What is the rational for serving DTW-MAN? I get that there was an article stating it was a possibility, but that seems to be it. Even ORD doesn't have MAN service and if VS/DL struggle to make DTW-LHR 2x/day, I am skeptical that MAN would work on either carrier. Is there local/business ties that would justify the route?

cvgComair wrote:

What is the rational for serving DTW-MAN? I get that there was an article stating it was a possibility, but that seems to be it. Even ORD doesn't have MAN service and if VS/DL struggle to make DTW-LHR 2x/day, I am skeptical that MAN would work on either carrier. Is there local/business ties that would justify the route?

We can't say that DL/VS struggled to make 2 daily work. Just look at Jacksonville and how anyone could have said the same thing but yet NK jumps on the route and by some miracle DTW-JAX goes to be able to support 2 MD90 flights from a mere 76 seat RJ. DTW-LHR was a market that was choked off by Delta just like Jacksonville was. As far as DTW-MAN being viable when who would have thunk that DTW-HNL was on Delta's radar . Many would argue that it was to low yielding and that MSP-HNL was enough to carry the east coast traffic to HNL but yet here we are with a 5 weekly DTW-HNL flight. Myself I would have thought that DTW-ANC was more viable on a 757. Point being most anything is viable given an opportunity.

DL formally announcing 2x daily DTW-LHR indicates that pressure from WOW and natural growth in the market as the region recovers has compelled DL to operate LHR flows over DTW differently than it was in previous years when it owned the market. They certainly have the passenger volume to make 2x flights work from DTW—or, for that matter, BOS, MSP, wherever really.

The VS experiment was always a weird one. Not to beat a dead horse, but in retrospect, what was the motivation? Did they think the VS brand would catch and create market volume vs. the Delta brand?

reasonable wrote:

DL formally announcing 2x daily DTW-LHR indicates that pressure from WOW and natural growth in the market as the region recovers has compelled DL to operate LHR flows over DTW differently than it was in previous years when it owned the market. They certainly have the passenger volume to make 2x flights work from DTW—or, for that matter, BOS, MSP, wherever really.

The VS experiment was always a weird one. Not to beat a dead horse, but in retrospect, what was the motivation? Did they think the VS brand would catch and create market volume vs. the Delta brand?

VS/DL is metal neutral IIRC. So I would venture to guess that VS had excess TATL capacity so they ended up using a VS aircraft for the flight.

klm617 wrote:

As far as DTW-MAN being viable when who would have thunk that DTW-HNL was on Delta's radar . Many would argue that it was to low yielding and that MSP-HNL was enough to carry the east coast traffic to HNL but yet here we are with a 5 weekly DTW-HNL flight. Myself I would have thought that DTW-ANC was more viable on a 757. Point being most anything is viable given an opportunity.

Let's be clear - DL's DTWHNL flight was only just announced last month and won't begin until late June. We have no clue whether or not the service will be viable long-term, and you can bet DL doesn't even yet know themselves. Just because something is launched does not mean it's viable.

klm617 wrote:

gnakra80 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Yes but MAN would have been better for Detroit as it would have give us more global exposure and an international flight always generates more revenue for the airport.

WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS NONSENSE??? Have you ever thought about seeing a therapist to deal with your insecurities about DTW?

Funny how all the self proclaimed intellects on this forum always find a way to make their comments in a condescending way yet I always respond respectfully to every one even when I am being attacked. Perhaps it's you and all the others who need anger management therapy. I'm just here as a cheerleader for my market when everyone is just trying to sweep Detroit under the rug and stop the negative perception about what Detroit and the surrounding area is all about.

I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW, however, it's one thing to get lost in pipe dreams and making claims off of what you want. You propose in here, and in other forums things that just aren't true, and it's incredibly frustrating as any comment any one of us makes on another thread about potential expansion at DTW, gets shot down because you have tarnished the integrity of this airport.

gnakra80 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

gnakra80 wrote:

WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS NONSENSE??? Have you ever thought about seeing a therapist to deal with your insecurities about DTW?

Funny how all the self proclaimed intellects on this forum always find a way to make their comments in a condescending way yet I always respond respectfully to every one even when I am being attacked. Perhaps it's you and all the others who need anger management therapy. I'm just here as a cheerleader for my market when everyone is just trying to sweep Detroit under the rug and stop the negative perception about what Detroit and the surrounding area is all about.

I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW, however, it's one thing to get lost in pipe dreams and making claims off of what you want. You propose in here, and in other forums things that just aren't true, and it's incredibly frustrating as any comment any one of us makes on another thread about potential expansion at DTW, gets shot down because you have tarnished the integrity of this airport.

First of all let me say this before I got on here no one ever talked about Detroit. Every thread had about 15 replies and it was dead no one ever wanted to talk about Detroit and new service or growth. I am humbled by the fact that you think that one simple guy can poison the minds of all the a.net members into thinking that his view is how all people that back Detroit service think. That would indicate that the problem lies not with me but with the ego of the other members of this forum because let's face it why attack the comment of a person who knows nothing about how the airline industry works or about the Detroit market itself but perhaps maybe I am touching a nerve that is more closer to the truth than what others would want you to believe. You are free to post about growth at Detroit but again I see you have only made 7 posts in 5 months so your comment "I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW" does not ring true and you only comments about the Detroit market were negative in context. If you are a massive proponent for expansion at DTW it's time you start posting about that fact instead of directing your energy at me and my pointless comments. As far as you comment about Detroit expansion always being shot down it was before I even got on the scene because no one ever talked about Detroit. I suggest when this happens be a man and defend you stance about Detroit and don't let the loud mouths of this forum shut you down. I certainly don't.

gnakra80 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

gnakra80 wrote:

WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS NONSENSE??? Have you ever thought about seeing a therapist to deal with your insecurities about DTW?

Funny how all the self proclaimed intellects on this forum always find a way to make their comments in a condescending way yet I always respond respectfully to every one even when I am being attacked. Perhaps it's you and all the others who need anger management therapy. I'm just here as a cheerleader for my market when everyone is just trying to sweep Detroit under the rug and stop the negative perception about what Detroit and the surrounding area is all about.

I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW, however, it's one thing to get lost in pipe dreams and making claims off of what you want. You propose in here, and in other forums things that just aren't true, and it's incredibly frustrating as any comment any one of us makes on another thread about potential expansion at DTW, gets shot down because you have tarnished the integrity of this airport.

