Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

uconn99 · Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:40 am

alasizon wrote:
Mboyle1988 wrote:
Would be nice to have MSN and especially GRR year round. I am personally waiting for JAX, BDL, ALB, and either ORF or RIC. Not sure if any will happen but I’m hopeful.

BDL could probably support a flight but its long and thing and overflies a lot of AA hubs & WN focus cities along the way. I'm not sure its worth the dedicated bird year round.

ORF & RIC would be my bets for long and thin adds, with ORF on AA and RIC on WN.

BDL-PHX is not really that thin of a route, I believe O&D can reach over 200, not sure what the current numbers are however.

PHX may be the largest unserved market from BDL.

travaz · Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:39 am

Not to be argumentative but with the exception of PHL it doesn't over fly any AA hubs

INFINITI329 · Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:09 am

alasizon wrote:
Mboyle1988 wrote:
Would be nice to have MSN and especially GRR year round. I am personally waiting for JAX, BDL, ALB, and either ORF or RIC. Not sure if any will happen but I’m hopeful.

BDL could probably support a flight but its long and thing and overflies a lot of AA hubs & WN focus cities along the way. I'm not sure its worth the dedicated bird year round.

ORF & RIC would be my bets for long and thin adds, with ORF on AA and RIC on WN.

I don't think either ORF or RIC would work on WN to PHX

cathay747 · Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:09 pm

travaz wrote:
Not to be argumentative but with the exception of PHL it doesn't over fly any AA hubs

I presume you're referring to BDL...I don't believe he meant it literally...and you wouldn't directly overfly PHL either...I believe he meant it would bypass (for lack of a better term) two hubs (ORD & DFW) on the way, and I suppose you could include PHL too.

alasizon · Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:13 am

cathay747 wrote:
travaz wrote:
Not to be argumentative but with the exception of PHL it doesn't over fly any AA hubs

I presume you're referring to BDL...I don't believe he meant it literally...and you wouldn't directly overfly PHL either...I believe he meant it would bypass (for lack of a better term) two hubs (ORD & DFW) on the way, and I suppose you could include PHL too.

Correct, I wasn't being literal. You technically bypass PHL, DFW & ORD (although the main ones when it comes to PHX overlap are DFW & ORD)

travaz · Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:17 am

alasizon wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
travaz wrote:
Not to be argumentative but with the exception of PHL it doesn't over fly any AA hubs

I presume you're referring to BDL...I don't believe he meant it literally...and you wouldn't directly overfly PHL either...I believe he meant it would bypass (for lack of a better term) two hubs (ORD & DFW) on the way, and I suppose you could include PHL too.

Correct, I wasn't being literal. You technically bypass PHL, DFW & ORD (although the main ones when it comes to PHX overlap are DFW & ORD)

Sorry i get what you meant. I know when i make that trip I prefer PHX-DFW-BDL over ORD or PHL.

Mboyle1988 · Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:58 am

I mean BOS bypasses the same cities? BDL is a sizable market—the largest metro area without service to PHX. JAX and ORF are the next two.

cathay747 · Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:01 pm

Mboyle1988 wrote:
I mean BOS bypasses the same cities? BDL is a sizable market—the largest metro area without service to PHX. JAX and ORF are the next two.

They are? Never would have occurred to me. Based on metro-area population?

uconn99 · Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:21 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Mboyle1988 wrote:
I mean BOS bypasses the same cities? BDL is a sizable market—the largest metro area without service to PHX. JAX and ORF are the next two.

They are? Never would have occurred to me. Based on metro-area population?

Both Jacksonville and Norfolk technically have larger metro populations than Hartford, however BDL's catchment area is much larger than JAX and ORF. In 2017 BDL had almost double the amount of enplanments than ORF and 400K more than JAX.

Both Springfield, MA (700,000 metro) and New Haven (900,000) are not part of the Hartford metro area population (1,300,000).

https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_c ... ements.pdf

alasizon · Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:42 pm

Mboyle1988 wrote:
I mean BOS bypasses the same cities? BDL is a sizable market—the largest metro area without service to PHX. JAX and ORF are the next two.

