Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

travaz · Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:38 am

777PHX wrote:
43.9 million. Only a few thousand below the all time record set in 2015.

Not bad considering 2015 had the Super Bowl boosting its numbers.

Thanks .

Those are good numbers.

Lennundus · Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:26 am

777PHX wrote:
43.9 million. Only a few thousand below the all time record set in 2015.

Not bad considering 2015 had the Super Bowl boosting its numbers.

I am surprised they were up YOY, I hope AA is done shrinking PHX.

chrisair · Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:32 am

airzona11 wrote:
How have the delays been with the north runway out of commission?

Delay of 1:10 tonight out of MCO. Worst part was they boarded us and wouldn’t let us off in MCO.

Great crew though. But this is getting ridiculous, and it seems AA is worse than Aanyone else. Any ETA on the project being done?

JustWingIt · Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:45 pm

chrisair wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
How have the delays been with the north runway out of commission?

Delay of 1:10 tonight out of MCO. Worst part was they boarded us and wouldn’t let us off in MCO.

Great crew though. But this is getting ridiculous, and it seems AA is worse than Aanyone else. Any ETA on the project being done?

February 21 is when this project is slated to finish. https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/new ... s-for.html

Osubuckeyes · Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:09 pm

DL bringing back PHX-CVG in November. Also, have a couple work trips to TX in May/June AA seems to have done some down-gauging. IAH specifcally is 4x on CR9s versus 3-4x on 319s, which is a pretty sizable cut... Anyone else seeing beyond normal down gauges for the Summer schedule?

SumChristianus · Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:18 pm

CVG-PHX now has DL back, daily B73H, I think it makes AA less likely to enter.

Sorry, just saw you had posted it....

alasizon · Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:32 am

Osubuckeyes wrote:
DL bringing back PHX-CVG in November. Also, have a couple work trips to TX in May/June AA seems to have done some down-gauging. IAH specifcally is 4x on CR9s versus 3-4x on 319s, which is a pretty sizable cut... Anyone else seeing beyond normal down gauges for the Summer schedule?

IAH has been running at 4-5x CR9 for a little while now. The 319 comes and goes. Mind you, the summer schedule isn't really in effect yet since only the schedule through May has been truly loaded in, everything else is a placeholder.

skyharborshome · Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:25 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:
DL bringing back PHX-CVG in November. Also, have a couple work trips to TX in May/June AA seems to have done some down-gauging. IAH specifcally is 4x on CR9s versus 3-4x on 319s, which is a pretty sizable cut... Anyone else seeing beyond normal down gauges for the Summer schedule?

Daily? Seasonal? Wish they were starting it now. I take lots of trips to Ohio and Kentucky and connecting to SDF, CMH or much worse DAY is not pleasant.

jtwall · Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:53 pm

skyharborshome wrote:
Osubuckeyes wrote:
DL bringing back PHX-CVG in November. Also, have a couple work trips to TX in May/June AA seems to have done some down-gauging. IAH specifcally is 4x on CR9s versus 3-4x on 319s, which is a pretty sizable cut... Anyone else seeing beyond normal down gauges for the Summer schedule?

Daily? Seasonal? Wish they were starting it now. I take lots of trips to Ohio and Kentucky and connecting to SDF, CMH or much worse DAY is not pleasant.

It will be daily. I don't think they've clarified yet if it's seasonal (with a presumed suspension in summer) or year round. It would not surprise me if it's partly based on performance over the winter.

777PHX · Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:20 pm

I was putting gas in my car this morning near the 202 and noticed the unmistakable profile of a large cargo airplane on approach to KIWA. Looks like the AN124 is here for a visit. I don't see a flight plan for a departure on Flightaware so he's probably going to overnight as he usually does. Probably taking a load of helicopters back to wherever. He came in from LAS.

MO11 · Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:27 am

777PHX wrote:
I was putting gas in my car this morning near the 202 and noticed the unmistakable profile of a large cargo airplane on approach to KIWA. Looks like the AN124 is here for a visit. I don't see a flight plan for a departure on Flightaware so he's probably going to overnight as he usually does. Probably taking a load of helicopters back to wherever. He came in from LAS.

