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klm617 wrote:BenflysDTW wrote:
The more growth in passenger numbers we see at DTW the better... I think the growth rates will be much better next year than this year.
I agree with that. As more airlines encroach on Delta's market share the more they will add capacity. Expect to see new international flight being announced next year. Her is something I don't understand with DTW-PDX being only 1 daily all these years and AS struggling to keep this route year round why would NK chose DTW-PDX where there are so many more better opportunities out there other than a route that struggles to be operated year round on a daily basis. When I see something like that it kind of invalidates the fact of what will work and what won't based on the data and hard numbers that are out there because clearly the O/D between DTW and PDX doesn't justify three or four daily flights let alone by three different carriers there are markets that have zero competition on them out of Detroit that are bigger.
BenflysDTW wrote:3.5 flights/day? Delta gutted there plans for 1+ flights a day when AS cut Jan-Mar Service!
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:BenflysDTW wrote:3.5 flights/day? Delta gutted there plans for 1+ flights a day when AS cut Jan-Mar Service!
I haven't done full research, but I think there is seasonal variation in the route.
My point (that Airline analysts know better than a.nutters) stands.
BenflysDTW wrote:I think that DL is doing 1 flight a day during the summer season. Does anyone know when n674us is taking off tomorrow? I have a day off work and I want to catch it.
flymco753 wrote:Here’s that EI article; https://www.irishcentral.com/news/aer-l ... es-flights
flymco753 wrote:Here’s that EI article; https://www.irishcentral.com/news/aer-l ... es-flights
kavok wrote:I assume you mean EI notflymco753 wrote:Here’s that EI article; https://www.irishcentral.com/news/aer-l ... es-flights
Realistically, I only see two possible European additions to DTW right now (beyond frequency changes to existing markets):
1- I view EI DTW-DUB as the most likely TATL addition to DTW.
2- The second most likely addition I could see would be DL serving DTW-DUB in response.
DTW-MAN/WAW/DUS/etc. is not going to happen. The market is not there to fill the front cabin on those routes. Sorry, but the big hole in the DTW market is the TATL LCC. WOW will help some, but IE would be a good fit for that reason (even though IE is not full fledged LCC).
LH is not going to add MUC. They would go double daily on DTW-FRA before adding MUC. LH makes a good portion of their profit on the DTW route connecting pax in FRA onto India. If they are going to add a second flight, it will be to FRA to better flow the India connections.
BA is also not coming back, as even DL has struggled making the second LHR flight work from DTW. If IAG adds DTW, it will be with IE.
klm617 wrote:2Holer4Longhaul wrote:BenflysDTW wrote:3.5 flights/day? Delta gutted there plans for 1+ flights a day when AS cut Jan-Mar Service!
I haven't done full research, but I think there is seasonal variation in the route.
My point (that Airline analysts know better than a.nutters) stands.
Exactly so MAN, DUB, WAW and DXB might be doable from DTW so one should never say never. If 3 carriers feel they can coexist on DTW-PDX then the possibilities are endless for DTW
flymco753 wrote:kavok wrote:I assume you mean EI notflymco753 wrote:Here’s that EI article; https://www.irishcentral.com/news/aer-l ... es-flights
Realistically, I only see two possible European additions to DTW right now (beyond frequency changes to existing markets):
1- I view EI DTW-DUB as the most likely TATL addition to DTW.
2- The second most likely addition I could see would be DL serving DTW-DUB in response.
DTW-MAN/WAW/DUS/etc. is not going to happen. The market is not there to fill the front cabin on those routes. Sorry, but the big hole in the DTW market is the TATL LCC. WOW will help some, but IE would be a good fit for that reason (even though IE is not full fledged LCC).
LH is not going to add MUC. They would go double daily on DTW-FRA before adding MUC. LH makes a good portion of their profit on the DTW route connecting pax in FRA onto India. If they are going to add a second flight, it will be to FRA to better flow the India connections.
BA is also not coming back, as even DL has struggled making the second LHR flight work from DTW. If IAG adds DTW, it will be with IE.
IE? What do you think of BCN? Isn’t it slightly larger than DUB by a hair? I’m interested to see if someone can do BCN even though we all know DL won’t do Spain from DTW.
kavok wrote:flymco753 wrote:Here’s that EI article; https://www.irishcentral.com/news/aer-l ... es-flights
Realistically, I only see two possible European additions to DTW right now (beyond frequency changes to existing markets):
1- I view EI DTW-DUB as the most likely TATL addition to DTW.
2- The second most likely addition I could see would be DL serving DTW-DUB in response.
DTW-MAN/WAW/DUS/etc. is not going to happen. The market is not there to fill the front cabin on those routes. Sorry, but the big hole in the DTW market is the TATL LCC. WOW will help some, but IE would be a good fit for that reason (even though IE is not full fledged LCC).
LH is not going to add MUC. They would go double daily on DTW-FRA before adding MUC. LH makes a good portion of their profit on the DTW route connecting pax in FRA onto India. If they are going to add a second flight, it will be to FRA to better flow the India connections.
