Detroit air service discussion - 2018

tb727 · Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:41 am

Saw the LH B744 today, then it struck me, it's going to be the only 747 on the field this summer...

BigTexFlyer · Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:00 am

Atlwarrior wrote:
jordanh wrote:
klm617 wrote:
. STR is a great example of this DTW-STR is just as sustainable as ATL-STR but being there isn't enough flow to sustain two flights at STR ATL is chosen over DTW even though STR-DTW would work just as well as ATL-STR.

Based on... what evidence?

Perhaps you have never heard of little "Mercedes Benz"; based in Stuttgart, and running its American headquarters in Atlanta. There is also another obscure car company named "Porsche"; it is a Stuttgart auto manufacturer whose U.S. headquarters is - can get it in three guesses? - in Atlanta. Can you name one company based in Stuttgart who selected Detroit for its local headquarters - and make DTW "just as sustainable at ATL-STR"?

If you don't think those corporate contracts amount to millions of dollars a year... I have some swampland in Florida to sell you...

Not true! While the headquarters moved to Atlanta,the top thinker was a Northwest executive, so that dismissing your ATL focus only theory. In fact the airline focus more on JFK for European expansion. Furthermore Delta had a huge European expansion from ATL in 2005. A lot of routes were cut and routed through Paris and Amsterdam.

Most people think this forum is:

https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress ... island.jpg

flymco753 · Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:16 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
without the assistance of the agreeably pathetic airport authority.

See, I disagree with this statement. The person behind the curtains is very well experienced and knows what they're doing. It's a common missed conception that folks have with air service teams at airports. They don't hire people that don't know what they're doing and I promise they know what they're doing. Be positive, it'll come in due time.

klm617 · Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:21 am

flymco753 wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
without the assistance of the agreeably pathetic airport authority.
See, I disagree with this statement. The person behind the curtains is very well experienced and knows what they're doing. It's a common missed conception that folks have with air service teams at airports. They don't hire people that don't know what they're doing and I promise they know what they're doing. Be positive, it'll come in due time.

The last real forward thinking thing that the WCAA put out there was the Detroit-Dubai petition and while I agree it may have not done much but at least the airport showed it's intention to grow service and show some initiative as far as enhancing air service at the airport. While they may be very knowledgeable and I don't doubt that this market needs soon very creative out of the box thinking with the parameters this market has to deal with in attracting new service and the petition showed forward type thinking say hey we are looking to expand this market. Marketing is terrible and probably nonexistent in the Detroit market and as many have said just look at the website the airport puts out there lacking very much as far as projecting a forward thinking view from the airport.

flymco753 · Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:47 pm

About 5 weeks out from the WOW inaugural. Compared to a month ago, the flights seat map is starting to become grey. Seat maps aren't usually an indication of success but from what we can see, folks are starting to buy seats with their tickets. As a frequent Spirit traveler, I almost NEVER select my seat because I don't care about paying extra for the assignment. That's how ULCC travelers that use Detroit are, an MCO seat map on Spirit can look completely empty yet the flight still leaves with 150+ bags and oversold. I've purchased my flight on WOW out of DTW as a continuation from my MCO leg on Spirit with the family, have you bought or are considering a WOW purchase?

F9's seat maps shows ISP completely open on nearly every flight. Either people aren't purchasing seats or this flight is doing so poorly, which is a shame because TTN and ILM at the time were successful. On the flip note, AUS looks like its filling up quickly.

Hopefully these flights do well.

flymco753 · Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:49 pm

flymco753 wrote:
F9's seat maps shows ISP completely open on nearly every flight.

I lied, seats are beginning to fill up, but still not even half way yet.

compensateme · Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:08 pm

BigTexFlyer wrote:
Most people think this forum is:

https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress ... island.jpg

You have at least three or four user ids that you created simply to troll this thread. Lots of "fantasy" in this thread, sure, but no more than the threads you create about your beloved DFW & ORD. Find something more productive to do with your time.

compensateme · Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:16 pm

flymco753 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
F9's seat maps shows ISP completely open on nearly every flight.
I lied, seats are beginning to fill up, but still not even half way yet.

You can't infer much from NK or F9's seat maps. (1) Many of their passengers do not pay for advanced seat assignments and (2) they display many unassigned seats as occupied to encourage more sales -- e.g. if you were booking a flight at the last minute and it displayed only a few seats available and you didn't want to risk a middle seat/your party not seating together, you're more likely to purchase than if you knew the flight was booked only half full.

flymco753 · Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:07 pm

compensateme wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
F9's seat maps shows ISP completely open on nearly every flight.
I lied, seats are beginning to fill up, but still not even half way yet.

