cm642 wrote:

I love seeing all the wide-body additions to PHX. Granted all of it is seasonal I hope AA's LHR route performs well enough to warrant daily year-round service and hopefully we can get daily wide-bodies on hub-hub routes like you see a lot of the times with DL and UA.

wn676 wrote:

cm642 wrote:

I love seeing all the wide-body additions to PHX. Granted all of it is seasonal I hope AA's LHR route performs well enough to warrant daily year-round service and hopefully we can get daily wide-bodies on hub-hub routes like you see a lot of the times with DL and UA.

They’re almost there, hopefully the daily 787 coming next year will be extended into W19.

Vctony wrote:

My belief is that all of the cities that AA has announced will overfly PHX: BFL, BUR, FLG, MRY, and YUM will lose 1 daily frequency to PHX in favor of the daily frequency to DFW. Not a huge cut but I don’t believe AA intends to grow capacity in any of those markets, it’s just reallocating it from PHX to DFW.

wn676 wrote:

cm642 wrote:

I love seeing all the wide-body additions to PHX. Granted all of it is seasonal I hope AA's LHR route performs well enough to warrant daily year-round service and hopefully we can get daily wide-bodies on hub-hub routes like you see a lot of the times with DL and UA.

They’re almost there, hopefully the daily 787 coming next year will be extended into W19.

cathay747 wrote:

Truly. I still wonder what this 787 flight is all about. Merely a capacity boost and no 763 avail?

alasizon wrote:

Its likely one part capacity (ORD is strictly 788 except for a domestic run or two to MIA on the 763) and one part utilization. The 321 that would have ran this route before can probably be better used elsewhere to support growth while the 788 was sitting around all day and you don't throw a widebody at a new domestic or domestic expansion market. You certainly can throw the 788 on Hub-Hub though.

INFINITI329 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Its likely one part capacity (ORD is strictly 788 except for a domestic run or two to MIA on the 763) and one part utilization. The 321 that would have ran this route before can probably be better used elsewhere to support growth while the 788 was sitting around all day and you don't throw a widebody at a new domestic or domestic expansion market. You certainly can throw the 788 on Hub-Hub though.

Does the 788 replace 2x ORD- PHX frequencies or just one?

alasizon wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Its likely one part capacity (ORD is strictly 788 except for a domestic run or two to MIA on the 763) and one part utilization. The 321 that would have ran this route before can probably be better used elsewhere to support growth while the 788 was sitting around all day and you don't throw a widebody at a new domestic or domestic expansion market. You certainly can throw the 788 on Hub-Hub though.

Does the 788 replace 2x ORD- PHX frequencies or just one?

Just one. The seat count isn't all that different (187 vs 226)

cathay747 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

Does the 788 replace 2x ORD- PHX frequencies or just one?

Just one. The seat count isn't all that different (187 vs 226)

What's the source of the info about this 788 op for ORD/PHX/ORD...not in the GDS, not even Sabre.

alasizon wrote:

wn676 wrote:

cm642 wrote:

I love seeing all the wide-body additions to PHX. Granted all of it is seasonal I hope AA's LHR route performs well enough to warrant daily year-round service and hopefully we can get daily wide-bodies on hub-hub routes like you see a lot of the times with DL and UA.

They’re almost there, hopefully the daily 787 coming next year will be extended into W19.

FWIW, the 788 was loaded as x6 through the summer so its not quite daily...

cathay747 wrote:

Truly. I still wonder what this 787 flight is all about. Merely a capacity boost and no 763 avail?

Its likely one part capacity (ORD is strictly 788 except for a domestic run or two to MIA on the 763) and one part utilization. The 321 that would have ran this route before can probably be better used elsewhere to support growth while the 788 was sitting around all day and you don't throw a widebody at a new domestic or domestic expansion market. You certainly can throw the 788 on Hub-Hub though.

chepos wrote:

Will the 788 go to the high A gates (A28 I believe), I know I saw the 333 there last season (along with at B25). Hopefully,the 333 has less reliability issues this coming season. It went tech or delayed a few times last year.

wn676 wrote:

chepos wrote:

Will the 788 go to the high A gates (A28 I believe), I know I saw the 333 there last season (along with at B25). Hopefully,the 333 has less reliability issues this coming season. It went tech or delayed a few times last year.

