If the Colts could get their act together and become a snazzy little team again, Allegiant could do some pop up day trips to some of their away games in the fall.

Allegiant has extended its schedule through the middle of February
Here are some monthly frequency changes
December '17-'18
IND-AUS=9-11
IND-FLL=13-14
IND-JAX=9-10
IND-LAS=9-11
IND-SFB=17-12
IND-PGD=16-26
IND-SRQ=0-9
IND-PIE= 31-26

You won't see any large increases until G4 gets more planes back into the fleet

Midwestindy wrote:

Allegiant has extended its schedule through the middle of February
Here are some monthly frequency changes
December '17-'18
IND-AUS=9-11
IND-FLL=13-14
IND-JAX=9-10
IND-LAS=9-11
IND-SFB=17-12
IND-PGD=16-26
IND-SRQ=0-9
IND-PIE= 31-26

You won't see any large increases until G4 gets more planes back into the fleet

I find it weird how IND-AZA wasn't added back on the schedules. It's still listed as a seasonal route on their site. Maybe some of their schedule is still left out perhaps.

zackary747 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Allegiant has extended its schedule through the middle of February
Here are some monthly frequency changes
December '17-'18
IND-AUS=9-11
IND-FLL=13-14
IND-JAX=9-10
IND-LAS=9-11
IND-SFB=17-12
IND-PGD=16-26
IND-SRQ=0-9
IND-PIE= 31-26

You won't see any large increases until G4 gets more planes back into the fleet

I find it weird how IND-AZA wasn't added back on the schedules. It's still listed as a seasonal route on their site. Maybe some of their schedule is still left out perhaps.

The a/c eats up a lot of time on this route, so I am not surprised

SFB seams really low?

ibthebigd wrote:

SFB seams really low?

Probably feeling the burn from F9/WN/DL

Does anyone know the G4/WN load factors on IND-MSY? There's a lot of route cutting assumptions going on for MSY. Just curious how well IND is performing on that route.

Year to date load factor through Feb for IND to/from MSY on G4 was 61.2%. No surprise if it is being cut permanently. WN in first month of service this year was 65.2% full.

zackary747 wrote:

Does anyone know the G4/WN load factors on IND-MSY? There's a lot of route cutting assumptions going on for MSY. Just curious how well IND is performing on that route.

2017
G4
IND-MSY-74.8%
MSY-IND-75.1%

WN
IND-MSY-60.0%
MSY-IND-89.9%

2018
G4
IND-MSY-62.0%
MSY-IND-60.5%

WN
IND-MSY-38.9%
MSY-IND-91.4%

Midwestindy wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

Does anyone know the G4/WN load factors on IND-MSY? There's a lot of route cutting assumptions going on for MSY. Just curious how well IND is performing on that route.

2017
G4
IND-MSY-74.8%
MSY-IND-75.1%

WN
IND-MSY-60.0%
MSY-IND-89.9%

2018
G4
IND-MSY-62.0%
MSY-IND-60.5%

WN
IND-MSY-38.9%
MSY-IND-91.4%

Are those 2018 numbers only February??

zackary747 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

Does anyone know the G4/WN load factors on IND-MSY? There's a lot of route cutting assumptions going on for MSY. Just curious how well IND is performing on that route.

2017
G4
IND-MSY-74.8%
MSY-IND-75.1%

WN
IND-MSY-60.0%
MSY-IND-89.9%

2018
G4
IND-MSY-62.0%
MSY-IND-60.5%

WN
IND-MSY-38.9%
MSY-IND-91.4%

Are those 2018 numbers only February??

Yep

If I am reading various news stories correctly, G4 will be adding a ton of new planes between now and the end of 2020. It looks like they will have an all Airbus fleet of 85 planes by the end of 2018. Their projection is a total fleet of 110 by the end of 2020. Does this sound right? That should result in pretty big growth across their network.

Indy wrote:

If I am reading various news stories correctly, G4 will be adding a ton of new planes between now and the end of 2020. It looks like they will have an all Airbus fleet of 85 planes by the end of 2018. Their projection is a total fleet of 110 by the end of 2020. Does this sound right? That should result in pretty big growth across their network.

