klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue May 08, 2018 9:19 pm

flymco753 wrote:
There's no local or corporate market for LIT, it LITerally makes no sense to fly there from the Midwest unless it's ORD.



Yes but there is a lot of connection possibilities that can be done over Detroit like I say all of the Northeast. I'm sure there is a lot of traffic that travels between LIT and BOS and NYC which Detroit is the most convenient connection [point not ATL. actually the best connection points for LIT are DTW and SLC only ATL is better for Florida.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue May 08, 2018 9:49 pm

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
There's no local or corporate market for LIT, it LITerally makes no sense to fly there from the Midwest unless it's ORD.



Yes but there is a lot of connection possibilities that can be done over Detroit like I say all of the Northeast. I'm sure there is a lot of traffic that travels between LIT and BOS and NYC which Detroit is the most convenient connection [point not ATL. actually the best connection points for LIT are DTW and SLC only ATL is better for Florida.

And that is why there's a seasonal LIT-DTW nonstop.
By the way, LIT-ATL-JFK and LIT-DTW-JFK are the same distance, both at 1213 miles as the crow flies.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 2:16 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
There's no local or corporate market for LIT, it LITerally makes no sense to fly there from the Midwest unless it's ORD.



Yes but there is a lot of connection possibilities that can be done over Detroit like I say all of the Northeast. I'm sure there is a lot of traffic that travels between LIT and BOS and NYC which Detroit is the most convenient connection [point not ATL. actually the best connection points for LIT are DTW and SLC only ATL is better for Florida.

And that is why there's a seasonal LIT-DTW nonstop.
By the way, LIT-ATL-JFK and LIT-DTW-JFK are the same distance, both at 1213 miles as the crow flies.


Yes you are correct even making Detroit more convenient compared to that mad house called Atlanta.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 3:36 pm

klm617 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:


Yes but there is a lot of connection possibilities that can be done over Detroit like I say all of the Northeast. I'm sure there is a lot of traffic that travels between LIT and BOS and NYC which Detroit is the most convenient connection [point not ATL. actually the best connection points for LIT are DTW and SLC only ATL is better for Florida.

And that is why there's a seasonal LIT-DTW nonstop.
By the way, LIT-ATL-JFK and LIT-DTW-JFK are the same distance, both at 1213 miles as the crow flies.


Yes you are correct even making Detroit more convenient compared to that mad house called Atlanta.

More convenient for the destinations served from Detroit, which are naturally fewer than the ones served from bigger Atlanta.
However, the bigger hub offers more utility.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 3:50 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
And that is why there's a seasonal LIT-DTW nonstop.
By the way, LIT-ATL-JFK and LIT-DTW-JFK are the same distance, both at 1213 miles as the crow flies.


Yes you are correct even making Detroit more convenient compared to that mad house called Atlanta.

More convenient for the destinations served from Detroit, which are naturally fewer than the ones served from bigger Atlanta.
However, the bigger hub offers more utility.



Yes but if customers change their travel habits they can force Delta's hand. If you can't get a connection through Detroit you should chose ORD and not fly endless miles out of your way to connect in Atlanta just because Delta wants you too.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 4:28 pm

klm617 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Yes you are correct even making Detroit more convenient compared to that mad house called Atlanta.

More convenient for the destinations served from Detroit, which are naturally fewer than the ones served from bigger Atlanta.
However, the bigger hub offers more utility.



Yes but if customers change their travel habits they can force Delta's hand. If you can't get a connection through Detroit you should chose ORD and not fly endless miles out of your way to connect in Atlanta just because Delta wants you too.

We were talking about the market of Little Rock, Arkansas. For this market, Atlanta is a very small detour for most destinations.
Moreover, passengers will choose what is best for their itinerary. That may mean where they get convenient flight times, shortest duration, or plain ol' lowest fares. For some seasoned travelers, it may also include avoiding a hellish connecting hub like JFK.
However, expecting travelers in Arkansas to passionately love DTW is asinine. They'll choose the itinerary that serves them best, Detroit or no Detroit, as they ought to.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 7:20 pm

klm617 wrote:
Yes but if customers change their travel habits they can force Delta's hand. If you can't get a connection through Detroit you should chose ORD and not fly endless miles out of your way to connect in Atlanta just because Delta wants you too.