A30 and B13 are the AA widebody swing gates; I believe B13 is the primary. Those were reconfigured in the summer of 2017. The widebody operation this January could theoretically be handled on one gate though, assuming everything is operating as scheduled.

A28 was removed a couple of years ago as part of the ramp striping standardization project.

alasizon wrote:

The Winter widebody operation can be handled on a single gate assuming the 330s cooperate. The summer schedule has overlap between LHR and ORD so the question becomes do you house LHR out at B25 and then ORD at B13 or both out on B23/B25.

INFINITI329 wrote:

Jetblue will begin service to Fort Lauderdale on February 14, 2019 (Valentines Day). I always thought this would be a good route for Jetblue. I thought it would have come about after the arrival of the C-Series, but earlier is never bad. It would be the only nonstop red-eye to FLL and one of two to South Florida.

910A wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

Jetblue will begin service to Fort Lauderdale on February 14, 2019 (Valentines Day). I always thought this would be a good route for Jetblue. I thought it would have come about after the arrival of the C-Series, but earlier is never bad. It would be the only nonstop red-eye to FLL and one of two to South Florida.

Surprising to me, but I'm not big on red-eyes..I like to get to my cruise the day before and not at 6am when one can't get into their hotel or whatever.

INFINITI329 wrote:

Jetblue will begin service to Fort Lauderdale on February 14, 2019 (Valentines Day). I always thought this would be a good route for Jetblue. I thought it would have come about after the arrival of the C-Series, but earlier is never bad. It would be the only nonstop red-eye to FLL and one of two to South Florida.

skyharborshome wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

Jetblue will begin service to Fort Lauderdale on February 14, 2019 (Valentines Day). I always thought this would be a good route for Jetblue. I thought it would have come about after the arrival of the C-Series, but earlier is never bad. It would be the only nonstop red-eye to FLL and one of two to South Florida.

Any chance American adds a flight to counter or do they count MIA as close enough? The article says WN is the only other carrier to offer NS between the cities however that used to be seasonal. Is it now year round?

skyharborshome wrote:

I head out to FLL a lot and had a quick "sweet" followed by an "ugh". Red-eyes to FLL are not ideal at all. The cruise issue is there and most of the hotels are very strict on check-in times. No one wants to be on a flight all night and then "hang out" waiting for the hotel to let you in your room on little to no sleep. The return to Phoenix of 20:41 is also a bad time. Again, hotels and resorts want you out by noon and that airport is not the most entertaining to wait 6 or 7 hours. You could at argue the same for mid-morning cruise arrivals. Leaving for FLL at 8 am and coming back at 2 pm would be the money-maker IMO. I however do not get paid to create schedules.

777PHX wrote:

Adipocere wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Hello, I don't follow the Phoenix thread so go easy on me here

Today I noticed that BA has 2 flights LHR-PHX, both on 744's...which got me wondering - how has VS & D8 not started a LHR/LGW-PHX, even seasonally? I understand PHX is an AA hub, but I somewhat see PHX as similar to AUS in that AA has a stronghold on the market, yet D8 has been able to successfully enter the AUS market even though BA went into it first.

I'd be interested in understanding why PHX has such little service to EU outside BA.

It’s all about O&D and the strength of the local economy. AUS has built up a strong tech industry and is prominent in today’s cultural zeitgeist with SXSW, Formula 1 and MotoGP (playing especially well in Europe). PHX is still stuck with sprawl construction, retirees, cheap golf and is more or less a culturally backwoods place associated with anti-foreigner sentiments in the late 2000s. That’s changing over the past couple of years, but will take some more time...

So many ignorant statements in one post.

Sprawl construction? Yes, so what? PHX is a young metro area built with modern city planning techniques. I'm not sure how that's a knock on PHX.

Retirees? Again, so what? We do have hundreds of thousands of retirees here that pump dozens if not hundreds of millions of dollars into the local economy every year. Many of them actually come from another country(Canada) and do fly back and forth to get here. It's probably worth pointing out that retirees aren't the only people that live here, since you seem to be confused.

