QuarkFly wrote:

blockski wrote:

Here's an article discussing the proposal to build a pedestrian bridge between Crystal City and DCA, connecting the airport to the Mount Vernon trail as well as a soon-to-be re-built VRE station.

...

I think this is a fantastic concept, and one that MWAA should embrace fully. It's a huge opportunity to better link the airport to the surrounding neighborhood and business district, not to mention the improved transportation connections.

Yes this would be wonderful! !! There is a bike trail I occasionally walk for a DCA flight -- from Crystal City Dr at the Water Park under the train tracks and GW Parkway, then up Mt. Vernon trail where you can get to the terminal. But it is a good 20 minute or longer walk with luggage. A bridge from Crystal city would be ideal... and save a lot of people an Uber or a parking fee.

Yes, this would be a tremendous benefit to passengers. I do hope that the airport isn't too worried about undercutting either parking revenues or Uber/Lyft/Taxi fees... I think the walk is long enough so that it shouldn't be a huge issue, and the potential benefit of the connection to VRE (with both potentially greatly increased service as well as potential MARC run-through service) as well as to the adjacent commercial property owners is huge.

I'll bet the key will be in finding the right funding mix to make this happen.

Metro is reporting an 11% drop in ridership at the DCA stop from 930k in FY17 to 830k in FY18. I’m not sure what to make of that. It’s not just “safetrack” but a trend towards alternative transportation, according to the comments below.

https://www.arlnow.com/2018/05/24/arlin ... safetrack/

Quote
The station at Reagan National Airport recorded the largest drop of any Arlington location from 2017 to 2018, with a roughly 10.8 percent decrease. Ridership there also declined by 17.5 percent since 2016, the second largest drop in the county.

DSFTEBMNZ wrote:

Metro is reporting an 11% drop in ridership at the DCA stop from 930k in FY17 to 830k in FY18. I’m not sure what to make of that. It’s not just “safetrack” but a trend towards alternative transportation, according to the comments below.

https://www.arlnow.com/2018/05/24/arlin ... safetrack/

Quote
The station at Reagan National Airport recorded the largest drop of any Arlington location from 2017 to 2018, with a roughly 10.8 percent decrease. Ridership there also declined by 17.5 percent since 2016, the second largest drop in the county.

I think it's mostly SafeTrack.

There are no doubt lots of ridership pressures from companies like Uber and Lyft, but the story for ridership in FY 2017 and 2018 was SafeTrack. WMATA's fiscal year runs July to June, so that's really a measure from summer 2016 through today - which is exactly when the impact from SafeTrack was the highest.

WMATA hasn't yet seen ridership rebound yet, but they're going to need to provide better off-peak service to get ridership growing again.

RIC traffic continues to experience explosive growth. April pax numbers were up 15.1% over a year ago and RIC appears to be on target to break the 4 mil passenger mark this year.


http://www.nbc12.com/story/38317703/ric ... ng-in-june

Key facts:


Of note from April:

RIC passenger counts rose 15.1 percent compared to the same period a year ago.
For the first 10 months of FY2018, passenger traffic is up 5 percent.
Aircraft operations saw a 9.6 percent increase during the month, with military, air carrier, general aviation and air taxi operations all reporting year-over-year growth.

The airport also notes that June will bring several changes:

Beginning June 14, Allegiant will offer new twice-weekly nonstop service from Richmond to Nashville (BNA)
United Airlines is adding a second daily Denver departure..
JetBlue Airways will "upgauge" its Orlando flights to mainline Airbus aircraft


Now if WN would ever get its act together in the Richmond market things could get real interesting. Good news for a once sleepy airport that is finally starting to realize its potential.

ElroyJetson wrote:

RIC traffic continues to experience explosive growth. April pax numbers were up 15.1% over a year ago and RIC appears to be on target to break the 4 mil passenger mark this year.


http://www.nbc12.com/story/38317703/ric ... ng-in-june

Key facts:


Of note from April:

RIC passenger counts rose 15.1 percent compared to the same period a year ago.
For the first 10 months of FY2018, passenger traffic is up 5 percent.
Aircraft operations saw a 9.6 percent increase during the month, with military, air carrier, general aviation and air taxi operations all reporting year-over-year growth.

The airport also notes that June will bring several changes:

Beginning June 14, Allegiant will offer new twice-weekly nonstop service from Richmond to Nashville (BNA)
United Airlines is adding a second daily Denver departure..
JetBlue Airways will "upgauge" its Orlando flights to mainline Airbus aircraft


Now if WN would ever get its act together in the Richmond market things could get real interesting. Good news for a once sleepy airport that is finally starting to realize its potential.

I would imagine Spirit played a small role in that increase. Nonetheless, it's good to see. I wonder how much longer Southwest can ignore the market.

Sidebar:

The Jamestown-Scotland ferry "Pocahontas" got pressed into service as an aircraft carrier when a company transporting N231HE, a 1979 Mooney M20K, hauled it across the James River to JGG. The wings followed on another trailer.

(from VDOT's Facebook page...)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2534414 ... 688207642/

vatveng wrote:

Sidebar:

The Jamestown-Scotland ferry "Pocahontas" got pressed into service as an aircraft carrier when a company transporting N231HE, a 1979 Mooney M20K, hauled it across the James River to JGG. The wings followed on another trailer.

(from VDOT's Facebook page...)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2534414 ... 688207642/

Which begs the question.......why?

atcsundevil wrote:

vatveng wrote:

Sidebar:

The Jamestown-Scotland ferry "Pocahontas" got pressed into service as an aircraft carrier when a company transporting N231HE, a 1979 Mooney M20K, hauled it across the James River to JGG. The wings followed on another trailer.

(from VDOT's Facebook page...)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2534414 ... 688207642/

Which begs the question.......why?

Not sure why it was being shipped via ground. I haven't been able to find any information as to whether it was recently in an accident, so I'm going to assume it's a maintenance thing.