The BOS metro is also far larger, hence why it can sustain much more service.

Mboyle1988 · Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:51 am

Boston is 4.3 million people. Hartford/Springfield combined are 2 million. There are 5 daily flights to Boston. I think Hartford could support 1 or 2. Hello WN.

uconn99 · Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:25 am

Mboyle1988 wrote:
Boston is 4.3 million people. Hartford/Springfield combined are 2 million. There are 5 daily flights to Boston. I think Hartford could support 1 or 2. Hello WN.

The BDL catchment area serves over 3 million people. BOS is in an entirely different league when it comes to air travel, however BDL has very little leak to BOS domestically and is a market on it's own with very little BOS influence when it comes to air travel.

cathay747 · Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:59 am

New service coming to Mesa:

California Pacific Airlines in the last 2 weeks opened reservation for additional route from Carlsbad. From 15NOV18, the airline’s Embraer ERJ145 aircraft will serve Carlsbad – Phoenix Mesa market, 5 times a week.

4A105 CLD1430 – 1635AZA ERJ x67
4A106 AZA1705 – 1715CLD ERJ x67

source: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... nov-2018-/

Wonder if this new airline will live long; and how much of a market can there be for this?

910A · Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:50 pm

cathay747 wrote:
New service coming to Mesa:

California Pacific Airlines in the last 2 weeks opened reservation for additional route from Carlsbad. From 15NOV18, the airline’s Embraer ERJ145 aircraft will serve Carlsbad – Phoenix Mesa market, 5 times a week.

4A105 CLD1430 – 1635AZA ERJ x67
4A106 AZA1705 – 1715CLD ERJ x67

source: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... nov-2018-/

Wonder if this new airline will live long; and how much of a market can there be for this?

Little late to the party Cathay :lol:

This was announced on this site back on post #680, two weeks ago.. Something is different, it was announced as daily expect Sunday.

cathay747 · Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:20 pm

910A wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
New service coming to Mesa:

California Pacific Airlines in the last 2 weeks opened reservation for additional route from Carlsbad. From 15NOV18, the airline’s Embraer ERJ145 aircraft will serve Carlsbad – Phoenix Mesa market, 5 times a week.

4A105 CLD1430 – 1635AZA ERJ x67
4A106 AZA1705 – 1715CLD ERJ x67

source: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... nov-2018-/

Wonder if this new airline will live long; and how much of a market can there be for this?

Little late to the party Cathay This was announced on this site back on post #680, two weeks ago.. Something is different, it was announced as daily expect Sunday.

Oh...sorry then...must have missed it.

JustWingIt · Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:21 am

cathay747 wrote:
910A wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
New service coming to Mesa:

California Pacific Airlines in the last 2 weeks opened reservation for additional route from Carlsbad. From 15NOV18, the airline’s Embraer ERJ145 aircraft will serve Carlsbad – Phoenix Mesa market, 5 times a week.

4A105 CLD1430 – 1635AZA ERJ x67
4A106 AZA1705 – 1715CLD ERJ x67

source: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... nov-2018-/

Wonder if this new airline will live long; and how much of a market can there be for this?

Little late to the party Cathay This was announced on this site back on post #680, two weeks ago.. Something is different, it was announced as daily expect Sunday.

Oh...sorry then...must have missed it.

That's understandable. I just think it's really interesting and kinda strange that IWA went from simply G4 and some WS to being an international airport with 5 airlines, and 3 being Canadian airlines. I don't know how long these flights will last.

777PHX · Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:07 pm

There's definitely a strong Canadian demand for IWA for the metric shit ton of Canadians that have second homes in the far East valley.

PlanesNTrains · Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:42 pm

I live in Chandler by the 202 and Alma School Road and it surprises me how fast I can get to Sky Harbor vs IWA much of the time. Right now I’m 17 min from PHX and 23 min from IWA. You’d almost have to be in Gilbert for IWA to be attractive, which is disappointing because I’d love to be able to fly out of IWA to SEA, LAX, SNA, or SFO (for example).

