT, SYR, ROC, and some Caribbean weekend routes) they still hold a healthy lead over DL. Based on what I had read probably in this forum or a different thread in this forum, with the recent adds, DL is going to be at 113 flights/day. If they intend to go to 150 as per what Ed Bastian stated in his interview, there is still over 37 flights left to complete! That is quite a lot and at some stage, DL may be enticed to enter AA and UA strongholds. I do not know how profitable they will be but it is certainly going to be interesting if they wish to build and give their FF to choose DL over a competitive carrier as much as they can! SAN is one other destination that is interesting! Only B6 and AS fly that route.

If Delta intends to be a serious contender in Boston, they need to be on Boston-DC, even if only four or five times per day.