The rest of Ohio - 2018

ADrum23 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:45 am

What is going on with the CVG master plan? Nothing has been posted and it is now Q2 of 2018. If they want to finish the new master plan by winter, they got to be releasing something new here right?

Springs1816 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:45 am

cvgComair wrote:
Interesting article about passenger bleed coming to CVG being mostly from SDF/LEX rather than IND/DAY/CMH. It does make sense since LEX/SDF are only 1-1.5 hrs from Cincinnati, but I would have figured DAY would have topped the list. Though, SDF/LEX really don't have any close alternatives, whereas DAY is probably split between CMH/IND/CVG. https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/flyin ... ups?page=2

Interesting article all around. Living in LEX I can definitely say CVG is the go to for me. Have two trips booked from there over LEX. Much better options for direct flights and better prices. I wonder how many passengers this bleeding adds to the numbers. I would guess it's quite significant. Probably over a million from SDF/LEX/DAY combined but, again that's just my guess.

Thanks for those Int. PDEW numbers btw. No surprises really. Wish it was more recent and broke down by specific cities but oh well.

Jshank83 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:29 am

cvgComair wrote:
Interesting article about passenger bleed coming to CVG being mostly from SDF/LEX rather than IND/DAY/CMH. It does make sense since LEX/SDF are only 1-1.5 hrs from Cincinnati, but I would have figured DAY would have topped the list. Though, SDF/LEX really don't have any close alternatives, whereas DAY is probably split between CMH/IND/CVG. https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/flyin ... ups?page=2

Makes sense (except for maybe DAY as others mentioned) CMH/IND have a lot of flight options. Not much reason to drive to a different airport. SDF/LEX have a lot less.

cvgComair · Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:20 am

ADrum23 wrote:
What is going on with the CVG master plan? Nothing has been posted and it is now Q2 of 2018. If they want to finish the new master plan by winter, they got to be releasing something new here right?

I have no clue, they were supposed to release the first set of documents last fall, yet nothing is out. They were already starting on initial changes for the master plan in mid-2016, but it was originally a shorter term than the full 2050 master plan.

The only thing I can think of is that Amazon is not ready to disclose more details about the project. By 2050, the full build out of the facility will be long complete (est for 2025-2028) and numerous expansions could have occurred by then. This plan is essentially going to reveal what Amazon has in its plans long term. Given the possibility of Amazon partnering with or even taking over part/all of DHL, rivaling FedEx/UPS, this could reveal a lot. Perhaps they may not be ready to make announcements until they have firm fleet plans, partnerships, or possible acquisitions in line. Amazon has not disclosed any details of the project since the original announcement, but given all the large aircraft order and DHL acquisition rumors, obviously a lot is going on behind the scenes.

Not only that, the airport CEO recently cited a passenger figure of 11-13 million by 2021 with 4-5% growth thereafter, which seems quite ambitious to say the least and is big change from the 9 million figure cited earlier. This is a change within the past few months, which indicates that they might have had to rethink parts of the terminal plan as well. (I also wonder what is causing this increase in expected growth, a 2-4 million increase is quite a lot..., but the amount of stores/restaurants being added gives me some confidence in these ambitious passenger numbers)

I am not sure who to contact in order to find out if there is a timeframe for the release of the master plan docs, but I am going to try my best to figure out what is going on.

ADrum23 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:45 am

cvgComair wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
What is going on with the CVG master plan? Nothing has been posted and it is now Q2 of 2018. If they want to finish the new master plan by winter, they got to be releasing something new here right?

I have no clue, they were supposed to release the first set of documents last fall, yet nothing is out. They were already starting on initial changes for the master plan in mid-2016, but it was originally a shorter term than the full 2050 master plan.

The only thing I can think of is that Amazon is not ready to disclose more details about the project. By 2050, the full build out of the facility will be long complete (est for 2025-2028) and numerous expansions could have occurred by then. This plan is essentially going to reveal what Amazon has in its plans long term. Given the possibility of Amazon partnering with or even taking over part/all of DHL, rivaling FedEx/UPS, this could reveal a lot. Perhaps they may not be ready to make announcements until they have firm fleet plans, partnerships, or possible acquisitions in line. Amazon has not disclosed any details of the project since the original announcement, but given all the large aircraft order and DHL acquisition rumors, obviously a lot is going on behind the scenes.