Yeah, they will be growing substantially in the coming years, they are on a hiring freeze on new pilots right now since they are losing so many aircraft. Either way the IND base will be at 3 aircraft by the summer, and is supposed to continue to grow as G4 gets more a/c

In reading about the 3 aircraft based here, is it definite that in-flight crews are based here, too, or will they be doing turns in and out of SFB, PIE and beyond and overnighting here as needed? Did anyone notice any mention of this?

stlgph wrote:

In reading about the 3 aircraft based here, is it definite that in-flight crews are based here, too, or will they be doing turns in and out of SFB, PIE and beyond and overnighting here as needed? Did anyone notice any mention of this?

I believe the inflight crews will be based in IND as well, considering I believe inflight crews always overnight at their base and IND is a Flight attendant base along with:
AVL - ASHEVILLE, NC
BLI - BELLINGHAM, WA
CVG - CINCINNATI, OH
FLL - FT. LAUDERDALE, FL
IND - INDIANAPOLIS, IN
IWA - PHOENIX/MESA - AZ
LAS - LAS VEGAS, NV
LAX - LOS ANGELES, CA
OAK - OAKLAND, CA
PGD - PUNTA GORDA, FL
PIE - ST. PETERSBURG/TAMPA, FL
PIT - PITTSBURGH, PA
SFB - SANFORD/ORLANDO, FL
VPS - DESTIN,FL

Here is a sample of a rotation for July:
7AM IND-CHS-IND-VPS-IND-PIE-IND
730AM IND-SFB-IND-JAX-CLE-JAX-IND
801AM IND-PGD-IND-LAS-IND

stlgph wrote:

In reading about the 3 aircraft based here, is it definite that in-flight crews are based here, too, or will they be doing turns in and out of SFB, PIE and beyond and overnighting here as needed? Did anyone notice any mention of this?

I flew IND-MYR last month and the crew both ways was Indianapolis based.

Would have flown the route from FWA, but G4 had different schedules from the two cities and it wasn’t available from FWA at the time I wanted to go. I still love my FWA, but I think IND has a great terminal - and they are one of the few airports with enough power outlets at the gate. The folks at the IAA run a great airport and it shows.

FWAERJ wrote:

The folks at the IAA run a great airport and it shows.

Beats the heck out of the old BAA days and the days of the early leadership at the new IND terminal.

Not sure on if crews 100% do not overnight, but in the past Allegiant always seemed to be "come and go" on the crews overnighting issue. For a while it was everyone was at home at night then there were the Peoria overnights. Then when Orlando started growing, crews started overnighting in Allentown and then Richmond, etc. I remember Peoria was a popular bid, especially for Monday night out and Wednesday back as Peoria did not have Tues flights to Las Vegas, and the crews said the per diem on an overnight was pretty good, so they'd get paid a nice healthy amount and sit around the hotel and not do much except catch up on reading, exercising at the hotel gym, some flight attendants talked about doing their online classes.

Then the schedules changed and those overnights went away.

Then they changed again, and overnights started to come back slowly here and there.

But as the number of bases has grown in recent years, you know, things change, again and the need for crews to overnight for positioning may have gone away.

So, in short, if you said sometimes crews overnight, I wouldn't be surprised, if you said they don't overnight at all, I wouldn't be surprised.

Less than a week away, and the IND-CDG flight starts!
Here to hope it performs well, and lasts for IND!

DL has extended its 10 daily service to ATL through the beginning of November, added 4x daily mainline on IND-MSP (738, 717, 2x739ER) for most of November, and extended its weird flight times for the IND-RDU flight
UA has extended IND-DEN 738 service through the end of November, added 2x daily A319/A320 IND-ORD in November, and upguaged one IND-SFO flight to the A320

I wonder how bookings on IND-SEA on DL are?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

ibthebigd wrote:

I wonder how bookings on IND-SEA on DL are?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Probably will have to wait a little while, considering the seat maps won't be very accurate

https://www.ibj.com/articles/68840-hube ... or-takeoff
Looks like the FedEx deal is coming together: "FedEx is working closely with the Indianapolis Airport Authority, state and local officials on a $1.5 billion expansion plan for this facility over the next seven years."

