Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
cvgComair wrote:Interesting article about passenger bleed coming to CVG being mostly from SDF/LEX rather than IND/DAY/CMH. It does make sense since LEX/SDF are only 1-1.5 hrs from Cincinnati, but I would have figured DAY would have topped the list. Though, SDF/LEX really don't have any close alternatives, whereas DAY is probably split between CMH/IND/CVG. https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/flyin ... ups?page=2
cvgComair wrote:Interesting article about passenger bleed coming to CVG being mostly from SDF/LEX rather than IND/DAY/CMH. It does make sense since LEX/SDF are only 1-1.5 hrs from Cincinnati, but I would have figured DAY would have topped the list. Though, SDF/LEX really don't have any close alternatives, whereas DAY is probably split between CMH/IND/CVG. https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/flyin ... ups?page=2
ADrum23 wrote:What is going on with the CVG master plan? Nothing has been posted and it is now Q2 of 2018. If they want to finish the new master plan by winter, they got to be releasing something new here right?
cvgComair wrote:ADrum23 wrote:What is going on with the CVG master plan? Nothing has been posted and it is now Q2 of 2018. If they want to finish the new master plan by winter, they got to be releasing something new here right?
I have no clue, they were supposed to release the first set of documents last fall, yet nothing is out. They were already starting on initial changes for the master plan in mid-2016, but it was originally a shorter term than the full 2050 master plan.
The only thing I can think of is that Amazon is not ready to disclose more details about the project. By 2050, the full build out of the facility will be long complete (est for 2025-2028) and numerous expansions could have occurred by then. This plan is essentially going to reveal what Amazon has in its plans long term. Given the possibility of Amazon partnering with or even taking over part/all of DHL, rivaling FedEx/UPS, this could reveal a lot. Perhaps they may not be ready to make announcements until they have firm fleet plans, partnerships, or possible acquisitions in line. Amazon has not disclosed any details of the project since the original announcement, but given all the large aircraft order and DHL acquisition rumors, obviously a lot is going on behind the scenes.
Not only that, the airport CEO recently cited a passenger figure of 11-13 million by 2021 with 4-5% growth thereafter, which seems quite ambitious to say the least and is big change from the 9 million figure cited earlier. This is a change within the past few months, which indicates that they might have had to rethink parts of the terminal plan as well. (I also wonder what is causing this increase in expected growth, a 2-4 million increase is quite a lot..., but the amount of stores/restaurants being added confirms that they are expecting the current growth to be maintained for at least a few more years)
I am not sure who to contact and try to find out if there is a timeframe for the release of the master plan, but I am going to try my best to figure out what is going on.
ADrum23 wrote:cvgComair wrote:ADrum23 wrote:What is going on with the CVG master plan? Nothing has been posted and it is now Q2 of 2018. If they want to finish the new master plan by winter, they got to be releasing something new here right?
I have no clue, they were supposed to release the first set of documents last fall, yet nothing is out. They were already starting on initial changes for the master plan in mid-2016, but it was originally a shorter term than the full 2050 master plan.
The only thing I can think of is that Amazon is not ready to disclose more details about the project. By 2050, the full build out of the facility will be long complete (est for 2025-2028) and numerous expansions could have occurred by then. This plan is essentially going to reveal what Amazon has in its plans long term. Given the possibility of Amazon partnering with or even taking over part/all of DHL, rivaling FedEx/UPS, this could reveal a lot. Perhaps they may not be ready to make announcements until they have firm fleet plans, partnerships, or possible acquisitions in line. Amazon has not disclosed any details of the project since the original announcement, but given all the large aircraft order and DHL acquisition rumors, obviously a lot is going on behind the scenes.
Not only that, the airport CEO recently cited a passenger figure of 11-13 million by 2021 with 4-5% growth thereafter, which seems quite ambitious to say the least and is big change from the 9 million figure cited earlier. This is a change within the past few months, which indicates that they might have had to rethink parts of the terminal plan as well. (I also wonder what is causing this increase in expected growth, a 2-4 million increase is quite a lot..., but the amount of stores/restaurants being added confirms that they are expecting the current growth to be maintained for at least a few more years)
I am not sure who to contact and try to find out if there is a timeframe for the release of the master plan, but I am going to try my best to figure out what is going on.
That’s really interesting about Amazon potentially buying DHL, I never knew that was in the cards. Would that negate the need to build at least part of the proposed Amazon cargo facility?