Where have I prosed anything outlandish. None of what I proposed is out of the realm of possibility

EI TO DUB
QR TO DOH
EK TO DXB
DL TO MAN
KE TO ICN
KL TO AMS
LH TO MUC

Certainly I know that all of these will not happen but at least half should be doable. I remember all the flack I got about DTW-KEF and if there was a market it would be served and here we are with WW flying the route even through the winter meaning it had and has potential. What I listed are not pipe dreams but certainly within the realm of possibility.

klm617 wrote:

gnakra80 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Funny how all the self proclaimed intellects on this forum always find a way to make their comments in a condescending way yet I always respond respectfully to every one even when I am being attacked. Perhaps it's you and all the others who need anger management therapy. I'm just here as a cheerleader for my market when everyone is just trying to sweep Detroit under the rug and stop the negative perception about what Detroit and the surrounding area is all about.

I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW, however, it's one thing to get lost in pipe dreams and making claims off of what you want. You propose in here, and in other forums things that just aren't true, and it's incredibly frustrating as any comment any one of us makes on another thread about potential expansion at DTW, gets shot down because you have tarnished the integrity of this airport.

First of all let me say this before I got on here no one ever talked about Detroit. Every thread had about 15 replies and it was dead no one ever wanted to talk about Detroit and new service or growth. I am humbled by the fact that you think that one simple guy can poison the minds of all the a.net members into thinking that his view is how all people that back Detroit service think. That would indicate that the problem lies not with me but with the ego of the other members of this forum because let's face it why attack the comment of a person who knows nothing about how the airline industry works or about the Detroit market itself but perhaps maybe I am touch a nerve that is more closer to the truth than what others would want you to believe. You are free to post about growth at Detroit but again I see you have only made 7 posts in 5 months so your comment "I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW" does not ring true and you only comments about the Detroit market were negative in context. If you are a massive proponent for expansion at DTW it's time you start posting about that fact instead of directing your energy at me and my pointless comments.

It’s one thing to be a proponent, it’s another to fill space for the sake of filling space. I’m sorry but your postings are typically “good news DTW is getting love” or ________ Airline should serve XXX from DTW. We get it. You’re a DTW fanboy. Everyone on here has their favorite airline and airpor, and we want new routes and cities. But to go around in circles every week does get to be a bit much.

Also it’s alwats beneficial to provide facts and statistics to back up ones argument. Name calling and insults have no place here.

As I’ve said many times airlines don’t avoid DTW out of some spite. They probably know more about which markets will make them money more than anyone. They all have entire departments devoted to route planning. They also have only so many aircraft. They can make everyone happy.

*rant over*

lavalampluva wrote:

klm617 wrote:

gnakra80 wrote:

I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW, however, it's one thing to get lost in pipe dreams and making claims off of what you want. You propose in here, and in other forums things that just aren't true, and it's incredibly frustrating as any comment any one of us makes on another thread about potential expansion at DTW, gets shot down because you have tarnished the integrity of this airport.

First of all let me say this before I got on here no one ever talked about Detroit. Every thread had about 15 replies and it was dead no one ever wanted to talk about Detroit and new service or growth. I am humbled by the fact that you think that one simple guy can poison the minds of all the a.net members into thinking that his view is how all people that back Detroit service think. That would indicate that the problem lies not with me but with the ego of the other members of this forum because let's face it why attack the comment of a person who knows nothing about how the airline industry works or about the Detroit market itself but perhaps maybe I am touch a nerve that is more closer to the truth than what others would want you to believe. You are free to post about growth at Detroit but again I see you have only made 7 posts in 5 months so your comment "I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW" does not ring true and you only comments about the Detroit market were negative in context. If you are a massive proponent for expansion at DTW it's time you start posting about that fact instead of directing your energy at me and my pointless comments.

It’s one thing to be a proponent, it’s another to fill space for the sake of filling space. I’m sorry but your postings are typically “good news DTW is getting love” or ________ Airline should serve XXX from DTW. We get it. You’re a DTW fanboy. Everyone on here has their favorite airline and airpor, and we want new routes and cities. But to go around in circles every week does get to be a bit much.

Also it’s alwats beneficial to provide facts and statistics to back up ones argument. Name calling and insults have no place here.

As I’ve said many times airlines don’t avoid DTW out of some spite. They probably know more about which markets will make them money more than anyone. They all have entire departments devoted to route planning. They also have only so many aircraft. They can make everyone happy.

*rant over*

You still don't get but that's OK. You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want I don't judge you on your posts so why is it so important to judge me on my posts. We get that you love your MSP and you have been pretty lucky over the last 5 years with all the additions left and right.

On a positive note WOW Air flights from DTW to KEF are now loaded 4 weekly up through October 2019 and will remain in the afternoon time slot. No more 1230 am departures

klm617 wrote:

gnakra80 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

I'm just here as a cheerleader for my market when everyone is just trying to sweep Detroit under the rug and stop the negative perception about what Detroit and the surrounding area is all about.

That is why you are disregarded, People come to A.net for information and knowledge, not for cheerleading. We are interested in airlines, air routes, and aviation. You are only interested in whining about Detroit.

You were gone for a while, and this topic was interesting and informative. You came back, and now it is all about your crying. You would learn something if you would read things from the people who know what they are talking about, and stop arguing about everything.

klm617 wrote:

[Where have I prosed anything outlandish. None of what I proposed is out of the realm of possibility.

klm617 wrote:

Certainly I know that all of these will not happen but at least half should be doable.

If you know they will not happen, you are wasting our time and space posting them. If you know they will not happen, then you are posting something outlandish.

Carry on children, carry on....

klm617 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

klm617 wrote:

First of all let me say this before I got on here no one ever talked about Detroit. Every thread had about 15 replies and it was dead no one ever wanted to talk about Detroit and new service or growth. I am humbled by the fact that you think that one simple guy can poison the minds of all the a.net members into thinking that his view is how all people that back Detroit service think. That would indicate that the problem lies not with me but with the ego of the other members of this forum because let's face it why attack the comment of a person who knows nothing about how the airline industry works or about the Detroit market itself but perhaps maybe I am touch a nerve that is more closer to the truth than what others would want you to believe. You are free to post about growth at Detroit but again I see you have only made 7 posts in 5 months so your comment "I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW" does not ring true and you only comments about the Detroit market were negative in context. If you are a massive proponent for expansion at DTW it's time you start posting about that fact instead of directing your energy at me and my pointless comments.

It’s one thing to be a proponent, it’s another to fill space for the sake of filling space. I’m sorry but your postings are typically “good news DTW is getting love” or ________ Airline should serve XXX from DTW. We get it. You’re a DTW fanboy. Everyone on here has their favorite airline and airpor, and we want new routes and cities. But to go around in circles every week does get to be a bit much.

