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Nami
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:33 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
CAAC on 13FEB18 posted Beijing Capital Airlines' application for Beijing – Helsinki route 3 times a week, from May 2018. However the airline continues to display 3 weekly from 22JUN18 in the GDS and OAG

Twitter

Will this planned service be ever materialized?


Definitely maybe.

Hopefully they've been informed by Finavia that they better skip flights on the 22nd of June as it's during Midsummer and the city will be deserted with most places closed.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:45 pm


Norwegian targets more South America and Asia routes

Norwegian’s chief executive Bjorn Kjos has outlined plans for the low-cost airline to add additional routes to South America and Asia from the UK, with Tokyo, Shanghai and Beijing in its sights.

Norwegian is to pursue further route expansion from London to South America and Asia, the carrier’s chief executive Bjorn Kjos has confirmed.

The airline said it is exploring potential new routes to more South American countries due to strong ticket sales on the London Gatwick - Buenos Aires route, which begins this week.

Further Asia expansion will build upon the launch of the world’s longest low-cost route to Singapore with destinations such as Tokyo, Shanghai and Beijing planned if the airline receives access to the Siberian corridor. The Siberian corridor gives Norwegian the most efficient and direct routing across Russia to the Far East.

Eight brand-new Airbus A321neo LR will land in Norwegian’s fleet in 2019 and will serve the UK from 2020. The A321neo LR will be Norwegian’s first Airbus aircraft to fly in its fleet as plans are underway to use these aircraft from London to the US East Coast and Midwest.

Cities such as Detroit, Philadelphia and Minneapolis are examples of destinations that could be served. Norwegian will also consider routes to the Middle East using the Airbus A321neo LR.

Routesonline

More long-haul flights from London coming up. How about Nordics? According to Wikipedia, the typical range of A321neo LR (with 206 passengers; DY will have 220 seats) is 7,400 km / 4,000 nm, so the aircraft should be able to operate on following routes:

HEL-PEK (3,416 nm) / ARN-PEK (3,624 nm)
HEL-PHL (3,654 nm) / ARN-PHL (3,484 nm)
HEL-BLR (3,641 nm) / ARN-BLR (3,819 nm)
HEL-NBO (3,733 nm) / ARN-NBO (3,759 nm)

Source: Great Circle Mapper

Based on these figures, DY could theoretically fly from HEL and ARN (also from CPH and OSL) as far as to Beijing, Philadelphia, Bangalore and Nairobi. Thus, the aircraft could at least reach JFK, BOS, DEL, BOM, URC, ADD etc. from OSL, CPH, HEL and ARN. So, there are a lot of possible cities that could be served from the Nordics with A321neo LR. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:56 am

Finnair 2017 financial figures

Revenue increased by 10.9% to 2,568.4 million euros (2,316.8)*.
Available seat kilometres (ASK) grew by 8.9%.
Comparable operating result was 170.4 million euros (55.2).
Operating result was 224.8 million euros (116.2), including a sales gain on an A350 aircraft.
Comparable EBITDAR** was 436.2 million euros (270.4).
Net cash flow from operating activities was 382.3 million euros (219.7), and net cash flow from investing activities was -157.5 million euros (-499.6).***
Unit revenue (RASK) increased by 1.8%.
Unit cost (CASK) decreased by 2.6% and unit cost at constant currency excluding fuel increased by 0.3%.
The 20-million euro cost-efficiency program was completed in full by the summer.
Ancillary and retail revenue per passenger grew by 5.2% to 12.15 euros.
Earnings per share were 1.23 euros (0.55).
The Board of Directors proposes to the Annual General Meeting that a dividend of 0.30 euros per share be distributed for 2017.

* Unless otherwise stated, comparisons and figures in parentheses refer to the comparison period, i.e. the same period last year.
** Comparable operating result + depreciation + lease payments for aircraft.
*** Net cash flow from investing activities in Q4, includes 26.8 million euros of investments to money market funds or other financial assets maturing after more than three months. In 2017, these investments decreased in net terms by 82.9 million euros. These investments are part of the Group’s liquidity management.




Outlook for 2018

Global airline traffic is expected to grow strongly in 2018. Finnair expects increased competition as existing and new operators increase capacity, particularly on routes linking Europe with Asia and with North America.

Finnair plans on increasing its capacity by more than 15 per cent in 2018, with most of this growth coming in the first half of the year. Passenger volume is expected to grow broadly in line with capacity while revenue growth is expected to be slightly lower.

In line with its disclosure policy, Finnair will issue guidance on its full-year comparable operating result as part of its half-year report in July.