As for the pax growth, WN entering the market and DL subsequently responding is what is causing the growth IMO (and will drive most of the growth for the next few years). By 2021, I think WN will have full access to their network from CVG and increased frequencies on existing routes (for example, I’m pretty sure they’ll add a morning and perhaps an afternoon flight to the recently announced Denver service). How much will DL continue to respond though? Who knows. I wonder if they’ll ever get back to at least 100 flights a day. They got all that gate space in B going to waste.....
DeltaRules wrote:IND-CDG goes year-round: https://news.delta.com/more-delta-nonst ... and-europe
If it's fair to assume this is a sign DL thinks the route is going to be a success, c'moooooooooooooon, Joe Nardone.
cvgComair wrote:ADrum23 wrote:cvgComair wrote:I have no clue, they were supposed to release the first set of documents last fall, yet nothing is out. They were already starting on initial changes for the master plan in mid-2016, but it was originally a shorter term than the full 2050 master plan.
The only thing I can think of is that Amazon is not ready to disclose more details about the project. By 2050, the full build out of the facility will be long complete (est for 2025-2028) and numerous expansions could have occurred by then. This plan is essentially going to reveal what Amazon has in its plans long term. Given the possibility of Amazon partnering with or even taking over part/all of DHL, rivaling FedEx/UPS, this could reveal a lot. Perhaps they may not be ready to make announcements until they have firm fleet plans, partnerships, or possible acquisitions in line. Amazon has not disclosed any details of the project since the original announcement, but given all the large aircraft order and DHL acquisition rumors, obviously a lot is going on behind the scenes.
Not only that, the airport CEO recently cited a passenger figure of 11-13 million by 2021 with 4-5% growth thereafter, which seems quite ambitious to say the least and is big change from the 9 million figure cited earlier. This is a change within the past few months, which indicates that they might have had to rethink parts of the terminal plan as well. (I also wonder what is causing this increase in expected growth, a 2-4 million increase is quite a lot..., but the amount of stores/restaurants being added confirms that they are expecting the current growth to be maintained for at least a few more years)
I am not sure who to contact and try to find out if there is a timeframe for the release of the master plan, but I am going to try my best to figure out what is going on.
That’s really interesting about Amazon potentially buying DHL, I never knew that was in the cards. Would that negate the need to build at least part of the proposed Amazon cargo facility?
As for the pax growth, WN entering the market and DL subsequently responding is what is causing the growth IMO (and will drive most of the growth for the next few years). By 2021, I think WN will have full access to their network from CVG and increased frequencies on existing routes (for example, I’m pretty sure they’ll add a morning and perhaps an afternoon flight to the recently announced Denver service). How much will DL continue to respond though? Who knows. I wonder if they’ll ever get back to at least 100 flights a day. They got all that gate space in B going to waste.....
I should clarify, the idea is that Amazon will buy one or more of DHL/Amazon's operators (Atlas, ABX, or ATI), semi-merging the two airlines' operations. The DHL in Germany would still be itself, but Amazon could essentially become the main operator of DHL Americas. Also, DHL is testing its own ground delivery services in the US, which would allow Amazon to completely bypass FedEx/UPS. There are so many ways they could do this, but I think it is clear DHL was a big reason they chose CVG.
As far as pax, I agree that DL and WN are going to be the primary drivers of growth. Both carriers have lots of room to grow and I don't see F9 or G4 going anywhere soon. I would argue DL cut way too low years ago, but it remains to be seen how much they will add back. WN had a rough start, but it appears they are happy with the progress and are starting to add more destinations. Once they get built up more, then they will become a much more viable alternative for fliers.
cvgatc wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:cvgComair wrote:Interesting article about passenger bleed coming to CVG being mostly from SDF/LEX rather than IND/DAY/CMH. It does make sense since LEX/SDF are only 1-1.5 hrs from Cincinnati, but I would have figured DAY would have topped the list. Though, SDF/LEX really don't have any close alternatives, whereas DAY is probably split between CMH/IND/CVG. https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/flyin ... ups?page=2
One thing pointed out in our visit to DAY last week was that the airport, though there's been bleed to CVG, still draws well from as far down as the Mason area. Having to drive through Downtown Cincinnati, especially at rush hour, is a deterrent working against CVG.
boscmh wrote:I have to say I really like what Joe Nardone has been doing with the CRAA so far!
WWads wrote:Just booked the restored DCA-CVG Saturday service for June. Nice to have that option back, as it allows me to get in for my HS reunion without having to leave the office early/fight all the DYKWIA types that crowd DCA on Fridays.