ElroyJetson wrote:

Confirmed today that the ORF-DEN flight will be a mainline A319.


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... es-in-s18/

That is great news. Currently I commute to ANC and will be SEA soon (company buys a ticket) and this double daily to DEN is a welcome news.
I also like 175 vs crj700 on this route. A lot better aircraft from pax comfort perspective.

I thought it was pretty cool that a waiver was granted to NBC4 to operate their news helicopter over the DC prohibited area (P-56) to film the events around Capital One Arena for Game Four of the Stanley Cup Final. It's the first such waiver granted to a news station since 9/11, and they got some pretty great shots. As a lifelong Caps fan (it used to almost be embarrassing to admit that!), it's great to see the District supporting the team. Granting this waiver under relatively exceptional circumstances helps to make this all just a bit more special. I don't know when the last time a waiver of any kind was granted for P-56 apart from the Open Skies Treaty flight last summer, but I do know that it's indeed an extremely rare occurrence.

https://wtop.com/washington-capitals/20 ... ps-game-4/

atcsundevil wrote:

I thought it was pretty cool that a waiver was granted to NBC4 to operate their news helicopter over the DC prohibited area (P-56) to film the events around Capital One Arena for Game Four of the Stanley Cup Final. It's the first such waiver granted to a news station since 9/11, and they got some pretty great shots. As a lifelong Caps fan (it used to almost be embarrassing to admit that!), it's great to see the District supporting the team. Granting this waiver under relatively exceptional circumstances helps to make this all just a bit more special. I don't know when the last time a waiver of any kind was granted for P-56 apart from the Open Skies Treaty flight last summer, but I do know that it's indeed an extremely rare occurrence.

https://wtop.com/washington-capitals/20 ... ps-game-4/

Didn't know that. As much as I'd like to see boys win it at home on Sunday, I'm all for avoiding the drama tomorrow night. I want a parade down Pennsylvania Ave. that has nothing to do with presidents...and another P-56 waiver! GO CAPS!

LoudounHound wrote:

atcsundevil wrote:

I thought it was pretty cool that a waiver was granted to NBC4 to operate their news helicopter over the DC prohibited area (P-56) to film the events around Capital One Arena for Game Four of the Stanley Cup Final. It's the first such waiver granted to a news station since 9/11, and they got some pretty great shots. As a lifelong Caps fan (it used to almost be embarrassing to admit that!), it's great to see the District supporting the team. Granting this waiver under relatively exceptional circumstances helps to make this all just a bit more special. I don't know when the last time a waiver of any kind was granted for P-56 apart from the Open Skies Treaty flight last summer, but I do know that it's indeed an extremely rare occurrence.

https://wtop.com/washington-capitals/20 ... ps-game-4/

Didn't know that. As much as I'd like to see boys win it at home on Sunday, I'm all for avoiding the drama tomorrow night. I want a parade down Pennsylvania Ave. that has nothing to do with presidents...and another P-56 waiver! GO CAPS!

As long as any celebration happens outside of M-F rush hours. Some of us have to get to and from work...

CapitalAvGeek wrote:

United today said that they see an opportunity to grow at Dulles. I see room to grow in new Mid-Atlantic markets such as BYH, PHF, AVL, AVP, and ABE. In most of these cities, AA and DL have multiple flights a day to their hubs with only a couple having service to EWR or ORD.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-447820/

I have recently seen UA upgage a few flights out of IAD and see more in the summer schedule. Currently, one flight on IAD-JAX upgauged to a 737, one flight on IAD-CVG upgaged to an A320 and one flight on IAD-PIT upgaged to an A320. During the summer 2 daily flights on IAD-PWM upgauged to mainline and 1 flight on IAD-PHL.

Would love to see UA upgage IAD service to my beloved hometown, CMH. Every time I've been on a flight, it's been quite full. If they're doing it to CVG, they can definitely do it to CMH.

blockski wrote:

DSFTEBMNZ wrote:

Metro is reporting an 11% drop in ridership at the DCA stop from 930k in FY17 to 830k in FY18. I’m not sure what to make of that. It’s not just “safetrack” but a trend towards alternative transportation, according to the comments below.

https://www.arlnow.com/2018/05/24/arlin ... safetrack/

Quote
The station at Reagan National Airport recorded the largest drop of any Arlington location from 2017 to 2018, with a roughly 10.8 percent decrease. Ridership there also declined by 17.5 percent since 2016, the second largest drop in the county.

I think it's mostly SafeTrack.

There are no doubt lots of ridership pressures from companies like Uber and Lyft, but the story for ridership in FY 2017 and 2018 was SafeTrack. WMATA's fiscal year runs July to June, so that's really a measure from summer 2016 through today - which is exactly when the impact from SafeTrack was the highest.

WMATA hasn't yet seen ridership rebound yet, but they're going to need to provide better off-peak service to get ridership growing again.

SafeTrack has been completed for a while now. This excuse can't be used forever.

TBH ridership hasn't rebounded since several incidents earlier in the decade where employee/management incompetency cost lives. WMATA's problems started long before Safetrack.

I see a lot of opinions on METRO on here but you can tell the comments of people who actually ride the system on a regular basis.

Also, DCA pax numbers are down 4.7% for Jan and Feb y-o-y. I believe March was down as well although MWAA hasn't posted those stats yet. This decline is part of the issue behind the station's reduced usage as well.

izbtmnhd wrote:

blockski wrote:

DSFTEBMNZ wrote:

Metro is reporting an 11% drop in ridership at the DCA stop from 930k in FY17 to 830k in FY18. I’m not sure what to make of that. It’s not just “safetrack” but a trend towards alternative transportation, according to the comments below.

https://www.arlnow.com/2018/05/24/arlin ... safetrack/

Quote
The station at Reagan National Airport recorded the largest drop of any Arlington location from 2017 to 2018, with a roughly 10.8 percent decrease. Ridership there also declined by 17.5 percent since 2016, the second largest drop in the county.

I think it's mostly SafeTrack.