910A · Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:58 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I live in Chandler by the 202 and Alma School Road and it surprises me how fast I can get to Sky Harbor vs IWA much of the time. Right now I’m 17 min from PHX and 23 min from IWA. You’d almost have to be in Gilbert for IWA to be attractive, which is disappointing because I’d love to be able to fly out of IWA to SEA, LAX, SNA, or SFO (for example).

Okay what would stop you if IWA had flights to the airports you named? I know people that come down from Surprise to fly non-stop to Duluth or Grand Island. Meanwhile I thought by now OO or someone would have started a couple of flights a day to LAX or SFO to support United.

BA744PHX · Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:36 am

So with T3S opening later this year (i assume) will United open a lounge or no longer have a PHX location?

joeblow10 · Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:10 am

910A wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
I live in Chandler by the 202 and Alma School Road and it surprises me how fast I can get to Sky Harbor vs IWA much of the time. Right now I’m 17 min from PHX and 23 min from IWA. You’d almost have to be in Gilbert for IWA to be attractive, which is disappointing because I’d love to be able to fly out of IWA to SEA, LAX, SNA, or SFO (for example).

Okay what would stop you if IWA had flights to the airports you named? I know people that come down from Surprise to fly non-stop to Duluth or Grand Island. Meanwhile I thought by now OO or someone would have started a couple of flights a day to LAX or SFO to support United.

No reason for OO to do anything of the sort, I’m sure cannibalization on those would be far greater than demand from the IWA cachement. Like you said, people go to IWA because of nonstops to cities like GRI or DLH, not LAX or SFO... most of those types of folks use PHX because those are business or connecting heavy, especially on UA and not AA out of PHX. (I.e. I would assume very little leisure PHX-LAX/SFO O+D on United)

atcsundevil · Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:58 am

BA744PHX wrote:
So with T3S opening later this year (i assume) will United open a lounge or no longer have a PHX location?

Delta will open a Delta Sky Club in T3S when it opens soon (will be renamed Concourse F). United will open a new United Club in T3N (will be renamed Concourse E) when it opens in two years.

BA744PHX · Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:36 am

atcsundevil wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
So with T3S opening later this year (i assume) will United open a lounge or no longer have a PHX location?

Delta will open a Delta Sky Club in T3S when it opens soon (will be renamed Concourse F). United will open a new United Club in T3N (will be renamed Concourse E) when it opens in two years.

Thanks @atcsundevil, I didnt know T3N was going to be renovated, will it be similar to T3S?

Raventech · Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:23 am

BA744PHX wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
So with T3S opening later this year (i assume) will United open a lounge or no longer have a PHX location?

Delta will open a Delta Sky Club in T3S when it opens soon (will be renamed Concourse F). United will open a new United Club in T3N (will be renamed Concourse E) when it opens in two years.

Thanks @atcsundevil, I didnt know T3N was going to be renovated, will it be similar to T3S?

It won't be a tear down rebuild like T3S, its closer to take it back to the studs kind of remodel.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:13 pm

910A wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
I live in Chandler by the 202 and Alma School Road and it surprises me how fast I can get to Sky Harbor vs IWA much of the time. Right now I’m 17 min from PHX and 23 min from IWA. You’d almost have to be in Gilbert for IWA to be attractive, which is disappointing because I’d love to be able to fly out of IWA to SEA, LAX, SNA, or SFO (for example).

Okay what would stop you if IWA had flights to the airports you named? I know people that come down from Surprise to fly non-stop to Duluth or Grand Island. Meanwhile I thought by now OO or someone would have started a couple of flights a day to LAX or SFO to support United.

Nothing would stop me. The point was that those flights are unlikely as so little of the metro area is closer to IWA than PHX.

cathay747 · Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:46 pm

Raventech wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Delta will open a Delta Sky Club in T3S when it opens soon (will be renamed Concourse F). United will open a new United Club in T3N (will be renamed Concourse E) when it opens in two years.

Thanks @atcsundevil, I didnt know T3N was going to be renovated, will it be similar to T3S?