Right but there's this thing called loyalty... which is very much a factor in commercial aviation and it pairs with operational reliability - something that DL does much better than either of the dominant carriers in ORD.

Your average passenger cares about price and schedule followed by loyalty and reliability. Unless they're based in DTW they're not going to relegate any of those preferences for the well-being of DTW.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 8:41 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Yes but if customers change their travel habits they can force Delta's hand. If you can't get a connection through Detroit you should chose ORD and not fly endless miles out of your way to connect in Atlanta just because Delta wants you too.


Right but there's this thing called loyalty... which is very much a factor in commercial aviation and it pairs with operational reliability - something that DL does much better than either of the dominant carriers in ORD.

Your average passenger cares about price and schedule followed by loyalty and reliability. Unless they're based in DTW they're not going to relegate any of those preferences for the well-being of DTW.



Why should I be loyal to somebody the want's to waste my time by making me fly down to ATL when their are several other better options. Let's face the really is no price advantage in places like GRR, TVC where I have to make a connection anyway so I'm going to ORD instead of ATL because of the time savings and if I get stranded at ORD I can always rent a car and drive home something I can't do if I book over Atlanta. Let me tell you this if I can save $50 each way on a round trip even though I'm a Delta FF and carry the free baggage credit card I'm not flying Delta. But one thing I will not do is drive to another airport except FNT or YQG as they serve my region because I am smart enough to know that if I do that things will never change in this market.
Last edited by klm617 on Wed May 09, 2018 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 8:50 pm

klm617 wrote:
Let me tell you this if I can save $50 each way on a round trip even though I'm a Delta FF and carry the free baggage credit card I'm not flying Delta.


You may think that way, but that makes it very much apparent that you're not one of the road warrior corporate travelers who aren't paying for their travel expenses, have elite tier status, and whose tickets are making or breaking route performances. This shouldn't come as a shock, but not all passengers are created equal in the eyes of the airlines; and from a shareholder perspective - rightfully so.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 8:50 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Let me tell you this if I can save $50 each way on a round trip even though I'm a Delta FF and carry the free baggage credit card I'm not flying Delta.


You may think that way, but that makes it very much apparent that you're not one of the road warrior corporate travelers who aren't paying for their travel expenses, have elite tier status, and whose tickets are making or breaking route performances. This shouldn't come as a shock, but not all passengers are created equal in the eyes of the airlines; and from a shareholder perspective - rightfully so.


Right and those people should start making Detroit instead of breaking it in favor of ATL if they live in Michigan. Demand connections over Detroit or walk by using ORD for their travel.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 9:00 pm

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Let me tell you this if I can save $50 each way on a round trip even though I'm a Delta FF and carry the free baggage credit card I'm not flying Delta.


You may think that way, but that makes it very much apparent that you're not one of the road warrior corporate travelers who aren't paying for their travel expenses, have elite tier status, and whose tickets are making or breaking route performances. This shouldn't come as a shock, but not all passengers are created equal in the eyes of the airlines; and from a shareholder perspective - rightfully so.


Right and those people should start making Detroit instead of breaking it in favor of ATL if they live in Michigan. Demand connections over Detroit or walk by using ORD for their travel.


Go to a carrier that's operationally inferior by all objective metrics because they want connections in Detroit? Uhhhh no, that's not how that works, and that's certainly not how corporate contracting works. The employers of those travelers have corporate contracts for the most part with contractually preferred airlines that they're incentivized to book via corporate discounts. If those corporations are based in Michigan, you can bet they contract with Delta. period. They'd be foolish not to given Delta provides service to numerous points in Michigan that otherwise aren't served at all (APN, etc.)
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 9:35 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:

You may think that way, but that makes it very much apparent that you're not one of the road warrior corporate travelers who aren't paying for their travel expenses, have elite tier status, and whose tickets are making or breaking route performances. This shouldn't come as a shock, but not all passengers are created equal in the eyes of the airlines; and from a shareholder perspective - rightfully so.