Unfortunately that story told a whole lot of nothing. Honestly, it was a lot of gibberish. I was really hoping it would shed some light on the new project but it really doesn't.

For those curious, IND-CDG on Thursday (5/24) has 38 open seats, mainly in the main cabin (36), Delta One has (2). On the return, a bit of a different story. CDG-IND on Friday (5/25) the flight has 100 seats remaining, 2 in Delta One, 12 in Delta Comfort+ and the remainder in the main cabin.

indygs wrote:

For those curious, IND-CDG on Thursday (5/24) has 38 open seats, mainly in the main cabin (36), Delta One has (2). On the return, a bit of a different story. CDG-IND on Friday (5/25) the flight has 100 seats remaining, 2 in Delta One, 12 in Delta Comfort+ and the remainder in the main cabin.

The Europe end will be weak for a minute. Remember the traveling that’s happening on this flight is heavily towards the IND point of sale.

indygs wrote:

For those curious, IND-CDG on Thursday (5/24) has 38 open seats, mainly in the main cabin (36), Delta One has (2). On the return, a bit of a different story. CDG-IND on Friday (5/25) the flight has 100 seats remaining, 2 in Delta One, 12 in Delta Comfort+ and the remainder in the main cabin.

Are you going off of Delta.com?

ibthebigd wrote:

I wonder how bookings on IND-SEA on DL are?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Per my Delta non rev there is 83 seats still avl for the first flight to Seattle. SEA-IND however that same day is 23 seats avl probably the Tech firm and Amazon people

stlgph wrote:

indygs wrote:

For those curious, IND-CDG on Thursday (5/24) has 38 open seats, mainly in the main cabin (36), Delta One has (2). On the return, a bit of a different story. CDG-IND on Friday (5/25) the flight has 100 seats remaining, 2 in Delta One, 12 in Delta Comfort+ and the remainder in the main cabin.

Are you going off of Delta.com?

Going off the 'seats available' from within the app and my reservation on both flights. Realize that may not be 100% correct, but I've found those numbers to be largely on point in previous trips.

indygs wrote:

stlgph wrote:

indygs wrote:

For those curious, IND-CDG on Thursday (5/24) has 38 open seats, mainly in the main cabin (36), Delta One has (2). On the return, a bit of a different story. CDG-IND on Friday (5/25) the flight has 100 seats remaining, 2 in Delta One, 12 in Delta Comfort+ and the remainder in the main cabin.

Are you going off of Delta.com?

Going off the 'seats available' from within the app and my reservation on both flights. Realize that may not be 100% correct, but I've found those numbers to be largely on point in previous trips.

I thought that, too, when I did a last minute work trip last week, saw only 30 seats were booked and booked my spot on the way to the airport - got there, it was oversold and they were taking volunteers.
So go figure.

It wouldn't surprise me if this things ends up going out near or close to "full" for its first run, but being this close to Memorial Day weekend when the 500 is the biggest thing in town all year for Indianapolis ...those are still pretty good numbers.

stlgph wrote:

indygs wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Are you going off of Delta.com?

Going off the 'seats available' from within the app and my reservation on both flights. Realize that may not be 100% correct, but I've found those numbers to be largely on point in previous trips.

I thought that, too, when I did a last minute work trip last week, saw only 30 seats were booked and booked my spot on the way to the airport - got there, it was oversold and they were taking volunteers.
So go figure.

It wouldn't surprise me if this things ends up going out near or close to "full" for its first run, but being this close to Memorial Day weekend when the 500 is the biggest thing in town all year for Indianapolis ...those are still pretty good numbers.

Yes, I've seen that, mainly when at the last minute there's IRROPS on another flight and a large number of people get put on your flight. I suppose if an IND-DTW/ATL/MSP/JFK passenger going to Europe has a delay on the first leg, they can put them on the CDG flight directly.

This brings an interesting question to mind. At stations where airlines are being paid an incentive for filling seats on a new flight, such as IND-CDG, is it actually in DL's best interest to re-route passengers on a connection (ATL, DTW or otherwise) to go straight to CDG to ramp up the load factors for that flight and therefore earn more $$?

indygs wrote:

stlgph wrote:

indygs wrote:

Going off the 'seats available' from within the app and my reservation on both flights. Realize that may not be 100% correct, but I've found those numbers to be largely on point in previous trips.