Hopefully it sticks. It's starting with CR9s, which is a good sign.
cledaybuck wrote:I know WN has mentioned LGA-CMH in the past. Any chance we get it now that they acquired some more slots from AS?
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field
cledaybuck wrote:I know WN has mentioned LGA-CMH in the past. Any chance we get it now that they acquired some more slots from AS?
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field
WWads wrote:AA signs are up in B, and they’ve removed the DL-branded seats.
Hopefully DL leaves their logo on the jet bridges just to troll (since they still own the gates technically).
DeltaRules wrote:cledaybuck wrote:I know WN has mentioned LGA-CMH in the past. Any chance we get it now that they acquired some more slots from AS?
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field
I know I'm triggering a very detailed follow-up post analyzing the alternate uses of the slots by suggesting this, but with six round-trips available, I'd figure CMH would be on the short list for at least a couple of them. It certainly helps the chances that the airline itself said last summer they'd like to start it.
I wonder what the response would be from DL and AA, though. The schedule today for both:
DL- 3 E75, 1 E70, 2 CR9
AA- 1 E75, 1 E70, 3 ERJ, 1 CRJ
With places like IND and RDU being DL strongholds and having mainline (per Wiki, anyway), I wonder if they'd throw a 717 on there every now and then.
brooklynchris13 wrote:DeltaRules wrote:cledaybuck wrote:I know WN has mentioned LGA-CMH in the past. Any chance we get it now that they acquired some more slots from AS?
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field
I know I'm triggering a very detailed follow-up post analyzing the alternate uses of the slots by suggesting this, but with six round-trips available, I'd figure CMH would be on the short list for at least a couple of them. It certainly helps the chances that the airline itself said last summer they'd like to start it.
I wonder what the response would be from DL and AA, though. The schedule today for both:
DL- 3 E75, 1 E70, 2 CR9
AA- 1 E75, 1 E70, 3 ERJ, 1 CRJ
With places like IND and RDU being DL strongholds and having mainline (per Wiki, anyway), I wonder if they'd throw a 717 on there every now and then.
Great job CMH on a banner month, hopefully it keeps up and even accelerates. With the growth of the economy in metro Columbus, it was only a matter of time before something started to take-off (pardon the really bad pun). Count me in on the idea that WN will add LGA service, I am curious if it would be one RT a day or 2. I honestly do not know if there is the demand for a morning LGA to CMH flight, or if it can be handled with an AM CMH-LGA departure and evening return.
One very minor item Delta Rules, as I am sure you know, there is no 170 flying for AA any longer unless they were to utilize a back-up house aircraft as a sub. (and I don't even know how often that happens. None-the-less, you got me to research to see if a 170 had magically found its way back and it seems that was a flightaware(?) issue. Tomorrow shows: 3 ERJ 140s; 1 CRJ; and 2 E175s.
I have to wonder what the response would be from DL and AA to WN's entry into the market. Have to think maybe a reduction in frequency but upgrade to all first/business class flying. Have to differentiate product somehow and a 737 vs E140 may actually push some business to WN.
Finally, with Spirits success, is it too soon to serious guesstimate where they may fly next? Or if they will extend the operations time for some of their seasonal flying? Flying out of B the other day, the security line was all the way into the main lobby at about 7am! According to the TSA pre-check agent.. "that all started when Spirit did." Nice to see, but I was very thankful I was not in that line!
September11 wrote:DeltaRules, I spotted a Delta 757 on approach to CMH yesterday afternoon (at around 12:30) ... Can you check into that?
September11 wrote:Columbus Blue Jackets currently uses Swift Air 734s (formerly US Airways) for charter flights? Their owned D9S (formerly Midwest & Texas Air) parked for good?
ricport wrote:With all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, this seems like a no-brainer. .
ricport wrote:One thing that has been on my mind for a while (and forgiveness if it's already been asked & answered here), but why haven't the folks at the Columbus Chamber been knocking on Oscar Munoz's door to get SFO service? With all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, this seems like a no-brainer. And if IND & PIT can support UA SFO service, CMH definitely can. I also think this would be a good investment for UA, as they could lure east coast pax from DL & AA.
izbtmnhd wrote:If it's a "no-brainer" then it would already be in service, no? UA already captures CMH transfer data. Maybe it's not as large of a presence as you think or maybe those companies simply don't travel much.
izbtmnhd wrote:ricport wrote:With all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, this seems like a no-brainer. .