Finnair - news.cision
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
Nami
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:20 am

Looking at AY's annual report for 2017 it seems that they will take deliveries of the A350s in a tighter time frame.

The backbone of Finnair’s growth strategy is the renewal of its wide-body fleet. In 2017, the first stage of the fleet renewal was accomplished: now Finnair has 11 Airbus A350 aircraft. In 2018-2023, Finnair will receive a further eight A350s, and thus the entire wide-body fleet will grow from 19 to 27 aircraft by 2022. (page 12-13)

Finnair has decided to reschedule the delivery of one A350 aircraft from 2023 to 2019, which means that the remaining eight A350s will be delivered to Finnair between 2018–2022. (page 35)


Finnair Annual Report 2017
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:33 am

I saw a headline saying the PSO route between Helsinki and Savonlinna will change to a new airline. I think at the moment Budapest Aircraft Service are currently operating the flights for a separate marketing company.

Anyone know more about the details of when the airline change will happen and who the new airline will be ?
 
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teme82
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:13 pm

Nami wrote:
Looking at AY's annual report for 2017 it seems that they will take deliveries of the A350s in a tighter time frame.

The backbone of Finnair’s growth strategy is the renewal of its wide-body fleet. In 2017, the first stage of the fleet renewal was accomplished: now Finnair has 11 Airbus A350 aircraft. In 2018-2023, Finnair will receive a further eight A350s, and thus the entire wide-body fleet will grow from 19 to 27 aircraft by 2022. (page 12-13)

Finnair has decided to reschedule the delivery of one A350 aircraft from 2023 to 2019, which means that the remaining eight A350s will be delivered to Finnair between 2018–2022. (page 35)


Finnair Annual Report 2017

Some reason the Google spread sheet of the A350 production hasn't updated the delivery schedule
Flying high and low
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:51 pm

teme82 wrote:
Nami wrote:
Looking at AY's annual report for 2017 it seems that they will take deliveries of the A350s in a tighter time frame.

The backbone of Finnair’s growth strategy is the renewal of its wide-body fleet. In 2017, the first stage of the fleet renewal was accomplished: now Finnair has 11 Airbus A350 aircraft. In 2018-2023, Finnair will receive a further eight A350s, and thus the entire wide-body fleet will grow from 19 to 27 aircraft by 2022. (page 12-13)

Finnair has decided to reschedule the delivery of one A350 aircraft from 2023 to 2019, which means that the remaining eight A350s will be delivered to Finnair between 2018–2022. (page 35)


Finnair Annual Report 2017

Some reason the Google spread sheet of the A350 production hasn't updated the delivery schedule

As far as I know, Finnair will receive one A350 this year and 2 in 2019, but I'm not sure about the rest 5 aircraft (probably 2 in 2020, 2 in 2021 and one in 2022?). According to these sources (CAPA / check-in.dk), those 8 aircraft will all have 336 seats.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:42 pm

Ethiopian Airlines flew to Stockholm and Oslo with Boeing 777-300ER today. Is there so much demand from Scandinavia to Ethiopia and vice versa?
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
Nami
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:09 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
teme82 wrote:
Nami wrote:
Looking at AY's annual report for 2017 it seems that they will take deliveries of the A350s in a tighter time frame.


Finnair Annual Report 2017

Some reason the Google spread sheet of the A350 production hasn't updated the delivery schedule

As far as I know, Finnair will receive one A350 this year and 2 in 2019, but I'm not sure about the rest 5 aircraft (probably 2 in 2020, 2 in 2021 and one in 2022?). According to these sources (CAPA / check-in.dk), those 8 aircraft will all have 336 seats.


I thought that the 336 configuration was only for a few aircraft which would be mostly flying leisure routes.

Does the CAPA article say that all of the rest will have 336 seats, i.e. they don't just mean the rest from the first patch of orders? Check-in.dk isn't really a good source for these kind of matters and CAPA is behind paywall.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:32 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Ethiopian Airlines flew to Stockholm and Oslo with Boeing 777-300ER today. Is there so much demand from Scandinavia to Ethiopia and vice versa?


Good question, I flew the ARN-OSL leg on the 788 last May and I'm not exaggerating when I say there were 20-30 pax on-board in total. Hopefully that was just a bad day, always fun to have 5th freedom options to fly airlines you can't catch everyday.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:55 pm

Nami wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
teme82 wrote:
Some reason the Google spread sheet of the A350 production hasn't updated the delivery schedule

As far as I know, Finnair will receive one A350 this year and 2 in 2019, but I'm not sure about the rest 5 aircraft (probably 2 in 2020, 2 in 2021 and one in 2022?). According to these sources (CAPA / check-in.dk), those 8 aircraft will all have 336 seats.