You can't infer much from NK or F9's seat maps. (1) Many of their passengers do not pay for advanced seat assignments and (2) they display many unassigned seats as occupied to encourage more sales -- e.g. if you were booking a flight at the last minute and it displayed only a few seats available and you didn't want to risk a middle seat/your party not seating together, you're more likely to purchase than if you knew the flight was booked only half full.

I can vouch for the advanced seat assignment, unless the flight looks extremely full at check in and I feel like wanting a window seat. ULCC are interesting and I'm very interested in seeing how these new services work. TTN in its first year was horrible, I think LF's were like 40%, and it wasn't until 2015 when the route was producing 80 or 90% LF's. I can see ISP becoming the same way, but it seems F9 is quicker to withdrawal, unless they want ISP to be a long term deal like TTN.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:13 pm

In this past weekend's schedule change, DL reduced capacity into FNT starting in May:

FNT-ATL goes to 1x M88, 2x CR9 effective in May going forward
FNT-MSP remains at 3x CRJ

Only the morning departure to ATL remains an MD-88, the evening departure used to be 717/MD-88 as well.

flymco753 · Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:16 pm

I heard from someone that Kalitta will finally fly to Detroit through Atlas Air beginning in June. That has to be a long time coming.

klm617 · Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:28 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
In this past weekend's schedule change, DL reduced capacity into FNT starting in May:

FNT-ATL goes to 1x M88, 2x CR9 effective in May going forward
FNT-MSP remains at 3x CRJ

Only the morning departure to ATL remains an MD-88, the evening departure used to be 717/MD-88 as well.

I think the only way FNT works is as a low cost alternative to flying out of DTW from the Northern suburbs otherwise it's fate has be sealed really. It's really a shame that airport was headed in a really good direction but nobody is going to fly from there now that Detroit has more cost options that negate the service that Flint can offer. Somebody needs to come into Flint like AirTran did and offer low cost nonstop service to MCO, RSW, TPA and FLL on a daily basis

klm617 · Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:29 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I heard from someone that Kalitta will finally fly to Detroit through Atlas Air beginning in June. That has to be a long time coming.

What routes are they going to fly.

NWADTWE16 · Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:39 pm

im always amazed we don't have a dedicated cargo terminal with 20 or so departures a week. Atlas/Kalitta, Emirates SkyCargo, Lufthansa, Martinair, AirChina Cargo or Korean, plus some latin/south America outfit. None of those would surprise

tb727 · Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:41 pm

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I heard from someone that Kalitta will finally fly to Detroit through Atlas Air beginning in June. That has to be a long time coming.

What routes are they going to fly.

I'd imagine it will be CVG-DTW-MSP in the early morning and the opposite in the evening.

flymco753 · Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:58 pm

tb727 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I heard from someone that Kalitta will finally fly to Detroit through Atlas Air beginning in June. That has to be a long time coming.

What routes are they going to fly.

I'd imagine it will be CVG-DTW-MSP in the early morning and the opposite in the evening.

Thats what he said, and it’d be a 763 instead of a 2.

klm617 · Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:57 am

tb727 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I heard from someone that Kalitta will finally fly to Detroit through Atlas Air beginning in June. That has to be a long time coming.

What routes are they going to fly.

I'd imagine it will be CVG-DTW-MSP in the early morning and the opposite in the evening.

I thought this was operated by DHL already.

flymco753 · Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:08 am

klm617 wrote:
tb727 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

What routes are they going to fly.

I'd imagine it will be CVG-DTW-MSP in the early morning and the opposite in the evening.

I thought this was operated by DHL already.

Sorry yes it’ll be DHL operated by Kalitta.

klm617 · Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:10 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
im always amazed we don't have a dedicated cargo terminal with 20 or so departures a week. Atlas/Kalitta, Emirates SkyCargo, Lufthansa, Martinair, AirChina Cargo or Korean, plus some latin/south America outfit. None of those would surprise

I would say LH, CV and KE cargo are certainly doable. The airport is not pursuing this type of business I always think it is funny the talk about this big trade zone they are trying to create without a single dedicated bulk cargo flight to one of the largest manufacturing state in the nation the airport is content with allowing ORD to steal all that revenue.

klm617 · Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:10 am

flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
tb727 wrote:

I'd imagine it will be CVG-DTW-MSP in the early morning and the opposite in the evening.

