MooLor
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:28 pm

Ellofiend wrote:
MooLor wrote:
Ellofiend wrote:
Any news on the final TG 744 flight to Sydney?


I have heard nothing other than the recent cocktail party gossip commented on here. That suggested March / April demise of the 744. A dummy booking for December 2018 still shows 744.

TG's final five (of 12) A359 are in various stages of production, from 'undergoing final assembly' to 'one test flight completed'. They will be delivered this year, so it is a matter of where those are allocated post delivery I guess.
https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbproduction/production-list

A.Net A350 production and delivery thread here: http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382499

Are you hoping the final TG 744 to SYD is sooner or later? I have four flights on the route this year, am in two minds whether or not I want any to be on the A350. I have previously flown two medium sectors on A350; nice aircraft but nothing special IMO. An evolution of the A330. The 744 however is special - probably because I only have a few rides left on it.


Thankyou for the info, I am hoping the TG744 stay's on the route as long as possible as I have never flown on a 744 and I would love to do so on an airline other than Qantas because they will have their's until 2023-5 so I have plenty of time to catch them and also because I am only 14 and its harder to fund travel when you are young and no-one in your family has interest in aviation so I would have to go by my self. I would probably fly the afternoon flight to BKK, stay at the airport Hotel overnight then leave for the morning flight back to sydney. Would only spend about 7 hours in BKK however it is quite costly but 747 flights these days are priceless.


Ah, we're on the same page then - long live TG 744 into SYD! :smile: And the family thing - you haven't seen eye-rolling until you've seen my wife when I suggest we drop in to the airport on the way past "to watch the planes land". :D

At your age I used to lay in the grass as close as I could get to the MKY (Mackay Qld) runway threshold and let the incoming DC-9s scare the crap out of me. :smile:

TG frequently have pretty good specials - around $730 rtn. (sign up to their email.) They had a special to Vienna recently for very little more than that, that would get you on a 744 + a bit more adventure. Although you are going to have to fly in school holidays, when special fares are unlikely. So you might have to save for a QF flight in the next few years.

Good luck with it!
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:48 pm

sq256 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
BITRE October 2017 Stats have just been released
Whilst we can't compare the load factors between CX, QF and VA on MEL only, it certainly isn't a strong performance by VA for a 5-6month old route.


Although VA's other numbers eg LAX aren't bad I still would like to see VA
1. exit the international market entirely and focus purely on domestic, based on
2. being bought by SQ and having SQ run 5th freedom flights between Australia and the USA, and
3. as part of the SQ buyout, have VA join Star Alliance

Virgin could focus on keeping the domestic pressure on QF and as a Star Alliance member they'd be a much more attractive alternative to QF, while SQ would definitely be competitive on the US routes.


VA has hostilities with NZ (basically frenemies) and UA for them to join Star at this point. Also, SQ are being coy over their future in VA whether if they are going to exit the VA shareholding.

Keep in mind NZ booted VA out of the Star lounge in LAX, and VA retaliated by removing points from non Trans-Tasman NZ operated flights.

It's increasingly more likely VA will be leaning towards Skyteam with increased involvement by DL in LAX & other partners. Worst case scenario there is that VA basically becomes a Skyteam feeder (being AU with NZ and possibly only SYD-LAX being the only international as part of the DL JV), should Hainan Group exit (with pressure from the Chinese government, therefore ending HKG) and EY and SQ both leave.

Although never say never, but I highly doubt that VA will ever join an alliance at this point. As I mentioned before joining an alliance involves an upward of 8-9 digit figure USD to get everything set up and pay for the joining fee; this figure does not change much whether you're joining *A, *S or OW.

In regarding with VA/DL, do they increase any cooperation at all? I haven't seen any increased codeshare or such, while after NZ booted them out of LAX *A lounge they went to EY one instead. And I believe they're using EY one in both SYD/MEL for their LAX flight as well (although I may be wrong on this one).

Michael
 
sq256
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:36 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
sq256 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:

Although VA's other numbers eg LAX aren't bad I still would like to see VA
1. exit the international market entirely and focus purely on domestic, based on
2. being bought by SQ and having SQ run 5th freedom flights between Australia and the USA, and
3. as part of the SQ buyout, have VA join Star Alliance

Virgin could focus on keeping the domestic pressure on QF and as a Star Alliance member they'd be a much more attractive alternative to QF, while SQ would definitely be competitive on the US routes.


VA has hostilities with NZ (basically frenemies) and UA for them to join Star at this point. Also, SQ are being coy over their future in VA whether if they are going to exit the VA shareholding.

Keep in mind NZ booted VA out of the Star lounge in LAX, and VA retaliated by removing points from non Trans-Tasman NZ operated flights.

It's increasingly more likely VA will be leaning towards Skyteam with increased involvement by DL in LAX & other partners. Worst case scenario there is that VA basically becomes a Skyteam feeder (being AU with NZ and possibly only SYD-LAX being the only international as part of the DL JV), should Hainan Group exit (with pressure from the Chinese government, therefore ending HKG) and EY and SQ both leave.

Although never say never, but I highly doubt that VA will ever join an alliance at this point. As I mentioned before joining an alliance involves an upward of 8-9 digit figure USD to get everything set up and pay for the joining fee; this figure does not change much whether you're joining *A, *S or OW.

In regarding with VA/DL, do they increase any cooperation at all? I haven't seen any increased codeshare or such, while after NZ booted them out of LAX *A lounge they went to EY one instead. And I believe they're using EY one in both SYD/MEL for their LAX flight as well (although I may be wrong on this one).

Michael


VA moved their check in desks from T3 to DL’s new T2 facilities in LAX with buses provided from there to TBIT. VA was initially going to co-locate entirely to T2 but has held off that for now as DL is still refurbishing T2.

VA uses the Skyteam lounge (operated by Plaza Premium) in SYD for flights to LAX by DL or VA.
 
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mariner
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:54 pm

325i wrote:
Greetings All, after reading the comments about VA v ZK or the other way about, I suspect that the board of VA have more inside knowledge of what ZK did to Ansett. There have been numerous rumours eg, they milked the coffers of Ansett for their own benefit! Would not enter into ant financial undertaking to keep the 767's airworthy!