Not only that, the airport CEO recently cited a passenger figure of 11-13 million by 2021 with 4-5% growth thereafter, which seems quite ambitious to say the least and is big change from the 9 million figure cited earlier. This is a change within the past few months, which indicates that they might have had to rethink parts of the terminal plan as well. (I also wonder what is causing this increase in expected growth, a 2-4 million increase is quite a lot..., but the amount of stores/restaurants being added confirms that they are expecting the current growth to be maintained for at least a few more years)

I am not sure who to contact and try to find out if there is a timeframe for the release of the master plan, but I am going to try my best to figure out what is going on.

That’s really interesting about Amazon potentially buying DHL, I never knew that was in the cards. Would that negate the need to build at least part of the proposed Amazon cargo facility?

As for the pax growth, WN entering the market and DL subsequently responding is what is causing the growth IMO (and will drive most of the growth for the next few years). By 2021, I think WN will have full access to their network from CVG and increased frequencies on existing routes (for example, I’m pretty sure they’ll add a morning and perhaps an afternoon flight to the recently announced Denver service). How much will DL continue to respond though? Who knows. I wonder if they’ll ever get back to at least 100 flights a day. They got all that gate space in B going to waste.....

cvgComair · Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:01 am

ADrum23 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
What is going on with the CVG master plan? Nothing has been posted and it is now Q2 of 2018. If they want to finish the new master plan by winter, they got to be releasing something new here right?

I have no clue, they were supposed to release the first set of documents last fall, yet nothing is out. They were already starting on initial changes for the master plan in mid-2016, but it was originally a shorter term than the full 2050 master plan.

The only thing I can think of is that Amazon is not ready to disclose more details about the project. By 2050, the full build out of the facility will be long complete (est for 2025-2028) and numerous expansions could have occurred by then. This plan is essentially going to reveal what Amazon has in its plans long term. Given the possibility of Amazon partnering with or even taking over part/all of DHL, rivaling FedEx/UPS, this could reveal a lot. Perhaps they may not be ready to make announcements until they have firm fleet plans, partnerships, or possible acquisitions in line. Amazon has not disclosed any details of the project since the original announcement, but given all the large aircraft order and DHL acquisition rumors, obviously a lot is going on behind the scenes.

Not only that, the airport CEO recently cited a passenger figure of 11-13 million by 2021 with 4-5% growth thereafter, which seems quite ambitious to say the least and is big change from the 9 million figure cited earlier. This is a change within the past few months, which indicates that they might have had to rethink parts of the terminal plan as well. (I also wonder what is causing this increase in expected growth, a 2-4 million increase is quite a lot..., but the amount of stores/restaurants being added confirms that they are expecting the current growth to be maintained for at least a few more years)

I am not sure who to contact and try to find out if there is a timeframe for the release of the master plan, but I am going to try my best to figure out what is going on.

That’s really interesting about Amazon potentially buying DHL, I never knew that was in the cards. Would that negate the need to build at least part of the proposed Amazon cargo facility?

As for the pax growth, WN entering the market and DL subsequently responding is what is causing the growth IMO (and will drive most of the growth for the next few years). By 2021, I think WN will have full access to their network from CVG and increased frequencies on existing routes (for example, I’m pretty sure they’ll add a morning and perhaps an afternoon flight to the recently announced Denver service). How much will DL continue to respond though? Who knows. I wonder if they’ll ever get back to at least 100 flights a day. They got all that gate space in B going to waste.....

I should clarify, the idea is that Amazon will buy one or more of DHL/Amazon's operators (Atlas, ABX, or ATI), semi-merging the two airlines' operations. The DHL in Germany would still be itself, but Amazon could essentially become the main operator of DHL Americas. Also, DHL is testing its own ground delivery services in the US, which would allow Amazon to completely bypass FedEx/UPS. There are so many ways they could do this, but I think it is clear DHL was a big reason they chose CVG.

As far as pax, I agree that DL and WN are going to be the primary drivers of growth. Both carriers have lots of room to grow and I don't see F9 or G4 going anywhere soon. I would argue DL cut way too low years ago, but it remains to be seen how much they will add back. WN had a rough start, but it appears they are happy with the progress and are starting to add more destinations. Once they get built up more, then they will become a much more viable alternative for fliers.

DeltaRules · Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:09 pm

IND-CDG goes year-round: https://news.delta.com/more-delta-nonst ... and-europe

If it's fair to assume this is a sign DL thinks the route is going to be a success, c'moooooooooooooon, Joe Nardone.