Right and those people should start making Detroit instead of breaking it in favor of ATL if they live in Michigan. Demand connections over Detroit or walk by using ORD for their travel.


Go to a carrier that's operationally inferior by all objective metrics because they want connections in Detroit? Uhhhh no, that's not how that works, and that's certainly not how corporate contracting works. The employers of those travelers have corporate contracts for the most part with contractually preferred airlines that they're incentivized to book via corporate discounts. If those corporations are based in Michigan, you can bet they contract with Delta. period. They'd be foolish not to given Delta provides service to numerous points in Michigan that otherwise aren't served at all (APN, etc.)



Delta is no better or no worse that AA or UA as far as operational reliability.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 10:20 pm

klm617 wrote:
Delta is no better or no worse that AA or UA as far as operational reliability.


As is becoming a concerning reoccurring theme, you are factually incorrect. Please provide data to back your claim, and if you don't have that data (and I suspect you don't), please mark your claim as speculative or, better yet, wrong.

Here's my data that proves your claim false:

OAG 2018 Punctuality Report, On Time Performance:

Secondary Source: Fortune

Delta: 82.76%
United: 79.86%
American: 78.97%

Statista, 2017 Rate of Mishandled Bags per 1,000 Passengers

Delta: 1.82
United: 2.38
American: 2.84

In conclusion, measured by on time performance and mishandled baggage rate, Delta does have better operational reliability when compared to United and American. They also had a higher completion factor in 2017, although I can't put my finger on the source as of right now.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 11:35 pm

Sooo...just playing devils advocate here, if people shouldn’t connect in places like ATL then why should they accept connecting in KEF for TATL flights???
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 09, 2018 11:50 pm

Did you know that Spirit is in first place for luggage handling lately? My source is the Q1 earnings call for Spirit.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

*Future Route Network Planner*
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 12:10 am

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Delta is no better or no worse that AA or UA as far as operational reliability.


As is becoming a concerning reoccurring theme, you are factually incorrect. Please provide data to back your claim, and if you don't have that data (and I suspect you don't), please mark your claim as speculative or, better yet, wrong.

Here's my data that proves your claim false:

OAG 2018 Punctuality Report, On Time Performance:

Secondary Source: Fortune

Delta: 82.76%
United: 79.86%
American: 78.97%

Statista, 2017 Rate of Mishandled Bags per 1,000 Passengers

Delta: 1.82
United: 2.38
American: 2.84

In conclusion, measured by on time performance and mishandled baggage rate, Delta does have better operational reliability when compared to United and American. They also had a higher completion factor in 2017, although I can't put my finger on the source as of right now.


This again is just a cooperate matrix please us know how many passengers arrive at their destination on time what is the percentage of displaced passengers that did not arrive at their destination on time.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 12:17 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Sooo...just playing devils advocate here, if people shouldn’t connect in places like ATL then why should they accept connecting in KEF for TATL flights???


Good question but right now it is the only alternative for people who are price sensitive because it offers them an affordable option when traveling to Europe and their flight begins and ends at DTW not at some airport 200 miles to 300 miles away. Delta is not offering flights over Atlanta at half the price of their competitors. There is no cost savings by connecting it ATL as there is when traveling through KEF
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
n2dru
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 12:34 am

There seems to be a lot of Atlanta disdain among DTW posters. Why?
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 12:36 am

n2dru wrote:
There seems to be a lot of Atlanta disdain among DTW posters. Why?

Irrational emotional attachment to their airport, and a belief that the WCAA and Delta are conspiring to keep service in Atlanta and not Detroit for some reason.
In other words, fanboyism.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 12:38 am

klm617 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Sooo...just playing devils advocate here, if people shouldn’t connect in places like ATL then why should they accept connecting in KEF for TATL flights???


Good question but right now it is the only alternative for people who are price sensitive because it offers them an affordable option when traveling to Europe and their flight begins and ends at DTW not at some airport 200 miles to 300 miles away. Delta is not offering flights over Atlanta at half the price of their competitors. There is no cost savings by connecting it ATL as there is when traveling through KEF

Then why do people fly connections over ATL when they could choose to fly through another hub?
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 12:39 am

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Delta is no better or no worse that AA or UA as far as operational reliability.