The Ansett saga was a cock-up all round, no one comes out of it well, although Richard Murdoch came out considerably richer than he was before he sold the airline. He can probably be considered the bad bloke of the piece - he made out like a bandit.

It's all been picked over many times, and the attitudes to it usually depend on whether you are a Kiwi or an Aussie. Here are a couple of articles:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/aviation/news ... tid=219209

"Hey Blue, who screwed who?

https://www.crikey.com.au/2002/09/08/sh ... w-zealand/

"Should Rupert accept another $40 million from Air New Zealand?

But I don't think any of this had much, if anything, to do with the blue between Luxon and Borghetti at Virgin Australia - who were happy enough to accept Kiwi money when NZ started buying Virgin shares.

You've probably worked out that NZ is the two letter code for Air NZ - ZK is the code for Great Lakes airlines, in the US.

mariner
Last edited by mariner on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
aeternum nauta
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:58 pm

Could a super efficient 747-8 be a viable answer for project sunrise?
CRJ200, Q400, E175, E195, MD88, MD90, A320, A332, A380, B717, B734, B738, B739, B752, B762, B763, B744, B744ER
 
325i
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:30 am

Hi Mariner, thank you for your correction but I have always assumed that ZK was the country Cade for ANZ .however aside from my mistake we all knew who I was referring to. Cheers 325i
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:36 am

325i wrote:
Speculation as to the deparure of JB is entirely that, speculation.I do note that there are some here that are not impressed with his management style,perhaps disgruntled ex DJ/VA employees! Give the guy a break , oh and I am not a relative of his I just believe in giving a person some respect for what is not the easiest of tasks in the aviation industry.
That's my 2 bobs worth for now, have a great day, Cheers 325 I.


You have got to be kidding. JB does not need to be given a break, he needs to be given the boot. He has been CEO at VA for over 7 years now and everyone is still waiting for him to announce a profit. If this was any other CEO is other company whether it was Qantas, Westpac, Woolworths, Dominos etc they would have been sacked a long time ago. At the end of the day results are expected and he has failed with this. There is a reason why Alan Joyce was chosen over JB at QF and that's because JB is not leadership material. One thing that sticks out the most is he fails to show any accountability, the Bali fiasco a year ago is a perfect example and is quiet quick to blame everyone but themselves, but I guess that's the typical Virgin line along with they are very good talking up new things but fail to deliver. Other users here which criticise him are not ex DJ/VA workers, they have every reason to criticise because when one keeps promising we are going to make a profit this year and year after year the opposite happens well you open yourself up for criticism.
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:47 am

Ellofiend wrote:
MooLor wrote:
Ellofiend wrote:
Any news on the final TG 744 flight to Sydney?


I have heard nothing other than the recent cocktail party gossip commented on here. That suggested March / April demise of the 744. A dummy booking for December 2018 still shows 744.

TG's final five (of 12) A359 are in various stages of production, from 'undergoing final assembly' to 'one test flight completed'. They will be delivered this year, so it is a matter of where those are allocated post delivery I guess.
https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbproduction/production-list

A.Net A350 production and delivery thread here: http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382499

Are you hoping the final TG 744 to SYD is sooner or later? I have four flights on the route this year, am in two minds whether or not I want any to be on the A350. I have previously flown two medium sectors on A350; nice aircraft but nothing special IMO. An evolution of the A330. The 744 however is special - probably because I only have a few rides left on it.


Thankyou for the info, I am hoping the TG744 stay's on the route as long as possible as I have never flown on a 744 and I would love to do so on an airline other than Qantas because they will have their's until 2023-5 so I have plenty of time to catch them and also because I am only 14 and its harder to fund travel when you are young and no-one in your family has interest in aviation so I would have to go by my self. I would probably fly the afternoon flight to BKK, stay at the airport Hotel overnight then leave for the morning flight back to sydney. Would only spend about 7 hours in BKK however it is quite costly but 747 flights these days are priceless. Would rather not have the A359 as it is something that will be around for 20 + years


Im not sure how reliable the source but appears the A350’s will be deployed on the BKK-SYD route increasing frequency to double daily.

https://blueswandaily.com/thai-airways- ... in-1h2018/

Mr Krittaphon said Thai Airways intends to introduce three additional frequencies to Sydney as the A350 is introduced on the route, resulting in a double daily flight. Thai Airways will likely transition Bangkok-Sydney route from the 747-400 to A350 at the beginning of the next southern summer season in late Mar-2018.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:18 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Regarding rumours of CX for CBR

CX has put to bed those rumours, saying that it does not have plans to serve CBR.

See: https://blueswandaily.com/cathay-pacifi ... -services/.

Cheers,

C.
 
Ellofiend
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:25 am

EK413 wrote:
Ellofiend wrote:
MooLor wrote:
Im not sure how reliable the source but appears the A350’s will be deployed on the BKK-SYD route increasing frequency to double daily.

https://blueswandaily.com/thai-airways- ... in-1h2018/

Mr Krittaphon said Thai Airways intends to introduce three additional frequencies to Sydney as the A350 is introduced on the route, resulting in a double daily flight. Thai Airways will likely transition Bangkok-Sydney route from the 747-400 to A350 at the beginning of the next southern summer season in late Mar-2018.

EK413


Thankyou for this information, I had heard March as well. But when you say three additional routes, you also said that it would result in a double daily flight, wouldn't that make it a 5 times daily flight route. was not sure if they would go from 2 744's straight to 3 A359's. Would they do one B744 and one A359 one day and then one B744 2 A359's the next week and then 3 A359's a week later?
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:31 am

Ellofiend wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Ellofiend wrote:


Thankyou for this information, I had heard March as well. But when you say three additional routes, you also said that it would result in a double daily flight, wouldn't that make it a 5 times daily flight route. was not sure if they would go from 2 744's straight to 3 A359's. Would they do one B744 and one A359 one day and then one B744 2 A359's the next week and then 3 A359's a week later?