There are no doubt lots of ridership pressures from companies like Uber and Lyft, but the story for ridership in FY 2017 and 2018 was SafeTrack. WMATA's fiscal year runs July to June, so that's really a measure from summer 2016 through today - which is exactly when the impact from SafeTrack was the highest.

WMATA hasn't yet seen ridership rebound yet, but they're going to need to provide better off-peak service to get ridership growing again.

SafeTrack has been completed for a while now. This excuse can't be used forever.

SafeTrack might be over, but that's not going to be reflected in the data that's looking at a drop since 2016. This isn't an excuse (Metro's ridership is definitely down), but a point about bad/misleading use of statistics.

TBH ridership hasn't rebounded since several incidents earlier in the decade where employee/management incompetency cost lives. WMATA's problems started long before Safetrack.

This narrative is also wrong. Riders didn't leave the system because of those incidents, not directly. The Red Line crash in 2009 didn't dramatically decrease ridership. What did decrease ridership was the track work that followed, as that crash served as a wake-up call about the region's lack of commitment to preventative maintenance.

We know it's the track work that caused poor service off-peak; and off-peak hours are where the ridership losses were heaviest. And that decline didn't happen right away in 2009, it happened several years later as the work really ramped up.

Metro staff and leadership had been sounding the alarm about deferred maintenance years earlier, by the way. Here's former GM Dick White in 2004: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... 639ad5f99e

I see a lot of opinions on METRO on here but you can tell the comments of people who actually ride the system on a regular basis.

I ride daily.

Also, DCA pax numbers are down 4.7% for Jan and Feb y-o-y. I believe March was down as well although MWAA hasn't posted those stats yet. This decline is part of the issue behind the station's reduced usage as well.

Yes, I suspect this is part of it, but I would note that a lot of airport transit usage in general isn't passengers but employees and other folks who won't show up in the enplanement stats.

izbtmnhd wrote:

blockski wrote:

DSFTEBMNZ wrote:

Metro is reporting an 11% drop in ridership at the DCA stop from 930k in FY17 to 830k in FY18. I’m not sure what to make of that. It’s not just “safetrack” but a trend towards alternative transportation, according to the comments below.

https://www.arlnow.com/2018/05/24/arlin ... safetrack/

Quote
The station at Reagan National Airport recorded the largest drop of any Arlington location from 2017 to 2018, with a roughly 10.8 percent decrease. Ridership there also declined by 17.5 percent since 2016, the second largest drop in the county.

I think it's mostly SafeTrack.

There are no doubt lots of ridership pressures from companies like Uber and Lyft, but the story for ridership in FY 2017 and 2018 was SafeTrack. WMATA's fiscal year runs July to June, so that's really a measure from summer 2016 through today - which is exactly when the impact from SafeTrack was the highest.

WMATA hasn't yet seen ridership rebound yet, but they're going to need to provide better off-peak service to get ridership growing again.

SafeTrack has been completed for a while now. This excuse can't be used forever.

TBH ridership hasn't rebounded since several incidents earlier in the decade where employee/management incompetency cost lives. WMATA's problems started long before Safetrack.

I see a lot of opinions on METRO on here but you can tell the comments of people who actually ride the system on a regular basis.

Also, DCA pax numbers are down 4.7% for Jan and Feb y-o-y. I believe March was down as well although MWAA hasn't posted those stats yet. This decline is part of the issue behind the station's reduced usage as well.

Its going to be a long time before WMATA sees a passenger rebound. And it has nothing to do with passenger confidence or scheduling. It has to do with telecommuting. The Federal workforce is a huge user of Metro and the Federal government has strongly encouraged teleworking. Its workforce has responded with a resounding "aye"! Go to any major federal building on a Friday or a Monday - you could play hallway hockey in the corridors and nobody would even open their doors to look outside to check out the commotion. To provide some numbers, I've got a very close friend who is a higher up in operations at Commerce - she estimates that the "occupancy" rate the HCHB on a Friday is about 25%.

Frontier's ORF-DEN/MCO service hasn't started yet, but they announced yesterday that F9 is adding ORF-LAS nonstop Tu/Th/Su.

Frontier press release: https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... low-as-39/

ORF twitter announcement: https://t.co/Dd1Z93uCRD

vatveng wrote:

Frontier's ORF-DEN/MCO service hasn't started yet, but they announced yesterday that F9 is adding ORF-LAS nonstop Tu/Th/Su.

Frontier press release: https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... low-as-39/

ORF twitter announcement: https://t.co/Dd1Z93uCRD

WN flew ORF-LAS for many years but eventually dropped the route. It looks like yet another circumstance where WN abandons a route and another LCC moves in a takes it over. Good for F9. I expect the route will be successful.

blockski wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

blockski wrote:

I think it's mostly SafeTrack.

There are no doubt lots of ridership pressures from companies like Uber and Lyft, but the story for ridership in FY 2017 and 2018 was SafeTrack. WMATA's fiscal year runs July to June, so that's really a measure from summer 2016 through today - which is exactly when the impact from SafeTrack was the highest.

WMATA hasn't yet seen ridership rebound yet, but they're going to need to provide better off-peak service to get ridership growing again.

SafeTrack has been completed for a while now. This excuse can't be used forever.

SafeTrack might be over, but that's not going to be reflected in the data that's looking at a drop since 2016. This isn't an excuse (Metro's ridership is definitely down), but a point about bad/misleading use of statistics.

TBH ridership hasn't rebounded since several incidents earlier in the decade where employee/management incompetency cost lives. WMATA's problems started long before Safetrack.

This narrative is also wrong. Riders didn't leave the system because of those incidents, not directly. The Red Line crash in 2009 didn't dramatically decrease ridership. What did decrease ridership was the track work that followed, as that crash served as a wake-up call about the region's lack of commitment to preventative maintenance.

We know it's the track work that caused poor service off-peak; and off-peak hours are where the ridership losses were heaviest. And that decline didn't happen right away in 2009, it happened several years later as the work really ramped up.