I thought that the 336 configuration was only for a few aircraft which would be mostly flying leisure routes.

Does the CAPA article say that all of the rest will have 336 seats, i.e. they don't just mean the rest from the first patch of orders? Check-in.dk isn't really a good source for these kind of matters and CAPA is behind paywall.

I understood AY will have all of the rest A350s with 336 seats. Also I hope so, and since the demand has grown much and since Finnair will not order A350-1000s, I think A350s with 336 seats would be a better option than A350s with 297 seats, despite the latter has more business class seats. At least Finnair should have more 336-seated A350s as AY uses those aircraft on routes to Seoul, Singapore, Bangkok, Phuket and Krabi, but demand is also very high on routes to Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Tokyo.

CAPA wrote on 20 July 2017:

Finnair to introduce new seat configuration on remaining A350-900s

Finnair plans to introduce new seating configurations for its remaining A350-900 orders to increase seat capacity from 297 to 336, a 13% increase. The carrier already received 10 A350-900s and has nine more on order. The new configuration reduces business class seats from 46 to 32, increases premium economy from 43 to 45, and increases economy class from 208 to 259. According to the CAPA Fleet Database, the remaining orders are scheduled for delivery from Aug-2017 to 2023.

(unfortunately, the rest is behind the paywall)

ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
ARN
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:37 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Ethiopian Airlines flew to Stockholm and Oslo with Boeing 777-300ER today. Is there so much demand from Scandinavia to Ethiopia and vice versa?


How do airlines schedule crews when there is a change of aircraft on a route? The 77W has to return to ADD the same day and the releaving crew, waiting to fly back to home base, is a 787 crew.
 
B747forever
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:48 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Ethiopian Airlines flew to Stockholm and Oslo with Boeing 777-300ER today. Is there so much demand from Scandinavia to Ethiopia and vice versa?


Over the last couple of weeks ET has sent a mix of 788/789/77L and now 77W to ARN/OSL. Doesnt seem to be any consistency with the equipment used.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
B747forever
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:51 pm

ARN wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Ethiopian Airlines flew to Stockholm and Oslo with Boeing 777-300ER today. Is there so much demand from Scandinavia to Ethiopia and vice versa?


How do airlines schedule crews when there is a change of aircraft on a route? The 77W has to return to ADD the same day and the releaving crew, waiting to fly back to home base, is a 787 crew.


There is an 11 hour long stop at OSL before the same aircraft makes the return trip to ARN/ADD. Maybe that is enough for rest and the same crew make the trip back home?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
Bostrom
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:50 pm

B747forever wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Ethiopian Airlines flew to Stockholm and Oslo with Boeing 777-300ER today. Is there so much demand from Scandinavia to Ethiopia and vice versa?


Over the last couple of weeks ET has sent a mix of 788/789/77L and now 77W to ARN/OSL. Doesnt seem to be any consistency with the equipment used.


I saw a 777 on the route before christmas as well. So my guess is that the aircraft used varies according to demand. And the demand is probably not only to Ethiopia, ET has a good network in Africa so for trips between Scandinavia and Subsaharan Africa, ET is not a bad choice.
 
Tristarsteve
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:07 am

When I worked at ARN it was always nice to see the Ethiopian parked near T2 when I got to work. I tried to decide what it was as I drove nearer, as it seemed to be different every day. B757 and B767 were commonest, then B787 and once in a while a B777. The crew stays the day and the same crew flies it back in the evening, so it doesn't matter what type it is.
 
armchairceonr1
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:48 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
I understood AY will have all of the rest A350s with 336 seats. Also I hope so, and since the demand has grown much and since Finnair will not order A350-1000s, I think A350s with 336 seats would be a better option than A350s with 297 seats, despite the latter has more business class seats. At least Finnair should have more 336-seated A350s as AY uses those aircraft on routes to Seoul, Singapore, Bangkok, Phuket and Krabi, but demand is also very high on routes to Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Tokyo.

Better option for who? AY changed seat configuration only because they cannot fill 46 business seats for reasonable price at all their routes. And if you read their annual report you can see that they haven't decided seat configuration yet for incoming planes. So CAPA cannot know it either.
 
Someone83
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:44 pm

The wet leased Air Nostrum CRJ-1000 for SAS based at CPH, is now in place in a hybrid SAS livery

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8861132
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:31 pm

Someone83 wrote:
The wet leased Air Nostrum CRJ-1000 for SAS based at CPH, is now in place in a hybrid SAS livery

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8861132


Wow, they should have gone for a retro livery with this one! The SAS text on the tail already looks retro. I know no CRJs operated in that livery, but it would have been nice anyway.
 