The frequency is currently 11 x weekly the A350 will take it to 14 x weekly.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:35 am

Ellofiend wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Ellofiend wrote:


Thankyou for this information, I had heard March as well. But when you say three additional routes, you also said that it would result in a double daily flight, wouldn't that make it a 5 times daily flight route. was not sure if they would go from 2 744's straight to 3 A359's. Would they do one B744 and one A359 one day and then one B744 2 A359's the next week and then 3 A359's a week later?


The plan is to serve SYD 14 weekly or double daily with the A359 currently it’s generally 11 weekly 744’s. Exactly when this happens is not yet loaded in the schedules as others have said, TG are notorious for changing aircraft with different configurations. MEL used to be a scheduled 77W, but the 772A, 773 and 77E which all have older products, the A333 has appeared at MEL since the A359 started flying it which has an older product, no consistency.
 
Ellofiend
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:55 am

Thankyou for clearing that up, my mistake
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:07 am

Re BNE... I've long questioned the AC route (and the set up of their admin ops in AU) and still suspect the new MEL-YVR service will either reduce or replace BNE, but hope to be proven wrong.
VA BNE-POM/HIR... only freight is making these flights break even/profitable. And VA's NZ flights all suffer from no front end business- they have publically admitted this with all the corp traffic going to NZ/QF.
EY mulled double daily BNE a few months ago and decided against it. Their BNE Sales staff have since been cut from 5 to 2.
SQ 4x daily- the joke around the industry is SQ could barely fill 3x/day so 4x/day outside peak season will sure be interesting- guess there's nowhere else to send the planes. Ditto EK's new 3rd daily flight... hmmm...
MH back in June: their business will depend almost entirely on web bookings to Vietnam/India/LHR- agents here are still wary of them. Outside peak season there is almost no traffic to Malaysia.
HU 2x/week BNE-SZX flight continues to amaze me- how long will it last?
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:22 am

sq256 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
sq256 wrote:

VA has hostilities with NZ (basically frenemies) and UA for them to join Star at this point. Also, SQ are being coy over their future in VA whether if they are going to exit the VA shareholding.

Keep in mind NZ booted VA out of the Star lounge in LAX, and VA retaliated by removing points from non Trans-Tasman NZ operated flights.

It's increasingly more likely VA will be leaning towards Skyteam with increased involvement by DL in LAX & other partners. Worst case scenario there is that VA basically becomes a Skyteam feeder (being AU with NZ and possibly only SYD-LAX being the only international as part of the DL JV), should Hainan Group exit (with pressure from the Chinese government, therefore ending HKG) and EY and SQ both leave.

Although never say never, but I highly doubt that VA will ever join an alliance at this point. As I mentioned before joining an alliance involves an upward of 8-9 digit figure USD to get everything set up and pay for the joining fee; this figure does not change much whether you're joining *A, *S or OW.

In regarding with VA/DL, do they increase any cooperation at all? I haven't seen any increased codeshare or such, while after NZ booted them out of LAX *A lounge they went to EY one instead. And I believe they're using EY one in both SYD/MEL for their LAX flight as well (although I may be wrong on this one).

Michael


VA moved their check in desks from T3 to DL’s new T2 facilities in LAX with buses provided from there to TBIT. VA was initially going to co-locate entirely to T2 but has held off that for now as DL is still refurbishing T2.

VA uses the Skyteam lounge (operated by Plaza Premium) in SYD for flights to LAX by DL or VA.


VA's website advises that for VA operated flights SYD-LAX it's EY lounge rather than Skyteam.
(but does still list VA operated flights to AUH...., so you know)
 
redroo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:09 am

qf789 wrote:
325i wrote:
Speculation as to the deparure of JB is entirely that, speculation.I do note that there are some here that are not impressed with his management style,perhaps disgruntled ex DJ/VA employees! Give the guy a break , oh and I am not a relative of his I just believe in giving a person some respect for what is not the easiest of tasks in the aviation industry.
That's my 2 bobs worth for now, have a great day, Cheers 325 I.


You have got to be kidding. JB does not need to be given a break, he needs to be given the boot. He has been CEO at VA for over 7 years now and everyone is still waiting for him to announce a profit. If this was any other CEO is other company whether it was Qantas, Westpac, Woolworths, Dominos etc they would have been sacked a long time ago. At the end of the day results are expected and he has failed with this. There is a reason why Alan Joyce was chosen over JB at QF and that's because JB is not leadership material. One thing that sticks out the most is he fails to show any accountability, the Bali fiasco a year ago is a perfect example and is quiet quick to blame everyone but themselves, but I guess that's the typical Virgin line along with they are very good talking up new things but fail to deliver. Other users here which criticise him are not ex DJ/VA workers, they have every reason to criticise because when one keeps promising we are going to make a profit this year and year after year the opposite happens well you open yourself up for criticism.



Well said qf789.

JB has had more than enough time to turn the airline around. He actually has the distinction of being one of the few airlines to barely make a dollar in a period of big airline profits.
 
325i
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018a

Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:19 am

Hey qf789 your commentary is quite heavy,do you have shares in VA or do you have an axe to grind?
If JB was as you say, he would have most certainly been given a golden handshake some time ago.
He must have some credibility as he still in the "chair",to quote an expression.
Cheers anyway 325i.
 
Sydscott
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:42 am

redroo wrote:
qf789 wrote:
325i wrote:
Speculation as to the deparure of JB is entirely that, speculation.I do note that there are some here that are not impressed with his management style,perhaps disgruntled ex DJ/VA employees! Give the guy a break , oh and I am not a relative of his I just believe in giving a person some respect for what is not the easiest of tasks in the aviation industry.
That's my 2 bobs worth for now, have a great day, Cheers 325 I.


You have got to be kidding. JB does not need to be given a break, he needs to be given the boot. He has been CEO at VA for over 7 years now and everyone is still waiting for him to announce a profit. If this was any other CEO is other company whether it was Qantas, Westpac, Woolworths, Dominos etc they would have been sacked a long time ago. At the end of the day results are expected and he has failed with this. There is a reason why Alan Joyce was chosen over JB at QF and that's because JB is not leadership material. One thing that sticks out the most is he fails to show any accountability, the Bali fiasco a year ago is a perfect example and is quiet quick to blame everyone but themselves, but I guess that's the typical Virgin line along with they are very good talking up new things but fail to deliver. Other users here which criticise him are not ex DJ/VA workers, they have every reason to criticise because when one keeps promising we are going to make a profit this year and year after year the opposite happens well you open yourself up for criticism.