It won't be a tear down rebuild like T3S, its closer to take it back to the studs kind of remodel.

Oh my...that will be a lovely mess while it's in progress. Or are they moving everyone out of T3N during that remodel? I'm having trouble remembering who's going where and what's closing etc. I think I have it that B6 & HA are moving to T3S after it opens. Sorry guys.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:40 pm

Drove by PHX a short bit ago and the freeway signs said Terminal 4 was closed due to police activity. Any idea what was going on?

travaz · Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:43 pm

According to ABC 15 there is / was an unoccupied vehicle somewhere near T-4 .

PlanesNTrains · Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:54 pm

I can see lots of planes holding on taxiways and rental car shuttle buses full of people being led by security vehicles along the east perimeter of the airport. Weird.

1337Delta764 · Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:31 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I live in Chandler by the 202 and Alma School Road and it surprises me how fast I can get to Sky Harbor vs IWA much of the time. Right now I’m 17 min from PHX and 23 min from IWA. You’d almost have to be in Gilbert for IWA to be attractive, which is disappointing because I’d love to be able to fly out of IWA to SEA, LAX, SNA, or SFO (for example).

Note that that is without traffic due to the easy freeway access. Add in traffic and then you might see a different result. Both I-10 and the Loop 101 can get very congested during rush hour.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:43 pm

1337Delta764 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
I live in Chandler by the 202 and Alma School Road and it surprises me how fast I can get to Sky Harbor vs IWA much of the time. Right now I’m 17 min from PHX and 23 min from IWA. You’d almost have to be in Gilbert for IWA to be attractive, which is disappointing because I’d love to be able to fly out of IWA to SEA, LAX, SNA, or SFO (for example).

Note that that is without traffic due to the easy freeway access. Add in traffic and then you might see a different result. Both I-10 and the Loop 101 can get very congested during rush hour.

Of course. However the 202E gets that way in rush hour as well, and of course then you have to deal with surface streets.

Anyhow, I hope to fly out of Mesa one day - we’ll see if that ever happens.

UpNAWAy · Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:47 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Drove by PHX a short bit ago and the freeway signs said Terminal 4 was closed due to police activity. Any idea what was going on?

Terminal 4 closed for two hours. Someone apparently left a car at the curb. My wife has been trying to catch a flight cannot get to any of the terminals by roads and the skytrain is not running.

UpNAWAy · Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:09 pm

Apparently the car in question was in the parking structure. And a K9 alerted them to something. Now getting reports that the police have detonated something. Airport still closed people stuck in planes and FAA has restricted flow. What a mess.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:10 pm

Ya I’m sitting by the north perimeter and almost nothing is moving. Very few arrivals and departures, and planes with folks on it still parked all over the place. Rouge arrived a short bit ago and they are up by Delta. Thought I heard LiveATC tell an AA arrival that they don’t know how long it’ll be and company is only using two gates.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:16 pm

It’s unfortunate that arrivals are starting to tick up because they are all just getting put into a growing cue of waiting planes.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:23 pm

Ground just told an AA flight that the terminals are opening back up so hopefully it’ll start breaking loose.

travaz · Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:50 pm

According to the latest report someone left a rental car at the curb. When I worked out there people would be late for their fight and just abandon the rental on the curb figuring that someone would come get it. They should be able to identify the person through the rental car records and I hope they stick them with a substantial bill for being "all about me"

UpNAWAy · Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:29 pm

My wife is now through security. Problem is there are no crews and few staff.

PlanesNTrains · Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:41 pm

What a mess.

UpNAWAy · Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:05 pm

My wife has been on the plane with crew ready to push for over an hour. No ground crew available???

PlanesNTrains · Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:31 pm

Flightaware says experiencing departure delays averaging 30 minutes.

gmcc · Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:57 pm

I think I was on one of the very few flights to get out of Phoenix earlier AA1139. It was a mess. Dropped off the car at about 7:30 am. Rental cars shuttle for T4 dropped and told us to take the Sky train to T4. Since it was not working we walked to T4. Inside T4 I look like only half the bag drops were working. At about 8 we check our bag and were about the last people to get checked in before they closed the check in. Once you got through TSA the problem was getting crews to the plane. Overall AA did a good job in a very difficult situation.