Metro staff and leadership had been sounding the alarm about deferred maintenance years earlier, by the way. Here's former GM Dick White in 2004: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... 639ad5f99e

I see a lot of opinions on METRO on here but you can tell the comments of people who actually ride the system on a regular basis.

I ride daily.

Also, DCA pax numbers are down 4.7% for Jan and Feb y-o-y. I believe March was down as well although MWAA hasn't posted those stats yet. This decline is part of the issue behind the station's reduced usage as well.

Yes, I suspect this is part of it, but I would note that a lot of airport transit usage in general isn't passengers but employees and other folks who won't show up in the enplanement stats.

Misleading? I'll provide you data.

https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/plans ... ership.pdf

Ridership peaked in 2009 leveled off after the Red Line crash and declined steadily since 2012. Coincidence? The declines just accelerated with Safetrack and other incidents. This is basic knowledge of anyone who lives in the area.

Funding? Should I post article after article on how much WMATA incompetency Paul Wiedefeld found after he took charge that had nothing to do with money.

For example:
https://wtop.com/tracking-metro-24-7/20 ... d-reports/
Alot of WMATA's safety problems aren't stemming from lack of cash.

I ride daily too. Which is strange why you would think IAD-Arlington is a viable alternative to DCA. Maybe you haven't done the transfer at Rosslyn. It's painless and fast. Even off peak it'll be faster than the walkway to IAD plus the train/mobile lounge there.

washingtonflyer wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

blockski wrote:

I think it's mostly SafeTrack.

There are no doubt lots of ridership pressures from companies like Uber and Lyft, but the story for ridership in FY 2017 and 2018 was SafeTrack. WMATA's fiscal year runs July to June, so that's really a measure from summer 2016 through today - which is exactly when the impact from SafeTrack was the highest.

WMATA hasn't yet seen ridership rebound yet, but they're going to need to provide better off-peak service to get ridership growing again.

SafeTrack has been completed for a while now. This excuse can't be used forever.

TBH ridership hasn't rebounded since several incidents earlier in the decade where employee/management incompetency cost lives. WMATA's problems started long before Safetrack.

I see a lot of opinions on METRO on here but you can tell the comments of people who actually ride the system on a regular basis.

Also, DCA pax numbers are down 4.7% for Jan and Feb y-o-y. I believe March was down as well although MWAA hasn't posted those stats yet. This decline is part of the issue behind the station's reduced usage as well.

Its going to be a long time before WMATA sees a passenger rebound. And it has nothing to do with passenger confidence or scheduling. It has to do with telecommuting. The Federal workforce is a huge user of Metro and the Federal government has strongly encouraged teleworking. Its workforce has responded with a resounding "aye"! Go to any major federal building on a Friday or a Monday - you could play hallway hockey in the corridors and nobody would even open their doors to look outside to check out the commotion. To provide some numbers, I've got a very close friend who is a higher up in operations at Commerce - she estimates that the "occupancy" rate the HCHB on a Friday is about 25%.

I agree and Washington isn't alone in this. Part of the enhanced telecommuting culture in this region is because of WMATA repeated incompetency though.

That is certainly true. During Safetrack, WMATA basically dared commuters to find alternate means and methods. Here too, the commuters answered with an "aye"!

Other systems are reporting drops - NYC, SFO's BART, ATLs MARTA, San Diego's MTS, and others have reported drops in 2017. NYC can blame bad delay and track issues. But BART? Mind you that BART's 2017 figure is down from an all time peak in 2016. But, these discussions are for another message board.

washingtonflyer wrote:

That is certainly true. During Safetrack, WMATA basically dared commuters to find alternate means and methods. Here too, the commuters answered with an "aye"!

Other systems are reporting drops - NYC, SFO's BART, ATLs MARTA, San Diego's MTS, and others have reported drops in 2017. NYC can blame bad delay and track issues. But BART? Mind you that BART's 2017 figure is down from an all time peak in 2016. But, these discussions are for another message board.

I agree about going off topic. I'll just leave it here.

izbtmnhd wrote:

blockski wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

SafeTrack has been completed for a while now. This excuse can't be used forever.

SafeTrack might be over, but that's not going to be reflected in the data that's looking at a drop since 2016. This isn't an excuse (Metro's ridership is definitely down), but a point about bad/misleading use of statistics.

TBH ridership hasn't rebounded since several incidents earlier in the decade where employee/management incompetency cost lives. WMATA's problems started long before Safetrack.

This narrative is also wrong. Riders didn't leave the system because of those incidents, not directly. The Red Line crash in 2009 didn't dramatically decrease ridership. What did decrease ridership was the track work that followed, as that crash served as a wake-up call about the region's lack of commitment to preventative maintenance.

We know it's the track work that caused poor service off-peak; and off-peak hours are where the ridership losses were heaviest. And that decline didn't happen right away in 2009, it happened several years later as the work really ramped up.

Metro staff and leadership had been sounding the alarm about deferred maintenance years earlier, by the way. Here's former GM Dick White in 2004: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... 639ad5f99e

I see a lot of opinions on METRO on here but you can tell the comments of people who actually ride the system on a regular basis.

I ride daily.

Also, DCA pax numbers are down 4.7% for Jan and Feb y-o-y. I believe March was down as well although MWAA hasn't posted those stats yet. This decline is part of the issue behind the station's reduced usage as well.

Yes, I suspect this is part of it, but I would note that a lot of airport transit usage in general isn't passengers but employees and other folks who won't show up in the enplanement stats.

Misleading? I'll provide you data.

https://www.wmata.com/initiatives/plans ... ership.pdf

Ridership peaked in 2009 leveled off after the Red Line crash and declined steadily since 2012. Coincidence? The declines just accelerated with Safetrack and other incidents. This is basic knowledge of anyone who lives in the area.

The data is not misleading at all; but your interpretation of the cause is. Ridership did indeed peak in 2009. It was essentially flat until 2012, when the track work ramped up. That's when the ridership really started to decline.