Wherever is Riyadh; another flight has been approved for next week.

travaz · Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:26 am

Saudi Arabia They have purchased a large amount of Sikorski Blackhawks. But also some Boeing Helicopters

https://www.google.com/maps/@26.8647622 ... .64z?hl=en

September11 · Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:01 am

It was my pleasure to fly in and out of PHX recently, after nearly a decade of absence. During my downtime there, I decided to take a full tour of the airport's concourses, especially Southwest's new concourse. Indeed, like many airports are, PHX is an above average airport for anyone to experience, despite the demise of Phoenix's beloved America West. During my tour, I did find that a bridge walk between 2 of their 6 concourses can be rather boring and time consuming for certain "non-aviation" people. Additional visual entertainment along the spacious bridge walkway does sound like a good idea to me.

cm642 · Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:41 am

"BA in the market for more A380s; Dubai and Phoenix possible new routes with type"
http://www.anna.aero/2018/01/24/ba-market-a380s-dubai-phoenix-possible-new-routes-type/

Very interesting, what are your thoughts?

travaz · Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:24 pm

cm642 wrote:
"BA in the market for more A380s; Dubai and Phoenix possible new routes with type"
http://www.anna.aero/2018/01/24/ba-market-a380s-dubai-phoenix-possible-new-routes-type/

Very interesting, what are your thoughts?

That is an interesting article. I was really surprised to see that PHX is the 4th busiest long haul destination for BA (Non 380 Routes). Who wouldn't want to see a daily A-380 coming into Phoenix. Average seats a week for BA into PHX is 3370 a week using 747-400's according to the article. 7 days a week year round and a double 747-400 twice a week from March 27 to May 6 when it changes to a double 3 days a week until October. BA has 3 configurations on the 747, 259 seats,275 seats, and 293 seats. My math shows a few less seats than the 3370. If they brought in a daily A-380 that would equal 3283 seats a week (All BA 380's have 469 seats) so would actually be a capacity reduction of a few seats a week. I think it is doable at the current loads. If they want to increase seats or frequencies they could tag on a 777 with 275 seats twice a week. I hope it happens. Does anyone know if any of the gates can handle a 380?

atcsundevil · Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:06 pm

travaz wrote:
Does anyone know if any of the gates can handle a 380?

PHX is not equipped to handle scheduled A380 service. The only contingency is effectively on a diversion basis. No taxiways are capable of handling an A380 without impacting parallel taxiways, and I don't believe any gates are equipped for it. It can't taxi on Charlie or Romeo, and if it's on Bravo, it effectively shuts down Charlie, and could prevent aircraft from landing on 8/26 due to lack of egress. I recall seeing an A380 study done about six years ago, and long story short, it would be a mess...it would require a lot of money and result in a lot of disruption.

travaz · Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:08 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
travaz wrote:
Does anyone know if any of the gates can handle a 380?

PHX is not equipped to handle scheduled A380 service. The only contingency is effectively on a diversion basis. No taxiways are capable of handling an A380 without impacting parallel taxiways, and I don't believe any gates are equipped for it. It can't taxi on Charlie or Romeo, and if it's on Bravo, it effectively shuts down Charlie, and could prevent aircraft from landing on 8/26 due to lack of egress. I recall seeing an A380 study done about six years ago, and long story short, it would be a mess...it would require a lot of money and result in a lot of disruption.

I thought I had read somewhere in the past the PHX was limited on the use of the A380 but didn't know if they had upgraded. I think that may put the speculation to rest. As much as PHX likes BA service I doubt they would spend the money and have the disruption to accommodate 1 A 380.

Thanks for Info atcsundevil

atcsundevil · Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:54 pm

travaz wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
travaz wrote:
Does anyone know if any of the gates can handle a 380?