Also it’s alwats beneficial to provide facts and statistics to back up ones argument. Name calling and insults have no place here.

As I’ve said many times airlines don’t avoid DTW out of some spite. They probably know more about which markets will make them money more than anyone. They all have entire departments devoted to route planning. They also have only so many aircraft. They can make everyone happy.

*rant over*

You still don't get but that's OK. You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want I don't judge you on your posts so why is it so important to judge me on my posts. We get that you love your MSP and you have been pretty lucky over the last 5 years with all the additions left and right.

Do you realize it’s been 2 months since any one posted anything in the Minneapolis room? We don’t get so obsessed over things. When things happen we’re grateful and we move on.

Midwestindy wrote:

klm617 wrote:

an international flight always generates more revenue for the airport.

This is false an international flight does not always generate more profit, airport fees are usually based on the weight of the aircraft and the number of passengers onboard. For example, a CRJ to YUL is not going to generate more revenue than a 757 to ATL.

I think they were referring to long-haul international flights, not short transborder flights to Canada/Mexico...

klm617 wrote:

gnakra80 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Funny how all the self proclaimed intellects on this forum always find a way to make their comments in a condescending way yet I always respond respectfully to every one even when I am being attacked. Perhaps it's you and all the others who need anger management therapy. I'm just here as a cheerleader for my market when everyone is just trying to sweep Detroit under the rug and stop the negative perception about what Detroit and the surrounding area is all about.

I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW, however, it's one thing to get lost in pipe dreams and making claims off of what you want. You propose in here, and in other forums things that just aren't true, and it's incredibly frustrating as any comment any one of us makes on another thread about potential expansion at DTW, gets shot down because you have tarnished the integrity of this airport.

First of all let me say this before I got on here no one ever talked about Detroit. Every thread had about 15 replies and it was dead no one ever wanted to talk about Detroit and new service or growth. I am humbled by the fact that you think that one simple guy can poison the minds of all the a.net members into thinking that his view is how all people that back Detroit service think. That would indicate that the problem lies not with me but with the ego of the other members of this forum because let's face it why attack the comment of a person who knows nothing about how the airline industry works or about the Detroit market itself but perhaps maybe I am touching a nerve that is more closer to the truth than what others would want you to believe. You are free to post about growth at Detroit but again I see you have only made 7 posts in 5 months so your comment "I'm a massive proponent for expansion at DTW" does not ring true and you only comments about the Detroit market were negative in context. If you are a massive proponent for expansion at DTW it's time you start posting about that fact instead of directing your energy at me and my pointless comments. As far as you comment about Detroit expansion always being shot down it was before I even got on the scene because no one ever talked about Detroit. I suggest when this happens be a man and defend you stance about Detroit and don't let the loud mouths of this forum shut you down. I certainly don't.

Imagine getting this upset on an online airplane discussion board. You need to relax my dude, nobody has it out for Detroit.

klm617 wrote:

If you are a massive proponent for expansion at DTW it's time you start posting about that fact instead of directing your energy at me and my pointless comments.

I have an honest question for you - do you think that your endless postings about Detroit in every thread, regardless of how far-fetched the route or concept, will be seen by someone in the aviation industry with influence, latched onto, and result in new service or something of the like that wouldn't have otherwise been added? Do you think that? If not, what possible reason do you have for going on and on?

I will also piggyback on the previously posted notion that this thread in particular was endlessly better during that month when klm617 didn't post. There were more constructive, realistic, and fact-based discussions and updates, and we would do well to return to that degree of dialogue.

In reference to the top 10 destination airports data by the DOT, ATL is the first market to reach 800K with MCO following at 632K.

See updated Wiki for more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_M ... stinations

winginit wrote:

klm617 wrote:

If you are a massive proponent for expansion at DTW it's time you start posting about that fact instead of directing your energy at me and my pointless comments.

I have an honest question for you - do you think that your endless postings about Detroit in every thread, regardless of how far-fetched the route or concept, will be seen by someone in the aviation industry with influence, latched onto, and result in new service or something of the like that wouldn't have otherwise been added? Do you think that? If not, what possible reason do you have for going on and on?

I will also piggyback on the previously posted notion that this thread in particular was endlessly better during that month when klm617 didn't post. There were more constructive, realistic, and fact-based discussions and updates, and we would do well to return to that degree of dialogue.

What have I proposed that is far fetched ? You mean where you can all pat each other on the back like a bunch fraternity brothers and say what you believe to be true and it's not challenged. I just post my comments no one says you have to make an issue out of everything I post just ignore what I say and move on if it isn't in alignment with your truth.

flymco753 wrote:

In reference to the top 10 destination airports data by the DOT, ATL is the first market to reach 800K with MCO following at 632K.

See updated Wiki for more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_M ... stinations

Does anyone have the data for DTWs top 10 O&D markets? It would be interesting to compare them to the top 10 served markets.

Luke1994 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

In reference to the top 10 destination airports data by the DOT, ATL is the first market to reach 800K with MCO following at 632K.

See updated Wiki for more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_M ... stinations

Does anyone have the data for DTWs top 10 O&D markets? It would be interesting to compare them to the top 10 served markets.

I'll bold the ones I personally think someone will serve here in the next few years.

In the complete 50 averaged in all 4 quarters of 2017, the top 10 markets without service:
1. Sacramento, CA
2. Anchorage, AK
3. El Paso, TX
4. Tuscon, AZ
5. Albuquerque, NM
-Reno, NV
-Palm Springs, CA
-Key West, FL
-Pensacola, FL (VPS over PNS, tbh)
-Spokane, WA

Top 10 O&D markets in order averaged for current 2017:
1. New York City (SWF, HPN, LGA, EWR, JFK, ISP)
2. Orlando, FL (largest market by single airport)
3. Miami Area (MIA, FLL)
4. Washington DC Area (IAD, BWI, DCA)
5. Los Angeles, CA
6. Las Vegas, NV
7. Fort Myers, FL
8. Tampa, FL
9. Phoenix, AZ
10. San Francisco/Bay Area (SFO, SJC, OAK)

klm617 wrote:

winginit wrote:

klm617 wrote:

If you are a massive proponent for expansion at DTW it's time you start posting about that fact instead of directing your energy at me and my pointless comments.

I have an honest question for you - do you think that your endless postings about Detroit in every thread, regardless of how far-fetched the route or concept, will be seen by someone in the aviation industry with influence, latched onto, and result in new service or something of the like that wouldn't have otherwise been added? Do you think that? If not, what possible reason do you have for going on and on?