If it's a "no-brainer" then it would already be in service, no? UA already captures CMH transfer data. Maybe it's not as large of a presence as you think or maybe those companies simply don't travel much.
ricport wrote:izbtmnhd wrote:ricport wrote:With all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, this seems like a no-brainer. .
If it's a "no-brainer" then it would already be in service, no? UA already captures CMH transfer data. Maybe it's not as large of a presence as you think or maybe those companies simply don't travel much.
Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?
DeltaRules wrote:ricport wrote:izbtmnhd wrote:
If it's a "no-brainer" then it would already be in service, no? UA already captures CMH transfer data. Maybe it's not as large of a presence as you think or maybe those companies simply don't travel much.
Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?
United's been a distant fourth at CMH for a while (and could conceivably fall to fifth depending on how NK does), but I'm still surprised they added DTW and CVG-SFO before CMH. Granted, there could be valid reasons for that, but they had years to do it even before WN started OAK and didn't.
StuckinCMHland wrote:DeltaRules wrote:ricport wrote:
Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?
United's been a distant fourth at CMH for a while (and could conceivably fall to fifth depending on how NK does), but I'm still surprised they added DTW and CVG-SFO before CMH. Granted, there could be valid reasons for that, but they had years to do it even before WN started OAK and didn't.
{cynic} Maybe its because UA's feelings are hurt because they are stuffed in a tiny corner of Concourse B and its the longest walk in the airport from a TSA station. But at least you can get a Starbuck's coffee and finish it before you get to the gate.{/cynic}
UA has no interest in CMH unless you want to take a regional or maybe 1 A320 a day to ORD or IAD, or maybe by some miracle to EWR. AC occasionally has a flight to YYZ for a change of pace. It is very discouraging. The way things are they might as well just close up shop and leave so the airport authority could find a real airline to use the gates, but OTOH, nobody wants to use two or three gates with no jet bridges anyway.
September11 wrote:People would go crazy to jump on a Virgin America CMH-SFO flight.
StuckinCMHland wrote:DeltaRules wrote:ricport wrote:
Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?
United's been a distant fourth at CMH for a while (and could conceivably fall to fifth depending on how NK does), but I'm still surprised they added DTW and CVG-SFO before CMH. Granted, there could be valid reasons for that, but they had years to do it even before WN started OAK and didn't.
{cynic} Maybe its because UA's feelings are hurt because they are stuffed in a tiny corner of Concourse B and its the longest walk in the airport from a TSA station. But at least you can get a Starbuck's coffee and finish it before you get to the gate.{/cynic}
UA has no interest in CMH unless you want to take a regional or maybe 1 A320 a day to ORD or IAD, or maybe by some miracle to EWR. AC occasionally has a flight to YYZ for a change of pace. It is very discouraging. The way things are they might as well just close up shop and leave so the airport authority could find a real airline to use the gates, but OTOH, nobody wants to use two or three gates with no jet bridges anyway.
StuckinCMHland wrote:DeltaRules wrote:ricport wrote:
Or, is it just that Honda, et.al. are sending all of their business to AA & DL?
United's been a distant fourth at CMH for a while (and could conceivably fall to fifth depending on how NK does), but I'm still surprised they added DTW and CVG-SFO before CMH. Granted, there could be valid reasons for that, but they had years to do it even before WN started OAK and didn't.
{cynic} Maybe its because UA's feelings are hurt because they are stuffed in a tiny corner of Concourse B and its the longest walk in the airport from a TSA station. But at least you can get a Starbuck's coffee and finish it before you get to the gate.{/cynic}
UA has no interest in CMH unless you want to take a regional or maybe 1 A320 a day to ORD or IAD, or maybe by some miracle to EWR. AC occasionally has a flight to YYZ for a change of pace. It is very discouraging. The way things are they might as well just close up shop and leave so the airport authority could find a real airline to use the gates, but OTOH, nobody wants to use two or three gates with no jet bridges anyway.
TOLEDO, Ohio, April 25, 2018 – The Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority reports a 40.7 percent increase in passenger traffic at Toledo Express Airport in March 2018 when compared to the same month last year. Last month, 27,709 passengers flew through the airport, which is the highest monthly passenger count the airport has seen since March 2008. American Airlines showed a 122.89 percent increase for the month of March when compared to March 2017, largely due to the addition of the new twice daily route to Charlotte. Allegiant also showed a positive increase for the month of March, with a 10.15 percent increase over the same month last year.
flyinryan99 wrote:TOL was up 40.7% in March of 2018 over March 2017. Currently, YTD 67,370 passengers have passed through TOL which is up 40% yoy.