BA is also not coming back, as even DL has struggled making the second LHR flight work from DTW. If IAG adds DTW, it will be with IE.
flymco753 wrote:DL is very skiddish of doing previously scheduled routes that they’ve ended, reason why DTW-HKG sand SMF might be harder than numbers, it’ll most likely need a cash incentive.
klm617 wrote:2Holer4Longhaul wrote:BenflysDTW wrote:3.5 flights/day? Delta gutted there plans for 1+ flights a day when AS cut Jan-Mar Service!
I haven't done full research, but I think there is seasonal variation in the route.
My point (that Airline analysts know better than a.nutters) stands.
Exactly so MAN, DUB, WAW and DXB might be doable from DTW so one should never say never. If 3 carriers feel they can coexist on DTW-PDX then the possibilities are endless for DTW
klm617 wrote:2Holer4Longhaul wrote:BenflysDTW wrote:3.5 flights/day? Delta gutted there plans for 1+ flights a day when AS cut Jan-Mar Service!
I haven't done full research, but I think there is seasonal variation in the route.
My point (that Airline analysts know better than a.nutters) stands.
Exactly so MAN, DUB, WAW and DXB might be doable from DTW so one should never say never. If 3 carriers feel they can coexist on DTW-PDX then the possibilities are endless for DTW
flymco753 wrote:DTW-PDX might have a stimulated market we don’t know about, plus it’s better use of aircraft. International travel requires more strategic aircraft planning and is a greater risk than domestic.
flymco753 wrote:DTW-PDX might have a stimulated market we don’t know about, plus it’s better use of aircraft. International travel requires more strategic aircraft planning and is a greater risk than domestic.
NWADTWE16 wrote:EI certainly seems the perfect candidate for year round service, providing an above LCC service using a beautiful new and easy connecting terminal in a city and country that's one of the hottest for tourism on the planet right now. The fact that pre clearance is also available just is icing on an already beautiful cake.
I submit that Southern Europe (Spain, Portugal and the Islands) are where money could be make, summer seasonal. So either DY (BCN) TP (LIS) Or Level seem logical to me. They would be stimulating demand, which is something people always fail to consider here.
Another thing I always notice is left out, is the amount of connections DL can swing thru to DTW INTL flights. When the market calls for 150PDEW, that O&D but blossoms in many markets when you add 300 connecting flights. With that reasoning I see DTW-ICN on KE and DTW-HKG 5 weekly on DL by 2019.
And for the record B6 DTW-MCO and DTW-JFK as will F9 DTW-AUS, DTW-TPA and a spring Caribbean I believe are in short order.
LAXdude1023 wrote:klm617 wrote:2Holer4Longhaul wrote:I haven't done full research, but I think there is seasonal variation in the route.
My point (that Airline analysts know better than a.nutters) stands.
Exactly so MAN, DUB, WAW and DXB might be doable from DTW so one should never say never. If 3 carriers feel they can coexist on DTW-PDX then the possibilities are endless for DTW
Groan...you do realize that statements like this are the reason people dont take Detroit posters seriously on this forum anymore??? You are SEVERELY overestimating Detroit's importance as a hub and a local market.
flymco753 wrote:DTW-PDX might have a stimulated market we don’t know about, plus it’s better use of aircraft. International travel requires more strategic aircraft planning and is a greater risk than domestic.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:At most, DL would do a Sat-only seasonal DTW-SJO flight on peak Saturdays from mid-Feb through early-April.
The route would heavily have to rely upon DTW O&D though since the stage length of the flights do to a out-and-back turn on the same aircraft doesn't lend itself to feeding connections in DTW. ATL is more optimal from a network perspective from aircraft/crew routing and for connections since with ~4 hour block times from ATL, it can depart mid-morning /arrive in SJO early-afternoon and turn back to ATL to arrive in time to feed the evening connecting banks.
A DTW-SJO flight would be ~5.5 hour block time and would have to depart by 7am in turn the plane back in time to arrive early enough in the evening to hit the 8pm departure bank. 7am is too early to catch any meaningful inbound connections except for a handful intra-Michigan cities that have really early morning arrivals, but many of those don't operate in the winter and/or on weekends. So, they could only time an SJO flight to align with connecting banks in DTW on one direction, not both. If they departed closer to 9am, they wouldn't get a plane back into DTW until after 9pm and miss most connecting opportunities.
Hence, the flights that DL flies from DTW to sun destinations in the Caribbean, Mexico, and Central America have to stand alone on DTW-originating traffic.
LAXdude1023 wrote:...
Groan...you do realize that statements like this are the reason people dont take Detroit posters seriously on this forum anymore??? You are SEVERELY overestimating Detroit's importance as a hub and a local market.
flymco753 wrote:Was looking at some LF's and WN is running 93% LF's to MCO, why don't they extend this flight?
klm617 wrote:I actually disagree, I think growth will be slow this year only because Detroit has reached its potential for 2018. I think 2018 is going to be the year of data, data in which Airlines can use to build off of in 2019 for 2019 adds. I still am firm believeng that DTW-PUJ or MBJ and a seasonal PBI is going to happen with NK for this winter, that PBI flight will be a 319 to go to BDL next summer. As for the MBJ or PUJ frame, I’m not sure yet.BenflysDTW wrote:
The more growth in passenger numbers we see at DTW the better... I think the growth rates will be much better next year than this year.
