What's Going In CLE - 2018

masseybrown · Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:33 pm

Some nice surprises from the AA schedulers. Instead of reducing CLT by one flight in September, they are increasing the schedule by one A319. PHL will lose one E145. DFW goes to 3 738s, with only 2 MD80s left. Net of all this is a seat *increase* for the fall season.

csizmpl · Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:45 pm

greenair727 wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
762 from CUN 4:26PM
762 from MBJ 5:33PM
78M from KEF 6:14PM

FlightAware update: they're bunching up

762 from PUJ (not CUN) - 6:04PM
762 from MBJ - 6:17PM
78M from KEF - 7:02PM

Interesting. Imaging if the KEF flight wasn't late? We'd have three aircraft all arriving within a 13-minute period.

How nimble is the TSA? For situations like this, could they shift some staff from A/B/C down to the FIS?

Actually the KEF flight was not late. For some strange reason Flightaware shows the scheduled arrival of ICE837 as 6:14 pm. It's actually scheduled for a 7:14 pm arrival and typically arrives between 6:50 and 7:30

greenair727 · Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:45 pm

[threeid][/threeid]

masseybrown wrote:
Some nice surprises from the AA schedulers. Instead of reducing CLT by one flight in September, they are increasing the schedule by one A319. PHL will lose one E145. DFW goes to 3 738s, with only 2 MD80s left. Net of all this is a seat *increase* for the fall season.

And it was interesting to see some slight adds from UA as well--these flights usually start later in the year:

*UA CLE-FLL JAN 0>0.7 FEB 0>0.9
*UA CLE-RSW JAN 0>0.7 FEB 0>0.9

Midwestindy · Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:14 pm

greenair727 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
masseybrown wrote:
Some nice surprises from the AA schedulers. Instead of reducing CLT by one flight in September, they are increasing the schedule by one A319. PHL will lose one E145. DFW goes to 3 738s, with only 2 MD80s left. Net of all this is a seat *increase* for the fall season.

And it was interesting to see some slight adds from UA as well--these flights usually start later in the year:

*UA CLE-FLL JAN 0>0.7 FEB 0>0.9
*UA CLE-RSW JAN 0>0.7 FEB 0>0.9

Same frequency and schedule as last year.

ncflyer · Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:58 pm

Not true midwestindy. For instance 5 to dfw was new this summer. For it to continue year round, and without the a319 is a nice boost.

Judging by enilirias post this week AA is making some slight shifts from PHL to CLt in a bunch of markets.

Midwestindy · Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:30 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Not true midwestindy. For instance 5 to dfw was new this summer. For it to continue year round, and without the a319 is a nice boost.

Judging by enilirias post this week AA is making some slight shifts from PHL to CLt in a bunch of markets.

I was talking about the UA changes the poster before me talked about

greenair727 · Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:33 pm

^Re the UA flights, I though UA brought those back later than Jan. I may have been mistaken.

Midwestindy · Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:43 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^Re the UA flights, I though UA brought those back later than Jan. I may have been mistaken.

Yeah, I just looked through the DOT data for January and February of this year. They both were ran on a mix of 737s

masseybrown · Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:11 pm

A poster on another board said Swift Air 767-300 (ex-Qantas) appeared in CLE in an updated version of the old EA livery. Wish I'd seen this one

csizmpl · Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:53 am

She has done multiple trips to CLE on both the PUJ/Punta Cana as well as MBJ/Montego Bay runs. Tail number N796JM which as of 5/14 has a pending number change to N708KW. Here's a shot of her rolling out after a late afternoon landing on CLE Runway 24R. Originally built and delivered to British Airways in July of 1990, acquired by Qantas in 2000 and Dynamic Airways in 2014 she is now flying as part of the Eastern Airlines LLC fleet.