PHX is not equipped to handle scheduled A380 service. The only contingency is effectively on a diversion basis. No taxiways are capable of handling an A380 without impacting parallel taxiways, and I don't believe any gates are equipped for it. It can't taxi on Charlie or Romeo, and if it's on Bravo, it effectively shuts down Charlie, and could prevent aircraft from landing on 8/26 due to lack of egress. I recall seeing an A380 study done about six years ago, and long story short, it would be a mess...it would require a lot of money and result in a lot of disruption.

I thought I had read somewhere in the past the PHX was limited on the use of the A380 but didn't know if they had upgraded. I think that may put the speculation to rest. As much as PHX likes BA service I doubt they would spend the money and have the disruption to accommodate 1 A 380.

Thanks for Info atcsundevil

Right...it's a great idea, but the airport just isn't equipped. Without a legitimate business case, there's no way to justify likely hundreds of millions of dollars worth of work to the terminal and airfield. Maybe if multiple airlines were clamoring to bring their A380s, but clearly that's not the case! PHX simply has larger priorities — competing T3 and S1, demolishing T2, building out the SkyTrain, and eventually constructing a new north/south taxiway (Taxiway Uniform). A fourth runway would be nice, but Honeywell isn't about to give up their lease, and things generally run fine with three. Besides, after more than $2 billion spent in capital improvement projects between 2008-2022, they probably don't even have the money to put into things like gate reconfigurations and taxiway realignments to accommodate a scheduled A380.

cm642 · Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:28 am

I'm just wondering isn't the airport eventually going to have to address it's widebody issue, what I mean by that in terms of an airfield perspective most can't taxi past one another without colliding, take for instance Americans A330's, one either has to hold or jump back onto the runway to avoid a collision like in this youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhVQv9nttdU). Yes the airport can accommodate wide-bodies, but seems to have an issue accommodating multiples all at once because the airfield wasn't designed with having multiples in mind.

atcsundevil · Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:40 am

cm642 wrote:
I'm just wondering isn't the airport eventually going to have to address it's widebody issue, what I mean by that in terms of an airfield perspective most can't taxi past one another without colliding, take for instance Americans A330's, one either has to hold or jump back onto the runway to avoid a collision like in this youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhVQv9nttdU). Yes the airport can accommodate wide-bodies, but seems to have an issue accommodating multiples all at once because the airfield wasn't designed with having multiples in mind.

Just about all of the taxiways are Group V capable, so two 744s could pass side-by-side on most of Bravo and Charlie. The issue with Charlie is when aircraft are parked on the end gates on Concourses A and B. Sierra, Tango, and Romeo are all Group V capable, albeit not simultaneous, but that's simply never an issue. Simultaneous widebody ops are indeed an issue in some places on the field, but it would only hamper operations if PHX had an abundance of widebody operations. If PHX suddenly became IAD, I would be concerned. Since that's hardly an issue (no more than about 8-10 total daily widebody movements, excluding cargo), I don't see it being something that will need addressing at any point in the foreseeable future. Even a decade from now, I would be surprised if total movements even topped 20 per day, because at this point ten years ago, there were still only 6-8 daily movements.

Osubuckeyes · Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:42 pm

Flew in from LAX yesterday, took 2.5 hours with the winds and hold times due to runway construction. Had a departure hold in LAX for about 30 minutes, then over Gila Bend for another 30. Very dramatic visuals of the valley flying in though, and certainly some dramatic turbulence.

atcsundevil · Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:45 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:
Flew in from LAX yesterday, took 2.5 hours with the winds and hold times due to runway construction. Had a departure hold in LAX for about 30 minutes, then over Gila Bend for another 30. Very dramatic visuals of the valley flying in though, and certainly some dramatic turbulence.

There was a ground stop for a while on Sunday. I work in a center on the east coast, and even we were getting messages about it. 99% of the time, they're about LGA/EWR/JFK/TEB, so when I saw a ground stop for PHX, I gave my screen a very confused look!