Cheap golf? What does "cheap golf" have to do with anything relevant here? Phoenix has some of the best golf courses in the world at some of the most posh resorts. TPC Scottsdale hosts one of the most popular and attended tournaments on the PGA calendar every year.

Culturally backwoods? This is so ignorant it hurts. Phoenix is a cultural melting pot full of a bunch of people from other places that didn't grow up here. It's anything but "culturally backwoods". Don't mistake one racist asshole who used to be sheriff here for representing the entire populace.

Formula 1 and MotoGP are laughable. Two weekends a year isn't buoying that LHR flight, buzzz, try again.

77H wrote:

777PHX wrote:

Adipocere wrote:

It’s all about O&D and the strength of the local economy. AUS has built up a strong tech industry and is prominent in today’s cultural zeitgeist with SXSW, Formula 1 and MotoGP (playing especially well in Europe). PHX is still stuck with sprawl construction, retirees, cheap golf and is more or less a culturally backwoods place associated with anti-foreigner sentiments in the late 2000s. That’s changing over the past couple of years, but will take some more time...

So many ignorant statements in one post.

Sprawl construction? Yes, so what? PHX is a young metro area built with modern city planning techniques. I'm not sure how that's a knock on PHX.

Retirees? Again, so what? We do have hundreds of thousands of retirees here that pump dozens if not hundreds of millions of dollars into the local economy every year. Many of them actually come from another country(Canada) and do fly back and forth to get here. It's probably worth pointing out that retirees aren't the only people that live here, since you seem to be confused.

Cheap golf? What does "cheap golf" have to do with anything relevant here? Phoenix has some of the best golf courses in the world at some of the most posh resorts. TPC Scottsdale hosts one of the most popular and attended tournaments on the PGA calendar every year.

Culturally backwoods? This is so ignorant it hurts. Phoenix is a cultural melting pot full of a bunch of people from other places that didn't grow up here. It's anything but "culturally backwoods". Don't mistake one racist asshole who used to be sheriff here for representing the entire populace.

Formula 1 and MotoGP are laughable. Two weekends a year isn't buoying that LHR flight, buzzz, try again.

I’ll agree with you on all but the sprawl. The PHX metro is one of the largest urban areas by size but one of the least dense. When I lived in Phoenix area the 202 was just being finished. Now there is a 303 and miles of single family homes where desert and farm land once was. Hell, the last time I looked at Google Earth, they’re building subdevelopments up against the White Tanks. All of this in the last decade. Tell me one urban area in the country that has consumed that much land in the last 10, even 20 years.

That said, it does look like the city has made good on its plan to revitalize downtown and fill in a lot if the vacant lots with new development. I hope the infill trend continues. IMO, the house and white picket fence version of the American Dream needs to be put out to pasture in favor of density. It’s modern or not, driving 40 minutes from north valley to downtown at highway speeds is neither efficient or good for the environment. I certainly don’t miss that smog layer floating above the city during the winter months.

77H

777PHX wrote:

77H wrote:

777PHX wrote:

So many ignorant statements in one post.

Sprawl construction? Yes, so what? PHX is a young metro area built with modern city planning techniques. I'm not sure how that's a knock on PHX.

Retirees? Again, so what? We do have hundreds of thousands of retirees here that pump dozens if not hundreds of millions of dollars into the local economy every year. Many of them actually come from another country(Canada) and do fly back and forth to get here. It's probably worth pointing out that retirees aren't the only people that live here, since you seem to be confused.

Cheap golf? What does "cheap golf" have to do with anything relevant here? Phoenix has some of the best golf courses in the world at some of the most posh resorts. TPC Scottsdale hosts one of the most popular and attended tournaments on the PGA calendar every year.

Culturally backwoods? This is so ignorant it hurts. Phoenix is a cultural melting pot full of a bunch of people from other places that didn't grow up here. It's anything but "culturally backwoods". Don't mistake one racist asshole who used to be sheriff here for representing the entire populace.

Formula 1 and MotoGP are laughable. Two weekends a year isn't buoying that LHR flight, buzzz, try again.