You said the riders left because of the fatalities; the data suggests they left because of the poor service, caused by the (necessary) track work.

Funding? Should I post article after article on how much WMATA incompetency Paul Wiedefeld found after he took charge that had nothing to do with money.

For example:
https://wtop.com/tracking-metro-24-7/20 ... d-reports/
Alot of WMATA's safety problems aren't stemming from lack of cash.

I'm not sure what you're even responding to here. WMATA's got lots of issues, that doesn't mean it wasn't also chronically under-funded.

I ride daily too. Which is strange why you would think IAD-Arlington is a viable alternative to DCA. Maybe you haven't done the transfer at Rosslyn. It's painless and fast. Even off peak it'll be faster than the walkway to IAD plus the train/mobile lounge there.

Again, I'm not sure what you're referring to.

ElroyJetson wrote:

vatveng wrote:

Frontier's ORF-DEN/MCO service hasn't started yet, but they announced yesterday that F9 is adding ORF-LAS nonstop Tu/Th/Su.

Frontier press release: https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... low-as-39/

ORF twitter announcement: https://t.co/Dd1Z93uCRD

WN flew ORF-LAS for many years but eventually dropped the route. It looks like yet another circumstance where WN abandons a route and another LCC moves in a takes it over. Good for F9. I expect the route will be successful.

Yeah, about five years ago WN cut back on a whole slew of nonstop destinations from ORF (and started behaving like a legacy carrier, forcing many customers flying from mid-sized cities to route through their hubs). Up until then it also flew ORF-JAX 2xDaily for many years. Allegiant is starting to fly that route seasonally next week. Hopefully they’ll go year-round at some point.

flybaby wrote:

Yeah, about five years ago WN cut back on a whole slew of nonstop destinations from ORF (and started behaving like a legacy carrier, forcing many customers flying from mid-sized cities to route through their hubs). Up until then it also flew ORF-JAX 2xDaily for many years. Allegiant is starting to fly that route seasonally next week. Hopefully they’ll go year-round at some point.

It was during the merger. When they shut down AirTran at PHF, they also dropped a lot of their own ORF routes. BNA, LAS both gone, TPA seasonal never returned, and MDW frequency cut.

And now WN's jumping on the DEN less-than-daily bandwagon.

ElroyJetson wrote:

Now if WN would ever get its act together in the Richmond market things could get real interesting. Good news for a once sleepy airport that is finally starting to realize its potential.

RIC is in a large enough market to support nonstop service to more than just ATL on WN. Many of the markets that are similar in size to RIC, including BHM, BUF, BDL, SDF, MSY, and OKC, already have daily nonstop service to at least 7 destinations on WN and at least 10 daily departures on WN.

RIC is located in the largest market in the contiguous U.S. with WN service that has never had nonstop service to MDW on WN, and WN would be able to connect passengers to additional destinations from RIC through MDW if it added RIC-MDW nonstop service.

The lack of nonstop service to LAS from RIC is a huge hole, and there is enough demand for WN to add RIC-LAS nonstop service if another airline doesn't add RIC-LAS nonstop service. There are also already many travelers who connect to California destinations from RIC, and WN would be able to connect passengers to California destinations from RIC through LAS if it added RIC-LAS nonstop service.

In addition to MDW and LAS, WN also has opportunities to add nonstop service to DEN, FLL, BNA, and TPA from RIC. WN can grow its customer base in the RIC area and stimulate additional demand for WN service out of RIC if it adds nonstop service to additional destinations out of RIC. WN would also be able to capture more of the leisure travel to Virginia (including to places in Virginia beyond the Richmond metro area such as Williamsburg, Lynchburg, Charlottesville, Monticello, and Shenandoah National Park) if it adds nonstop service to more destinations out of RIC.

I think you have to look at the geography to see what can be served. A suitable comparison would be ORF which is 70 miles to the east. ORF sees service to BWI and DCA which RIC won't owing to proximity. ORF does have service to LAS while RIC has service to BNA. That being said, ORF's monthly passenger count is about double that of RIC.

The DOT traffic stats will show how many PDEWs there are between RIC and LAS....

washingtonflyer wrote:

I think you have to look at the geography to see what can be served. A suitable comparison would be ORF which is 70 miles to the east. ORF sees service to BWI and DCA which RIC won't owing to proximity. ORF does have service to LAS while RIC has service to BNA. That being said, ORF's monthly passenger count is about double that of RIC.

The DOT traffic stats will show how many PDEWs there are between RIC and LAS....

ORF used to have nonstop service to LAS on WN in the past, but WN had discontinued ORF-LAS nonstop service. F9 has already announced ORF-LAS nonstop service, but F9 ORF-LAS nonstop service doesn't start until August 14th.

In Q3 2017, the DOT Domestic Consumer Airfare Report showed an average of 192 passengers per day who traveled between RIC and LAS (in both directions), an average of 288 passengers a day who traveled between RIC and Greater Los Angeles (in both directions), and an average of 210 passengers a day who traveled between RIC and the San Francisco Bay Area (in both directions). There is probably enough demand for WN to add RIC-LAS nonstop service if another airline doesn't add RIC-LAS nonstop service since WN would be able to carry connecting traffic between RIC and California destinations on its RIC-LAS nonstops in addition to O&D traffic if it adds RIC-LAS nonstop service.

In my opinion, WN would actually likely do well on at least some of its added nonstop routes out of RIC if WN adds nonstop service to additional destinations out of RIC for the following reasons:

• WN would be able to capture more of the leisure travel to Virginia if RIC was served nonstop from additional destinations
• There would be some travelers who would fly into RIC on WN instead of ORF, DCA, BWI, or RDU if WN served RIC nonstop from more than just ATL
• WN would be able to capture more of the University of Virginia-related travel with RIC being the closest commercial airport served by WN to Charlottesville
• WN would be able to capture more of the business travel to the Richmond area from other parts of the country if it added nonstop service to RIC from additional destinations
• RIC is in a large enough market to support nonstop service to more than just ATL on WN
• WN has done well on nonstop routes to MDW, DEN, LAS, and PHX from markets that are similar in size to RIC

jplatts wrote:

washingtonflyer wrote:

I think you have to look at the geography to see what can be served. A suitable comparison would be ORF which is 70 miles to the east. ORF sees service to BWI and DCA which RIC won't owing to proximity. ORF does have service to LAS while RIC has service to BNA. That being said, ORF's monthly passenger count is about double that of RIC.