Well said qf789.

JB has had more than enough time to turn the airline around. He actually has the distinction of being one of the few airlines to barely make a dollar in a period of big airline profits.


Virgin Airlines seem to have that in common. Compare Virgin Atlantic and Virgin America profit performance to Virgin Australia. The Virgin Group know how to make money out of airlines and it is by setting up and selling them, not owning them.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018a

Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:49 am

325i wrote:
Hey qf789 your commentary is quite heavy,do you have shares in VA or do you have an axe to grind?
If JB was as you say, he would have most certainly been given a golden handshake some time ago.
He must have some credibility as he still in the "chair",to quote an expression.
Cheers anyway 325i.


No I don’t have shares nor do I have an axe to grind. The fact remains he has not delivered as a CEO should. As I stated before if it were any other company he would of been given the boot a long time ago. Every year we have heard the same story we will make a profit this year and every year a loss is announced and now it’s getting to the point where people will believe it when it happens. In fact he doesn’t really sound like a CEO but more like a politician. CEO’s are expected to get results and if that hasn’t happened in 7 years it’s time someone else took the reigns
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:11 am

eta unknown wrote:
And VA's NZ flights all suffer from no front end business- they have publically admitted this with all the corp traffic going to NZ/QF.


VA basically doesn't have an brand presence in New Zealand anymore, apart from the odd campaign for the flights to RAR and TBU, everything thing else e.g. Tasman is marketed by NZ.

I know so many people that wont fly VA across the Tasman anymore unless its the only option - Often its cheaper to fly on an VA flight ticketed by NZ than it is to take the NZ operated flight, with many opting to pay the little extra for the NZ operated flight.

EX-AKL the VA product isn't really anything special, its an step above JQ but thats about it! EX-CHC,WLG,DUD VA is an little better off being that on some routes there is no or little choice.

eta unknown wrote:
SQ 4x daily- the joke around the industry is SQ could barely fill 3x/day so 4x/day outside peak season will sure be interesting- guess there's nowhere else to send the planes. Ditto EK's new 3rd daily flight... hmmm...


AKL has just been increased to 3x daily operated by an mix of NZ/SQ (with 77W,789s and 388s) so would have thought Brisbane could do it.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:14 am

325i wrote:
Hi Mariner, thank you for your correction but I have always assumed that ZK was the country Cade for ANZ .however aside from my mistake we all knew who I was referring to. Cheers 325i


I sort of knew, but had to think whether you were referring to pre or post restructure ANZ..... And initially my mind went for REX, which is ZL, before correcting itself pretty quick. Using our own shorthand correctly is important.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018a

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:21 am

qf789 wrote:
325i wrote:
Hey qf789 your commentary is quite heavy,do you have shares in VA or do you have an axe to grind?
If JB was as you say, he would have most certainly been given a golden handshake some time ago.
He must have some credibility as he still in the "chair",to quote an expression.
Cheers anyway 325i.


No I don’t have shares nor do I have an axe to grind. The fact remains he has not delivered as a CEO should. As I stated before if it were any other company he would of been given the boot a long time ago. Every year we have heard the same story we will make a profit this year and every year a loss is announced and now it’s getting to the point where people will believe it when it happens. In fact he doesn’t really sound like a CEO but more like a politician. CEO’s are expected to get results and if that hasn’t happened in 7 years it’s time someone else took the reigns


And dont forget at QF he was in charge of International whilst it bled cash... Ill have to check the dates to confirm causality but him leaving QF and Intl being restructured to reduce losses were pretty close.
 
kriskim
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:38 am

eta unknown wrote:
MH back in June: their business will depend almost entirely on web bookings to Vietnam/India/LHR- agents here are still wary of them. Outside peak season there is almost no traffic to Malaysia.


Well I was not surprised to see BNE axed back then, it was axed for a reason, the route was not profitable for MH. This time around MH will need to leverage connections to Asia as VFR traffic is almost non-existent compared to MEL, SYD, PER and ADL. It won't be easy this time round either, as SQ have already bumped up frequency to maximise its attractiveness for connections. MH won't have a European network either, besides LHR to optimise connecting traffic.

Many here think that BNE does well to Malaysia, but in reality it does not. D7 might be able to help but they have chosen to stay put in OOL.
A world built upon connectivity.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:52 am

sq256 wrote:

VA moved their check in desks from T3 to DL’s new T2 facilities in LAX with buses provided from there to TBIT. VA was initially going to co-locate entirely to T2 but has held off that for now as DL is still refurbishing T2.

VA uses the Skyteam lounge (operated by Plaza Premium) in SYD for flights to LAX by DL or VA.

Thanks for the clarification. Never aware they moved to T2 for check-in.

ZK-NBT wrote:
the A333 has appeared at MEL since the A359 started flying it which has an older product, no consistency.

TG does stretch their A359 fleet thin currently so A333 appeared in MEL when one of the A359 went tech or went to maintenance. MEL is the easiest route to swap (can be flown by one a/c, have the leg and have the crew).

Michael
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:28 am

planemanofnz wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Regarding rumours of CX for CBR

CX has put to bed those rumours, saying that it does not have plans to serve CBR.

See: https://blueswandaily.com/cathay-pacifi ... -services/.

Cheers,

C.


Not saying that I give that CX Secrets Facebook page any credibility, but if CX actually does announce HKG-CBR later this year, their statement that "we currently have no plans in place to operate flights to Canberra" will be seen as bullsh*t and I hope that at the inaugural press conference some media calls therm out on it and says "In January you said "we currently have no plans in place to operate flights to Canberra", clearly you were lying so why should we believe anything you say in future? If I ask if you're buying Airbus A380s and you say "We have no plans to buy A380s" then why should any of us believe you given that you've lied about CBR?"
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018a

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:34 am

325i wrote:
If JB was as you say, he would have most certainly been given a golden handshake some time ago.
He must have some credibility as he still in the "chair",to quote an expression.