I thought that, too, when I did a last minute work trip last week, saw only 30 seats were booked and booked my spot on the way to the airport - got there, it was oversold and they were taking volunteers.
So go figure.

It wouldn't surprise me if this things ends up going out near or close to "full" for its first run, but being this close to Memorial Day weekend when the 500 is the biggest thing in town all year for Indianapolis ...those are still pretty good numbers.

Yes, I've seen that, mainly when at the last minute there's IRROPS on another flight and a large number of people get put on your flight. I suppose if an IND-DTW/ATL/MSP/JFK passenger going to Europe has a delay on the first leg, they can put them on the CDG flight directly.

This brings an interesting question to mind. At stations where airlines are being paid an incentive for filling seats on a new flight, such as IND-CDG, is it actually in DL's best interest to re-route passengers on a connection (ATL, DTW or otherwise) to go straight to CDG to ramp up the load factors for that flight and therefore earn more $$?

DL plans on routing more connecting passengers through IND according to the airport director, but I suppose we will hear more about their plans at the inaugural.
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamb ... -rodriguez

Here it goes into some depth about DL's plans: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... er-15.html

Midwestindy wrote:

indygs wrote:

stlgph wrote:

I thought that, too, when I did a last minute work trip last week, saw only 30 seats were booked and booked my spot on the way to the airport - got there, it was oversold and they were taking volunteers.
So go figure.

It wouldn't surprise me if this things ends up going out near or close to "full" for its first run, but being this close to Memorial Day weekend when the 500 is the biggest thing in town all year for Indianapolis ...those are still pretty good numbers.

Yes, I've seen that, mainly when at the last minute there's IRROPS on another flight and a large number of people get put on your flight. I suppose if an IND-DTW/ATL/MSP/JFK passenger going to Europe has a delay on the first leg, they can put them on the CDG flight directly.

This brings an interesting question to mind. At stations where airlines are being paid an incentive for filling seats on a new flight, such as IND-CDG, is it actually in DL's best interest to re-route passengers on a connection (ATL, DTW or otherwise) to go straight to CDG to ramp up the load factors for that flight and therefore earn more $$?

DL plans on routing more connecting passengers through IND according to the airport director, but I suppose we will hear more about their plans at the inaugural.
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamb ... -rodriguez

Here it goes into some depth about DL's plans: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... er-15.html

MidwestIndy, my question is more day of departure. Let's say you're checked in for IND-JFK-LHR. Your IND-JFK flight has posted a 15 minute delay. On paper, you still have enough time to make the connection, but its JFK and you don't know if that 15 minute delay will really be just 15 minutes. You go up to a GA at IND and ask them for alternates. There's a DTW, MSP, BOS, ATL connection, perhaps, but now there's IND-CDG-LHR.

If I'm the station manager at IND, I'm basically saying in all IRROPS cases where there's a connection to the final destination from CDG, I'm re-routing psgrs on the IND-CDG flight to boost my numbers on that flight so Delta gets more $$$. Thinking about this in the context of summer storms and the high likelihood that at least one or two days a week, in my own experience, the IND-JFK leg, for instance, can have a delay like this. I'd imagine there's an incentive on the part of the local team to put as many people on the CDG flight as possible.

indygs wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

indygs wrote:

Yes, I've seen that, mainly when at the last minute there's IRROPS on another flight and a large number of people get put on your flight. I suppose if an IND-DTW/ATL/MSP/JFK passenger going to Europe has a delay on the first leg, they can put them on the CDG flight directly.

This brings an interesting question to mind. At stations where airlines are being paid an incentive for filling seats on a new flight, such as IND-CDG, is it actually in DL's best interest to re-route passengers on a connection (ATL, DTW or otherwise) to go straight to CDG to ramp up the load factors for that flight and therefore earn more $$?

DL plans on routing more connecting passengers through IND according to the airport director, but I suppose we will hear more about their plans at the inaugural.
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamb ... -rodriguez

Here it goes into some depth about DL's plans: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... er-15.html

MidwestIndy, my question is more day of departure. Let's say you're checked in for IND-JFK-LHR. Your IND-JFK flight has posted a 15 minute delay. On paper, you still have enough time to make the connection, but its JFK and you don't know if that 15 minute delay will really be just 15 minutes. You go up to a GA at IND and ask them for alternates. There's a DTW, MSP, BOS, ATL connection, perhaps, but now there's IND-CDG-LHR.