The DOT traffic stats will show how many PDEWs there are between RIC and LAS....

ORF used to have nonstop service to LAS on WN in the past, but WN had discontinued ORF-LAS nonstop service. F9 has already announced ORF-LAS nonstop service, but F9 ORF-LAS nonstop service doesn't start until August 14th.

In Q3 2017, the DOT Domestic Consumer Airfare Report showed an average of 192 passengers per day who traveled between RIC and LAS (in both directions), an average of 288 passengers a day who traveled between RIC and Greater Los Angeles (in both directions), and an average of 210 passengers a day who traveled between RIC and the San Francisco Bay Area (in both directions). There is enough demand for WN to add RIC-LAS nonstop service since WN would be able to carry connecting traffic between RIC and California destinations on its RIC-LAS nonstops in addition to O&D traffic if it adds RIC-LAS nonstop service.

Using those numbers kind of makes a lot of assumptions though. 192 pax per day is about 96 each way. Their smallest type is the 737-700 with 143 seats. Based on those averages, that's less than a 70% load factor assuming they captured all RIC/LAS passengers. Obviously a direct flight stimulates new passengers and would add to those numbers, but I don't know if the numbers would be significant enough to fill enough seats profitably. Allegiant might fare better on this route, because most people going to Vegas want to fly cheap. Not to mention Southwest doesn't have a whole lot of brand recognition or loyalty in Richmond.

RIC to PHX and/or LAX would be the more successful ventures. PHX would link to a strong west coast hub for connections, and LAX is obviously a popular destination city.

jplatts wrote:

WN would be able to capture more of the leisure travel to Virginia if RIC was served nonstop from additional destinations

Indeed. They have thus far not made an effort.

jplatts wrote:

There would be some travelers who would fly into RIC on WN instead of ORF, DCA, BWI, or RDU if WN served RIC nonstop from more than just ATL

Most people flying domestically from the Richmond area fly from RIC. That wasn't the case 15+ years ago when fares were some of the highest in the nation, but most people would rather fly from RIC and connect rather than deal with DC or Norfolk traffic. Most people only drive to IAD for an international flight, or to PHF/ORF for a really good fare. Most people wouldn't drive to DCA because of traffic, and I've never heard of someone driving to BWI or RDU.

jplatts wrote:

WN would be able to capture more of the University of Virginia-related travel with RIC being the closest commercial airport served by WN to Charlottesville

Maybe, but the drive to IAD isn't really much worse than driving to RIC for most people who live around Charlottesville. There aren't significant numbers of these passengers though...a huge number of UVa students are in-state.

jplatts wrote:

WN would be able to capture more of the business travel to the Richmond area from other parts of the country if it added nonstop service to RIC from additional destinations

Indeed. They have thus far not made an effort.

jplatts wrote:

RIC is in a large enough market to support nonstop service to more than just ATL on WN

Agreed.

An excellent summary imho regarding the WN issues at RIC. I agree with the comments made and would add that the good news is Spirit, Jet Blue, and Allegiant has filled much of the void. I used to love WN back in the day but I think they have made a number of strategically poor decisions since the merger with Air Tran (for example ditching a perfectly good 717 fleet for practically nothing).

I find much of their route planning to be uninspiring and not particularly helpful to their long term success. I miss the more risk taking and creative WN back in the Kelleher days. I think they have become stodgy and way too conservative.

Again, just my opinion.....WN is certainly quite profitable, but I think they are missing a lot of opportunities and feeding profits and money to their competitors....particularly DL and G4.

ElroyJetson wrote:

I think they have become stodgy and way too conservative.

I know this will ruffle some feathers, but they're just like any other airline now. It's been a slow build over the past 10+ years, but they've been indistinguishable from any "normal" airline for quite a long time. They still have strong brand loyalty among their flyers, and they still have a particular corporate culture, but most of that is just clinging to nostalgia. Operationally, there's very little that actually sets them apart from any mainline carrier. Sure, bags fly free and ticket changes are free (or at least cheap...I can't remember if they changed that), but that's about it. They just aren't special anymore, even if they think they still are. Clearly their competitors are filling their void at RIC, and I fully expect that to continue.

March numbers from MWAA.

http://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/files ... ort_v2.pdf

IAD growth has really come back with IAD growing 9.7% in March while DCA shrunk by 3.6%.

BWI still growing strong as well driven by NK and WN growth.

It looks like the RIC-DEN flight has gotten even more of a boost lately.

The morning flight was originally supposed to be operated by Skywest on the E175 this summer as SKW5288, and the evening flight on UA mainline with an A319 as UAL2418.

Instead, the SKW flight has only been operating on Sunday mornings. Every other day of the week, the morning flight is an A319 as UAL2403, and the evening flight operated by an A320.

In two years, this route has gone from a five weekly E175 (380 seats per week) to a daily A319 and A320 except Sunday (1,894 seats per week). Granted this boost is just for the summer, and maybe not even the entire summer, but it's still pretty impressive nonetheless.

atcsundevil wrote:

It looks like the RIC-DEN flight has gotten even more of a boost lately.

Will WN or F9 ever add RIC-DEN nonstop service? RIC is located in the largest U.S. metropolitan area that doesn't currently have any nonstop LCC service to DEN (excluding already announced F9 nonstop service to DEN that hasn't yet started). RIC is also one of the few remaining destinations in the contiguous U.S. that WN could add nonstop service to out of DEN that isn't in competition with existing or already announced F9 service.

jplatts wrote:

atcsundevil wrote:

It looks like the RIC-DEN flight has gotten even more of a boost lately.