Classic Gem Rolling Out! - Eastern Airlines LLC N796JM Boeing 767-336 on KCLE Runway 24R by p.csizmadia, on Flickr

masseybrown · Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:15 pm

Very nice photo - is that CLE? What are all the piles of dirt?

csizmpl · Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:32 pm

Thanks and yes it is. There is a good amount of airfield construction going on. Number of taxiways are closed, Runway 10/28 is closed till November, large sewer pipes appear to be going in on the west side of Runway 6R/24L and then some

masseybrown · Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:46 pm

CLE filed the 2017 CATS financial report a couple of weeks ahead of the deadline. Pretty much all good news.

Category ............ 2017 .... 2016 (in millions)

Pax Aero Revenue 75.8 .... 81.5
Non pax Aero Rev 17.1 ....12.8
Non Aero Rev ........57.7 .... 48.7
Total Op.Revenue ...145.7 ....143.0
Op Expenses ........138.9 ....134.4
Op. Income ........... 6.7 ....8.6
Non-op Rev ........... 29.3 .... -6.0 (loss)

(Included in Non-op Revs Interest 28.0 ...28.0 Pax Facility Charge 16.6 ....18.5)

Net debt ............. 684.6 .... 724.3
Cost per Emplanement ... 17.13 ....19.70

I'm not sure why Pax Facility Charges fell on a higher number of pax. Also I'm a little disappointed debt didn't decrease more, but maybe that is a matter of redemption timing - or maybe rolling over more debt than necessary to take advantage of lower rates. Anyway getting the debt down another 40 million well into the 600's is very positive; the bond rating services should up the credit rating.

Note the big swing in revenues from passenger airlines to concessionaires. All in all, very nice news.

ncflyer · Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:37 pm

Would that debt include what UA specifically owes still for D? Or would UA account for that separately.

masseybrown · Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:18 pm

^ When D was built, CO guaranteed that portion of the airport's bonded debt, which was efficient since the airport could get a better interest rate than CO could. This may still be the case with UA, although there have been a couple of re-negotiations along the way.

masseybrown · Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:20 pm

Looking at international arrivals, Friday may have been a problem. Any witnesses?

MBJ arr. 7:09PM 762
KEF arr 7:21PM 78M

Things are nicely spaced for Saturday

FAB arr. 12:00n (Farnborough, UK)
CUN arr 1:53PM
YUL arr. 5:37PM (exec. jet)
CUN arr 7:24PM
YYC arr 10:12PM (exec. jet)
YYC arr 10:45PM (exec. jet)
KEF arr 11:20PM

greenair727 · Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:00 am

^I'm not a witness to Friday, but curious about the FAB flight above---was that an exec jet as well? or a full charter?

greenair727 · Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:23 am

Looking at Flightaware, there are five flights all leaving at noon tomorrow from Burke to Centennial, Colorado. That's pretty unusual. Same flight plan filed 5 times (though with different aircraft) or something going on?

masseybrown · Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:22 am

greenair727 wrote:
^I'm not a witness to Friday, but curious about the FAB flight above---was that an exec jet as well? or a full charter?

Dubai Air Wing 737-700 biz jet.

greenair727 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:31 pm

With a $40M drop in debt levels and if $100m or so of the existing $680M is being paid directly by UA, there's certainly enough ability to spend $17M or $40M for a decent FIS, which the city could leverage for mainland Europe or other services.

masseybrown · Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:52 pm

^ It may be that the domestic airlines serving CLE object to spending that much to benefit a couple of flights a day. Under federal funding rules for airports, they all pay for any improvements. You don't want WN threatening to pull 10 domestic flights in order to get one more international in the door.