ADrum23 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:28 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
IND-CDG goes year-round: https://news.delta.com/more-delta-nonst ... and-europe

If it's fair to assume this is a sign DL thinks the route is going to be a success, c'moooooooooooooon, Joe Nardone.

Wasn’t it always going to be year round? How is this news?

SumChristianus · Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:56 pm

It was originally supposed to be 3x/week in the off season, then 5x a week was promised in the official press release for 2018 transatlantic changes, and now its back to 3x. Kind of inconsistent.

cvgatc · Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:32 am

Adding another to Amazon's fleet

https://twitter.com/davehclark/status/9 ... 7375196161

cvgComair · Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:42 am

cvgComair wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
I have no clue, they were supposed to release the first set of documents last fall, yet nothing is out. They were already starting on initial changes for the master plan in mid-2016, but it was originally a shorter term than the full 2050 master plan.

The only thing I can think of is that Amazon is not ready to disclose more details about the project. By 2050, the full build out of the facility will be long complete (est for 2025-2028) and numerous expansions could have occurred by then. This plan is essentially going to reveal what Amazon has in its plans long term. Given the possibility of Amazon partnering with or even taking over part/all of DHL, rivaling FedEx/UPS, this could reveal a lot. Perhaps they may not be ready to make announcements until they have firm fleet plans, partnerships, or possible acquisitions in line. Amazon has not disclosed any details of the project since the original announcement, but given all the large aircraft order and DHL acquisition rumors, obviously a lot is going on behind the scenes.

Not only that, the airport CEO recently cited a passenger figure of 11-13 million by 2021 with 4-5% growth thereafter, which seems quite ambitious to say the least and is big change from the 9 million figure cited earlier. This is a change within the past few months, which indicates that they might have had to rethink parts of the terminal plan as well. (I also wonder what is causing this increase in expected growth, a 2-4 million increase is quite a lot..., but the amount of stores/restaurants being added confirms that they are expecting the current growth to be maintained for at least a few more years)

I am not sure who to contact and try to find out if there is a timeframe for the release of the master plan, but I am going to try my best to figure out what is going on.

That’s really interesting about Amazon potentially buying DHL, I never knew that was in the cards. Would that negate the need to build at least part of the proposed Amazon cargo facility?

As for the pax growth, WN entering the market and DL subsequently responding is what is causing the growth IMO (and will drive most of the growth for the next few years). By 2021, I think WN will have full access to their network from CVG and increased frequencies on existing routes (for example, I’m pretty sure they’ll add a morning and perhaps an afternoon flight to the recently announced Denver service). How much will DL continue to respond though? Who knows. I wonder if they’ll ever get back to at least 100 flights a day. They got all that gate space in B going to waste.....

I should clarify, the idea is that Amazon will buy one or more of DHL/Amazon's operators (Atlas, ABX, or ATI), semi-merging the two airlines' operations. The DHL in Germany would still be itself, but Amazon could essentially become the main operator of DHL Americas. Also, DHL is testing its own ground delivery services in the US, which would allow Amazon to completely bypass FedEx/UPS. There are so many ways they could do this, but I think it is clear DHL was a big reason they chose CVG.

As far as pax, I agree that DL and WN are going to be the primary drivers of growth. Both carriers have lots of room to grow and I don't see F9 or G4 going anywhere soon. I would argue DL cut way too low years ago, but it remains to be seen how much they will add back. WN had a rough start, but it appears they are happy with the progress and are starting to add more destinations. Once they get built up more, then they will become a much more viable alternative for fliers.

I contacted CVG and this was the response: "We are coordinating a draft of the Master Plan Forecast of Aviation Activity Report with the FAA and will have a better understanding of report release timing in the near future. Please stay tuned for further development." So it appears they are working on getting drafts of the documents available for public viewing, but a timeframe for that release is still not set. Hopefully "soon" actually means soon!

cvgatc wrote:
Adding another to Amazon's fleet

https://twitter.com/davehclark/status/9 ... 7375196161

It is certainly nice to see the fleet growing. They are currently expecting 12 more 763's, most of which will be delivered this year. Unfortunately there will not be a lot of growth at CVG until their own ramp is finished or they add multiple daily sorts.

bigred10k · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:05 am

DeltaRules wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Interesting article about passenger bleed coming to CVG being mostly from SDF/LEX rather than IND/DAY/CMH. It does make sense since LEX/SDF are only 1-1.5 hrs from Cincinnati, but I would have figured DAY would have topped the list. Though, SDF/LEX really don't have any close alternatives, whereas DAY is probably split between CMH/IND/CVG. https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/flyin ... ups?page=2

One thing pointed out in our visit to DAY last week was that the airport, though there's been bleed to CVG, still draws well from as far down as the Mason area. Having to drive through Downtown Cincinnati, especially at rush hour, is a deterrent working against CVG.