If I'm the station manager at IND, I'm basically saying in all IRROPS cases where there's a connection to the final destination from CDG, I'm re-routing psgrs on the IND-CDG flight to boost my numbers on that flight so Delta gets more $$$. Thinking about this in the context of summer storms and the high likelihood that at least one or two days a week, in my own experience, the IND-JFK leg, for instance, can have a delay like this. I'd imagine there's an incentive on the part of the local team to put as many people on the CDG flight as possible.

Yeah I'd assume so as well

Midwestindy wrote:

indygs wrote:

Yes, I've seen that, mainly when at the last minute there's IRROPS on another flight and a large number of people get put on your flight. I suppose if an IND-DTW/ATL/MSP/JFK passenger going to Europe has a delay on the first leg, they can put them on the CDG flight directly.

This brings an interesting question to mind. At stations where airlines are being paid an incentive for filling seats on a new flight, such as IND-CDG, is it actually in DL's best interest to re-route passengers on a connection (ATL, DTW or otherwise) to go straight to CDG to ramp up the load factors for that flight and therefore earn more $$?

DL plans on routing more connecting passengers through IND according to the airport director, but I suppose we will hear more about their plans at the inaugural.
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamb ... -rodriguez

Here it goes into some depth about DL's plans: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... er-15.html

Why does DL need to send connecting traffic through IND if DL already has the CVG focus city and DTW hub nearby? DL also already serves its ATL, SEA, LAX, SLC, MSP, LGA, and JFK hubs plus its BOS and RDU focus cities nonstop from both CVG and DTW.

Midwestindy wrote:

indygs wrote:

stlgph wrote:

I thought that, too, when I did a last minute work trip last week, saw only 30 seats were booked and booked my spot on the way to the airport - got there, it was oversold and they were taking volunteers.
So go figure.

It wouldn't surprise me if this things ends up going out near or close to "full" for its first run, but being this close to Memorial Day weekend when the 500 is the biggest thing in town all year for Indianapolis ...those are still pretty good numbers.

Yes, I've seen that, mainly when at the last minute there's IRROPS on another flight and a large number of people get put on your flight. I suppose if an IND-DTW/ATL/MSP/JFK passenger going to Europe has a delay on the first leg, they can put them on the CDG flight directly.

This brings an interesting question to mind. At stations where airlines are being paid an incentive for filling seats on a new flight, such as IND-CDG, is it actually in DL's best interest to re-route passengers on a connection (ATL, DTW or otherwise) to go straight to CDG to ramp up the load factors for that flight and therefore earn more $$?

DL plans on routing more connecting passengers through IND according to the airport director, but I suppose we will hear more about their plans at the inaugural.
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamb ... -rodriguez

Here it goes into some depth about DL's plans: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... er-15.html

There's also the possibilities of the "airfare game" - as I call it - creating these connections.

Let's say you live in Atlanta. Sure you can fly to Paris four times a day nonstop on Delta and Air France but if it pops up online for $300 less to fly through Indianapolis and it's just a brief layover - why not?

jplatts wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

indygs wrote:

Yes, I've seen that, mainly when at the last minute there's IRROPS on another flight and a large number of people get put on your flight. I suppose if an IND-DTW/ATL/MSP/JFK passenger going to Europe has a delay on the first leg, they can put them on the CDG flight directly.

This brings an interesting question to mind. At stations where airlines are being paid an incentive for filling seats on a new flight, such as IND-CDG, is it actually in DL's best interest to re-route passengers on a connection (ATL, DTW or otherwise) to go straight to CDG to ramp up the load factors for that flight and therefore earn more $$?

DL plans on routing more connecting passengers through IND according to the airport director, but I suppose we will hear more about their plans at the inaugural.
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamb ... -rodriguez

Here it goes into some depth about DL's plans: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... er-15.html

Why does DL need to send connecting traffic through IND if DL already has the CVG focus city and DTW hub nearby? DL also already serves its ATL, SEA, LAX, SLC, MSP, LGA, and JFK hubs plus its BOS and RDU focus cities nonstop from both CVG and DTW.