New topic: CLE has added number of flights and landed weight to their monthly statistics. April (pax up 8.6% over 2017) is posted. It may be that a CLE staffer or two read this thread. If so, thanks for the data; more is better. :smile:

ncflyer · Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 pm

I don't know where this stands but in 2016 KEF was announced by DHS as one of 11 airports on the short list of conversion to pre-clearance. Announcement was made under the Obama administration, if that matters. Pre-clearance would be a game changer on the Iceland flights at least, and would make it even harder for the airlines to agree to approve FIS improvement.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/11/04/dhs ... -following

CLEguy · Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:22 pm

ncflyer wrote:
I don't know where this stands but in 2016 KEF was announced by DHS as one of 11 airports on the short list of conversion to pre-clearance. Announcement was made under the Obama administration, if that matters. Pre-clearance would be a game changer on the Iceland flights at least, and would make it even harder for the airlines to agree to approve FIS improvement.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/11/04/dhs ... -following

Our connections at KEF on FI were so short, I couldn't imagine pre-clearance working unless they added significantly more time between the arrival banks and departure banks. CBP certainly does not work quickly; plus what about checked baggage. I know in YYZ, you no longer had to claim your bags and recheck them, but I'm not sure how that works at other pre-clearance airports. I just wish CLE would find an adequate short-term or, even better, long-term fix for the FIS situation.

CLEguy · Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:55 pm

Should be fun at the FIS again tonight, Frontier's greatly delayed flight from CUN arrives a few minutes earlier (19.26) than Icelandair's also delayed arrival from KEF (19.41).

https://www.flightstats.com/v2/flight-t ... =964153017

https://www.flightstats.com/v2/flight-t ... =963854109

oceancrosser · Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:44 pm

I was a passenger on FI837 KEF-CLE on June 25. Does the director of the CLE Airport have an email address to receive complaints?

It took 1 hour 10 minutes from block in to getting our luggage. Never mind the TSA re-screening required to get back into the A concourse, I found the behavior of the CBP agents at the FIS rude and unprofessional (even to the FI flight crew). It wasn't clear where to get our bags once we were at baggage claim (the FI inbound flight wasn't displayed and the bags were on the same carousel as an arriving Allegiant aircraft from Florida).

CLE really needs to improve this mess. The inbound FI crew was never in Cleveland, and while I tried to explain all the positives of our region to them (a region that often fails to reach it's potential) their first experiences here were embarrassing. Not a good impression.

ncflyer · Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:06 pm

Isn't luggage delivery the responsibility of the airline, not the airport? My guess is it's an undersized contracted staff and their first responsibility--- how they are measured--- is getting the outbound flight on its way on a timely basis (the turn is very tight for both Icelandic carriers)- there are no DOT stats on timely luggage delivery unfortunately. So they are getting the outbound luggage loaded first and foremost. This is only my theory I have no data.

What is the airport's role in improving this? When I have negative experiences with luggage on domestic flights, my mind usually points to the airline-- yet in this situation people point to the airport?

Lemieux · Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:39 pm

For anyone interested, AA 70 DFW-FRA diverted to CLE if you wanna grab some pics.

CLEguy · Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:06 am

ncflyer wrote:
Isn't luggage delivery the responsibility of the airline, not the airport? My guess is it's an undersized contracted staff and their first responsibility--- how they are measured--- is getting the outbound flight on its way on a timely basis (the turn is very tight for both Icelandic carriers)- there are no DOT stats on timely luggage delivery unfortunately. So they are getting the outbound luggage loaded first and foremost. This is only my theory I have no data.

What is the airport's role in improving this? When I have negative experiences with luggage on domestic flights, my mind usually points to the airline-- yet in this situation people point to the airport?

This is correct. Director Kennedy is aware of these problems and is working with the airlines and their contractors, as well as with the two federal agencies involved, at improving the customer experience. It certainly needs to improve!

CLEguy · Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:12 am

oceancrosser wrote:
I was a passenger on FI837 KEF-CLE on June 25. Does the director of the CLE Airport have an email address to receive complaints?

It took 1 hour 10 minutes from block in to getting our luggage. Never mind the TSA re-screening required to get back into the A concourse, I found the behavior of the CBP agents at the FIS rude and unprofessional (even to the FI flight crew). It wasn't clear where to get our bags once we were at baggage claim (the FI inbound flight wasn't displayed and the bags were on the same carousel as an arriving Allegiant aircraft from Florida).