I’ll agree with you on all but the sprawl. The PHX metro is one of the largest urban areas by size but one of the least dense. When I lived in Phoenix area the 202 was just being finished. Now there is a 303 and miles of single family homes where desert and farm land once was. Hell, the last time I looked at Google Earth, they’re building subdevelopments up against the White Tanks. All of this in the last decade. Tell me one urban area in the country that has consumed that much land in the last 10, even 20 years.

That said, it does look like the city has made good on its plan to revitalize downtown and fill in a lot if the vacant lots with new development. I hope the infill trend continues. IMO, the house and white picket fence version of the American Dream needs to be put out to pasture in favor of density. It’s modern or not, driving 40 minutes from north valley to downtown at highway speeds is neither efficient or good for the environment. I certainly don’t miss that smog layer floating above the city during the winter months.

77H

I don't disagree with your points, but I don't think sprawl is necessarily a bad thing. I was just looking at this the other day, in terms of absolute numbers, Maricopa county was the fastest growing single county in the country in 2017 with a 74k year over year gain in population from 2016. That's nuts. Those people have to go somewhere. That's a decent sized community worth of people coming in every year.

chepos wrote:

At least LHR will have to operate out of N4 due to customs. Hopefully loads are good, would love to have PHX LHR year round on AA metal.

Mboyle1988 wrote:

If B6 flew mint to BOS I would fly them exclusively on that route. Otherwise, not interested in a red eye.

chepos wrote:

Mboyle1988 wrote:

If B6 flew mint to BOS I would fly them exclusively on that route. Otherwise, not interested in a red eye.

The B6 op in PHX is so minuscule, I doubt they will be sending Mint into town anytime soon. Both BOS and JFK are a single daily red eye.

travaz wrote:

chepos wrote:

Mboyle1988 wrote:

If B6 flew mint to BOS I would fly them exclusively on that route. Otherwise, not interested in a red eye.

The B6 op in PHX is so minuscule, I doubt they will be sending Mint into town anytime soon. Both BOS and JFK are a single daily red eye.

Exactly! There are so many options to get to JFK and BOS I don't see how they even hang on in PHX.

travaz wrote:

Interesting add for B6 non stop PHX FLL. It's a red eye turn. That only makes WN and B6 the only carrier with NS to FLL. The B6 flight leaves at 11:59 PM and the WN flight leaves at 11:50 AM. I wonder if B6 sees an opportunity here? They have only had the BOS and JFK flight forever. Why this add?

INFINITI329 wrote:

WN's current timing on their PHX-FLL flight means 0 connections out of FLL. B6 will be better positioned to siphon off some off both AA & DL Caribbean bound traffic from PHX. B6 & WN will only be competing for pax for whom time of arrival matters.

OKCDCA wrote:

I was wondering if any of you PHX folks could help me answer a question regarding if HP or US prior to the merger ever had any PHX-COS service? I keep seeing all the new adds for AA out of PHX and keep my fingers crossed COS will eventually pop up as we have no westward flights on AA out of COS. I figure we could at least support one CRJ but I don't have any data to support that thought other than if places like AMA and LBB are supporting a daily CR9 surely we could support something as well... With SGU closing next summer for runway repairs I'd be interested to see if OO would be willing to shift that CRJ our way and try a new market at risk?

bpat777 wrote:

Is the new South Concourse still scheduled to open early 2019?

chepos wrote:

Yes, HP flew COS (one of its first routes I believe). HP even had a Rez center up there, had a friend who started there. It was a station through the US merger until 08 I believe.

OKCDCA wrote:

chepos wrote:

Yes, HP flew COS (one of its first routes I believe). HP even had a Rez center up there, had a friend who started there. It was a station through the US merger until 08 I believe.

Thanks for the info. Any idea why the route was dropped? Did it not fit in with the new combined entity or under performance?

chepos wrote:

Back in 2008 (when I believe the route was dropped), a number of routes were discontinued. Among some were OKC and COS (and ICT I believe among others). We got OKC back, COS seems like a natural add in my opinion.

travaz wrote:

I know it is not hard numbers but I used to go to COS out of PHX several times a year (9 or 10 times) and the flight was always full.