Nami
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:09 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I saw a headline saying the PSO route between Helsinki and Savonlinna will change to a new airline. I think at the moment Budapest Aircraft Service are currently operating the flights for a separate marketing company.

Anyone know more about the details of when the airline change will happen and who the new airline will be ?


Maavoima Oy, the company that won the PSO bidding for 2018-2020 subcontracts the airlines but hasn't commented why BASe Airlines stopped flying on the route a bit over a week ago. For this past week RAF-Avia has been operating through Sprint Air which flies a Saab 340A aircraft. BASe Airlines and RAF-Avia are the two airlines mentioned in the contract between the state and Savonlinna and Maavoima Oy.

During winter vacation the route will be halted for two weeks as planned but the question is open as to whether it will be RAF-Avia or BASe Airlines continuing after that. Negotiations are underway.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:48 am

Iran Air's planned Malmö service in S18 will be operated with Airbus A330-200, instead of A300-600R. So, Iran Air flights to ARN, GOT and MMX will be all flown with A330s. (Routesonline)
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
Someone83
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:09 am

JetBuddy wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
The wet leased Air Nostrum CRJ-1000 for SAS based at CPH, is now in place in a hybrid SAS livery

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8861132


Wow, they should have gone for a retro livery with this one! The SAS text on the tail already looks retro. I know no CRJs operated in that livery, but it would have been nice anyway.


I assume the reason is that all the SAS markings here are stickers and not paint ;)
 
Someone83
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:27 pm

LN-RPA has left the SAS fleet, so only 10 -600s left in the fleet

Boeing 737 -683 18290 100 LN-RPA SAS ferried 19feb18 OSL-DGX, for part-out & scrap ex N5002K
 
Nami
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:42 pm

Some of the more interesting words from interview with AY's CCO:

This winter, the airline introduced flights from Gatwick, operating twice a week to Ivalo, home to Europe’s most northerly ski resort; together with a weekly flight to Kittila, about 90 miles south as the sleigh (or Airbus) flies. Both places are synonymous with Christmas-themed tourism and their popularity means Finnair has already confirmed the flights’ continuation next winter.

The UK connections are part of a 15% Lapland capacity increase that will see Finnair offer 482,000 seats there in 2018-19, either direct or as an hour’s flight from Helsinki.

---

Further ahead, there may be scope for year-round flights from the UK. The ski season, for example, stretches from late October to mid-May and then there is a period when the sun does not set.

“The focus is to develop year-round tourism with the Midnight Sun. Accommodation is very affordable in summer,” Jarvinen adds.


As well as the London connection, Finnair serves Manchester twice daily and Edinburgh nine times a week. There is more to come – Edinburgh goes year-round from March and Jarvinen says double daily from the Scottish capital is a target, and Birmingham “is definitely on our radar”.


The state-owned airline exceeded 12 million passengers last year, a million more than in 2016 and saw “record profifts”. However, there are limits: Finnair grew capacity by 9% last year and this year will add 15%, which even Jarvinen admits is not sustainable. “Normal market growth is 4-5%. You can’t keep on doing that forever, but we strongly believe there is market growth, so we are comfortable with this.”


Looking further ahead, Jarvinen has broader horizons, believing that geography is in Finnair’s favour even when it comes to flights to North America.

“This is the shortest route from the Middle East to North America, it goes over Finland and the Nordic region, so there is potential in the future.”

---

The spanner in the works is, of course, the Gulf carriers. Jarvinen shows a map with what the airline refers to as the Gulf line, a gentle downward curve across the globe that straddles the Middle East hubs. Below it is their territory, so Finnair will not, for example, cross into Africa any time soon.

“Our route planning strategy is very much focused on anything above that line,” he says.


TTG 19.2.2018: Finnair’s growth ambitions
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:36 pm

Someone83 wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
The wet leased Air Nostrum CRJ-1000 for SAS based at CPH, is now in place in a hybrid SAS livery

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8861132


Wow, they should have gone for a retro livery with this one! The SAS text on the tail already looks retro. I know no CRJs operated in that livery, but it would have been nice anyway.


I assume the reason is that all the SAS markings here are stickers and not paint ;)


Doesn't matter! Just add more stickers! Retro stickers. They've already plastered them all over the plane anyway.
 