I thought this was operated by DHL already.
Sorry yes it’ll be DHL operated by Kalitta.

So really nothing new just a change in vendor.

compensateme · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:00 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
In this past weekend's schedule change, DL reduced capacity into FNT starting in May:

FNT-ATL goes to 1x M88, 2x CR9 effective in May going forward
FNT-MSP remains at 3x CRJ

Only the morning departure to ATL remains an MD-88, the evening departure used to be 717/MD-88 as well.

The future downgauging of FNT happened in January, not long after WN announced its intentions to withdraw from the market. I posted about it here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382387&p=20097149#p20097149

Unsurprisingly, the most recent update extends the change indefinitely. FNT's era of Michigan's lowest cost airport to travel from is over; AA, DL & UA stopped matching WN's walk-up fares in January.

compensateme · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:05 am

klm617 wrote:
I think the only way FNT works is as a low cost alternative to flying out of DTW from the Northern suburbs otherwise it's fate has be sealed really. It's really a shame that airport was headed in a really good direction but nobody is going to fly from there now that Detroit has more cost options that negate the service that Flint can offer. Somebody needs to come into Flint like AirTran did and offer low cost nonstop service to MCO, RSW, TPA and FLL on a daily basis

G6 filled the void to MCO (via SFB) and TPA (via PIE) and has largely struggled, slashing frequency YOY. And don't bother to argue the service failed because of frequency - when you're primarily serving Disney World vacationers, you're going to attract the lion's share of the market via weekend departures. Only business/convention and price sensitive passengers will consider Tuesday. And it's tough to compete with NK's $29 fares.

michman · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:23 am

compensateme wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
In this past weekend's schedule change, DL reduced capacity into FNT starting in May:

FNT-ATL goes to 1x M88, 2x CR9 effective in May going forward
FNT-MSP remains at 3x CRJ

Only the morning departure to ATL remains an MD-88, the evening departure used to be 717/MD-88 as well.

The future downgauging of FNT happened in January, not long after WN announced its intentions to withdraw from the market. I posted about it here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382387&p=20097149#p20097149

Unsurprisingly, the most recent update extends the change indefinitely. FNT's era of Michigan's lowest cost airport to travel from is over; AA, DL & UA stopped matching WN's walk-up fares in January.

It looks to me like AA/UA at least are matching WN's $212 walk-up and $74 sale fare to CHI until mid-June when WN goes away. Legacies often don't match WN on routes where WN requires a connection.

flymco753 · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:32 am

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

I thought this was operated by DHL already.
Sorry yes it’ll be DHL operated by Kalitta.

So really nothing new just a change in vendor.

Also an upgauge in aircraft size. A lot of freight going to Germany packs both Lufty and Delta planes.

klm617 · Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:47 am

compensateme wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I think the only way FNT works is as a low cost alternative to flying out of DTW from the Northern suburbs otherwise it's fate has be sealed really. It's really a shame that airport was headed in a really good direction but nobody is going to fly from there now that Detroit has more cost options that negate the service that Flint can offer. Somebody needs to come into Flint like AirTran did and offer low cost nonstop service to MCO, RSW, TPA and FLL on a daily basis

G6 filled the void to MCO (via SFB) and TPA (via PIE) and has largely struggled, slashing frequency YOY. And don't bother to argue the service failed because of frequency - when you're primarily serving Disney World vacationers, you're going to attract the lion's share of the market via weekend departures. Only business/convention and price sensitive passengers will consider Tuesday. And it's tough to compete with NK's $29 fares.

Yes but people going to Disney don't want to fly to SFB they want to go to MCO where there is convenient service to get them there. As far as weekends that's no true of your going for 4 days you need middle of the week departure not to mention AirTran ran MCO daily consistently so travels are looking for flexibility not restricted travel day.

flymco753 · Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:29 pm

klm617 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I think the only way FNT works is as a low cost alternative to flying out of DTW from the Northern suburbs otherwise it's fate has be sealed really. It's really a shame that airport was headed in a really good direction but nobody is going to fly from there now that Detroit has more cost options that negate the service that Flint can offer. Somebody needs to come into Flint like AirTran did and offer low cost nonstop service to MCO, RSW, TPA and FLL on a daily basis

G6 filled the void to MCO (via SFB) and TPA (via PIE) and has largely struggled, slashing frequency YOY. And don't bother to argue the service failed because of frequency - when you're primarily serving Disney World vacationers, you're going to attract the lion's share of the market via weekend departures. Only business/convention and price sensitive passengers will consider Tuesday. And it's tough to compete with NK's $29 fares.