I'm from that direction, and I still find myself preferring to fly out of DAY rather than CVG. If CMH has a lower fare or better connection, I'll even head up that way.

If its an early morning or late afternoon flight out of CVG during the week, no thank you. I-71 and I-75 are both disasters. I-275 takes you through Indiana. Somebody once suggested I could get off the highway and take the Anderson Ferry over the Ohio to get to the airport! Any way you slice it, its taken me upwards of 2 hours to get to the "Cincinnati" airport. Compare to a pretty consistent 50 minutes to DAY, plus its usually faster to get to your gate in DAY than CVG or CMH.

Sure, CVG has added some non-stop flights and the fares are now cheaper than DAY or even CMH. But many of those non-stops operate less than 7 days a week, and often only once daily. If you miss one of those non-stops, your often in a terrible situation (except if flying DL). I'm not a person who will leave my family a 1/2 day earlier or later just to catch the non-stop out of CVG.

cvgComair · Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:52 am

F9 has $6 one-way fares on CVG-AUS/SAT right now! Not sure what is going on with the booking system, but it is a great deal if they actually honor these fares. Too bad the fares don't work for out and back on the same day or I would try it!

DeltaRules · Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:36 pm

March was the busiest month ever at CMH: http://www.dispatch.com/news/20180420/m ... nn-airport
-732,196 passengers served.
-YOY growth would have been 2.9% but the inclusion of NK's new service ballooned that number to 9.1% growth.
-F9 saw a significant loss with LAS dropped.

edit- Ha, boscmh and I must have posted this simultaneously!

boscmh · Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:39 pm

CMH had its busiest month on record in March, up 9.1% over 2017 and largely fueled by NK and WN

Total pax were 732,196 last month. For the entire 1Q CMH is up 6.5%, putting the airport on track for its busiest year ever, finally overtaking 2007 which was the year SX was in operation

More here, http://www.dispatch.com/news/20180420/m ... nn-airport

DeltaRules · Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:54 pm

CRAA is now posting board agendas in advance prior to each month's meeting and hoooooooooooooly crap, are they detailed: https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... -final.pdf

I wonder which gates are "unleased" that AA and UA are using (page 9). I'd imagine C49 and 50 are the ones for DL.

Prior months- https://columbusairports.com/about-us/l ... nd-minutes

RAM787 · Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:25 pm

I believe one of the gates that is unleased by United is B34. It is regularly used by United but I've seen Spirit, Frontier and others use it for unexpected RON aircraft. There is United signage at the gate, but I think thats just because United uses it the most.

boscmh · Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:58 pm

Wow. Those are incredibly detailed and in-depth reports. And they're now trying to adhere to a set schedule for posting them online, every month the Friday before the next board meeting by 5PM

I have to say I really like what Joe Nardone has been doing with the CRAA so far!

NoTime · Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:59 pm

boscmh wrote:
I have to say I really like what Joe Nardone has been doing with the CRAA so far!

Agreed. So far so good.

DeltaRules · Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:09 pm

Lost in the shuffle is G4 grew by 25.8% YOY at LCK and 28.8% in March.

WWads · Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:28 pm

Just booked the restored DCA-CVG Saturday service for June. Nice to have that option back, as it allows me to get in for my HS reunion without having to leave the office early/fight all the DYKWIA types that crowd DCA on Fridays.

Hopefully it sticks. It's starting with CR9s, which is a good sign.

SumChristianus · Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:02 am

WWads wrote:
Just booked the restored DCA-CVG Saturday service for June. Nice to have that option back, as it allows me to get in for my HS reunion without having to leave the office early/fight all the DYKWIA types that crowd DCA on Fridays.

Hopefully it sticks. It's starting with CR9s, which is a good sign.

On DL? Are fares better than the hub-madness days in your opinion?

bigred10k · Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:12 am

DCA-CVG saturday service has always been in place on PSA (dba American Eagle). Just took that flight 1.5 months ago. There has also been an earlier DCA-DAY saturday flight (also on PSA).