MO11 · Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:30 am

travaz wrote:
According to the latest report someone left a rental car at the curb. When I worked out there people would be late for their fight and just abandon the rental on the curb figuring that someone would come get it. They should be able to identify the person through the rental car records and I hope they stick them with a substantial bill for being "all about me"

Reminds me of Robert Hays abandoning his cab at LAX on Airplane!.

Skytrain777PHX · Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:54 am

AA Widebody Flight Schedules (New changes as of 09/16/18):

11/16/18 (Friday only)
PHL-PHX 332 AA2060 8:20PM-11:40PM new

11/17/18 & 11/24/18 (Both Saturday only)
PHL-PHX 332 AA531 8:00AM-11:15AM (except on 11/17/18 but moved to 11/16/18 at night flight)
PHX-HNL 332 AA694 2:59PM- 6:46PM
HNL-PHX 332 AA693 10:05PM- 7:00AM (+1)

11/18/18 & 11/25/18 (Both Sunday only)
PHX-PHL 332 AA2168 8:51AM- 3:13PM

12/18/18 (Tuesday only)
PHL-PHX 333 AA1667 9:00PM-12:26AM (+1)

12/19/18 till 4/3/19 (Daily – Seasonal)
PHX-HNL 333 AA692 12:05PM- 4:00PM
HNL-PHX 333 AA693 10:40PM- 7:41AM (+1)

12/19/18 till 1/5/19 (Daily - Seasonal) (will be staying until 4/4/19 or not?)
CLT-PHX 333 AA1678 7:30AM-10:24AM new
PHX-CLT 333 AA1696 9:36AM- 3:25PM new

Don’t know 333 will return to either CLT, PHL, LAX or SFO with unscheduled flight from PHX on 4/4/19?

3/31/19 till 10/26/19 (Daily – Seasonal)
LHR-PHX 772 AA195 9:30AM-12:30PM
PHX-LHR 772 AA194 3:00PM- 9:20AM (+1)

cathay747 · Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:58 am

After this one flight, I wonder where that ship goes? ...

11/16/18 (Friday only)
PHL-PHX 332 AA2060 8:20PM-11:40PM new

wn676 · Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:15 pm

cathay747 wrote:
After this one flight, I wonder where that ship goes? ...

11/16/18 (Friday only)
PHL-PHX 332 AA2060 8:20PM-11:40PM new

It operates the HNL outbound on 11/17. AA531 operates on 11/24 only.

wn676 · Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:42 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
So with T3S opening later this year (i assume) will United open a lounge or no longer have a PHX location?

There will be a club in T3N when United relocates over there.

wn676 · Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:21 pm

Raventech wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Delta will open a Delta Sky Club in T3S when it opens soon (will be renamed Concourse F). United will open a new United Club in T3N (will be renamed Concourse E) when it opens in two years.

Thanks @atcsundevil, I didnt know T3N was going to be renovated, will it be similar to T3S?

It won't be a tear down rebuild like T3S, its closer to take it back to the studs kind of remodel.

There will be some structural changes to the facility, including a mid-concourse bump out on both sides of the building right around where Gates 18-20 are today. The roof is also being redesigned.

MO11 · Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:34 pm

travaz wrote:
According to the latest report someone left a rental car at the curb. When I worked out there people would be late for their fight and just abandon the rental on the curb figuring that someone would come get it. They should be able to identify the person through the rental car records and I hope they stick them with a substantial bill for being "all about me"

According to the Republic he gets a $56 parking ticket. Of course, the rental car is trashed, so I hope he paid for the LDW.

chrisair · Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:37 pm

MO11 wrote:
According to the Republic he gets a $56 parking ticket. Of course, the rental car is trashed, so I hope he paid for the LDW.

I wonder if the LDW (or the credit card version of it) covers damage caused by the bomb squad?

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