Will WN or F9 ever add RIC-DEN nonstop service? RIC is located in the largest U.S. metropolitan area that doesn't currently have any nonstop LCC service to DEN (excluding already announced F9 nonstop service to DEN that hasn't yet started). RIC is also one of the few remaining destinations in the contiguous U.S. that WN could add nonstop service to out of DEN that isn't in competition with existing or already announced F9 service.

Probably not. WN hasn't flown anything other than the ATL route since the merger, and F9 is a basketcase. Besides, a new west coast route would be better off going to PHX or LAX. I don't really think the lack of an LCC on the DEN route makes much of a difference..I've looked at the fares a few times and it's comparable to flying from IAD, which has competing service from WN (not that I'd really call them an LCC) and F9.

atcsundevil wrote:

It looks like the RIC-DEN flight has gotten even more of a boost lately.

The morning flight was originally supposed to be operated by Skywest on the E175 this summer as SKW5288, and the evening flight on UA mainline with an A319 as UAL2418.

Instead, the SKW flight has only been operating on Sunday mornings. Every other day of the week, the morning flight is an A319 as UAL2403, and the evening flight operated by an A320.

In two years, this route has gone from a five weekly E175 (380 seats per week) to a daily A319 and A320 except Sunday (1,894 seats per week). Granted this boost is just for the summer, and maybe not even the entire summer, but it's still pretty impressive nonetheless.

Thanks for the updated information. This is excellent news for the RIC market. I commend UA for taking the risk to start the route in the first place. Clearly the route is profitable....the last I looked the evening flight was averaging an over 80% load factor with with good yields.

I know UA has been looking to increase their domestic market share, The RIC flights and the new ORF-DEN service is a nice start.

ElroyJetson wrote:

Thanks for the updated information. This is excellent news for the RIC market. I commend UA for taking the risk to start the route in the first place. Clearly the route is profitable....the last I looked the evening flight was averaging an over 80% load factor with with good yields.

I know UA has been looking to increase their domestic market share, The RIC flights and the new ORF-DEN service is a nice start.

Yeah, I guess the ORF service started fairly recently? I've only seen it a few times. Funny enough, it departs at almost the exact same time as the morning flight off of RIC (or at least they came off within a couple minutes of each other this morning). I guess we're going to have to start sequencing for Denver soon. Lol

Anyone know why the Condor flight from BWI to Frankfurt has been so heavily delayed the last week? It's had delays of 90+ minutes all week

RIC sets new record for number of passengers in one month, 13% increase over last year.

Air Service Notes:
Several June route enhancements are now in effect, including:

United upgauged Richmond-Denver nonstop flights to twice-daily utilizing mainline aircraft.
JetBlue upgauged Richmond-Orlando nonstop flights to mainline aircraft.
Allegiant launched first-ever Richmond-Nashville service on June 14th.
In June, Delta has increased Atlanta departures to ten each day. Delta has also added additional daily frequencies to Detroit and Minneapolis.
American has increased Miami departures to twice-daily.

http://flyrichmond.com/index.php/news/article/ric-sets-new-all-time-monthly-passenger-record1

Apr-2018 YTD reported numbers for BWI, DCA and IAD in the category of top 50 large hubs:

2018 2017 AAGR Intl. pax Intl. pax %
BWI 8,268,166 7,794,655 6.07% 115,345 1.40%
DCA 7,377,487 7,586,741 -2.76% 106,630 1.45%
IAD 6,821,011 6,539,426 4.31% 2,230,888 32.71%

Only 4 months reported thus far and the year is young - Both BWI and IAD have shown growth - DCA surprising has posted negative growth. Granted, they have only reported 4 months of data.

RicFlyer wrote:

RIC sets new record for number of passengers in one month, 13% increase over last year.

Air Service Notes:
Several June route enhancements are now in effect, including:

United upgauged Richmond-Denver nonstop flights to twice-daily utilizing mainline aircraft.
JetBlue upgauged Richmond-Orlando nonstop flights to mainline aircraft.
Allegiant launched first-ever Richmond-Nashville service on June 14th.
In June, Delta has increased Atlanta departures to ten each day. Delta has also added additional daily frequencies to Detroit and Minneapolis.
American has increased Miami departures to twice-daily.

http://flyrichmond.com/index.php/news/article/ric-sets-new-all-time-monthly-passenger-record1

“JetBlue upgauged Richmond-Orlando nonstop flights to mainline aircraft.”

I didn’t know they had non-mainline aircraft.

FLIHGH wrote:

RicFlyer wrote:

RIC sets new record for number of passengers in one month, 13% increase over last year.

Air Service Notes:
Several June route enhancements are now in effect, including:

United upgauged Richmond-Denver nonstop flights to twice-daily utilizing mainline aircraft.
JetBlue upgauged Richmond-Orlando nonstop flights to mainline aircraft.
Allegiant launched first-ever Richmond-Nashville service on June 14th.
In June, Delta has increased Atlanta departures to ten each day. Delta has also added additional daily frequencies to Detroit and Minneapolis.
American has increased Miami departures to twice-daily.

http://flyrichmond.com/index.php/news/article/ric-sets-new-all-time-monthly-passenger-record1

“JetBlue upgauged Richmond-Orlando nonstop flights to mainline aircraft.”

I didn’t know they had non-mainline aircraft.

They use their Airbus vs Embraer aircraft.

iyerhari wrote:

FLIHGH wrote:

RicFlyer wrote:

RIC sets new record for number of passengers in one month, 13% increase over last year.



http://flyrichmond.com/index.php/news/article/ric-sets-new-all-time-monthly-passenger-record1

“JetBlue upgauged Richmond-Orlando nonstop flights to mainline aircraft.”

I didn’t know they had non-mainline aircraft.