JB is still there because the board has no other choice. The closest they came was Luxon who clearly wanted different things, JB keeps dangling one lifeline after another and one excuse after another, I reckon the board's getting tired of it but they feel they have no choice but to let him ride it out because if they turfed him, which is their alternative and their next strategy, their 'exit' strategy? They're a bunch of guys in the club at 1am and JB is the last girl on the dancefloor! Unfortunately at some stage the 'ugly lights' are gonna come on and the board will oust him, but not until they know what to do next.
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018a

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:40 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
JB is still there because the board has no other choice.


There are plenty of other choices. There is a whole world of halfway decent airline executives out there and many of them would jump at the opportunity to come in and rebuild a carrier like VA.

Either the Board is as halfwitted as JB, or the shareholders are happy that VA is delivering for them strategically (can't see that being the case for EY or increasingly SQ).
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018a

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:43 am

qf002 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
JB is still there because the board has no other choice.


There are plenty of other choices. There is a whole world of halfway decent airline executives out there and many of them would jump at the opportunity to come in and rebuild a carrier like VA.

Either the Board is as halfwitted as JB, or the shareholders are happy that VA is delivering for them strategically (can't see that being the case for EY or increasingly SQ).


Why airline executives? Luxon is from unilever prior to NZ I believe? That’s the problem what the airlines need is woman and men who are leaders and can create a vision, the aviation industry is unique and challenging but far often seems too enfatuated with itself, the industry specific experience at that level is not required.

I think EY and to a lesser extent have too much on their plate to worry about VA, EY itself is trying to stabilise and keep itself alive, SQ is busy sorting out Tiger and Scoot.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:05 am

Hey guys,
Singapore Airlines definitely wanted Australia-USA rights years ago, and publicly tried at least twice that I remember to get them from the Aussie government. I believe that if offered them now, they would snap them up.
I'm an optimist and believe that ultimately things will work out for Virgin Australia. Perhaps a 'vision statement' backed by all three major airline co-owners needs to be developed but it's hard to see that happening when three disparate companies competing against each other share the board room, each with a hand 'on the wheel'. It would be incredibly hard for ANY boss to deal with a situation like that, Borghetti or whomever.
VA is a great airline staffed by great people. Simple. I support them.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
sq256
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018a

Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:12 am

smi0006 wrote:

I think EY and to a lesser extent have too much on their plate to worry about VA, EY itself is trying to stabilise and keep itself alive, SQ is busy sorting out Tiger and Scoot.


The last rumours I've read is that EY are trying to get rid of most of their unprofitable investments except for Alitalia (a bigger financial basketcase than VA), which IMO they are really holding on for "Valuable" slots in Europe and US.

Tiger and Scoot are since one identity from a operational perspective since mid last year.

Delta are the darkhorse in the ongoing VA boardroom dramas, they haven't denied being interested in a VA stake nor have specifically ruled out a stake in VA in the future. Although, common sense says DL would want JB to "move on" should SQ and/or EY quit, otherwise wave DL's interest goodbye.

The HU group is also another piece in the puzzle, currently under investigation by the Chinese government for certain overseas investments including VA. One of the primary reasons (if not the primary) why HU invested in VA is to get access to HKG-SYD/BNE/MEL/PER slots through VA since the Oz-HKG bilaterals for the "Big 4" are full.
Last edited by sq256 on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018a

Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:29 am

smi0006 wrote:
Why airline executives?


I don’t care where they come from, the point is that (1) there are plenty of other options, and (2) there won’t be change until shareholders demand it.
 
oskarclare
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:54 am

eta unknown wrote:
Re BNE... I've long questioned the AC route (and the set up of their admin ops in AU) and still suspect the new MEL-YVR service will either reduce or replace BNE, but hope to be proven wrong.
VA BNE-POM/HIR... only freight is making these flights break even/profitable. And VA's NZ flights all suffer from no front end business- they have publically admitted this with all the corp traffic going to NZ/QF.
EY mulled double daily BNE a few months ago and decided against it. Their BNE Sales staff have since been cut from 5 to 2.
SQ 4x daily- the joke around the industry is SQ could barely fill 3x/day so 4x/day outside peak season will sure be interesting- guess there's nowhere else to send the planes. Ditto EK's new 3rd daily flight... hmmm...
MH back in June: their business will depend almost entirely on web bookings to Vietnam/India/LHR- agents here are still wary of them. Outside peak season there is almost no traffic to Malaysia.
HU 2x/week BNE-SZX flight continues to amaze me- how long will it last?


This is exactly why more and more airlines are continually adding capacity to Brisbane. For the account, Singapore numbers have actually grown since the introduction of the 4th daily flight and AC actually do pretty well for BNE. Another thing, yes HU SZX hasn’t started the best but I believe it will grow as the route matures.

Mate, if you don’t anything nice to say, don’t say it at all.
 
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mariner
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:55 am

325i wrote:
The fact remains that JB is still there irrespective of your assumptions.


JB is still there largely because no one (except - perhaps - NZ/Luxon) gave enough of a sh*t to change anything - and perhaps by a curious accident of timing.

The public shareholding was and is tiny. The majority of Virgin is held by corporations - airlines - who have a vested interest. None of them really give a toss whether the airline makes money or not as long as they continue to get the big Australian feed that Virgin sends to them.

In those days, the key player was Sir Richard Branson, who had his own motives. He (publicly) saw Qantas as a weakened enemy and Alan Joyce as an Irish loser. He could do to Qantas what he had signally failed to do to British Airways. So he chose Borghetti - JB.

JB took over in 2010, with a clear mandate to change the airline. At that time, Virgin Blue (as it was known) was profitable and with a fairly healthy amount of cash in the bank. JB has not only burned through all of Virgin's cash, he's burned through various infusions of money from the airline investors.

The one shareholder that did care - Air NZ - was profitable in its own right, but could not afford to have its large investment in Virgin sitting doing diddly-squat with no sign of a return and calls for more money from JB. Nor was Virgin flying any route that Air NZ could not fly for itself.

Unfortunately, the timing of CEO Luxon's coup (March 2016) couldn't have been worse because a new player had entered the scene - Elizabeth Bryan as Chairperson of the Board of Directors (20 May 2015) - and it got murky.