B747forever
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:51 pm

Regarding AY's expansion, from reading here it seems that SFO has been a success. I guess MIA must also meet their expectations as they continue to operate it. When and to where will AY next expand in the US? Would love to see them at LAX.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:47 pm

Nami wrote:
Some of the more interesting words from interview with AY's CCO:

This winter, the airline introduced flights from Gatwick, operating twice a week to Ivalo, home to Europe’s most northerly ski resort; together with a weekly flight to Kittila, about 90 miles south as the sleigh (or Airbus) flies. Both places are synonymous with Christmas-themed tourism and their popularity means Finnair has already confirmed the flights’ continuation next winter.

The UK connections are part of a 15% Lapland capacity increase that will see Finnair offer 482,000 seats there in 2018-19, either direct or as an hour’s flight from Helsinki.

---

Further ahead, there may be scope for year-round flights from the UK. The ski season, for example, stretches from late October to mid-May and then there is a period when the sun does not set.

“The focus is to develop year-round tourism with the Midnight Sun. Accommodation is very affordable in summer,” Jarvinen adds.


As well as the London connection, Finnair serves Manchester twice daily and Edinburgh nine times a week. There is more to come – Edinburgh goes year-round from March and Jarvinen says double daily from the Scottish capital is a target, and Birmingham “is definitely on our radar”.


The state-owned airline exceeded 12 million passengers last year, a million more than in 2016 and saw “record profifts”. However, there are limits: Finnair grew capacity by 9% last year and this year will add 15%, which even Jarvinen admits is not sustainable. “Normal market growth is 4-5%. You can’t keep on doing that forever, but we strongly believe there is market growth, so we are comfortable with this.”


Looking further ahead, Jarvinen has broader horizons, believing that geography is in Finnair’s favour even when it comes to flights to North America.

“This is the shortest route from the Middle East to North America, it goes over Finland and the Nordic region, so there is potential in the future.”

---

The spanner in the works is, of course, the Gulf carriers. Jarvinen shows a map with what the airline refers to as the Gulf line, a gentle downward curve across the globe that straddles the Middle East hubs. Below it is their territory, so Finnair will not, for example, cross into Africa any time soon.

“Our route planning strategy is very much focused on anything above that line,” he says.


TTG 19.2.2018: Finnair’s growth ambitions

I would love to see more flights to the Middle East and North America. Also, I'm really looking forward to this year if Finnair will grow this year more than last year.

B747forever wrote:
Regarding AY's expansion, from reading here it seems that SFO has been a success. I guess MIA must also meet their expectations as they continue to operate it. When and to where will AY next expand in the US? Would love to see them at LAX.

Yes, HEL-SFO was Finnair's one of the best performing routes last year. Probably we'll see more frequencies in the future. I'm pretty sure LAX is AY's next US destination, or BOS.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
Blerg
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:35 pm

Could IKA work for Finnair? Does it make sense to offer connections to North America via Helsinki?
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:56 pm

Blerg wrote:
Could IKA work for Finnair? Does it make sense to offer connections to North America via Helsinki?

I think IKA could work for Finnair. As far as I know, IKA doesn't have any direct routes to North America. I think Amman is another airport that could work for Finnair due to Oneworld connections, even though it has direct routes to New York-JFK and Detroit. In addition, I would like to see Finnair flights to Abu Dhabi, Muscat, Doha (together with QR), Bahrain (AY has served Bahrain previously), Riyadh and Jeddah, but probably not going to happen. There are only a few cities in the ME that AY could serve, but there are much more possibilities in North America.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:26 am

QuawerAir wrote:
Probably we'll see more frequencies in the future. I'm pretty sure LAX is AY's next US destination, or BOS.

LAX will probably be the next airport. I would love BOS to become a destination, but unlikely considering they've tried it and failed.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:58 am

A flight from Helsinki to Japan has a natural feed from large areas of populated and wealthy western Europe. Helsinki-Tehran or Helsinki-Abu Dhabi has a European feed really only from Finland and Sweden. This means a Helsinki-Tehran route has to survive entirely on traffic between Iran and NYC, Finland and Sweden - anywhere else and there is too much travel in the wrong direction. Not impossible to make this work, but geography means Finnair would have a much bigger challenge in making IKA profitable.

Doha might work for connections to Africa and smaller cities in south Asia if Qatar Air lack sufficient capacity. Dubai is already served seasonally for sun starved Finns wanting a holiday. Maybe Muscat might see seasonal leisure demand eventually. Jeddah-Helsinki is probably best served by charters catering to pilgrims. Forget about seeing Finnair in Abu Dhabi or Bahrain for the time being - definitely not going to happen

Regarding the USA, Helsinki-Los Angeles would be very ambitious given the relative lack of feed traffic at either end of the route - remember that Finland has low population density. If Finnair want to boost the USA perhaps raising Chicago to year round might be a candidate instead ?
 