CLE really needs to improve this mess. The inbound FI crew was never in Cleveland, and while I tried to explain all the positives of our region to them (a region that often fails to reach it's potential) their first experiences here were embarrassing. Not a good impression.

I would address your complaints directly to Icelandair and CBP and copy Director Kennedy on your correspondence. My 72 year-old brother, who was in a wheelchair, arrived from KEF and was subjected to "special handling" by CBP, along with a family of four, for no logical reason. They scrutinized everything in his bag and wallet, including credit cards and currency! While very polite, he said they still made him feel like a criminal.

jetpixx · Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:32 am

Looks like AA70, the B777, took off, and then a FX1346, an A306, was right behind it for departure. For a brief second, it was like the 80's or early 90's at KCLE - lol. Wow...and UPS1445, a 757, was right before the Triple 7.

More editing to this post...wow, late night is where it is at for CLE today.

After the 752, 777 and A306 departures...there is a FX 752 to KIND, a FX 752 to KEWR...a Sun Country 738 to KGPT...the WOW 321 to KEF. Outstanding late-night ops.

greenair727 · Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:09 pm

Lemieux wrote:
For anyone interested, AA 70 DFW-FRA diverted to CLE if you wanna grab some pics.

Interesting. We don't see many AA diversions in CLE---why'd they choose CLE over say ORD? Was CLE the closest airport and they had to get down fast?

SgtBarone · Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:11 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Lemieux wrote:
For anyone interested, AA 70 DFW-FRA diverted to CLE if you wanna grab some pics.

Interesting. We don't see many AA diversions in CLE---why'd they choose CLE over say ORD? Was CLE the closest airport and they had to get down fast?

Flight attendant medical issue:

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Ameri ... 79661.html

masseybrown · Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:13 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Interesting. We don't see many AA diversions in CLE---why'd they choose CLE over say ORD? Was CLE the closest airport and they had to get down fast?

That or medical.

csizmpl · Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:15 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
Lemieux wrote:
For anyone interested, AA 70 DFW-FRA diverted to CLE if you wanna grab some pics.

Interesting. We don't see many AA diversions in CLE---why'd they choose CLE over say ORD? Was CLE the closest airport and they had to get down fast?

Flight attendant medical issue:

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Ameri ... 79661.html

AA70's typical flight track takes it through a corridor that stretches from CVG and PIT on the South and CLE on the North. Heavy weather over DAY and CMH last night forced the track further North. Flightaware track for last night https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KDFW/EDDF

csizmpl · Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:24 pm

jetpixx wrote:
Looks like AA70, the B777, took off, and then a FX1346, an A306, was right behind it for departure. For a brief second, it was like the 80's or early 90's at KCLE - lol. Wow...and UPS1445, a 757, was right before the Triple 7.

More editing to this post...wow, late night is where it is at for CLE today.

After the 752, 777 and A306 departures...there is a FX 752 to KIND, a FX 752 to KEWR...a Sun Country 738 to KGPT...the WOW 321 to KEF. Outstanding late-night ops.

Aside from AA70 B772 and the Sun Country 738, that's typical night ops at CLE.

csizmpl · Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:37 pm

For those that like to see night ops at CLE -

FedEx Lights on Rollout! - FedEx Express N669FE Airbus A300F4-605R shows off it's lights as it rolls out after a KCLE Runway 24R landing. @cle_airport by p.csizmadia, on Flickr

'Nevada One' at CLE! - Southwest Airlines N727SW Boeing 737-7H4 'Nevada One' on a rainy night in Cleveland by p.csizmadia, on Flickr

CLEguy · Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:48 pm

Anyone get a shot of the AA 777-200? Please share!

jetpixx · Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:25 am

csizmpl wrote:
For those that like to see night ops at CLE -

FedEx Lights on Rollout! - FedEx Express N669FE Airbus A300F4-605R shows off it's lights as it rolls out after a KCLE Runway 24R landing. @cle_airport by p.csizmadia, on Flickr

'Nevada One' at CLE! - Southwest Airlines N727SW Boeing 737-7H4 'Nevada One' on a rainy night in Cleveland by p.csizmadia, on Flickr

Very cool. Great pics!