The DL reduction in service to DCA coincided with the great DCA/LGA route swap a few years ago with US Airways. 4x daily non-stops on PSA to DAY (going from 1x to 3x on summer weekends this summer) is a very nice alternative to CVG (which I think will just have two non-stops on weekends). Plus its a heck of alot easier to get an elite upgrade on AA than DL going anywhere near CVG.

WWads · Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:14 pm

No, on DL.

Their fares are generally slightly higher than AA, but you're getting more reliable service, no 50-seaters, and no 35X, so I'm fine with that. The Saturday fares are quite low.

I've never failed to get an upgrade as a DL Platinum on DCA-CVG.

cledaybuck · Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:58 pm

I know WN has mentioned LGA-CMH in the past. Any chance we get it now that they acquired some more slots from AS?
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field

boscmh · Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:16 pm

Not sure if they will but I'd love to see WN jump on CMH-LGA

DeltaRules · Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:20 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
I know WN has mentioned LGA-CMH in the past. Any chance we get it now that they acquired some more slots from AS?
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field

I know I'm triggering a very detailed follow-up post analyzing the alternate uses of the slots by suggesting this, but with six round-trips available, I'd figure CMH would be on the short list for at least a couple of them. It certainly helps the chances that the airline itself said last summer they'd like to start it.

I wonder what the response would be from DL and AA, though. The schedule today for both:
DL- 3 E75, 1 E70, 2 CR9
AA- 1 E75, 1 E70, 3 ERJ, 1 CRJ

With places like IND and RDU being DL strongholds and having mainline (per Wiki, anyway), I wonder if they'd throw a 717 on there every now and then.

cvgComair · Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:37 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
I know WN has mentioned LGA-CMH in the past. Any chance we get it now that they acquired some more slots from AS?
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field

F9's daily CVG-LGA has been really successful despite competition from AA/DL, similarly, I imagine WN on CMH-LGA could do really well. I would think CMH is at the top of the list for these new slots.

WWads · Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:35 am

AA signs are up in B, and they’ve removed the DL-branded seats.

Hopefully DL leaves their logo on the jet bridges just to troll (since they still own the gates technically).

cvgComair · Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:31 am

WWads wrote:
AA signs are up in B, and they’ve removed the DL-branded seats.

Hopefully DL leaves their logo on the jet bridges just to troll (since they still own the gates technically).

The removal of Delta graphics was an alternate for the contractor doing work on the gates, but was not included in the final award. It looks like the DL logos on the jetways will stay for the time being.

brooklynchris13 · Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:05 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I know WN has mentioned LGA-CMH in the past. Any chance we get it now that they acquired some more slots from AS?
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field

I know I'm triggering a very detailed follow-up post analyzing the alternate uses of the slots by suggesting this, but with six round-trips available, I'd figure CMH would be on the short list for at least a couple of them. It certainly helps the chances that the airline itself said last summer they'd like to start it.

I wonder what the response would be from DL and AA, though. The schedule today for both:
DL- 3 E75, 1 E70, 2 CR9
AA- 1 E75, 1 E70, 3 ERJ, 1 CRJ

With places like IND and RDU being DL strongholds and having mainline (per Wiki, anyway), I wonder if they'd throw a 717 on there every now and then.

Great job CMH on a banner month, hopefully it keeps up and even accelerates. With the growth of the economy in metro Columbus, it was only a matter of time before something started to take-off (pardon the really bad pun). Count me in on the idea that WN will add LGA service, I am curious if it would be one RT a day or 2. I honestly do not know if there is the demand for a morning LGA to CMH flight, or if it can be handled with an AM CMH-LGA departure and evening return.

One very minor item Delta Rules, as I am sure you know, there is no 170 flying for AA any longer unless they were to utilize a back-up house aircraft as a sub. (and I don't even know how often that happens. None-the-less, you got me to research to see if a 170 had magically found its way back and it seems that was a flightaware(?) issue. Tomorrow shows: 3 ERJ 140s; 1 CRJ; and 2 E175s.

I have to wonder what the response would be from DL and AA to WN's entry into the market. Have to think maybe a reduction in frequency but upgrade to all first/business class flying. Have to differentiate product somehow and a 737 vs E140 may actually push some business to WN.

Finally, with Spirits success, is it too soon to serious guesstimate where they may fly next? Or if they will extend the operations time for some of their seasonal flying? Flying out of B the other day, the security line was all the way into the main lobby at about 7am! According to the TSA pre-check agent.. "that all started when Spirit did." Nice to see, but I was very thankful I was not in that line!