I will also piggyback on the previously posted notion that this thread in particular was endlessly better during that month when klm617 didn't post. There were more constructive, realistic, and fact-based discussions and updates, and we would do well to return to that degree of dialogue.

What have I proposed that is far fetched ? You mean where you can all pat each other on the back like a bunch fraternity brothers and say what you believe to be true and it's not challenged. I just post my comments no one says you have to make an issue out of everything I post just ignore what I say and move on if it isn't in alignment with your truth.

The re-opening of DET as a commercial airport, which you've proposed numerous times over, is about as far-fetched a theory as any in commercial aviation.

Now, I'll ask you again as you didn't answer my direct question -

Do you think that your endless postings about Detroit in every thread will be seen by someone in the aviation industry with influence, latched onto, and result in new service or something of the like that wouldn't have otherwise been added?

winginit wrote:

klm617 wrote:

winginit wrote:

I have an honest question for you - do you think that your endless postings about Detroit in every thread, regardless of how far-fetched the route or concept, will be seen by someone in the aviation industry with influence, latched onto, and result in new service or something of the like that wouldn't have otherwise been added? Do you think that? If not, what possible reason do you have for going on and on?

I will also piggyback on the previously posted notion that this thread in particular was endlessly better during that month when klm617 didn't post. There were more constructive, realistic, and fact-based discussions and updates, and we would do well to return to that degree of dialogue.

What have I proposed that is far fetched ? You mean where you can all pat each other on the back like a bunch fraternity brothers and say what you believe to be true and it's not challenged. I just post my comments no one says you have to make an issue out of everything I post just ignore what I say and move on if it isn't in alignment with your truth.

The re-opening of DET as a commercial airport, which you've proposed numerous times over, is about as far-fetched a theory as any in commercial aviation.

Now, I'll ask you again as you didn't answer my direct question -

Do you think that your endless postings about Detroit in every thread will be seen by someone in the aviation industry with influence, latched onto, and result in new service or something of the like that wouldn't have otherwise been added?

You never know who sees what when it comes to social media and the more positive talk there is about Detroit and the surrounding area perhaps we can bring light to the positive aspects of this region rather than all the negativity that is being spewed about Detroit in this forum. Why is it that my comments are always attacked but yet there are more ridicules comments on this forum that no one ever challenges. Like the idea that Delta might start AUS-ICN should that become a focus city. I am going to keep speaking the positive aspects of Detroit and the surrounding area because I'm tired of people trashing my hometown and the airport that serves it. You guys may all be OK with the status quo and shooting down anything potential for this market but I'm not sorry there us untapped potential her and it needs to be brought to light. Both EI and DY say this market is underserved are they wrong too. On the topic of answering questions you never really directly answered my question and gave a very vague answer. With all your infinite wisdom you bring to this forum what markets have potential in in what direction should the WCAA being going in to bring these markets to frustration. And please nothing is not an acceptable answer using this as a rule of thumb MSP-ICN has 30 PDEW but none the less is being at temped. So again with all that being said and actual airlines themselves saying it's underserved there is potential.

flymco753 wrote:

Luke1994 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

In reference to the top 10 destination airports data by the DOT, ATL is the first market to reach 800K with MCO following at 632K.

See updated Wiki for more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_M ... stinations

Does anyone have the data for DTWs top 10 O&D markets? It would be interesting to compare them to the top 10 served markets.

I'll bold the ones I personally think someone will serve here in the next few years.

In the complete 50 averaged in all 4 quarters of 2017, the top 10 markets without service:
1. Sacramento, CA
2. Anchorage, AK
3. El Paso, TX
4. Tuscon, AZ
5. Albuquerque, NM
-Reno, NV
-Palm Springs, CA
-Key West, FL
-Pensacola, FL (VPS over PNS, tbh)
-Spokane, WA

Top 10 O&D markets in order averaged for current 2017:
1. New York City (SWF, HPN, LGA, EWR, JFK, ISP)
2. Orlando, FL (largest market by single airport)
3. Miami Area (MIA, FLL)
4. Washington DC Area (IAD, BWI, DCA)
5. Los Angeles, CA
6. Las Vegas, NV
7. Fort Myers, FL
8. Tampa, FL
9. Phoenix, AZ
10. San Francisco/Bay Area (SFO, SJC, OAK)

Could you also post the current numbers for MSP/DTW/ATL and ICN

klm617 wrote:

winginit wrote:

klm617 wrote:

What have I proposed that is far fetched ? You mean where you can all pat each other on the back like a bunch fraternity brothers and say what you believe to be true and it's not challenged. I just post my comments no one says you have to make an issue out of everything I post just ignore what I say and move on if it isn't in alignment with your truth.

The re-opening of DET as a commercial airport, which you've proposed numerous times over, is about as far-fetched a theory as any in commercial aviation.

Now, I'll ask you again as you didn't answer my direct question -

Do you think that your endless postings about Detroit in every thread will be seen by someone in the aviation industry with influence, latched onto, and result in new service or something of the like that wouldn't have otherwise been added?

You never know who sees what when it comes to social media and the more positive talk there is about Detroit and the surrounding area perhaps we can bring light to the positive aspects of this region rather than all the negativity that is being spewed about Detroit in this forum. Why is it that my comments are always attacked but yet there are more ridicules comments on this forum that no one ever challenges. Like the idea that Delta might start AUS-ICN should that become a focus city. I am going to keep speaking the positive aspects of Detroit and the surrounding area because I'm tired of people trashing my hometown and the airport that serves it. You guys may all be OK with the status quo and shooting down anything potential for this market but I'm not sorry there us untapped potential her and it needs to be brought to light. Both EI and DY say this market is underserved are they wrong too. On the topic of answering questions you never really directly answered my question and gave a very vague answer. With all your infinite wisdom you bring to this forum what markets have potential in in what direction should the WCAA being going in to bring these markets to frustration. And please nothing is not an acceptable answer using this as a rule of thumb MSP-ICN has 30 PDEW but none the less is being at temped. So again with all that being said and actual airlines themselves saying it's underserved there is potential.

Fifty-one words in your first sentence there - always impressive.

I think you answered my very yes or no question somewhere in there but hard to tell. It sounds like yes, you do post the way you post and with such frequency because you think that someone with decision making power at an airline will see it and think "you know what... we should go with Detroit. I was on the fence before but this here post has convinced me".

If you're curious as to what makes your posts different from speculation elsewhere, it's because you state your opinions as facts (ie DTWBOM is the more viable move for DL even when compared against ATL or JFK) and often spew what are 100% refutable lies in your posts (ie DL is reducing capacity in/out of DTW). I enjoy correcting those lies.