Yes but people going to Disney don't want to fly to SFB they want to go to MCO where there is convenient service to get them there. As far as weekends that's no true of your going for 4 days you need middle of the week departure not to mention AirTran ran MCO daily consistently so travels are looking for flexibility not restricted travel day.

With 16 Saturday flights and 14 regular weekly scheduled flights to MCO, there's no way FNT-MCO would succeed. Spirit has this route on 4x daily or 28 weekly flights with 1x A321 1x A32S and 2x A319, and they're filling planes with both people and their assets. Spirit has the Detroit market on a lockdown which is great. For people rooting for Frontier or Southwest, this is why they don't expand in Detroit. Spirit has become very protective against all carriers. They're kind of like the young brother who everyone has picked on, but the parents warned that one day they will be able to fight back. Not to mention, they've been big contributors to DTW's growth, I think if they add MBJ and PBI on top of what is already added and increased frequencies on, they'll be at least 2% growth.

flymco753 · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:51 pm

Largest unserved markets from DTW in order (City and Average PDEW):
-San Jose, California 180
-Sacramento, California 148
-El Paso, Texas 105
-Tuscon, Arizona 95
-Reno, Nevada 85

Looking at growth trends, I analyze that Boise will break 65 passengers a day by 2020, ABQ could average nearly 100, and if Delta doesn't add SJC and SMF by 2020 they both have the potential of hitting 200 each day. The CS100 would be the perfect aircraft to do ABQ and RNO, while ELP and TUS should be an A319. SJC should be a 738 and SMF an A320.

I was surprised to see how many passengers flew between Detroit-Indianapolis and Pittsburgh even though they're close. I'm learning more about Detroit each day so I can become more knowledgeable about everywhere.

klm617 · Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:14 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Largest unserved markets from DTW in order (City and Average PDEW):
-San Jose, California 180
-Sacramento, California 148
-El Paso, Texas 105
-Tuscon, Arizona 95
-Reno, Nevada 85

Looking at growth trends, I analyze that Boise will break 65 passengers a day by 2020, ABQ could average nearly 100, and if Delta doesn't add SJC and SMF by 2020 they both have the potential of hitting 200 each day. The CS100 would be the perfect aircraft to do ABQ and RNO, while ELP and TUS should be an A319. SJC should be a 738 and SMF an A320.

I was surprised to see how many passengers flew between Detroit-Indianapolis and Pittsburgh even though they're close. I'm learning more about Detroit each day so I can become more knowledgeable about everywhere.

It's laughable that with those kinds of number that there isn't one flight a day between the top 2 and Detroit. Hello Spirit can you see this perhaps you can address Detroit's needs if Delta is not willing to.

flymco753 · Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:50 pm

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Largest unserved markets from DTW in order (City and Average PDEW):
-San Jose, California 180
-Sacramento, California 148
-El Paso, Texas 105
-Tuscon, Arizona 95
-Reno, Nevada 85

Looking at growth trends, I analyze that Boise will break 65 passengers a day by 2020, ABQ could average nearly 100, and if Delta doesn't add SJC and SMF by 2020 they both have the potential of hitting 200 each day. The CS100 would be the perfect aircraft to do ABQ and RNO, while ELP and TUS should be an A319. SJC should be a 738 and SMF an A320.

I was surprised to see how many passengers flew between Detroit-Indianapolis and Pittsburgh even though they're close. I'm learning more about Detroit each day so I can become more knowledgeable about everywhere.

It's laughable that with those kinds of number that there isn't one flight a day between the top 2 and Detroit. Hello Spirit can you see this perhaps you can address Detroit's needs if Delta is not willing to.

I'm unsure of SMF's operating costs, but I already wonder why it shouldn't be considered. Same with SLC, I'm actually quite surprised they're not there already. Markets like ELP, TUS, RNO, etc., are mid-sized markets, something Spirit is tapping into. What needs to be taken into consideration though is DTW-ELP is highly auto so you want to target Delta, where Reno is leisure. For all of the above markets though, Delta seems like the most sense, especially SJC, and there's no reason they couldn't do it in 2018.