Nami
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:14 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Forget about seeing Finnair in Abu Dhabi or Bahrain for the time being - definitely not going to happen

Regarding the USA, Helsinki-Los Angeles would be very ambitious given the relative lack of feed traffic at either end of the route - remember that Finland has low population density. If Finnair want to boost the USA perhaps raising Chicago to year round might be a candidate instead ?


This certain someone has a bit of a habit listing unrealistic destinations. None of the ones mentioned would work in reality. It's best not to overanalyze what the CCO said, the "potential" in the region probably exists but is very far in the future and depends on so many other things. It's also right in the backyard of TK.

Perhaps where AY also sees potential is making Dubai a year-round destination as EK happily seems to be staying away from HEL for the time being. Both AY's and DY's flights seem to be very full at this time of the year during winter holidays but I could imagine it working in the summer season as well, especially considering it can be flown with a narrow-body. However AY is better off utilizing those aircraft in Europe during the summer.

When it comes to LAX it sounds more like a route for DY if they ever decide to start long-haul ops from HEL. I can't see AY adding any new US destinations for now but instead, like you said, make existing ones year-round or add frequencies. For example this was done for ORD which is going to be daily in S18.

Skift: You’re expanding in the United States, with a new seasonal route to San Francisco. What opportunity do you see? Might you add more flights?

Vauramo: I’m sure there are more things out there, but of course we’ve increased recently quite a bit. We’ve added Chicago a few years back. We’ve added frequencies to Chicago. New York we’ve had for many, many years. We have Miami, and now San Francisco. For the time being, I think we will just digest these ones and try to make them year-round. That should be the next phase.

Skift 19.6.2017
 
YIMBY
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:21 am

QuawerAir wrote:
I would love to see more flights to the Middle East and North America. Also, I'm really looking forward to this year if Finnair will grow this year more than last year.


HEL is certainly very well located to serve as a hub between Middle East and North America, as well as South Asia and North America. Another advantage is the good infrastructure: there is a lot of landing slots and gate space around noon time.

AY does, however face major challenges:
- ARN, OSL, LED, RIX, TLL etc are almost as well located, for some routes even better, though each of them has limitations, some of which rather serious
- O/D traffic is almost non-existent, so it relies on transfer passengers (only near Europe makes sense as short haul feed)
- these are very low yield destinations and AY is not the most cost efficient for the masses, neither most luxurious for the princes
- the scheduling is complicated, as neither direction fits well on 24 h rotation. The average flight times to ME are between 4 and 6 hours, India between 7 and 9 hours, NA between 8 and 11 hours, and they vary even more with bad weather or political deroutes. Arrivals/departures from ME might be at deepest night: is that possible? No doubt that price sensitive passengers will tolerate several hours in HEL, business travellers maybe not.
- need new hardware and new pilots, so takes years (existing narrow-bodies are usable for ME destinations. For Northeast US and India need some MOMish airliner)
- huge risks as political turmoil may make routes inoperable
 
Kikko19
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:16 am

YIMBY wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
I would love to see more flights to the Middle East and North America. Also, I'm really looking forward to this year if Finnair will grow this year more than last year.


HEL is certainly very well located to serve as a hub between Middle East and North America, as well as South Asia and North America. Another advantage is the good infrastructure: there is a lot of landing slots and gate space around noon time.

AY does, however face major challenges:
- ARN, OSL, LED, RIX, TLL etc are almost as well located, for some routes even better, though each of them has limitations, some of which rather serious
- O/D traffic is almost non-existent, so it relies on transfer passengers (only near Europe makes sense as short haul feed)
- these are very low yield destinations and AY is not the most cost efficient for the masses, neither most luxurious for the princes
- the scheduling is complicated, as neither direction fits well on 24 h rotation. The average flight times to ME are between 4 and 6 hours, India between 7 and 9 hours, NA between 8 and 11 hours, and they vary even more with bad weather or political deroutes. Arrivals/departures from ME might be at deepest night: is that possible? No doubt that price sensitive passengers will tolerate several hours in HEL, business travellers maybe not.
- need new hardware and new pilots, so takes years (existing narrow-bodies are usable for ME destinations. For Northeast US and India need some MOMish airliner)
- huge risks as political turmoil may make routes inoperable

ME doesn't make sense to AY (except for holidays purposes) sooner or later the market will be flooded by flydubai or anybody using LR 321/737 so feeding doesn't as well make sense. I also see eventually QR flying to TLL/RIX to feed their own hubs (BT feed EY already).
 