Interesting to see your logic behind why you post the way you post.

klm617 wrote:

Could you also post the current numbers for MSP/DTW/ATL and ICN

Why do you continue to ask questions that have already been answered numerous times? Is it because you don't like the facts that were already posted? Allow me to remind you of what's already been posted:

SumChristianus wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Does anyone here have the O/D numbers for ATL-ICN and DTW-ICN

ATL-ICN: 257 PDEW
SEA-ICN: 205 PDEW
DTW-ICN: 78 PDEW
MSP-ICN: 30 PDEW

winginit wrote:

klm617 wrote:

winginit wrote:

I have an honest question for you - do you think that your endless postings about Detroit in every thread, regardless of how far-fetched the route or concept, will be seen by someone in the aviation industry with influence, latched onto, and result in new service or something of the like that wouldn't have otherwise been added? Do you think that? If not, what possible reason do you have for going on and on?

I will also piggyback on the previously posted notion that this thread in particular was endlessly better during that month when klm617 didn't post. There were more constructive, realistic, and fact-based discussions and updates, and we would do well to return to that degree of dialogue.

What have I proposed that is far fetched ? You mean where you can all pat each other on the back like a bunch fraternity brothers and say what you believe to be true and it's not challenged. I just post my comments no one says you have to make an issue out of everything I post just ignore what I say and move on if it isn't in alignment with your truth.

The re-opening of DET as a commercial airport, which you've proposed numerous times over, is about as far-fetched a theory as any in commercial aviation.

Now, I'll ask you again as you didn't answer my direct question -

Do you think that your endless postings about Detroit in every thread will be seen by someone in the aviation industry with influence, latched onto, and result in new service or something of the like that wouldn't have otherwise been added?

As far as DET goes smarter people than me think so too so it's not far fetched at all.

https://metroairways.net/

http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/Ann ... t-in-2018/

winginit wrote:

klm617 wrote:

winginit wrote:

The re-opening of DET as a commercial airport, which you've proposed numerous times over, is about as far-fetched a theory as any in commercial aviation.

Now, I'll ask you again as you didn't answer my direct question -

Do you think that your endless postings about Detroit in every thread will be seen by someone in the aviation industry with influence, latched onto, and result in new service or something of the like that wouldn't have otherwise been added?

You never know who sees what when it comes to social media and the more positive talk there is about Detroit and the surrounding area perhaps we can bring light to the positive aspects of this region rather than all the negativity that is being spewed about Detroit in this forum. Why is it that my comments are always attacked but yet there are more ridicules comments on this forum that no one ever challenges. Like the idea that Delta might start AUS-ICN should that become a focus city. I am going to keep speaking the positive aspects of Detroit and the surrounding area because I'm tired of people trashing my hometown and the airport that serves it. You guys may all be OK with the status quo and shooting down anything potential for this market but I'm not sorry there us untapped potential her and it needs to be brought to light. Both EI and DY say this market is underserved are they wrong too. On the topic of answering questions you never really directly answered my question and gave a very vague answer. With all your infinite wisdom you bring to this forum what markets have potential in in what direction should the WCAA being going in to bring these markets to frustration. And please nothing is not an acceptable answer using this as a rule of thumb MSP-ICN has 30 PDEW but none the less is being at temped. So again with all that being said and actual airlines themselves saying it's underserved there is potential.

Fifty-one words in your first sentence there - always impressive.

I think you answered my very yes or no question somewhere in there but hard to tell. It sounds like yes, you do post the way you post and with such frequency because you think that someone with decision making power at an airline will see it and think "you know what... we should go with Detroit. I was on the fence before but this here post has convinced me".

If you're curious as to what makes your posts different from speculation elsewhere, it's because you state your opinions as facts (ie DTWBOM is the more viable move for DL even when compared against ATL or JFK) and often spew what are 100% refutable lies in your posts (ie DL is reducing capacity in/out of DTW). I enjoy correcting those lies.

Interesting to see your logic behind why you post the way you post.

klm617 wrote:

Could you also post the current numbers for MSP/DTW/ATL and ICN

Why do you continue to ask questions that have already been answered numerous times? Is it because you don't like the facts that were already posted? Allow me to remind you of what's already been posted:

SumChristianus wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Does anyone here have the O/D numbers for ATL-ICN and DTW-ICN

ATL-ICN: 257 PDEW
SEA-ICN: 205 PDEW
DTW-ICN: 78 PDEW
MSP-ICN: 30 PDEW

Those are outdated numbers I would like current numbers

KLM617....time-out.

We discussed that pie-in-the sky idea over a year ago when the article was first written about the Metro Airways pipe-dream. Zero anything has happened since that time, when the article was published in May 2017.

Don't go repackaging that as something new again.
Lets not go there again, come on' man you are smarter than that!

klm617 wrote:

As far as DET goes smarter people than me think so too so it's not far fetched at all.

https://metroairways.net/

http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/Ann ... t-in-2018/

klm617 wrote:

Those are outdated numbers I would like current numbers

Ah gotcha, so posting outdated articles about DET is totally cool to back your recent pitches to re-open the airport but MIDT PDEW figures? It's unacceptable to consider those if they're anything but fresh out of SQL. You're unbelievable, but by all means keep it up! I'll be right here to correct you.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

KLM617....time-out.

We discussed that pie-in-the sky idea over a year ago when the article was first written about the Metro Airways pipe-dream. Zero anything has happened since that time, when the article was published in May 2017.

Don't go repackaging that as something new again.
Lets not go there again, come on' man you are smarter than that!

You are right but in all fairness when is the last time I mentioned DET about the same time these articles came out so winingit is also bringing up old news. We talked about it then and it hasn't come up in a long time do you not agree I am just replying to his comment and yes I agree with you Metro Airways is a pie in the sky idea that probably will never happen .

winginit wrote:

klm617 wrote:

As far as DET goes smarter people than me think so too so it's not far fetched at all.

https://metroairways.net/

http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/Ann ... t-in-2018/

klm617 wrote:

Those are outdated numbers I would like current numbers

Ah gotcha, so posting outdated articles about DET is totally cool to back your recent pitches to re-open the airport but MIDT PDEW figures? It's unacceptable to consider those if they're anything but fresh out of SQL. You're unbelievable, but by all means keep it up! I'll be right here to correct you.

Very good and I appreciate you educating me so we can all learn together.

klm617 wrote:

You are right but in all fairness when is the last time I mentioned DET about the same time these articles came out so winingit is also bringing up old news.

Do you see what you're doing here? You're lying. In that post right there you. are. lying.