You would have had an EDCT (Expect Departure Clearance Time), or "flow time". Unfortunately those Traffic Management EDCTs don't always work out, or the origin gives you a crappy release, so you end up being metered or held enroute trying to fit you into the flow. It's a very cool metering tool, but especially if weather kicks in and it changes the arrival rate, it has a tendency to make their plan to go mush.

chrisair · Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:33 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:
Flew in from LAX yesterday, took 2.5 hours with the winds and hold times due to runway construction. Had a departure hold in LAX for about 30 minutes, then over Gila Bend for another 30. Very dramatic visuals of the valley flying in though, and certainly some dramatic turbulence.

Had a two hour delay coming out of MSY the other night, and a 60 minute delay leaving PHX on Friday. Part of that MSY delay was due to a plane swap, then the new plane breaking, and waiting for yet another plane. ATC delay was an hour, the plane breaking was another hour. This marks six weeks in a row with at least one, hour long ATC delay.

They really should lock those contractors and PHX people who botched the first repair inside a plane and make them sit somewhere for an hour before flying across the country.

JustWingIt · Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:37 am

Runway 8/26 was supposed to reopen again today, idk if it ever did.

INFINITI329 · Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:27 pm

Why did AA choose the A330 for CLT-PHX-HNL instead of a 763 via MIA or DFW? Especially with a 757 base already established in PHX

alasizon · Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:06 pm

JustWingIt wrote:
Runway 8/26 was supposed to reopen again today, idk if it ever did.

It did at 0700.

INFINITI329 wrote:
Why did AA choose the A330 for CLT-PHX-HNL instead of a 763 via MIA or DFW? Especially with a 757 base already established in PHX

Although the 757 & 767 may share a type rating, 757 pilots in PHX never fly the 767 and would have to be current on it. Likewise, the A330 lift is needed to/from CLT for connections.

chrisair · Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:33 pm

alasizon wrote:
It did at 0700.

I did a happy dance after I drove by last night and saw a plane landing on the north side.

777PHX · Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:38 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
Why did AA choose the A330 for CLT-PHX-HNL instead of a 763 via MIA or DFW? Especially with a 757 base already established in PHX

There's a 90 sum odd seat difference between the A333 and 763, so I'd say clearly the need was for capacity. The A330 has also operated from PHX before.

People give fleet commonality way too much significance around here.

Lennundus · Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:58 am

Looks like Air Canada Rouge flights to Montreal are doing well. Seasonal service next year will start in September and go through May.

http://www.azfamily.com/story/37571495/ ... eal-quebec

airzona11 · Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:49 am

Very cool to see the AA A330. The morning DL A330 looks great heading out from downtown.

I hope BA keeps the 744s flying and moves to double daily, trending the right way at least. Heard from some friends in the logistics business, the flight has somewhat decent cargo loads.

JustWingIt · Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:47 am

alasizon wrote:
JustWingIt wrote:
Runway 8/26 was supposed to reopen again today, idk if it ever did.

It did at 0700.

Yeah, I saw a parallel landing a few hours ago, so it is obviously in operation again. Hopefully the delays should wind down.

Also a bunch of new shops and restaurants to be opened in T3 have been revealed. Some of the choices are definitely interesting.

https://www.abc15.com/entertainment/eve ... terminal-3

chrisair · Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:32 am

JustWingIt wrote:
Also a bunch of new shops and restaurants to be opened in T3 have been revealed. Some of the choices are definitely interesting.

Some unique airport restaurants in there for sure. Will be interesting to see how some of the stand up to their regular counterparts. Hopefully one of those will serve better coffee than Starbucks. My normal caffeination spots in T4 are quite good (Cartel is ridiculously expensive, though).

cm642 · Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:58 am

Here's a video showing renderings of more restaurants from the airports youtube page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AQ5hK8gfbQ

atcsundevil · Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:54 pm

Christopher's Crush? Wow. That's not the kind of place I would have figured would go in an airport, but good for him. And good for PHX for getting a local James Beard Award winning chef to open a restaurant at their airport.