One of the extraordinary relationships in Australian aviation is that of Qantas CEO Alan Joyce and Leigh Clifford, Chairman of the Qantas BOD. They're an unlikely couple, as different as chalk and cheese, but Clifford has stood by Joyce through thick and thin, even during the grounding, even during the time when politicians and the press (and much of a.net) were demanding Joyce's head.

I think Elizabeth Bryan wanted the same relationship with her CEO when she took over at Virgin. No matter how bad it all looked she was determined to stand by her man, as Clifford was doing with Joyce, and it helped, of course, that JB can be very charming and persuasive.

And even if the other airline shareholders thought L:uxon was right, they weren't about to rock the boat - or fly against the new chairperson. It's not that they couldn't stand up to her - they saw no need to do so.

So Luxon left and JB turned to China - the wheels of which were oiled at least in part by Luxon who sold the NZ share of Virgin to the Chinese conglomerate, Nanshan.

mariner
Last edited by mariner on Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:02 am

325i wrote:
Greetings All, after reading the comments about VA v ZK or the other way about, I suspect that the board of VA have more inside knowledge of what ZK did to Ansett. There have been numerous rumours eg, they milked the coffers of Ansett for their own benefit! Would not enter into ant financial undertaking to keep the 767's airworthy!
So I guess if any of the above were true then having ZK depart from VA was a good move.History does have a way of repeating itself.

Complete load of hogwash and rumour spun by aggrieved employees who didn’t understand the disasterous state their company had been left in by the previous owners TNT/Newscorp. If you want to eat sour grapes then I suggest you look at TNT and Newscorp in the first instance and look at the Federal government and Qantas for the part they played. As for SQ they walked away when they did due diligence so they were no solution.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:13 am

But which way should Virgin Australia go even under a new boss? No sense bringing in somebody new to keep things the way they are, if the way they are isn't working. This is why I think the board really doesn't have much of a "Plan B" or isn't crying out for a new boss. VA's burnt through cash? Yes, especially in one-off expenses in new business class, lounges etc. That money's not coming back and face it, Virgin Australia is reducing its debt, so unless a new CEO is going to come up with an all-new plan to radically change things there's not going to be much money saved. So "Let's go back to being an LCC, maybe domestically with NZ-style Seats to Suit" won't work unless they throw good money after bad by ripping out those business class seats and putting in "premium economy" maybe, or just economy with extra legroom at the front? I really don't see an easy answer for Virgin's troubles which will quickly turn things around, and if there was an easy answer then surely JB and the board would have embraced it, so what do people here think Virgin Australia should do?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:26 am

[quote="oskarclare"
This is exactly why more and more airlines are continually adding capacity to Brisbane. For the account, Singapore numbers have actually grown since the introduction of the 4th daily flight and AC actually do pretty well for BNE. Another thing, yes HU SZX hasn’t started the best but I believe it will grow as the route matures.

Mate, if you don’t anything nice to say, don’t say it at all.[/quote]
1. Well I guess we know who you work for... of course SQ numbers will rise with a 4th flight. They don't have to be good numbers, just anything over the 3 flights.
2. "This is exactly why..." your rationale is not clear. Nowhere wlse to fly empty planes?
3. BTW, who annointed you niceness thread referree?
 
sq256
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:33 am

eta unknown wrote:
oskarclare wrote:
This is exactly why more and more airlines are continually adding capacity to Brisbane. For the account, Singapore numbers have actually grown since the introduction of the 4th daily flight and AC actually do pretty well for BNE. Another thing, yes HU SZX hasn’t started the best but I believe it will grow as the route matures.

Mate, if you don’t anything nice to say, don’t say it at all.

1. Well I guess we know who you work for... of course SQ numbers will rise with a 4th flight. They don't have to be good numbers, just anything over the 3 flights.
2. "This is exactly why..." your rationale is not clear. Nowhere wlse to fly empty planes?
3. BTW, who annointed you niceness thread referree?


Probably because most of the earlier predictions you've made about Brisbane from either you or your sources has been mostly wrong. E.g the earlier Air Canada prediction about BNE-YVR being "cancelled" before it started and "Chinese Airlines" only want to go to the Gold Coast.

So I can understand why some people can be peeved on whatever agenda you may have against BNE in general.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:52 am

Gentleman, (and Ladies). The reasons I enjoy the Ozzie thread so much is as follows: 1. There are many different "interests" that post on this thread with their very own thoughts and ideas. 2. Up until now those with an axe to grind, or have a big ego, have been tolerated because they have not got "personal" towards other thread posters. 3. In most instances, those who post on this thread have shown a remarkable respect for each others opinion even though they may not agree with such opinion, and I can understand why, because there is going to be someone out there that wont agree with yours (opinion).When I joined A Net so many years ago, one of the conditions was "always take the high road and others will follow". Healthy and robust discussion I enjoy, so please people, let's not stuff it up for each other..
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
sq256
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:54 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
But which way should Virgin Australia go even under a new boss? No sense bringing in somebody new to keep things the way they are, if the way they are isn't working. This is why I think the board really doesn't have much of a "Plan B" or isn't crying out for a new boss. VA's burnt through cash? Yes, especially in one-off expenses in new business class, lounges etc. That money's not coming back and face it, Virgin Australia is reducing its debt, so unless a new CEO is going to come up with an all-new plan to radically change things there's not going to be much money saved. So "Let's go back to being an LCC, maybe domestically with NZ-style Seats to Suit" won't work unless they throw good money after bad by ripping out those business class seats and putting in "premium economy" maybe, or just economy with extra legroom at the front? I really don't see an easy answer for Virgin's troubles which will quickly turn things around, and if there was an easy answer then surely JB and the board would have embraced it, so what do people here think Virgin Australia should do?


* Tigerair covers the LCC flying for the VA group those days, so there's the added expenses of absorbing TT back into VA if VA themselves were to revert back to a LCC.

* Forget VA joining any of the major alliances in the short term, although they may work closely with airlines from Star and Skyteam. DL owns a major stake in Virgin Atlantic, and has a major JV with them, but kept them at arms length from SkyTeam.