They use their Airbus vs Embraer aircraft.

All B6 aircraft are mainline, just the E190 is smaller than the A320. In fact, non-mainline aircraft technically has nothing to do with the size of the aircraft, rather, whether the flights are operated by regional carriers, which none of JetBlue's flights are.
Also FWIW, the E190 is considered mainline aircraft for American.

BWIAirport wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

FLIHGH wrote:

“JetBlue upgauged Richmond-Orlando nonstop flights to mainline aircraft.”

I didn’t know they had non-mainline aircraft.

They use their Airbus vs Embraer aircraft.

All B6 aircraft are mainline, just the E190 is smaller than the A320. In fact, non-mainline aircraft technically has nothing to do with the size of the aircraft, rather, whether the flights are operated by regional carriers, which none of JetBlue's flights are.
Also FWIW, the E190 is considered mainline aircraft for American.

Yes, but I think we all get the point. They're using fewer E190s, which is a large regional jet, and using more A320s instead. While using the word "mainline" isn't entirely correct, we still know what it means. In any case, it's relatively significant because JetBlue have served RIC for roughly a dozen years, and apart from the occasional sub, they've never used a regularly scheduled A320 from RIC.

RicFlyer wrote:

RIC sets new record for number of passengers in one month, 13% increase over last year.

Air Service Notes:
Several June route enhancements are now in effect, including:

United upgauged Richmond-Denver nonstop flights to twice-daily utilizing mainline aircraft.
JetBlue upgauged Richmond-Orlando nonstop flights to mainline aircraft.
Allegiant launched first-ever Richmond-Nashville service on June 14th.
In June, Delta has increased Atlanta departures to ten each day. Delta has also added additional daily frequencies to Detroit and Minneapolis.
American has increased Miami departures to twice-daily.

http://flyrichmond.com/index.php/news/article/ric-sets-new-all-time-monthly-passenger-record1

RIC looks to be on track to break 4 mil pax this year. The growth is truly amazing. Thanks for the info.

New June data for RIC airport. And yes, RIC continues to experience explosive growth.



https://www.richmond.com/business/local ... 05a60.html


.Key Quote:


Passenger traffic at Richmond International Airport in June set a record for any month.

The airport handled 373,379 passengers in June, the Capital Region Airport Commission reported. June’s traffic marked a 12.1 percent increase compared with the same month in 2017.

This is the third time since October that a new all-time one-month record has been established at the airport.

For the fiscal year that ended June 30, passenger traffic — at 3.83 million — is up 6.32 percent year over year.


The prior month pax traffic was up over 13%. Could RIC become the next RDU?

Just heard this over my house, an An-124. A nice surprise. I wish it wasn't too dark to see it

https://www.flightradar24.com/ADB2553/1d60265f

RIC reported record June traffic and an arrticle on the 6 new gates coming

"Richmond airport has record-setting June with passenger traffic up 12.1 percent"

"For the fiscal year that ended June 30, passenger traffic — at 3.83 million — is up 6.32 percent year over year." https://www.richmond.com/business/local/richmond-airport-has-record-setting-june-with-passenger-traffic-up/article_4cdc8f7d-8625-562a-9b38-aee757805a60.html

"Richmond International Airport soon will undergo a $45 million, 18-month expansion project of Concourse A – a project that will add six new gates to the airport, which currently has 22." https://www.henricocitizen.com/articles/two-airport-expansion-projects-nearing/

RIC continues to grow at a fast rate. Part of June's increase is Sprirt flying to FLL and MCO. Also JetBlue upgauded several of their flights from E-90s to A320s and UA's DEN flights were 2 A320s. Starting in September AA increases and upguages CLT flights from 8 flights (1-A320, 3-A319, 4-CR9) to 9 flights (2-A320, 3-A319, 4-CR9) in October upguage to (2-738, 2-A320, 3-A319, 2-CR9) and MIA goes to 2-E75s in October. Has a resident of Richmond it is good to see this growth.

RicFlyer wrote:

RIC reported record June traffic and an arrticle on the 6 new gates coming

"Richmond airport has record-setting June with passenger traffic up 12.1 percent"

"For the fiscal year that ended June 30, passenger traffic — at 3.83 million — is up 6.32 percent year over year." https://www.richmond.com/business/local/richmond-airport-has-record-setting-june-with-passenger-traffic-up/article_4cdc8f7d-8625-562a-9b38-aee757805a60.html

"Richmond International Airport soon will undergo a $45 million, 18-month expansion project of Concourse A – a project that will add six new gates to the airport, which currently has 22." https://www.henricocitizen.com/articles/two-airport-expansion-projects-nearing/

RIC continues to grow at a fast rate. Part of June's increase is Sprirt flying to FLL and MCO. Also JetBlue upgauded several of their flights from E-90s to A320s and UA's DEN flights were 2 A320s. Starting in September AA increases and upguages CLT flights from 8 flights (1-A320, 3-A319, 4-CR9) to 9 flights (2-A320, 3-A319, 4-CR9) in October upguage to (2-738, 2-A320, 3-A319, 2-CR9) and MIA goes to 2-E75s in October. Has a resident of Richmond it is good to see this growth.

Nice. I guess this effectively builds out the A side, so both concourses should be identical (functionally, maybe not aesthetically since the existing concourse design is about 12 years old). It sounds like what they really need is more ramp space. RIC gets a lot of diversions from IAD and DCA during SWAP season, but they can only take about a half dozen aircraft. It forces a lot of flights to divert down to ORF or points further away. Granted RIC shouldn't build more apron space solely for this purpose, but if they have an increasing number of RON aircraft, it would be a more efficient use of gate space.

Saw some interesting action the other day at DCA:

1) Rapidly shifting winds causing all the anticipated Rwy 1 departures to be rejected (10+ knot tail wind) and all the aircraft taxiied up 1/19 to prepare for Rwy 19 departures. Looked like a conga line.

2) Saw a departure off Rwy 22 for the first time in ages - a J-32.