DeltaRules · Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:41 am

brooklynchris13 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I know WN has mentioned LGA-CMH in the past. Any chance we get it now that they acquired some more slots from AS?
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field

I know I'm triggering a very detailed follow-up post analyzing the alternate uses of the slots by suggesting this, but with six round-trips available, I'd figure CMH would be on the short list for at least a couple of them. It certainly helps the chances that the airline itself said last summer they'd like to start it.

I wonder what the response would be from DL and AA, though. The schedule today for both:
DL- 3 E75, 1 E70, 2 CR9
AA- 1 E75, 1 E70, 3 ERJ, 1 CRJ

With places like IND and RDU being DL strongholds and having mainline (per Wiki, anyway), I wonder if they'd throw a 717 on there every now and then.

Great job CMH on a banner month, hopefully it keeps up and even accelerates. With the growth of the economy in metro Columbus, it was only a matter of time before something started to take-off (pardon the really bad pun). Count me in on the idea that WN will add LGA service, I am curious if it would be one RT a day or 2. I honestly do not know if there is the demand for a morning LGA to CMH flight, or if it can be handled with an AM CMH-LGA departure and evening return.

One very minor item Delta Rules, as I am sure you know, there is no 170 flying for AA any longer unless they were to utilize a back-up house aircraft as a sub. (and I don't even know how often that happens. None-the-less, you got me to research to see if a 170 had magically found its way back and it seems that was a flightaware(?) issue. Tomorrow shows: 3 ERJ 140s; 1 CRJ; and 2 E175s.

I have to wonder what the response would be from DL and AA to WN's entry into the market. Have to think maybe a reduction in frequency but upgrade to all first/business class flying. Have to differentiate product somehow and a 737 vs E140 may actually push some business to WN.

Finally, with Spirits success, is it too soon to serious guesstimate where they may fly next? Or if they will extend the operations time for some of their seasonal flying? Flying out of B the other day, the security line was all the way into the main lobby at about 7am! According to the TSA pre-check agent.. "that all started when Spirit did." Nice to see, but I was very thankful I was not in that line!

FlightAware was my quick reference instead of digging through the airlines' websites themselves.

I'd hope NK would play connect the dots with CMH's map like SAN and SEA (MSP, DTW, ORD, and BWI are all relatively close and have both), but figure they'd be more likely to hop on existing routes (ATL, BOS, LAX, DFW) to try and undercut the incumbents as they did at CLE and PIT. All but DFW might be a bit crowded, as they'd be the third on the route for ATL/BOS/LAX, but you never know.

September11 · Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:42 am

DeltaRules, I spotted a Delta 757 on approach to CMH yesterday afternoon (at around 12:30) ... Can you check into that?

DeltaRules · Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:51 am

September11 wrote:
DeltaRules, I spotted a Delta 757 on approach to CMH yesterday afternoon (at around 12:30) ... Can you check into that?

Having trouble finding it, but I'd be willing to bet it was one of their charter config 757s to take the Washington Capitals back to DC.

September11 · Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:57 am

Columbus Blue Jackets currently uses Swift Air 734s (formerly US Airways) for charter flights? Their owned D9S (formerly Legend, Continental & Texas Air) parked for good?

DeltaRules · Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:11 am

September11 wrote:
Columbus Blue Jackets currently uses Swift Air 734s (formerly US Airways) for charter flights? Their owned D9S (formerly Midwest & Texas Air) parked for good?

They use Swift, correct. The DC-9 is at a museum in Texas.

ricport · Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:19 pm

One thing that has been on my mind for a while (and forgiveness if it's already been asked & answered here), but why haven't the folks at the Columbus Chamber been knocking on Oscar Munoz's door to get SFO service? With all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, this seems like a no-brainer. And if IND & PIT can support UA SFO service, CMH definitely can. I also think this would be a good investment for UA, as they could lure east coast pax from DL & AA.

izbtmnhd · Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:58 pm

ricport wrote:
With all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, this seems like a no-brainer. .

If it's a "no-brainer" then it would already be in service, no? UA already captures CMH transfer data. Maybe it's not as large of a presence as you think or maybe those companies simply don't travel much.

jplatts · Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:32 pm

ricport wrote:
One thing that has been on my mind for a while (and forgiveness if it's already been asked & answered here), but why haven't the folks at the Columbus Chamber been knocking on Oscar Munoz's door to get SFO service? With all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, this seems like a no-brainer. And if IND & PIT can support UA SFO service, CMH definitely can. I also think this would be a good investment for UA, as they could lure east coast pax from DL & AA.

izbtmnhd wrote:
If it's a "no-brainer" then it would already be in service, no? UA already captures CMH transfer data. Maybe it's not as large of a presence as you think or maybe those companies simply don't travel much.