I also made a mistake, those markets are all lower 48 markets, Anchorage is technically DTW's 3rd largest market and Honolulu is a close 4th.

klm617 · Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:23 am

flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Largest unserved markets from DTW in order (City and Average PDEW):
-San Jose, California 180
-Sacramento, California 148
-El Paso, Texas 105
-Tuscon, Arizona 95
-Reno, Nevada 85

Looking at growth trends, I analyze that Boise will break 65 passengers a day by 2020, ABQ could average nearly 100, and if Delta doesn't add SJC and SMF by 2020 they both have the potential of hitting 200 each day. The CS100 would be the perfect aircraft to do ABQ and RNO, while ELP and TUS should be an A319. SJC should be a 738 and SMF an A320.

I was surprised to see how many passengers flew between Detroit-Indianapolis and Pittsburgh even though they're close. I'm learning more about Detroit each day so I can become more knowledgeable about everywhere.

It's laughable that with those kinds of number that there isn't one flight a day between the top 2 and Detroit. Hello Spirit can you see this perhaps you can address Detroit's needs if Delta is not willing to.
I'm unsure of SMF's operating costs, but I already wonder why it shouldn't be considered. Same with SLC, I'm actually quite surprised they're not there already. Markets like ELP, TUS, RNO, etc., are mid-sized markets, something Spirit is tapping into. What needs to be taken into consideration though is DTW-ELP is highly auto so you want to target Delta, where Reno is leisure. For all of the above markets though, Delta seems like the most sense, especially SJC, and there's no reason they couldn't do it in 2018.

I also made a mistake, those markets are all lower 48 markets, Anchorage is technically DTW's 3rd largest market and Honolulu is a close 4th.

And that's what's really irritating for a hub airport add in the connections these flights would generate and all those are viable markets the Delta for some reason feels those passengers should gave to make a connection. I looked and ATL-SMF has 3 nonstop one of those could easily be moved to DTW to handle all the east west traffic and let ATL handle the rest with 2 nonstop flights but no they insist on moving the east west traffic over ATL

NWADTWE16 · Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:05 am

agreed 100%

compensateme · Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:46 am

klm617 wrote:
And that's what's really irritating for a hub airport add in the connections these flights would generate and all those are viable markets the Delta for some reason feels those passengers should gave to make a connection. I looked and ATL-SMF has 3 nonstop one of those could easily be moved to DTW to handle all the east west traffic and let ATL handle the rest with 2 nonstop flights but no they insist on moving the east west traffic over ATL

LOL, please. DL only recently added summer DTW/CUN service during the week, while operating 6-8 from ATL in the prior years. Heck, even UA managed service from CLE until it pulled the plug on the hub...

flymco753 · Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:53 am

compensateme wrote:
klm617 wrote:
And that's what's really irritating for a hub airport add in the connections these flights would generate and all those are viable markets the Delta for some reason feels those passengers should gave to make a connection. I looked and ATL-SMF has 3 nonstop one of those could easily be moved to DTW to handle all the east west traffic and let ATL handle the rest with 2 nonstop flights but no they insist on moving the east west traffic over ATL

LOL, please. DL only recently added summer DTW/CUN service during the week, while operating 6-8 from ATL in the prior years. Heck, even UA managed service from CLE until it pulled the plug on the hub...

DL won’t move anything from poor ole ATL, I’m sure it broke their heart to add SNA, only to realize the flight is perfoming very well.

KarlB737 · Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:19 pm

Courtesy: MLive

Envoy Air To Lay Off 114 Employees At Detroit Metro Airport

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2018/03/envoy_air_to_lay_off_114_emplo.html

compensateme · Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:11 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
Courtesy: MLive

Envoy Air To Lay Off 114 Employees At Detroit Metro Airport

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2018/03/envoy_air_to_lay_off_114_emplo.html

Wow, it was less than two years ago AA outsourced DTW to Envoy. Piedmont has held several career fairs recently, so I assume that's the replacement. If if you have a Bachelor's degree majoring in business,you can earn up to $13/hour

.

flymco753 · Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:29 pm

compensateme wrote:
KarlB737 wrote:
Courtesy: MLive

Envoy Air To Lay Off 114 Employees At Detroit Metro Airport

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2018/03/envoy_air_to_lay_off_114_emplo.html

Wow, it was less than two years ago AA outsourced DTW to Envoy. Piedmont has held several career fairs recently, so I assume that's the replacement. If if you have a Bachelor's degree majoring in business,you can earn up to $13/hour .

Thats why I choose to take my soon to be freshly printed Aviation Business degree somewhere that matters! Thanks for the heads up.

flymco753 · Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:43 pm

So Delta has the A321 on DTW-GRR this summer, that’s pretty cool.