* VA has burnt bridges with veteran Star members in NZ and UA. Making it very unlikely for VA to join Star at this point. Even with most VA FFs on Social Media preferring to avoid UA altogether.

* There are also the questions whether SQ and/or EY are also going to exit VA. Although both carriers are on good terms with VA, they may continue their codeshare agreements/JV without the shareholdings. As opposed to NZ withdrawing benefits for VA FFs when they exited the VA board.

* HU group are also under investigation by the Chinese government over certain overseas investments including their stake in VA (to gain access to HKG-BNE/SYD/MEL/PER market through the backdoor via VA since the Bilateral is full).
* The lingering questions of EY and SQ's future involvement in VA had led DL being a darkhorse in the Virgin Australia drama (by not specifically ruling out a VA stake in the future, yet not confirming any future financial interest in VA) by watching the boardroom dramas play out at VA whilst maintaining and slowly increasing their involvement in the DL/VA TransPacifc JV.
 
oskarclare
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:05 pm

TN486 wrote:
Gentleman, (and Ladies). The reasons I enjoy the Ozzie thread so much is as follows: 1. There are many different "interests" that post on this thread with their very own thoughts and ideas. 2. Up until now those with an axe to grind, or have a big ego, have been tolerated because they have not got "personal" towards other thread posters. 3. In most instances, those who post on this thread have shown a remarkable respect for each others opinion even though they may not agree with such opinion, and I can understand why, because there is going to be someone out there that wont agree with yours (opinion).When I joined A Net so many years ago, one of the conditions was "always take the high road and others will follow". Healthy and robust discussion I enjoy, so please people, let's not stuff it up for each other..


Yeah I agree with you mate, just got a bit frustrated.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:37 pm

mariner wrote:
325i wrote:
The fact remains that JB is still there irrespective of your assumptions.


JB is still there largely because no one (except - perhaps - NZ/Luxon) gave enough of a sh*t to change anything - and perhaps by a curious accident of timing.

The public shareholding was and is tiny. The majority of Virgin is held by corporations - airlines - who have a vested interest. None of them really give a toss whether the airline makes money or not as long as they continue to get the big Australian feed that Virgin sends to them.

In those days, the key player was Sir Richard Branson, who had his own motives. He (publicly) saw Qantas as a weakened enemy and Alan Joyce as an Irish loser. He could do to Qantas what he had signally failed to do to British Airways. So he chose Borghetti - JB.

JB took over in 2010, with a clear mandate to change the airline. At that time, Virgin Blue (as it was known) was profitable and with a fairly healthy amount of cash in the bank. JB has not only burned through all of Virgin's cash, he's burned through various infusions of money from the airline investors.

The one shareholder that did care - Air NZ - was profitable in its own right, but could not afford to have its large investment in Virgin sitting doing diddly-squat with no sign of a return and calls for more money from JB. Nor was Virgin flying any route that Air NZ could not fly for itself.

Unfortunately, the timing of CEO Luxon's coup (March 2016) couldn't have been worse because a new player had entered the scene - Elizabeth Bryan as Chairperson of the Board of Directors (20 May 2015) - and it got murky.

One of the extraordinary relationships in Australian aviation is that of Qantas CEO Alan Joyce and Leigh Clifford, Chairman of the Qantas BOD. They're an unlikely couple, as different as chalk and cheese, but Clifford has stood by Joyce through thick and thin, even during the grounding, even during the time when politicians and the press (and much of a.net) were demanding Joyce's head.

I think Elizabeth Bryan wanted the same relationship with her CEO when she took over at Virgin. No matter how bad it all looked she was determined to stand by her man, as Clifford was doing with Joyce, and it helped, of course, that JB can be very charming and persuasive.

And even if the other airline shareholders thought L:uxon was right, they weren't about to rock the boat - or fly against the new chairperson. It's not that they couldn't stand up to her - they saw no need to do so.

So Luxon left and JB turned to China - the wheels of which were oiled at least in part by Luxon who sold the NZ share of Virgin to the Chinese conglomerate, Nanshan.

mariner


Although I mostly agree with your sense of history, I feel there are other historical aspects of the conversation that should be included.

Out of the blocks the morphing of the old Virgin Blue into the new sleek Virgin Australia had almost immediate success. They were able to grow market share by about 5-7% and increase their returns through higher ticket prices.

Up till 2014 Virgin Australia was continuously growing its share of the market. On face value this was going to be a successful transformation of the airline.

......but there was a considerable amount of cost associated with this. Virgin Australia:

a. effectively started a new airline, Virgin Australia Regional Airlines.
b. invested heavily in new aircraft, seating, lounges and branding.
c. included meals / other ancillary services in their fare structures.

In response QANTAS stepped up to the challenge. It improved its product offering and reduced fares to match those of Virgin Australia (The QANTAS of today is a far better airline than the QANTAS that was initially competing with the new VA).

As a consequence, even though on an operational level parts of the business were profitable, the airline fell into a loss position because it could not recover the higher costs through higher fares and increased turnover.

In my opinion the grounding of QANTAS in 2014 would ultimately be the pivotal point in the demise of the Virgin Australia strategy.

The grounding and the Virgin Australia competitive challenge gave QANTAS the narrative it needed to transform the airline.

From a public relations perspective QANTAS, who until this time was losing the PR war turned the tide to have the public largely on their side.

The subsequent re-structure of QANTAS allowed it to directly compete with Virgin Australia on a cost and product offering basis.

Again, in my opinion the Virgin Australia management team made three major strategic blunders.

1. They invested heavily in a new regional airline, whilst at the same time repositioned the core business. The regional business incurred considerable losses.
2. They invested heavily in a new wide body A330 fleet for domestic flying. These aircraft unnecessarily complicated their business and would ultimately result in considerable operational losses.
3. They became too cocky. SRB, who had been riding the Virgin Australia wave to knock QANTAS and Alan Joyce failed to realise he was ultimately digging his own PR grave. There was a significant shift in
the general public’s sediment away from SRB and VA to AJ and QANTAS.

Ultimately, Virgin Australia ended up having to sell itself to other airlines to ensure it remained a viable going concern.