As is becoming a concerning reoccurring theme, you are factually incorrect. Please provide data to back your claim, and if you don't have that data (and I suspect you don't), please mark your claim as speculative or, better yet, wrong.

Here's my data that proves your claim false:

OAG 2018 Punctuality Report, On Time Performance:

Secondary Source: Fortune

Delta: 82.76%
United: 79.86%
American: 78.97%

Statista, 2017 Rate of Mishandled Bags per 1,000 Passengers

Delta: 1.82
United: 2.38
American: 2.84

In conclusion, measured by on time performance and mishandled baggage rate, Delta does have better operational reliability when compared to United and American. They also had a higher completion factor in 2017, although I can't put my finger on the source as of right now.


This again is just a cooperate matrix please us know how many passengers arrive at their destination on time what is the percentage of displaced passengers that did not arrive at their destination on time.


What on earth are you talking about? That is exactly what I've provided. You have factual data proving that Delta runs a more reliable operation than either United or American. Unless you can provide data that even loosely backs your claim to the contrary - please provide it in line with forum rules. If you cannot, be silent on the matter or mark your claims as opinions.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 12:47 am

I personally actually think ATL is an impressive hub and have no personal disdain for what DL has made it to be.
However it can be a bit hectic, Concourse A An B can be a madhouse, and subject to spectacular meltdowns. 90% of the time it runs like a well oiled machine.

a.net fanboy theorims:

CVG fanboys hate DTW
DTW fanboys hate MSP
MSP fanboys hate DTW
SLC fanboys hate MSP
SEA has zero DL fanboys, AS fanboys hate all things DL
MSP and DTW fanboys both hate ATL
ATL fanboys hate MIA and DFW
DFW fanboys hate ATL
QED


n2dru wrote:
There seems to be a lot of Atlanta disdain among DTW posters. Why?
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 1:10 am

n2dru wrote:
There seems to be a lot of Atlanta disdain among DTW posters. Why?



Because Atlanta has severely limited the growth potential at Detroit because Delta is not growing this market at all and the airport authority refuses to aggressively go out and bring in new options in this market to grow this airport because they are in fear of retaliation from their hub carrier. Many Detroit based travers have to drive to Chicago or Toronto to get affordable options to travel internationally thus further eroding the numbers at the airport.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 1:14 am

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Sooo...just playing devils advocate here, if people shouldn’t connect in places like ATL then why should they accept connecting in KEF for TATL flights???


Good question but right now it is the only alternative for people who are price sensitive because it offers them an affordable option when traveling to Europe and their flight begins and ends at DTW not at some airport 200 miles to 300 miles away. Delta is not offering flights over Atlanta at half the price of their competitors. There is no cost savings by connecting it ATL as there is when traveling through KEF

Then why do people fly connections over ATL when they could choose to fly through another hub?



That's a very good question because I can tell you if I lived in Grand Rapids there is no way I'd be flying to Atlanta to take a flight to London not only that because that is happening means there is not enough capacity in the Detroit London market if GRR passengers are being forced over ATL and I'm sure GRR is not the only market where this happens.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 1:39 am

klm617 wrote:
Delta is no better or no worse that AA or UA as far as operational reliability.


We continue to await your data or link that supports this claim. Per forum rules,

e. Factual Statements vs. Opinion
1. When stating facts, statistics or newsworthy bulletins, please be sure to include an HTML link or reference to a publication.
2. If you are merely providing an opinion, please MENTION THIS in your post. It is each member's responsibility to avoid arguments based on rumors or misinformation.


That being the case, please either provide an HTML link supporting your claim or a reference to a publication or data source, and if you're unable to do so please mention that what you are stating is an opinion. Failure to do so will result in your post being reported, and I can only imagine that multiple offenses will result in you being suspended. And we wouldn't want that would we? :D
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 2:35 am

klm617 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Good question but right now it is the only alternative for people who are price sensitive because it offers them an affordable option when traveling to Europe and their flight begins and ends at DTW not at some airport 200 miles to 300 miles away. Delta is not offering flights over Atlanta at half the price of their competitors. There is no cost savings by connecting it ATL as there is when traveling through KEF

Then why do people fly connections over ATL when they could choose to fly through another hub?