It isn't a matter of need, but rather they want to build of sale strength in IND. Adding connecting makes the CDG flight more viable and makes IND's current and future offerings more viable long- term

Midwestindy wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

DL plans on routing more connecting passengers through IND according to the airport director, but I suppose we will hear more about their plans at the inaugural.
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamb ... -rodriguez

Here it goes into some depth about DL's plans: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... er-15.html

Why does DL need to send connecting traffic through IND if DL already has the CVG focus city and DTW hub nearby? DL also already serves its ATL, SEA, LAX, SLC, MSP, LGA, and JFK hubs plus its BOS and RDU focus cities nonstop from both CVG and DTW.

It isn't a matter of need, but rather they want to build of sale strength in IND. Adding connecting makes the CDG flight more viable and makes IND's current and future offerings more viable long- term

In my opinion, starting a non-hub overseas flight like this one should be expected to perform well without having to build feed from other cities. I guess it should be expected that fares from XYZ-IND-CDG might be cheaper than XYZ-ATL/DTW/MSP-CDG?

On the topic of further growth at IND for DL, I find it a bit suspect we've heard nothing. If the idea is to help support the IND-CDG flight which has incentives for 24 months, you'd want to announce any flights that could potentially feed that flight sooner rather than later, I'd think. And with the lead time involved in a new route + shoulder season in just a couple months, I find it hard to believe more will be added soon. But who knows, perhaps DL has something up their sleeve for the launch of the flight.

Flew IND-BOS this AM on WN. A sample set of one, on a Tuesday AM, no less, but there were 47 of us on a WN 737. I know WN cut back a bit on this route of late, and I suppose I can now see why.

It is also Tuesday before Memorial Day. Not exactly peak travel time.

indygs wrote:

On the topic of further growth at IND for DL, I find it a bit suspect we've heard nothing. If the idea is to help support the IND-CDG flight which has incentives for 24 months, you'd want to announce any flights that could potentially feed that flight sooner rather than later, I'd think. And with the lead time involved in a new route + shoulder season in just a couple months, I find it hard to believe more will be added soon. But who knows, perhaps DL has something up their sleeve for the launch of the flight.

Flew IND-BOS this AM on WN. A sample set of one, on a Tuesday AM, no less, but there were 47 of us on a WN 737. I know WN cut back a bit on this route of late, and I suppose I can now see why.

Their whole strategy is thrown off, at this time last year the Cseries was supposed to be flying and that would free up some aircraft for new flying. And now that is obviously not the case.

On the subject of WN on IND-BOS, I don't think they are performing very well. I fly IND-BOS probably once a month and DL is usually at least 80% full, WN is usually around 60% full (although it is hard to tell because some pax are one-stop no plane change or connecting). I'm flying that route this Friday so we will what it looks like. Last year the flight was at an inbound LF of 71.6%, and an outbound LF of 70.5%, so not terrible but not great either. I'd say many wouldn't be too sad if WN dropped IND-BOS as that would allow B6 an easier way into IND.

Midwestindy wrote:

indygs wrote:

On the subject of WN on IND-BOS, I don't think they are performing very well. I fly IND-BOS probably once a month and DL is usually at least 80% full, WN is usually around 60% full (although it is hard to tell because some pax are one-stop no plane change or connecting). I'm flying that route this Friday so we will what it looks like. Last year the flight was at an inbound LF of 71.6%, and an outbound LF of 70.5%, so not terrible but not great either. I'd say many wouldn't be too sad if WN dropped IND-BOS as that would allow B6 an easier way into IND.

I think they'd be far better off restarting IND-DCA and cutting IND-BOS. As you say, that could make it much easier for B6 to come in and put some competition back on the table to DCA. I've struggled to understand WN's schedules on some business markets. I like that they've tried LGA, BOS, and DCA but I think their schedule and lack of frequencies has come to hurt them vs. the legacies that are in each market.