I agree that there is enough demand for nonstop service to SFO on UA with CMH being located in the largest U.S. metropolitan area that doesn't have any nonstop service to SFO on any airline. The O&D demand for CMH to the San Francisco Bay Area (SFO/OAK/SJC) also exceeds the capacity available on the WN CMH-OAK nonstop flights, and there was an average of 528 passengers per day travelling between CMH and the San Francisco Bay Area (SFO/OAK/SJC) in Q3 2017 according to the DOT Domestic Airline Consumer Airfare Report.

ricport · Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:24 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
ricport wrote:
With all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, this seems like a no-brainer. .

If it's a "no-brainer" then it would already be in service, no? UA already captures CMH transfer data. Maybe it's not as large of a presence as you think or maybe those companies simply don't travel much.

Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?

DeltaRules · Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:30 pm

ricport wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
ricport wrote:
With all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, this seems like a no-brainer. .

If it's a "no-brainer" then it would already be in service, no? UA already captures CMH transfer data. Maybe it's not as large of a presence as you think or maybe those companies simply don't travel much.

Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?

United's been a distant fourth at CMH for a while (and could conceivably fall to fifth depending on how NK does), but I'm still surprised they added DTW and CVG-SFO before CMH. Granted, there could be valid reasons for that, but they had years to do it even before WN started OAK and didn't.

StuckinCMHland · Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:01 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
ricport wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

If it's a "no-brainer" then it would already be in service, no? UA already captures CMH transfer data. Maybe it's not as large of a presence as you think or maybe those companies simply don't travel much.

Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?

United's been a distant fourth at CMH for a while (and could conceivably fall to fifth depending on how NK does), but I'm still surprised they added DTW and CVG-SFO before CMH. Granted, there could be valid reasons for that, but they had years to do it even before WN started OAK and didn't.

{cynic} Maybe its because UA's feelings are hurt because they are stuffed in a tiny corner of Concourse B and its the longest walk in the airport from a TSA station. But at least you can get a Starbuck's coffee and finish it before you get to the gate.{/cynic}

UA has no interest in CMH unless you want to take a regional or maybe 1 A320 a day to ORD or IAD, or maybe by some miracle to EWR. AC occasionally has a flight to YYZ for a change of pace. It is very discouraging. The way things are they might as well just close up shop and leave so the airport authority could find a real airline to use the gates, but OTOH, nobody wants to use two or three gates with no jet bridges anyway.

DeltaRules · Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:37 pm

StuckinCMHland wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
ricport wrote:

Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?

United's been a distant fourth at CMH for a while (and could conceivably fall to fifth depending on how NK does), but I'm still surprised they added DTW and CVG-SFO before CMH. Granted, there could be valid reasons for that, but they had years to do it even before WN started OAK and didn't.

{cynic} Maybe its because UA's feelings are hurt because they are stuffed in a tiny corner of Concourse B and its the longest walk in the airport from a TSA station. But at least you can get a Starbuck's coffee and finish it before you get to the gate.{/cynic}

UA has no interest in CMH unless you want to take a regional or maybe 1 A320 a day to ORD or IAD, or maybe by some miracle to EWR. AC occasionally has a flight to YYZ for a change of pace. It is very discouraging. The way things are they might as well just close up shop and leave so the airport authority could find a real airline to use the gates, but OTOH, nobody wants to use two or three gates with no jet bridges anyway.

To be fair, UA at least throws more mainline at CMH than AA (usually 2-3x/day to ORD and 1-2/day to DEN in the Summer- they're running a 739 on DEN-CMH this summer, as I found out when shopping last night). AC's added and upgauged in recent years as well. The lack of an SFO flight is slightly disappointing/annoying, but they've got the bases covered otherwise.

September11 · Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:21 pm

People would go crazy to jump on a Virgin America CMH-SFO flight.

Midwestindy · Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:26 pm

September11 wrote:
People would go crazy to jump on a Virgin America CMH-SFO flight.

To bad VX doesn't exist anymore

brooklynchris13 · Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:41 pm

StuckinCMHland wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
ricport wrote:

Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?