In closing, SRB, JB and their management team bet the entire value (and than some) of the Virgin Blue business to create Virgin Australia…….and ultimately had to close the regional airline, repriotise the A330’s to largely international flying and restructure their business model, to something resembling an upgraded Virgin Blue.

At the end of the day Virgin Australia is now a debt laden, lethargic airline with a divisive board of directors with a limited ability to strategically maneuver itself within a competitive marketplace.

If...and this is a big if, QANTAS had decided to regain the market share it lost during the heat of the VA/QANTAS battle, VA would have probably been a doomed airline. They simply wouldn’t have been able to afford to reposition the airline.
 
TN486
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:59 pm

^^ Yep, well said, and I am sure there are other thoughts as well. As most of you can tell, (maybe), I am in a very reflective mood tonight. Having read some comments about Ansett, Air NZ, and the demise of the former and very nearly the demise of latter I wish to offer this comment for what it's worth: It has always been my belief that AN's problems commenced immediately the "Two Airline Agreement in Australia" was ditched. To put it bluntly AN was stuffed. To quote a very reliable and impeccable source, "AN was a great airline but a very bad business". For those of you who know nothing about the Two Airline Policy that was once the hallmark of Australian Aviation, Mr Google can assist you to become "scholars".
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:26 pm

TN486,
I believe that was Sir Rod Eddington's quote? Correct me if I am wrong.
And I agree with your sentiment about arguments in this thread. I love a brisk and hearty argument as much as anyone, but tonight I am also feeling reflective.
Take care all.
Bunumuring
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
TN486
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:37 pm

^^ Spot on bunumuring, It was Sir Rod's words. And thank you, and others ( in the form of PM's) for your support. cheers. It is now 32 minutes after midnight and way past my bed time, so ni nite.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:36 pm

Please keep to discussing the topic and not engage in off-topic personal commentary. It is neither fair nor appropriate to dismiss a user's comments on the basis that their username somehow implies bias. A user with "United" in their username doesn't automatically delegitimize their comments whenever discussing Delta. Everyone has inherent bias, so blaming it on the username is a bit silly...particularly when many of us chose our usernames many years ago.

Forum rules require all discussion to debate the topic, not the user, so let's please try to stick to that.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:51 pm

Nicely put travelhound
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:03 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
But which way should Virgin Australia go even under a new boss? No sense bringing in somebody new to keep things the way they are, if the way they are isn't working............ I really don't see an easy answer for Virgin's troubles which will quickly turn things around, and if there was an easy answer then surely JB and the board would have embraced it, so what do people here think Virgin Australia should do?


Everyone will have their opinion, but the big problem of Virgin, the reason it lost so much money for so long, was not just the cost of rebranding and refitting, but also the cost of growth. Branson and then Borghetti didn't learn a simple history lesson :

TN486 wrote:
^ It has always been my belief that AN's problems commenced immediately the "Two Airline Agreement in Australia" was ditched. To put it bluntly AN was stuffed. To quote a very reliable and impeccable source, "AN was a great airline but a very bad business"..


TN486 is spot on, because there wasn't much historical basis to the idea that Australia could support two full-service airlines of similar size - without government support of some kind, such as the Two Airline Policy.

Branson/Boghetti were all fired up by the problems at Qantas (and Alan Joyce) and decided to take on Qantas market share - the famous domestic "line in the sand" that Qantas had drawn at 65%. This was often an aspiration rather than an actuality - I don't think Qantas had actually hit 65% since 2013, it had usually been just under. These days, for example, Qantas its in a position of extraordinary strength and is deliberately down-sizing domestic market share - to 62%.

https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... wth-218946

So - what does Virgin do? I suppose it would be heresy to some to to say that Virgin should be the one down-sizing and by a far greater percentage. It's really what a lot of people (including myself) have suggested - there was nothing wrong with (profitable) Virgin Blue but it needed a decent Business Class.

Maybe that's the future - Tiger takes over the bulk of the grunt work and a much smaller Virgin provides great premium service on a few plum domestic routes and (long distance) international.

It may be entirely possible that Australia can support a much smaller full-service competitor to Qantas.

mariner
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Ellofiend
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:21 pm

I'd just like to ask one question to you men and women, do you think JB has done a good job, is doing a good job or has never been a good CEO? In my own opinion, I think that he has turned VA from a LCC into a legacy carrier and adapted to the changes that QF have made in order to lessen the impact QF have made on their bottom line. This has turned them around from the small carrier they were back in 2009, into the genuine competitor to QF they now are, they may not look good in terms of whether you wanting to fly them but they are now handling much larger sums of money than Virgin Blue had ever done. Although I am of the opinion that JB does see the end is near and will either retire of his own accord or as a result of the BOD (the less likely route I think)
:twocents: Ello
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:47 pm

Ellofiend wrote:
I'd just like to ask one question to you men and women, do you think JB has done a good job, is doing a good job or has never been a good CEO? In my own opinion, I think that he has turned VA from a LCC into a legacy carrier and adapted to the changes that QF have made in order to lessen the impact QF have made on their bottom line. This has turned them around from the small carrier they were back in 2009, into the genuine competitor to QF they now are, they may not look good in terms of whether you wanting to fly them but they are now handling much larger sums of money than Virgin Blue had ever done. Although I am of the opinion that JB does see the end is near and will either retire of his own accord or as a result of the BOD (the less likely route I think)
:twocents: Ello


There is a reason he was overlooked for the CEO position at QF when Dixon retired.

It is easy to add bells and whistles to an airline when you are burning through other peoples cash, but Virgin Australia still can't make a profit when other airlines are making record profits. The direction they were taken was flawed from the outset. They would have been better off setting up a smaller full service carrier for the business trunk routes and kept the traditional Virgin Blue style airline that they had been.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:06 pm

Just got notification from my Qanta app that my flight to HND just got delayed to 3:00pm tomorrow. (OMG)

Gonna give them a call later and see if they can put me the Osaka flight tomorrow morning.....(My ultimate destination but I need to cancel my seperate JAL ITM booking)

Does it have anything to do with recent disruption in US and tight fleet ulitilization?

Really disappointed because I could have booked on NH or CX instead

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