Your articles about DET are from May 2017, seventeen months ago, and you just brought up DET, unprovoked, in this thread four months ago...

klm617 wrote:

I think Allegiant would be a great fit for DET and TVC. Would also love to see LAS-FNT added.

This is why people don't respect you. You lie.

Steering this back to DTW-MAN. The article mentioned in passing in the top post of this page suggested around the mid 50s PDEW, Of more recent interest is that at the last World Routes conference, there was a publication by Anna Aero showing the largest number of long-haul searches out of DTW on unserved routes. And strange to say DTW-MAN was number 1 on that list. It was only 14,000 Skyscanner searches but you have to wonder how many people were "repeat" visitors to Skyscanner checking it out and on seeing there wasn't, booking a 1-stop option instead. We already know of the significant increase in demand that gets established once a non-stop route is introduced (MAN-HKG was roughly 35% higher than predicted). Already this winter MAN is getting a long-haul route that gets a princely 4 PDEW on O+D but it targetting 400,000 travellers to the region (it's ET to ADD if you are keen to know) so having less that stellar PDEW numbers is not the sole criterion that needs to be used for a possible route.

What someone has to establish is what kind of connecting possibilities does DTW have compared any other "major" airport in the vicinity (ORD, PIT, CLE, IND, CVG). Yes MAN lost it's ORD link but with 32 years of the route having existed, I would suggest that the market for a mid-west USA link to MAN does exist and it's just AA's performance at ORD that has caused issues. UA still chooses to not look at an ORD-MAN route even though they benefitted from all the numbers that BD gave them flying to ORD for 7 years (that was the longest running profitable long-haul route they had but was lost due to the overall long-haul network losses). AA's ORD route was doing 11,000 passengers a month this year or roughly 175 PDEW... there is no way that just O+D for ORD-MAN was near that.

Business travvellers may well prefer to see 5 to 7 weekly frequencies which would infer that DL is the one to operate the route given the larger capacity VS fleet. But as we have seen VS is not averse to operating 2 to 4 weekly services to various DL hubs out of MAN with daily ops to ATL, JFK and MCO. The potential is there for them to do MAN-DTW 4 weekly whilst boosting some of the lower frequency routes they have but that does require a resolution to the 789 engine issues to free up an A330.. I would also be half tempted to think of MT doing a 2 weekly service literally going on O+D basis only but for the idea that B6 doesn't really have a presence and one of the key features of the ramping up of transatlantic routes by MT is the tie-in with B6 at various airports.

I saw a poster reference this thread in another and thought I would see what all the darkness was about, but man I was not ready for autistic level of discussion happening here. What a pity.

Does DTW-KEF overnight in DTW?-- If not, that may explain why it was not cut like pretty much every other new WW route

stl07 wrote:

Does DTW-KEF overnight in DTW?-- If not, that may explain why it was not cut like pretty much every other new WW route

No it does not. It will arrive at 455 pm and depart at 555 pm when it reverts to the new afternoon schedule..

klm617 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Does DTW-KEF overnight in DTW?-- If not, that may explain why it was not cut like pretty much every other new WW route

No it does not. It will arrive at 455 pm and depart at 555 pm when it reverts to the new afternoon schedule..

Good, hopefully, it will be flying for years to come.

stl07 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Does DTW-KEF overnight in DTW?-- If not, that may explain why it was not cut like pretty much every other new WW route

No it does not. It will arrive at 455 pm and depart at 555 pm when it reverts to the new afternoon schedule..

Good, hopefully, it will be flying for years to come.

I call this a product of the "steep yield margin", basically distinguishing the decent gap in yields between WW and DL. Theres no feasible option that yields between the two allowing WOW to gain premium traffic.

I made an error, forgot Atlanta.

Top 11 O&D markets in order averaged for current 2017:
1. New York City (SWF, HPN, LGA, EWR, JFK, ISP)
2. Orlando, FL (largest market by single airport)
3. Miami Area (MIA, FLL)
4. Atlanta, GA
5. Washington DC Area (IAD, BWI, DCA)
6. Los Angeles, CA
7. Las Vegas, NV
8. Fort Myers, FL
9. Tampa, FL
10. Phoenix, AZ
11. San Francisco/Bay Area (SFO, SJC, OAK)

stl07 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Does DTW-KEF overnight in DTW?-- If not, that may explain why it was not cut like pretty much every other new WW route

No it does not. It will arrive at 455 pm and depart at 555 pm when it reverts to the new afternoon schedule..

Good, hopefully, it will be flying for years to come.

Thank you very much. So grateful that Detroit made the cut and that we were able to hold onto our WOW flight. But given the current status of WOW needless to say I'm holding my breath as we to could get cut at a moments notice. So sorry that STL couldn't hang on but perhaps there are better things in the pipeline. EI holding off on Detroit may have been a good thing as now WOW can get more established in the market before another low cost player arrives in Detroit. Had EI chose Detroit WOW may have cut Detroit due to the pressure they might of felt by EI coming in at eating at their premium loads.

David_itl wrote:

Steering this back to DTW-MAN. The article mentioned in passing in the top post of this page suggested around the mid 50s PDEW, Of more recent interest is that at the last World Routes conference, there was a publication by Anna Aero showing the largest number of long-haul searches out of DTW on unserved routes. And strange to say DTW-MAN was number 1 on that list. It was only 14,000 Skyscanner searches but you have to wonder how many people were "repeat" visitors to Skyscanner checking it out and on seeing there wasn't, booking a 1-stop option instead. We already know of the significant increase in demand that gets established once a non-stop route is introduced (MAN-HKG was roughly 35% higher than predicted). Already this winter MAN is getting a long-haul route that gets a princely 4 PDEW on O+D but it targetting 400,000 travellers to the region (it's ET to ADD if you are keen to know) so having less that stellar PDEW numbers is not the sole criterion that needs to be used for a possible route.

What someone has to establish is what kind of connecting possibilities does DTW have compared any other "major" airport in the vicinity (ORD, PIT, CLE, IND, CVG). Yes MAN lost it's ORD link but with 32 years of the route having existed, I would suggest that the market for a mid-west USA link to MAN does exist and it's just AA's performance at ORD that has caused issues. UA still chooses to not look at an ORD-MAN route even though they benefitted from all the numbers that BD gave them flying to ORD for 7 years (that was the longest running profitable long-haul route they had but was lost due to the overall long-haul network losses). AA's ORD route was doing 11,000 passengers a month this year or roughly 175 PDEW... there is no way that just O+D for ORD-MAN was near that.