United's been a distant fourth at CMH for a while (and could conceivably fall to fifth depending on how NK does), but I'm still surprised they added DTW and CVG-SFO before CMH. Granted, there could be valid reasons for that, but they had years to do it even before WN started OAK and didn't.

{cynic} Maybe its because UA's feelings are hurt because they are stuffed in a tiny corner of Concourse B and its the longest walk in the airport from a TSA station. But at least you can get a Starbuck's coffee and finish it before you get to the gate.{/cynic}

UA has no interest in CMH unless you want to take a regional or maybe 1 A320 a day to ORD or IAD, or maybe by some miracle to EWR. AC occasionally has a flight to YYZ for a change of pace. It is very discouraging. The way things are they might as well just close up shop and leave so the airport authority could find a real airline to use the gates, but OTOH, nobody wants to use two or three gates with no jet bridges anyway.

**Non-Cynic**
United has been "stuck in that corner" for a very long time, since the end of what is now B was extended in the early 1980s. They also had what is now B28, in addition to the corner gates. Their flying out of CMH has been at a pretty consistent level, but they are certainly not a non-entity at CMH. As for AC, if you look at their numbers at CMH they have exploded over the last couple of years, especially since the swap for CRJs from DH8s. There are even occasional supplemental flights on B1900s, which are pretty cool to see. Other than missing out on an SFO flight, there is not much more to complain about with them at CMH.

Regarding mainline though, they tend to not have quite as many mainline flights as AA. AA: 4 or 5 to DFW, 1 to LAX, 2 to PHX, sometimes 1 to PHL for a total of 7-8ish. The most we have seen on UA is 4 or 5 to ORD and 1 to DEN or to EWR. WN (obviously) and DL are the front runners in that category. Regardless, the rising tide does lift all boats and the upward trend at CMH does bode well for growth for all carriers if they can capitalize on it. I think many people on here forget that so many travelers are not brand loyal when it comes to flying. They search online for fares, often on sites like Orbitz, and go with what is cheapest. WN being the notable exception. So, if people are interested in flying they can end up on any carrier in the market. (again, if the $$ is right)

CMHMarc787 · Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:45 pm

StuckinCMHland wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
ricport wrote:

Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?

United's been a distant fourth at CMH for a while (and could conceivably fall to fifth depending on how NK does), but I'm still surprised they added DTW and CVG-SFO before CMH. Granted, there could be valid reasons for that, but they had years to do it even before WN started OAK and didn't.

{cynic} Maybe its because UA's feelings are hurt because they are stuffed in a tiny corner of Concourse B and its the longest walk in the airport from a TSA station. But at least you can get a Starbuck's coffee and finish it before you get to the gate.{/cynic}

UA has no interest in CMH unless you want to take a regional or maybe 1 A320 a day to ORD or IAD, or maybe by some miracle to EWR. AC occasionally has a flight to YYZ for a change of pace. It is very discouraging. The way things are they might as well just close up shop and leave so the airport authority could find a real airline to use the gates, but OTOH, nobody wants to use two or three gates with no jet bridges anyway.

UA has considerably more than a single mainline on their schedule, and aren't stuffed in a corner...plus, there's only one non-jetway gate in that area, which is used by AC (four dailies to YYZ - hardly just occasionally). In actuality, UA could make a stronger presence at CMH simply by adding SFO to their repertoire - perhaps two-daily would be a good start.

flyinryan99 · Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:43 pm

TOL was up 40.7% in March of 2018 over March 2017. Currently, YTD 67,370 passengers have passed through TOL which is up 40% yoy.

http://www.toledoport.org/media-room/pr ... ince-2008/

TOLEDO, Ohio, April 25, 2018 – The Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority reports a 40.7 percent increase in passenger traffic at Toledo Express Airport in March 2018 when compared to the same month last year. Last month, 27,709 passengers flew through the airport, which is the highest monthly passenger count the airport has seen since March 2008. American Airlines showed a 122.89 percent increase for the month of March when compared to March 2017, largely due to the addition of the new twice daily route to Charlotte. Allegiant also showed a positive increase for the month of March, with a 10.15 percent increase over the same month last year.

masseybrown · Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:39 pm

flyinryan99 wrote:
TOL was up 40.7% in March of 2018 over March 2017. Currently, YTD 67,370 passengers have passed through TOL which is up 40% yoy.

Excellent news. It's great to see all that's happening in Toledo.

NoTime · Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:38 pm

I noticed at CMH today what looked like some broken ground near the cell phone lot... are they already starting on the new rental car facility?

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