Trk1 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:08 pm

WN winter 2019. flights

Las 1
Phx. 1
Den 1
Mke 2
Stl. 2
Mdw. 4
Bwi 3
Bna 2
Atl. 2

18 total

greenair727 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:18 pm

^Thanks. How is this different than current levels of service? No MCI which I was hoping for....

Trk1 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:33 pm

cut of 3

masseybrown · Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:37 pm

^ Down 2 MDW and 1 BNA. The usual Saturday MCO (year round) and RSW (seasonal) will also operate.

ncflyer · Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:46 pm

In recent winters MDW has had 5 flights. 4 has got to be the fewest flights to MDW since the station opened, in spite of the fact that Chicago is CLE's #1 destination. People hoping for WN to MCI, HOU, DAL--- or even more of a prayer SAN and OAK--- WN just can't make it any clearer what the CLE station means to them.

N766UA · Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:47 pm

[twoid][/twoid]

greenair727 wrote:
^Thanks. How is this different than current levels of service? No MCI which I was hoping for....

Can someone explain why MCI is so sought-after in this thread? It's mentioned over and over. Of all the places people hope for, MCI makes the least sense to me... there's nothing there.

masseybrown · Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:54 pm

ncflyer wrote:
In recent winters MDW has had 5 flights. 4 has got to be the fewest flights to MDW since the station opened, in spite of the fact that Chicago is CLE's #1 destination.

Take a look at the WN sked ext. thread. MDW is down to lots of destinations. I don't think it's a CLE problem.

greenair727 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:50 pm

N766UA wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
greenair727 wrote:
^Thanks. How is this different than current levels of service? No MCI which I was hoping for....

Can someone explain why MCI is so sought-after in this thread? It's mentioned over and over. Of all the places people hope for, MCI makes the least sense to me... there's nothing there.

Til Smisek came along, CLE had good service to MCI---its now about 100 PDEW (after dropping from the non-stop days)---not a small market. Now, a two-hour flight is a 4-8 trip with a connection. There are business connections between the two cities.

ncflyer · Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:55 pm

Definitely MDW is being cut to many places, I just noticed that myself.

But I also note that DAL is getting a bunch of new daily markets and CLE is not among them. Jacksonville and Louisville and Charleston over CLE?????

Charleston (CHS)
Ft. Myers/Naples (RSW)
Jacksonville (JAX)
Louisville (SDF)
Milwaukee (MKE)
Minneapolis/St. Paul (MSP)
Panama City Beach (ECP)

SgtBarone · Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:00 pm

I think we're only down one frequency from last winter...MDW was previously 5x daily and BNA was 2x daily.

csizmpl · Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:06 pm

jetpixx wrote:
csizmpl wrote:
For those that like to see night ops at CLE -

FedEx Lights on Rollout! - FedEx Express N669FE Airbus A300F4-605R shows off it's lights as it rolls out after a KCLE Runway 24R landing. @cle_airport by p.csizmadia, on Flickr

'Nevada One' at CLE! - Southwest Airlines N727SW Boeing 737-7H4 'Nevada One' on a rainy night in Cleveland by p.csizmadia, on Flickr

Very cool. Great pics!

Thanks! - If you're on Instagram you can see more of my work at @paul.csizmadia Good amount of CLE and DFW

ncflyer · Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:22 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
I think we're only down one frequency from last winter...MDW was previously 5x daily and BNA was 2x daily.

I guess I'm glass half empty then. You say "only down one frequency", I say 20% drop in capacity to lowest levels to Chicago Midway the station has seen since it's been open, to the best of my recollection (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

Furthermore PIT/CMH/ even CVG retain 5 flights to Midway. Maybe it's the case that UA controls too much of the Chicago market and has far more seats to CLE than they do other similar markets.

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