Business travvellers may well prefer to see 5 to 7 weekly frequencies which would infer that DL is the one to operate the route given the larger capacity VS fleet. But as we have seen VS is not averse to operating 2 to 4 weekly services to various DL hubs out of MAN with daily ops to ATL, JFK and MCO. The potential is there for them to do MAN-DTW 4 weekly whilst boosting some of the lower frequency routes they have but that does require a resolution to the 789 engine issues to free up an A330.. I would also be half tempted to think of MT doing a 2 weekly service literally going on O+D basis only but for the idea that B6 doesn't really have a presence and one of the key features of the ramping up of transatlantic routes by MT is the tie-in with B6 at various airports.

I think MAN would start as a summer seasonal and go from there; I also think it's more of a Delta 757/767 route. DTW would benefit from being a marginally shorter stage length than ORD, and could capture a nice slice of that traffic year round-the other connection point options (JFK, EWR, PHL) are awful or ATL which is way out of the way. Take Detroit O&D, leverage the traffic from MSP, SLC, and CVG and then win the biggest slice of ORD, STL, MKE, IND, CLE, and CMH traffic and that's a formula that could work.

Another thought along the same lines: Rome as a year round operation? Italy traffic is highly seasonal, but nobody runs a year round to anywhere in the Midwest. AA's ORD operation is a shambles, and UA doesn't have a hub on the other end. But with a 763 and a hub on each end, I wonder if it would warrant a year round go. Probably not; likely the traffic plunges off a cliff after August, but I do wonder......

Courtesy: MLive

Icelandic Budget Airline To Offer One-Way $199 Detroit-Tel Aviv Flights

https://www.mlive.com/news/us-world/index.ssf/2018/10/icelandic_budget_airline_to_of.html#incart_river_index

GSP psgr wrote:

David_itl wrote:

Steering this back to DTW-MAN. The article mentioned in passing in the top post of this page suggested around the mid 50s PDEW, Of more recent interest is that at the last World Routes conference, there was a publication by Anna Aero showing the largest number of long-haul searches out of DTW on unserved routes. And strange to say DTW-MAN was number 1 on that list. It was only 14,000 Skyscanner searches but you have to wonder how many people were "repeat" visitors to Skyscanner checking it out and on seeing there wasn't, booking a 1-stop option instead. We already know of the significant increase in demand that gets established once a non-stop route is introduced (MAN-HKG was roughly 35% higher than predicted). Already this winter MAN is getting a long-haul route that gets a princely 4 PDEW on O+D but it targetting 400,000 travellers to the region (it's ET to ADD if you are keen to know) so having less that stellar PDEW numbers is not the sole criterion that needs to be used for a possible route.

What someone has to establish is what kind of connecting possibilities does DTW have compared any other "major" airport in the vicinity (ORD, PIT, CLE, IND, CVG). Yes MAN lost it's ORD link but with 32 years of the route having existed, I would suggest that the market for a mid-west USA link to MAN does exist and it's just AA's performance at ORD that has caused issues. UA still chooses to not look at an ORD-MAN route even though they benefitted from all the numbers that BD gave them flying to ORD for 7 years (that was the longest running profitable long-haul route they had but was lost due to the overall long-haul network losses). AA's ORD route was doing 11,000 passengers a month this year or roughly 175 PDEW... there is no way that just O+D for ORD-MAN was near that.

Business travvellers may well prefer to see 5 to 7 weekly frequencies which would infer that DL is the one to operate the route given the larger capacity VS fleet. But as we have seen VS is not averse to operating 2 to 4 weekly services to various DL hubs out of MAN with daily ops to ATL, JFK and MCO. The potential is there for them to do MAN-DTW 4 weekly whilst boosting some of the lower frequency routes they have but that does require a resolution to the 789 engine issues to free up an A330.. I would also be half tempted to think of MT doing a 2 weekly service literally going on O+D basis only but for the idea that B6 doesn't really have a presence and one of the key features of the ramping up of transatlantic routes by MT is the tie-in with B6 at various airports.

I think MAN would start as a summer seasonal and go from there; I also think it's more of a Delta 757/767 route. DTW would benefit from being a marginally shorter stage length than ORD, and could capture a nice slice of that traffic year round-the other connection point options (JFK, EWR, PHL) are awful or ATL which is way out of the way. Take Detroit O&D, leverage the traffic from MSP, SLC, and CVG and then win the biggest slice of ORD, STL, MKE, IND, CLE, and CMH traffic and that's a formula that could work.

Another thought along the same lines: Rome as a year round operation? Italy traffic is highly seasonal, but nobody runs a year round to anywhere in the Midwest. AA's ORD operation is a shambles, and UA doesn't have a hub on the other end. But with a 763 and a hub on each end, I wonder if it would warrant a year round go. Probably not; likely the traffic plunges off a cliff after August, but I do wonder......

It's a questionable proposition at best. As you acknowledged, Rome's O&D is much stronger in summer, which already makes the notion of running it year-round rather wobbly. Furthermore, we need to think about the hubs. Detroit offers good connectivity, but Alitalia's FCO offering, even if we assume AZ will last and remain a partner of DL's, doesn't really give much that CDG and AMS don't already do ably.

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

David_itl wrote:

Steering this back to DTW-MAN. The article mentioned in passing in the top post of this page suggested around the mid 50s PDEW, Of more recent interest is that at the last World Routes conference, there was a publication by Anna Aero showing the largest number of long-haul searches out of DTW on unserved routes. And strange to say DTW-MAN was number 1 on that list. It was only 14,000 Skyscanner searches but you have to wonder how many people were "repeat" visitors to Skyscanner checking it out and on seeing there wasn't, booking a 1-stop option instead. We already know of the significant increase in demand that gets established once a non-stop route is introduced (MAN-HKG was roughly 35% higher than predicted). Already this winter MAN is getting a long-haul route that gets a princely 4 PDEW on O+D but it targetting 400,000 travellers to the region (it's ET to ADD if you are keen to know) so having less that stellar PDEW numbers is not the sole criterion that needs to be used for a possible route.

What someone has to establish is what kind of connecting possibilities does DTW have compared any other "major" airport in the vicinity (ORD, PIT, CLE, IND, CVG). Yes MAN lost it's ORD link but with 32 years of the route having existed, I would suggest that the market for a mid-west USA link to MAN does exist and it's just AA's performance at ORD that has caused issues. UA still chooses to not look at an ORD-MAN route even though they benefitted from all the numbers that BD gave them flying to ORD for 7 years (that was the longest running profitable long-haul route they had but was lost due to the overall long-haul network losses). AA's ORD route was doing 11,000 passengers a month this year or roughly 175 PDEW... there is no way that just O+D for ORD-MAN was near that.