Be happy Southwest is there, or else those airfares will make a tremendous jump. They've been at it for a while now, so I just hope it stays.

indygs wrote:

I think they'd be far better off restarting IND-DCA and cutting IND-BOS. As you say, that could make it much easier for B6 to come in and put some competition back on the table to DCA. I've struggled to understand WN's schedules on some business markets. I like that they've tried LGA, BOS, and DCA but I think their schedule and lack of frequencies has come to hurt them vs. the legacies that are in each market.

Could they be keeping BOS in order to keep B6 out?

stlgph wrote:

Be happy Southwest is there, or else those airfares will make a tremendous jump. They've been at it for a while now, so I just hope it stays.

Totally agree. I was saying the above with the hope B6 would start. But to Indy's point, WN could very well be playing the defensive here. Who knows, perhaps they're also seeing some YOY growth on the route.

indygs wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Be happy Southwest is there, or else those airfares will make a tremendous jump. They've been at it for a while now, so I just hope it stays.

Totally agree. I was saying the above with the hope B6 would start. But to Indy's point, WN could very well be playing the defensive here. Who knows, perhaps they're also seeing some YOY growth on the route.

As long as B6 takes over the route from WN I could care less who else flies it, if WN wasn't on that route B6 would likely be in IND by now.

Indy wrote:

indygs wrote:

I think they'd be far better off restarting IND-DCA and cutting IND-BOS. As you say, that could make it much easier for B6 to come in and put some competition back on the table to DCA. I've struggled to understand WN's schedules on some business markets. I like that they've tried LGA, BOS, and DCA but I think their schedule and lack of frequencies has come to hurt them vs. the legacies that are in each market.

Could they be keeping BOS in order to keep B6 out?

No, b6 will enter ind when it’s ready. Hopefully soon. There are several routes out of Boston with b6, wn and dl. B6 does well in all of them except for atl, but then again everyone is loosing money on that route.

Midwestindy wrote:

indygs wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Be happy Southwest is there, or else those airfares will make a tremendous jump. They've been at it for a while now, so I just hope it stays.

Totally agree. I was saying the above with the hope B6 would start. But to Indy's point, WN could very well be playing the defensive here. Who knows, perhaps they're also seeing some YOY growth on the route.

As long as B6 takes over the route from WN I could care less who else flies it, if WN wasn't on that route B6 would likely be in IND by now.

WN has been at IND for over 29 years, and Southwest carried 2.9 million passengers to, from, or through IND between March 2017 and February 2018. WN also has an established frequent flyer base in the IND market, and there are many travelers in the IND market who prefer to fly on WN over other airlines. MDW, STL, and MCI are the only airports in the Midwest where WN carried more passengers than IND does.

WN and B6 both have nonstop service to BOS from ATL, AUS, BWI, Chicago (WN through MDW & B6 through ORD), Dallas (WN through DAL & B6 through DFW), DEN, HOU, and BNA. WN also has seasonal nonstop service to MSY, MCO, and TPA from BOS, but B6 serves MSY, MCO, and TPA nonstop from BOS on a year-round basis.

IND might possibly be able to support IND-BOS on WN if B6 enters the IND market since there are many WN frequent flyers in the Indianapolis market and since WN does operate nonstop routes out of BOS that compete against B6 nonstop service.

tphuang wrote:

Indy wrote:

indygs wrote:

I think they'd be far better off restarting IND-DCA and cutting IND-BOS. As you say, that could make it much easier for B6 to come in and put some competition back on the table to DCA. I've struggled to understand WN's schedules on some business markets. I like that they've tried LGA, BOS, and DCA but I think their schedule and lack of frequencies has come to hurt them vs. the legacies that are in each market.

Could they be keeping BOS in order to keep B6 out?

No, b6 will enter ind when it’s ready. Hopefully soon. There are several routes out of Boston with b6, wn and dl. B6 does well in all of them except for atl, but then again everyone is loosing money on that route.

Those routes you refer to have much higher PDEW though, so its hard to use that comparison

jplatts wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

indygs wrote:

Totally agree. I was saying the above with the hope B6 would start. But to Indy's point, WN could very well be playing the defensive here. Who knows, perhaps they're also seeing some YOY growth on the route.

As long as B6 takes over the route from WN I could care less who else flies it, if WN wasn't on that route B6 would likely be in IND by now.