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HELyes
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:32 am

Finnair actually has some history in the Middle East, they even served Baghdad for a while, the service was axed in 1982 when the Iran-Iraq war started. Back then the Finnish construction industry was busy in the area.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:03 am

Kikko19 wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
I would love to see more flights to the Middle East and North America. Also, I'm really looking forward to this year if Finnair will grow this year more than last year.


HEL is certainly very well located to serve as a hub between Middle East and North America, as well as South Asia and North America. Another advantage is the good infrastructure: there is a lot of landing slots and gate space around noon time.

AY does, however face major challenges:
- ARN, OSL, LED, RIX, TLL etc are almost as well located, for some routes even better, though each of them has limitations, some of which rather serious
- O/D traffic is almost non-existent, so it relies on transfer passengers (only near Europe makes sense as short haul feed)
- these are very low yield destinations and AY is not the most cost efficient for the masses, neither most luxurious for the princes
- the scheduling is complicated, as neither direction fits well on 24 h rotation. The average flight times to ME are between 4 and 6 hours, India between 7 and 9 hours, NA between 8 and 11 hours, and they vary even more with bad weather or political deroutes. Arrivals/departures from ME might be at deepest night: is that possible? No doubt that price sensitive passengers will tolerate several hours in HEL, business travellers maybe not.
- need new hardware and new pilots, so takes years (existing narrow-bodies are usable for ME destinations. For Northeast US and India need some MOMish airliner)
- huge risks as political turmoil may make routes inoperable

ME doesn't make sense to AY (except for holidays purposes) sooner or later the market will be flooded by flydubai or anybody using LR 321/737 so feeding doesn't as well make sense. I also see eventually QR flying to TLL/RIX to feed their own hubs (BT feed EY already).

I think North America-India is a better option for AY than the ME-North America. However, India is also a pretty hard market since ME3 airlines have a huge network that includes plenty of destinations in India and North America. But the Indian market is growing and more people fly to/from India. Also, India has much bigger population than the Middle East. In the Middle East, probably Amman is the only one that could really work for AY (Dubai and Tel Aviv as well), but I think in India Mumbai, Bangalore and Chennai could work for AY in the future if not already now.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
armchairceonr1
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:41 am

I think that North America-ME/India connection traffic is only sweet daydream. AY doesn't have any chance to compete with Emirates or Qatar.
 
berari
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:10 pm

B747forever wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Ethiopian Airlines flew to Stockholm and Oslo with Boeing 777-300ER today. Is there so much demand from Scandinavia to Ethiopia and vice versa?


Over the last couple of weeks ET has sent a mix of 788/789/77L and now 77W to ARN/OSL. Doesnt seem to be any consistency with the equipment used.


One thing Ethiopian is known for is lack of consistency with their aircraft. It appears that they schedule an aircraft that is specific to the mission.
 
YIMBY
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:19 pm

armchairceonr1 wrote:
I think that North America-ME/India connection traffic is only sweet daydream. AY doesn't have any chance to compete with Emirates or Qatar.


AY may not have chance and courage but North European airlines generally have chance, as the intermediate stop saves quite a lot of fuel. Cost conscious travellers would thus take that option. Moreover, for many ME destinations a stop in Doha etc is backtracking or significant deviation. ME3 prosper only because the neighbouring countries lack necessary political infrastructures.

Another issue is which airline will have all the permits to fly and who needs visas for the transit in the hub. And who dares to take the political risk.
 
okay
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:50 pm

YIMBY wrote:
armchairceonr1 wrote:
I think that North America-ME/India connection traffic is only sweet daydream. AY doesn't have any chance to compete with Emirates or Qatar.


AY may not have chance and courage but North European airlines generally have chance, as the intermediate stop saves quite a lot of fuel. Cost conscious travellers would thus take that option. Moreover, for many ME destinations a stop in Doha etc is backtracking or significant deviation. ME3 prosper only because the neighbouring countries lack necessary political infrastructures.

Another issue is which airline will have all the permits to fly and who needs visas for the transit in the hub. And who dares to take the political risk.

And who might this or these North European airlines be, in your opinion?
 
YIMBY
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:23 pm

okay wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
armchairceonr1 wrote:
I think that North America-ME/India connection traffic is only sweet daydream. AY doesn't have any chance to compete with Emirates or Qatar.


AY may not have chance and courage but North European airlines generally have chance, as the intermediate stop saves quite a lot of fuel. Cost conscious travellers would thus take that option. Moreover, for many ME destinations a stop in Doha etc is backtracking or significant deviation. ME3 prosper only because the neighbouring countries lack necessary political infrastructures.

Another issue is which airline will have all the permits to fly and who needs visas for the transit in the hub. And who dares to take the political risk.