Business travvellers may well prefer to see 5 to 7 weekly frequencies which would infer that DL is the one to operate the route given the larger capacity VS fleet. But as we have seen VS is not averse to operating 2 to 4 weekly services to various DL hubs out of MAN with daily ops to ATL, JFK and MCO. The potential is there for them to do MAN-DTW 4 weekly whilst boosting some of the lower frequency routes they have but that does require a resolution to the 789 engine issues to free up an A330.. I would also be half tempted to think of MT doing a 2 weekly service literally going on O+D basis only but for the idea that B6 doesn't really have a presence and one of the key features of the ramping up of transatlantic routes by MT is the tie-in with B6 at various airports.

I think MAN would start as a summer seasonal and go from there; I also think it's more of a Delta 757/767 route. DTW would benefit from being a marginally shorter stage length than ORD, and could capture a nice slice of that traffic year round-the other connection point options (JFK, EWR, PHL) are awful or ATL which is way out of the way. Take Detroit O&D, leverage the traffic from MSP, SLC, and CVG and then win the biggest slice of ORD, STL, MKE, IND, CLE, and CMH traffic and that's a formula that could work.

Another thought along the same lines: Rome as a year round operation? Italy traffic is highly seasonal, but nobody runs a year round to anywhere in the Midwest. AA's ORD operation is a shambles, and UA doesn't have a hub on the other end. But with a 763 and a hub on each end, I wonder if it would warrant a year round go. Probably not; likely the traffic plunges off a cliff after August, but I do wonder......

It's a questionable proposition at best. As you acknowledged, Rome's O&D is much stronger in summer, which already makes the notion of running it year-round rather wobbly. Furthermore, we need to think about the hubs. Detroit offers good connectivity, but Alitalia's FCO offering, even if we assume AZ will last and remain a partner of DL's, doesn't really give much that CDG and AMS don't already do ably.

I think questionable at best is a very dim and inaccurate view of this man's analysis. We all know that once a route starts it stimulates traffic so the numbers will rise not to mention DTW-MAN can be done on a 757. With that being said and DTW being a hub if MSP-ICN can work with just 30 PDEW surely DTW-MAN on a narrow body to a destination much closer than ICN is within the realm of possibility. So let's stimulate the conversation to why it could work rather than putting a negative twist on what was posted when it clearly was a post of positive nature.

klm617 wrote:

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

I think MAN would start as a summer seasonal and go from there; I also think it's more of a Delta 757/767 route. DTW would benefit from being a marginally shorter stage length than ORD, and could capture a nice slice of that traffic year round-the other connection point options (JFK, EWR, PHL) are awful or ATL which is way out of the way. Take Detroit O&D, leverage the traffic from MSP, SLC, and CVG and then win the biggest slice of ORD, STL, MKE, IND, CLE, and CMH traffic and that's a formula that could work.

Another thought along the same lines: Rome as a year round operation? Italy traffic is highly seasonal, but nobody runs a year round to anywhere in the Midwest. AA's ORD operation is a shambles, and UA doesn't have a hub on the other end. But with a 763 and a hub on each end, I wonder if it would warrant a year round go. Probably not; likely the traffic plunges off a cliff after August, but I do wonder......

It's a questionable proposition at best. As you acknowledged, Rome's O&D is much stronger in summer, which already makes the notion of running it year-round rather wobbly. Furthermore, we need to think about the hubs. Detroit offers good connectivity, but Alitalia's FCO offering, even if we assume AZ will last and remain a partner of DL's, doesn't really give much that CDG and AMS don't already do ably.

I think questionable at best is a very dim and inaccurate view of this man's analysis. We all know that once a route starts it stimulates traffic so the numbers will rise not to mention DTW-MAN can be done on a 757. With that being said and DTW being a hub if MSP-ICN can work with just 30 PDEW surely DTW-MAN on a narrow body to a destination much closer than ICN is within the realm of possibility. So let's stimulate the conversation to why it could work rather than putting a negative twist on what was posted when it clearly was a post of positive nature.

Does a post discussing "Alitalia" "AZ" "FCO" "Rome" sound like it's about MAN? No? That's because it isn't. Read posts.
But let's talk about MAN, shall we? I can see the possibility of a seasonal 757, maybe. The comparison to MSP-ICN is stupid (hub at both ends vs. not), but it's not unfathomable. Maybe with the VS FF base, DTW's connectivity, etc, it can connect Manchester to the Midwest and west. Maybe.

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:

klm617 wrote:

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:

It's a questionable proposition at best. As you acknowledged, Rome's O&D is much stronger in summer, which already makes the notion of running it year-round rather wobbly. Furthermore, we need to think about the hubs. Detroit offers good connectivity, but Alitalia's FCO offering, even if we assume AZ will last and remain a partner of DL's, doesn't really give much that CDG and AMS don't already do ably.

I think questionable at best is a very dim and inaccurate view of this man's analysis. We all know that once a route starts it stimulates traffic so the numbers will rise not to mention DTW-MAN can be done on a 757. With that being said and DTW being a hub if MSP-ICN can work with just 30 PDEW surely DTW-MAN on a narrow body to a destination much closer than ICN is within the realm of possibility. So let's stimulate the conversation to why it could work rather than putting a negative twist on what was posted when it clearly was a post of positive nature.

Does a post discussing "Alitalia" "AZ" "FCO" "Rome" sound like it's about MAN? No? That's because it isn't. Read posts.
But let's talk about MAN, shall we? I can see the possibility of a seasonal 757, maybe. The comparison to MSP-ICN is stupid (hub at both ends vs. not), but it's not unfathomable. Maybe with the VS FF base, DTW's connectivity, etc, it can connect Manchester to the Midwest and west. Maybe.

You are correct I misread the post you were replying to so please accept my apologies. As far as DTW-FCO you are correct I don't think it will ever be year round and let's face it having Delta on Detroit Rome if far better than Alitalia again the quality and reliability of Delta on that route is much better than Alitalia. But we have the best we are going to get on Detroit Rome now.

They put some rooms to feed babies in the Delta terminal. Nice to know for when my wife and I decide to visit Michigan with kids.

error

So with BA starting LHR-CHS that opens up a whole bunch of new possibilities at what Detroit might attract. If a market that is that far out of the box can be added anything becomes possible.

klm617 wrote:

So with BA starting LHR-CHS that opens up a whole bunch of new possibilities at what Detroit might attract. If a market that is that far out of the box can be added anything becomes possible.

CHS paid an almost $2m financial incentive for one year. 2x a week won’t mean much of a loss to BA if it doesn’t pan out.