WN has been at IND for over 29 years, and Southwest carried 2.9 million passengers to, from, or through IND between March 2017 and February 2018. WN also has an established frequent flyer base in the IND market, and there are many travelers in the IND market who prefer to fly on WN over other airlines. MDW, STL, and MCI are the only airports in the Midwest where WN carried more passengers than IND does.

WN and B6 both have nonstop service to BOS from ATL, AUS, BWI, Chicago (WN through MDW & B6 through ORD), Dallas (WN through DAL & B6 through DFW), DEN, HOU, and BNA. WN also has seasonal nonstop service to MSY, MCO, and TPA from BOS, but B6 serves MSY, MCO, and TPA nonstop from BOS on a year-round basis.

IND might possibly be able to support IND-BOS on WN if B6 enters the IND market since there are many WN frequent flyers in the Indianapolis market and since WN does operate nonstop routes out of BOS that compete against B6 nonstop service.

I think if B6 enters the market B6 will take a lot of those WN pax you are referring to.

Midwestindy wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Indy wrote:

Could they be keeping BOS in order to keep B6 out?

No, b6 will enter ind when it’s ready. Hopefully soon. There are several routes out of Boston with b6, wn and dl. B6 does well in all of them except for atl, but then again everyone is loosing money on that route.

Those routes you refer to have much higher PDEW though, so its hard to use that comparison

jplatts wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

As long as B6 takes over the route from WN I could care less who else flies it, if WN wasn't on that route B6 would likely be in IND by now.

WN has been at IND for over 29 years, and Southwest carried 2.9 million passengers to, from, or through IND between March 2017 and February 2018. WN also has an established frequent flyer base in the IND market, and there are many travelers in the IND market who prefer to fly on WN over other airlines. MDW, STL, and MCI are the only airports in the Midwest where WN carried more passengers than IND does.

WN and B6 both have nonstop service to BOS from ATL, AUS, BWI, Chicago (WN through MDW & B6 through ORD), Dallas (WN through DAL & B6 through DFW), DEN, HOU, and BNA. WN also has seasonal nonstop service to MSY, MCO, and TPA from BOS, but B6 serves MSY, MCO, and TPA nonstop from BOS on a year-round basis.

IND might possibly be able to support IND-BOS on WN if B6 enters the IND market since there are many WN frequent flyers in the Indianapolis market and since WN does operate nonstop routes out of BOS that compete against B6 nonstop service.

I think if B6 enters the market B6 will take a lot of those WN pax you are referring to.

Bos aus and ind seem to be about the same size now. And aus was smaller before dl entered. B6 can always enter with e90 which limits the capacity addition. Realistic speaking, b6 does very well in these short range markets out of bos. I don’t think wn presence will scare it out. The bigger issue is they are very conservative and add new cities slowly. And there are a couple of high yielding Caribbean cities in their near plans it seems like.

jplatts wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

indygs wrote:

Totally agree. I was saying the above with the hope B6 would start. But to Indy's point, WN could very well be playing the defensive here. Who knows, perhaps they're also seeing some YOY growth on the route.

As long as B6 takes over the route from WN I could care less who else flies it, if WN wasn't on that route B6 would likely be in IND by now.

WN has been at IND for over 29 years, and Southwest carried 2.9 million passengers to, from, or through IND between March 2017 and February 2018. WN also has an established frequent flyer base in the IND market, and there are many travelers in the IND market who prefer to fly on WN over other airlines. MDW, STL, and MCI are the only airports in the Midwest where WN carried more passengers than IND does.

WN and B6 both have nonstop service to BOS from ATL, AUS, BWI, Chicago (WN through MDW & B6 through ORD), Dallas (WN through DAL & B6 through DFW), DEN, HOU, and BNA. WN also has seasonal nonstop service to MSY, MCO, and TPA from BOS, but B6 serves MSY, MCO, and TPA nonstop from BOS on a year-round basis.

IND might possibly be able to support IND-BOS on WN if B6 enters the IND market since there are many WN frequent flyers in the Indianapolis market and since WN does operate nonstop routes out of BOS that compete against B6 nonstop service.

I also think B6 could enter at some point. It'll be a blood bath for awhile but B6 are entering highly competitive markets. B6 could make IND-BOS work on a regional aircraft.