And who might this or these North European airlines be, in your opinion?


IMO, first of all Norwegian, if it survives (I am afraid not but that is another issue). Then SK which has more O/D demand than AY, but it has to clear its messes first. And I am not claiming that AY is impossible either.
LH and BA already do their fair share and those are to be challenged.
Russian airlines will not be able to compete in a near future for political reasons, though otherwise will be well positioned.

(Recent news, however, make me very sceptic for any airline to fly to, from or over ME, so this discussion may not be very actual.)
 
okay
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:40 pm

So you base your argumentation of SK being the better option to do US/ME traffic because there is more O/D demand for SK... You lost me there. And you say DY is a better option, though they are diving so deep at the moment it can literally go bust any moment. At least you admit that.

Anyway, for the US/ME traffic, any airline at the moment would have trouble challenging the ME3, regardless of origins. As mentioned before, US/India makes much more sense. And yes, I think AY is by far best equipped for that race up in the North.
 
Someone83
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:59 am

Widerøe and KLM has signed a codeshare agreement, meaning KLM will put their flight number on the following Widerøe flight on domestic Norwegian routes:

Oslo to: Florø, Ørsta/Volda, Leknes, Svolvær, Stokmarknes and Mo i Rana
Bergen to: Tromsø, Bodø, Kristiansund, Molde, Ålesund and Florø
Trondheim to: Tromsø, Kristiansund and Harstad/Narvik
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:13 am

On 9 June 2018, Finnair opens new 2x weekly year-round service from HEL to Minsk. Will be operated with Embraer E190. Now that AY will fly on this route, I wonder if Belavia will end operating on this route at some point since I don't think there's a huge demand for flights to Belarus.

Lentoposti (in Finnish)
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
armchairceonr1
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:37 am

QuawerAir wrote:
On 9 June 2018, Finnair opens new 2x weekly year-round service from HEL to Minsk. Will be operated with Embraer E190. Now that AY will fly on this route, I wonder if Belavia will end operating on this route at some point since I don't think there's a huge demand for flights to Belarus.

Lentoposti (in Finnish)

AY cooperate and also codeshare with Belavia in this route, and this adds frequency up to 5 per week. (Finnair x 2, Belavia x 2-3)
 
Nami
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:00 am

AY also extends ORD and SFO seasons a bit.

Finnair is extending the operating period for both its Chicago and San Francisco routes during the upcoming fall. The Helsinki-Chicago route will be extended until December 3 with two weekly flights. Originally, the route was set to operate from April 19 until October 27.
---
The Helsinki-San Francisco route will now be extended until December 5 with two weekly frequencies. Originally, the route was to be operated from May 3 until September 27.


https://company.finnair.com/en/media/al ... id=2826231
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:17 pm

More information about Finnair's narrow-body fleet renewal:

Finnair considers narrowbody replacement plans

Finnair has begun internal evaluations for a 20- to 30-aircraft narrowbody order, which would be used to replace and grow its existing fleet of Airbus A320 family aircraft. Responding to a question from ATW, Finnair CEO Pekka Vauramo said internal discussions about the order will be completed in 2018. He said Finnair operates around 30 Airbus narrowbodies, around 18 of which are older aircraft, produced around 16 years ago.

While these aircraft “still have some good years of operation left,” he said Finnair is ultimately looking to modernize the fleet and secure further aircraft for growth. Vauramo estimated the need as “at least 20 aircraft” for replacements, with the remainder depending on Finnair’s growth ambitions beyond 2023. He tentatively placed the total requirement at 20-30 aircraft and said this is a “sizeable order” from Finnair’s perspective. The initial analysis will be done “sometime this year,” but Vauramo said Finnair must know the specification of the tender by the end of the year before commercial negotiations can begin.

Vauramo was not immediately able to comment on possible timings for the order, or deliveries, as these will be established as part of the internal work.

[...]



atwonline.com
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
Someone83
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:38 pm

Norwegian has taken delivery of their last 737-800 on order
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:56 pm

98,176 (+19.3%) passengers on flew on Helsinki - New Delhi route in 2017. Apparently, Air India's CPH and ARN route launches didn't affect the passenger numbers on HEL-DEL route last year, at least not much.

Also, more growth expected this year: AY now flies 6x weekly (1 flight more compared to same period last year), in S18 4x weekly (+1 flight) and in W18 daily (+1).

Source
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
Next flight: HEL-FRA-JFK | LH | A321, 748
 
Oykie
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Re: Nordic aviation - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:33 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian has taken delivery of their last 737-800 on order


According to Boeing order and deliveries this will be their number 100 delivered directly from Boeing. Is this correct?
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