That's a very good question because I can tell you if I lived in Grand Rapids there is no way I'd be flying to Atlanta to take a flight to London not only that because that is happening means there is not enough capacity in the Detroit London market if GRR passengers are being forced over ATL and I'm sure GRR is not the only market where this happens.

The claim that they are being forced to go through ATL is ludicrous. They go where it is cheapest/best-timed for them.
As long as the DTW flights aren't at 100% LF, the GRR pax can choose that connection if it matters to them. But they don't, so evidently they don't care that much
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
n2dru
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu May 10, 2018 4:03 am

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
n2dru wrote:
There seems to be a lot of Atlanta disdain among DTW posters. Why?

Irrational emotional attachment to their airport, and a belief that the WCAA and Delta are conspiring to keep service in Atlanta and not Detroit for some reason.
In other words, fanboyism.

Thanks for the clarification. Both are great airports but didn't see the need to discredit or tear one down to build the other up.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun May 13, 2018 2:59 pm

Spirit is dropping the seasonal PDX, not surprised. However I expect NK to allocate that aircraft somewhere else whether it’s a new route or additional frequency on current routes.

My suggestion, shift that off daily A319 that will fly both DFW and MYR to MYR, replace the 2nd daily DFW with the A320. Both routes would than be 2x daily each A320/A319. There would be no need for a split anymore.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

*Future Route Network Planner*
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun May 13, 2018 3:48 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Spirit is dropping the seasonal PDX, not surprised. However I expect NK to allocate that aircraft somewhere else whether it’s a new route or additional frequency on current routes.

My suggestion, shift that off daily A319 that will fly both DFW and MYR to MYR, replace the 2nd daily DFW with the A320. Both routes would than be 2x daily each A320/A319. There would be no need for a split anymore.


Not surprising that they drooped out but that's OK would rather see AS make a go of it than NK
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun May 13, 2018 5:03 pm

They shifted the flight to MYR. MYR will be twice daily A320.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

*Future Route Network Planner*
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun May 13, 2018 6:31 pm

SRQ has always had the demand for at least 1 daily with the JUN-AUG period possibly cut, but even then it doesn't have to be. NW ran twice daily the entire time, as did Republic before them. DL just choose to force SRQ pax over ATL as KLM has stated over and over again. Its not some sleepy retirement community for snowbirds, its in the fastest growing counties in the U.S. for many years now, Manatee, Sarasota and Charlotte counties are and have been top 5/top 10 fastest growing for a few years now, if not the past decade. Its not even mostly snowbirds, its mostly transplants, and those transplants travel back to the D a lot. I am one of them and fly back more than 12 times per year. I am exactly 1 hour from SRQ, 1 hour from RSW, and if there was a nonstop id use it.
Bottom line: F9 has a prime opportunity here to swoop in with their "better than G4 service" and launch SRQ/JAX and PBI, even VPS or PNS and win
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun May 13, 2018 11:25 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
SRQ has always had the demand for at least 1 daily with the JUN-AUG period possibly cut, but even then it doesn't have to be. NW ran twice daily the entire time, as did Republic before them. DL just choose to force SRQ pax over ATL as KLM has stated over and over again. Its not some sleepy retirement community for snowbirds, its in the fastest growing counties in the U.S. for many years now, Manatee, Sarasota and Charlotte counties are and have been top 5/top 10 fastest growing for a few years now, if not the past decade. Its not even mostly snowbirds, its mostly transplants, and those transplants travel back to the D a lot. I am one of them and fly back more than 12 times per year. I am exactly 1 hour from SRQ, 1 hour from RSW, and if there was a nonstop id use it.
Bottom line: F9 has a prime opportunity here to swoop in with their "better than G4 service" and launch SRQ/JAX and PBI, even VPS or PNS and win



Actually DTW-SRQ is a hold over from the North Central days.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
727LOVER
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 12:54 am

klm617 wrote:
Actually DTW-SRQ is a hold over from the North Central days.