777PHX · Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:19 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Christopher's Crush? Wow. That's not the kind of place I would have figured would go in an airport, but good for him. And good for PHX for getting a local James Beard Award winning chef to open a restaurant at their airport.

I'd be curious to see how much control over the day to day business he's actually going to have. If it's anything like the rest of the restaurants at Sky Harbor, it won't be much. It's essentially just a licensing agreement.

atcsundevil · Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:54 pm

777PHX wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Christopher's Crush? Wow. That's not the kind of place I would have figured would go in an airport, but good for him. And good for PHX for getting a local James Beard Award winning chef to open a restaurant at their airport.

I'd be curious to see how much control over the day to day business he's actually going to have. If it's anything like the rest of the restaurants at Sky Harbor, it won't be much. It's essentially just a licensing agreement.

I hope not. I would have a hard time believing that he would license his name away like that. If he did, he's potentially making a mistake. PHX would be well-served by making sure he had enough control to make the restaurant a success. Most places can run successfully under a licensing agreement, but I don't think that would work for a place like Christopher's.

wn676 · Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:43 pm

cm642 wrote:
I'm just wondering isn't the airport eventually going to have to address it's widebody issue, what I mean by that in terms of an airfield perspective most can't taxi past one another without colliding, take for instance Americans A330's, one either has to hold or jump back onto the runway to avoid a collision like in this youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhVQv9nttdU). Yes the airport can accommodate wide-bodies, but seems to have an issue accommodating multiples all at once because the airfield wasn't designed with having multiples in mind.

I was on the ground the day that video was shot. The issue was that RV was holding its 767 out on Bravo because B23 was occupied with a late turn. AA’s 330 landed and had an open gate, but since that portion of Charlie is restricted to ADG-IV, they decided to back taxi on 8/26. In a perfect world they would have held the 767 on the west portion of the airfield when it was known that their gate wouldn’t clear in time. It was more of an issue of irrops than poor airfield planning; the need to address it just isn’t there.

Also as a side note on the history of that area, up until around 2010, Charlie was ADG-V, but the city reduced it to ADG-IV to accommodate the gate restriping project by US.

Osubuckeyes · Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:38 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
777PHX wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Christopher's Crush? Wow. That's not the kind of place I would have figured would go in an airport, but good for him. And good for PHX for getting a local James Beard Award winning chef to open a restaurant at their airport.

I'd be curious to see how much control over the day to day business he's actually going to have. If it's anything like the rest of the restaurants at Sky Harbor, it won't be much. It's essentially just a licensing agreement.

I hope not. I would have a hard time believing that he would license his name away like that. If he did, he's potentially making a mistake. PHX would be well-served by making sure he had enough control to make the restaurant a success. Most places can run successfully under a licensing agreement, but I don't think that would work for a place like Christopher's.

It is possible that he will be doing it under and alternative name (Like "Crush Cafe" or something), but the name is TBD or yet to be released.

Definitely some interesting choices on that list though. Not sure a place like Postino fits at an airport either, Shake shack is kind of random, but everything else seems like a good fit.

777PHX · Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:52 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
777PHX wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Christopher's Crush? Wow. That's not the kind of place I would have figured would go in an airport, but good for him. And good for PHX for getting a local James Beard Award winning chef to open a restaurant at their airport.

I'd be curious to see how much control over the day to day business he's actually going to have. If it's anything like the rest of the restaurants at Sky Harbor, it won't be much. It's essentially just a licensing agreement.

I hope not. I would have a hard time believing that he would license his name away like that. If he did, he's potentially making a mistake. PHX would be well-served by making sure he had enough control to make the restaurant a success. Most places can run successfully under a licensing agreement, but I don't think that would work for a place like Christopher's.

I work for a local company that has a couple locations in T4. They have our brand names, but they’re completely hands off from us. All we do is collect the licensing check every month. We have no other input or control over them.

chrisair · Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:59 pm

777PHX wrote:
I work for a local company that has a couple locations in T4. They have our brand names, but they’re completely hands off from us. All we do is collect the licensing check every month. We have no other input or control over them.