I agree with that. As more airlines encroach on Delta's market share the more they will add capacity. Expect to see new international flight being announced next year. Her is something I don't understand with DTW-PDX being only 1 daily all these years and AS struggling to keep this route year round why would NK chose DTW-PDX where there are so many more better opportunities out there other than a route that struggles to be operated year round on a daily basis. When I see something like that it kind of invalidates the fact of what will work and what won't based on the data and hard numbers that are out there because clearly the O/D between DTW and PDX doesn't justify three or four daily flights let alone by three different carriers there are markets that have zero competition on them out of Detroit that are bigger.
compensateme wrote:I remember flying from Orlando to Detroit to see my grandparents and taking a DC-10 early in the morning to Detroit and late in the evening to MCO, we even were on a swap on a 747-200... boy have times changed.flymco753 wrote:Was looking at some LF's and WN is running 93% LF's to MCO, why don't they extend this flight?
LF doesn’t tell the whole story; F9, for example, had similar LF but largely abandoned MCO for MIA.
You have to consider that WN operates MCO only ~8 times annually. Not only do those 8 dates represent amongst the highest demand to MCO, they also represent dates with little alternative use for the aircraft (winter Saturday’s is about as slow as it gets).
Also, consider that while WN’s MCO flights are pricing near their highest point in March, you can still get $122 tickets in February and April. NK is $75-100 most dates, including Satudays in March. Even if you add $50 for a bag, seat assignment and a soda... it’s $125-$175. No wonder F9 wanted out!
MCO is amongst the cheapest places you can fly to from DTW. There’s a significant number of people who work in Metro Detroit but live in Orlando, because of the high wages offered here vs. Florida (especially those in “contract” positions who thus avoid state income taxes). NW often in the late 1990s/2000s use to fly a DC10 (and later 753) on the 5am MCO-DTW flight to serve this crowd.
TryToFlySomeday wrote:LAXdude1023 wrote:klm617 wrote:
Exactly so MAN, DUB, WAW and DXB might be doable from DTW so one should never say never. If 3 carriers feel they can coexist on DTW-PDX then the possibilities are endless for DTW
Groan...you do realize that statements like this are the reason people dont take Detroit posters seriously on this forum anymore??? You are SEVERELY overestimating Detroit's importance as a hub and a local market.
Ikr. I love Detroit as a suburban metropolis, and Michigan as a whole. But klm617 is filled with nonsense.
Whatever can come to DTW will come, but only if it’s predicted to be profitable. TK to IST and DL to HKG is all I can see internationally for now. Maybe in 12 years we’ll see that DTW will reach the level ORD and YYZ is at. But not anytime earlier than 2030
kitplane01 wrote:Plenty of open gates, there should be a terminal expansion coming soon at the D Concourse, at that point I think it'll give new entrants more room to have a gate or 2 to themselves.What is the current gate situation at Detroit? Could a new entrant find gate space at Detroit? I don't recall seeing any empty gates.
william wrote:Remember when SWA started service at a secondary Detroit airport? I forgot the name, Does it still have commercial service? Can imagine an airline like Allegiant setting up shop there.
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:TryToFlySomeday wrote:LAXdude1023 wrote:
Groan...you do realize that statements like this are the reason people dont take Detroit posters seriously on this forum anymore??? You are SEVERELY overestimating Detroit's importance as a hub and a local market.
Ikr. I love Detroit as a suburban metropolis, and Michigan as a whole. But klm617 is filled with nonsense.
Whatever can come to DTW will come, but only if it’s predicted to be profitable. TK to IST and DL to HKG is all I can see internationally for now. Maybe in 12 years we’ll see that DTW will reach the level ORD and YYZ is at. But not anytime earlier than 2030
TK is actually one of the few exceptions, because it is strangely invulnerable to losses.
flymco753 wrote:kitplane01 wrote:Plenty of open gates, there should be a terminal expansion coming soon at the D Concourse, at that point I think it'll give new entrants more room to have a gate or 2 to themselves.What is the current gate situation at Detroit? Could a new entrant find gate space at Detroit? I don't recall seeing any empty gates.
On top of that, I think when the new gates are added, NK might take a few, I would hope they consolidate themselves at the north end of the terminal and push AA down to the mid section. Although I'd like to see a Concourse E extension from the south end and add 5 gates, all for NK.
kitplane01 wrote:flymco753 wrote:kitplane01 wrote:Plenty of open gates, there should be a terminal expansion coming soon at the D Concourse, at that point I think it'll give new entrants more room to have a gate or 2 to themselves.What is the current gate situation at Detroit? Could a new entrant find gate space at Detroit? I don't recall seeing any empty gates.
On top of that, I think when the new gates are added, NK might take a few, I would hope they consolidate themselves at the north end of the terminal and push AA down to the mid section. Although I'd like to see a Concourse E extension from the south end and add 5 gates, all for NK.
I'm sorry but minor sure I understood. Does this mean there will be open gate after the terminal expansion, or that there are open gates and will be even more after the terminal expansion?