DTW was SRQ's first new route after deregulation. You can see the 1st NC flight into SRQ here in the 2nd SRQ link.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1393893
Yours truly was there on that day


About 12-13 years ago, there were actually 3 carriers flying SRQ-DTW.
Trivia....can you name them?
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 1:10 am

727LOVER wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Actually DTW-SRQ is a hold over from the North Central days.


DTW was SRQ's first new route after deregulation. You can see the 1st NC flight into SRQ here in the 2nd SRQ link.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1393893
Yours truly was there on that day


About 12-13 years ago, there were actually 3 carriers flying SRQ-DTW.
Trivia....can you name them?


Northwest.
AirTran
Spirit.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 2:10 am

Spirit never served SRQ so for the third one I'd say USA3000?
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727LOVER
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 2:31 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
Spirit never served SRQ so for the third one I'd say USA3000?



DING DING DING :bouncy:
yes...along with ORD & CLE
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon May 14, 2018 3:42 pm

Thoughts on Volaris, Interjet or Viva Aerobus starting MEX or GDL?
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 3:57 pm

WOW Air is moving their arrival and departure times for the winter. The flight will arrive at 4:45 pm and leave at 5:55 pm and operate at 4 weekly.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 4:36 pm

klm617 wrote:
WOW Air is moving their arrival and departure times for the winter. The flight will arrive at 4:45 pm and leave at 5:55 pm and operate at 4 weekly.
Appears CLE and CVG will be seasonal.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 6:40 pm

Just a thought but if Delta wanted to get better loads on it's flights and expand it's DTW-LHR capacity would they have not been better off putting the A350 on DTW-LHR rather than DTW-AMS
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 6:41 pm

flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
WOW Air is moving their arrival and departure times for the winter. The flight will arrive at 4:45 pm and leave at 5:55 pm and operate at 4 weekly.
Appears CLE and CVG will be seasonal.


Interesting actually and STL goes from 4 to 3 weekly so it appears Detroit is holding it's own.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 6:43 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Thoughts on Volaris, Interjet or Viva Aerobus starting MEX or GDL?


For this to happen I think the WCAA has to show some initiative as I believe they are keeping this opportunity open for Delta.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 6:51 pm

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Thoughts on Volaris, Interjet or Viva Aerobus starting MEX or GDL?


For this to happen I think the WCAA has to show some initiative as I believe they are keeping this opportunity open for Delta.
Don't forget though, these 3 carriers target routes that have large ethnic Mexican populations. While DTW is growing in the sense of Mexican immigrants, it might take a few more years to see some kind of result. What they could focus on is the Mexico P-O-S for Mexico originating auto passengers.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

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flymco753
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 6:52 pm

klm617 wrote:
Just a thought but if Delta wanted to get better loads on it's flights and expand it's DTW-LHR capacity would they have not been better off putting the A350 on DTW-LHR rather than DTW-AMS
The 333 would be most logical. Delta does the 333 on Fridays.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

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2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 7:03 pm

klm617 wrote:
Just a thought but if Delta wanted to get better loads on it's flights and expand it's DTW-LHR capacity would they have not been better off putting the A350 on DTW-LHR rather than DTW-AMS

You're assuming Delta wants to expand capacity on DTW-LHR.
Delta, on the other hand, thinks DTW-AMS (connecting its hub to a partner hub with enormous feed throughout Europe) is a better choice.
Past records of service show that DTW-AMS is consistently a bigger route for Delta, so they can't be faulted for upgauging there.
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NWADTWE16
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 2:36 am

Great news for WOW, because its going out pretty full from what I can tell now, but it will be sold out with the new times. People I've pointed in the direction of that flight were very turned off at the idea of leaving so late.

I think Volaris or Interjet should start 1 route and see how it plans out. Advertise in Southwest or along 94, they would quickly spread through the community.