N592NW · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:10 am

flymco753 wrote:
So Delta has the A321 on DTW-GRR this summer, that’s pretty cool.

Looks like it's just replacing the 757 that RON's in GRR. Good to see a larger aircraft on this flight as the route moves from 6 to 7 daily.

klm617 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:15 am

N592NW wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
So Delta has the A321 on DTW-GRR this summer, that’s pretty cool.

Looks like it's just replacing the 757 that RON's in GRR. I'm not complaining abut the drop of 9 seats though. More people fly from GRR-ATL than GRR-DTW, and the ATL route has less capacity.

So help me understand why those people are all diverted away from making their connections at Detroit.

N592NW · Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:21 am

So help me understand why those people are all diverted away from making their connections at Detroit.

I just looked and load factors seem to be a lot better to ATL than DTW. DL absolutely seems committed to the DTW route as they've increased from 6 daily to 7 daily this summer. The ATL route actually has more capacity now for December 2017 too.

NWADTWE16 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:06 am

where did you look at load factors? GRR-DTW and the return has always been packed every flight all day, every day since before I started with NW in 96. I'd be surprised if those people are gunning for ATL and what routes are making them do that? perhaps those routes are needed from DTW. Its a large amount of people from GRR

flymco753 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:49 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
where did you look at load factors? GRR-DTW and the return has always been packed every flight all day, every day since before I started with NW in 96. I'd be surprised if those people are gunning for ATL and what routes are making them do that? perhaps those routes are needed from DTW. Its a large amount of people from GRR

DL is pushing a ton of GRR connections via ATL with the exception of Northeast travel. Everything from GRR-ATL-LHR to GRR-ATL-LAX are all going through Atlanta per the trend.

klm617 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:47 pm

flymco753 wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
where did you look at load factors? GRR-DTW and the return has always been packed every flight all day, every day since before I started with NW in 96. I'd be surprised if those people are gunning for ATL and what routes are making them do that? perhaps those routes are needed from DTW. Its a large amount of people from GRR
DL is pushing a ton of GRR connections via ATL with the exception of Northeast travel. Everything from GRR-ATL-LHR to GRR-ATL-LAX are all going through Atlanta per the trend.

It's amazing how uninformed travelers are these days. They have connections over ORD, MDW and DTW but yet allow themselves to be routed over ATL that is just crazy in my mind. It would be more cost and time effective to drive to ORD for a nonstop than to accept a connection over ATL

NWADTWE16 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:43 pm

I wonder how many of them claim they are environmentally conscious, and shop at whole foods etc, and then take a ridiculous routing like that (facepalm)

ikolkyo · Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:08 pm

Air France begins 787-9 service to DTW today.
https://fr24.com/AFR378/10d6050a

DTWorld · Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:16 pm

https://www.flightradar24.com/AFR378/10d6050a

F-HRBB is currently en route as the inaugural AF 789 service to DTW. Current ETA is 18:23. I would love to see the 787 be a regular here.

flymco753 · Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:26 pm

DTWorld wrote:
https://www.flightradar24.com/AFR378/10d6050a

F-HRBB is currently en route as the inaugural AF 789 service to DTW. Current ETA is 18:23. I would love to see the 787 be a regular here.

RJ flies it in twice every week. There will be 2 787's on property at the same time today.

flymco753 · Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:39 pm

Some Spirit news, DTW-DEN has been upgraded to the A321 this June and will continue into schedules end. I also feel confident that MBJ and PBI will be added this winter, BDL and PHX next Spring.

DTWorld · Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:47 pm

flymco753 wrote:
DTWorld wrote:
https://www.flightradar24.com/AFR378/10d6050a

F-HRBB is currently en route as the inaugural AF 789 service to DTW. Current ETA is 18:23. I would love to see the 787 be a regular here.
RJ flies it in twice every week. There will be 2 787's on property at the same time today.

True, but again RJ is only 2x weekly versus the AF flight arriving/departing on a daily basis. Also, it's highly unlikely I will ever set foot in Jordan whereas I'm far more likely to go through CDG. For as much as I can't stand that airport over AMS, I'd be willing to suffer a bit if it meant getting a 787 ride in and/or out of my home airport.

727NWA · Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:44 pm

Bit of an odd question but I didn't think it warranted it's own thread.

Does anyone have pictures of the inside of the old NW concourses in the Davey and Smith terminals or any good aerial images of it? Found a few aerials but interior pictures seem exceedingly hard to find.

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