I imagine that's all part of the licensing agreement with SSP or Hudson or whomever. From what I've seen, the LGO at the airport gets a delivery of baked goods and other stuff from the restaurant and bakery. They offer different pizzas at the airport; but use the same dough. They do a little food prep there, but I remember someone telling me once they can't do a lot because they can't use "real" knives. No idea if that's true.

If you work for who I think you do, keep up the good work at the Brick and Mortar location and the airport location. I live a few blocks down the road and frequently go on the weekends, but please fix the damn parking lot! :lol:

Maverick623 · Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:05 pm

Just east of the new T3S, north of the fire station there's a structure being built. Anyone know what that might be? From my T4 view it looks almost stand-alone.

777PHX · Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:25 am

chrisair wrote:
777PHX wrote:
I work for a local company that has a couple locations in T4. They have our brand names, but they’re completely hands off from us. All we do is collect the licensing check every month. We have no other input or control over them.

I imagine that's all part of the licensing agreement with SSP or Hudson or whomever. From what I've seen, the LGO at the airport gets a delivery of baked goods and other stuff from the restaurant and bakery. They offer different pizzas at the airport; but use the same dough. They do a little food prep there, but I remember someone telling me once they can't do a lot because they can't use "real" knives. No idea if that's true.

If you work for who I think you do, keep up the good work at the Brick and Mortar location and the airport location. I live a few blocks down the road and frequently go on the weekends, but please fix the damn parking lot!

Matt's Big Breakfast?

I don't work for them. I work for a local conceptual group, we have several different brands of multiple stores each and then several one off boutique restaurants as well. Our CEO just got a James Beard of his own, actually.

That should probably narrow it down.

Mboyle1988 · Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:41 am

SumChristianus wrote:
CVG-PHX now has DL back, daily B73H, I think it makes AA less likely to enter.

Sorry, just saw you had posted it....

Was AA considering this? What about WN? Is there any chance their March only flight comes back more regularly?

AntonioMartin · Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:04 am

I wonder when we will get service to Puerto Penasco here at Phoenix (or Mesa for that matter)

Perhaps MQ can do it from PHX? After all, PP is Arizona's beach!

Or the Mexican charter airline Global Air working with some AZ based travel agent??

JustWingIt · Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:50 pm

I've been hearing a rumor about FI thinking about a new destination to start in 2019-2020, and PHX is pretty high on that list. Idk though. I hope this happens, we need more int'l flights (and facilities, but yeah)

travaz · Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:26 pm

JustWingIt wrote:
I've been hearing a rumor about FI thinking about a new destination to start in 2019-2020, and PHX is pretty high on that list. Idk though. I hope this happens, we need more int'l flights (and facilities, but yeah)

Iceland would be nice about mid July!

MO11 · Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:01 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
I wonder when we will get service to Puerto Penasco here at Phoenix (or Mesa for that matter)

Perhaps MQ can do it from PHX? After all, PP is Arizona's beach!

It's been done. It's really tough to beat a four hour car ride.

JustWingIt · Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:50 am

travaz wrote:
JustWingIt wrote:
I've been hearing a rumor about FI thinking about a new destination to start in 2019-2020, and PHX is pretty high on that list. Idk though. I hope this happens, we need more int'l flights (and facilities, but yeah)

Iceland would be nice about mid July!

Yeah, and PHX would be nice for them during the winter. Its a good tradeoff, so I hope its not limited to seasonal flights as is DE right now.

JustWingIt · Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:11 pm

Although the persuasion over twitter is not being terribly successful right now. So I hope it will happen, but FI to PHX is still far from confirmed.

AntonioMartin · Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:39 pm

MO11 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
I wonder when we will get service to Puerto Penasco here at Phoenix (or Mesa for that matter)

Perhaps MQ can do it from PHX? After all, PP is Arizona's beach!

It's been done. It's really tough to beat a four hour car ride.

Hmmnnn...do you remember who used to fly it???

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