So it was USA3000 woohoo!
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 2:53 am

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Just a thought but if Delta wanted to get better loads on it's flights and expand it's DTW-LHR capacity would they have not been better off putting the A350 on DTW-LHR rather than DTW-AMS

You're assuming Delta wants to expand capacity on DTW-LHR.
Delta, on the other hand, thinks DTW-AMS (connecting its hub to a partner hub with enormous feed throughout Europe) is a better choice.
Past records of service show that DTW-AMS is consistently a bigger route for Delta, so they can't be faulted for upgauging there.

Load factors on DL DTW-LHR are pretty mediocre as they are, I know the data has been posted here but they are pretty lackluster, and range from ~60% in winter to mid-80% in peak summer. They don't need more capacity on DTW-AMS runs at consistently higher load factors and can absorb a lot of incremental capacity, particularly during peak summer.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 7:46 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Just a thought but if Delta wanted to get better loads on it's flights and expand it's DTW-LHR capacity would they have not been better off putting the A350 on DTW-LHR rather than DTW-AMS

You're assuming Delta wants to expand capacity on DTW-LHR.
Delta, on the other hand, thinks DTW-AMS (connecting its hub to a partner hub with enormous feed throughout Europe) is a better choice.
Past records of service show that DTW-AMS is consistently a bigger route for Delta, so they can't be faulted for upgauging there.

Load factors on DL DTW-LHR are pretty mediocre as they are, I know the data has been posted here but they are pretty lackluster, and range from ~60% in winter to mid-80% in peak summer. They don't need more capacity on DTW-AMS runs at consistently higher load factors and can absorb a lot of incremental capacity, particularly during peak summer.


So here is my question if DTW-LHR has so many empty seats why are so many GRR passengers routed over ATL when there are plenty of empty seats on the DTW-LHR route.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 7:48 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Just a thought but if Delta wanted to get better loads on it's flights and expand it's DTW-LHR capacity would they have not been better off putting the A350 on DTW-LHR rather than DTW-AMS

You're assuming Delta wants to expand capacity on DTW-LHR.
Delta, on the other hand, thinks DTW-AMS (connecting its hub to a partner hub with enormous feed throughout Europe) is a better choice.
Past records of service show that DTW-AMS is consistently a bigger route for Delta, so they can't be faulted for upgauging there.


But they already have the DTW-AMS route locked up and from what everyone says here they can't seem to work DTW-LHR so why not put their best product on the route to attract new customers and see what happens
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
2Holer4Longhaul
Posts: 311
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed May 16, 2018 9:19 pm

klm617 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Just a thought but if Delta wanted to get better loads on it's flights and expand it's DTW-LHR capacity would they have not been better off putting the A350 on DTW-LHR rather than DTW-AMS

You're assuming Delta wants to expand capacity on DTW-LHR.
Delta, on the other hand, thinks DTW-AMS (connecting its hub to a partner hub with enormous feed throughout Europe) is a better choice.
Past records of service show that DTW-AMS is consistently a bigger route for Delta, so they can't be faulted for upgauging there.


But they already have the DTW-AMS route locked up and from what everyone says here they can't seem to work DTW-LHR so why not put their best product on the route to attract new customers and see what happens

Why add more seats when you can't fill the ones you already have?
klm617 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
You're assuming Delta wants to expand capacity on DTW-LHR.
Delta, on the other hand, thinks DTW-AMS (connecting its hub to a partner hub with enormous feed throughout Europe) is a better choice.
Past records of service show that DTW-AMS is consistently a bigger route for Delta, so they can't be faulted for upgauging there.

Load factors on DL DTW-LHR are pretty mediocre as they are, I know the data has been posted here but they are pretty lackluster, and range from ~60% in winter to mid-80% in peak summer. They don't need more capacity on DTW-AMS runs at consistently higher load factors and can absorb a lot of incremental capacity, particularly during peak summer.


So here is my question if DTW-LHR has so many empty seats why are so many GRR passengers routed over ATL when there are plenty of empty seats on the DTW-LHR route.

Are they routing so many GRR passengers to London via ATL? Are there that many GRR-LHR pax to begin with? Do you have any facts on your side at all?
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.

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