BA has held onto a small number of 767 for years now, despite taking delivery of dozens of new 787s that could easily replace them. Some common routes include Kiev, Zurich, Glasgow... routes that could easily and sensibly be switched over to A320 family aircraft.

With all this talk about AA and "keeping a small subfleet of aircraft around", why on Earth does BA support the 767 today?

The 767s will be gone by November 2018. They have been work horses for BA and carry a lot more cargo than the A320 family something short haul routes will loose.

Interesting timing to raise the question, as the last 767s will leave the fleet during 2018.
Once they had 28 of them, 7 were sold to Qantas early on, and in latter years the 21 remaining were split into 14 configured for long/midhaul and 7 European/domestic. The long/mid haul examples were indeed replaced by 787s and are all gone from the mainline fleet. One lingers at Paris-based subsidiary OpenSkies, but will disappear in Q3 2018 as OpenSkies is folded into the IAG long haul LCC brand Level and two more A330s arrive to take over.
The 7 shorthaul planes that remain with BA itself have been kept mainly for their cargo capacity, but have now reached the end of the line and A321neos are on order to replace them during 2018, with deliveries starting in April and the whole 767 fleet gone by the end of 2018.
BA 767s are the very rare Rolls Royce engined variety with low resale values.I dare say another engine variant might have seen them snapped up for freighter conversions and that might have made it worthwhile to replace them sooner. As it is, BA has had plenty of spares available from the already withdrawn examples.

It will be a shame to see the 767’s leave the fleet from a capacity & cargo point of view. On domestic routes, all the 767 flights I have been are pretty full.

I guess their lives have been extended slightly. WX and HC were due to leave Nov-17 and are still flying!

ba319-131 wrote:

It will be a shame to see the 767’s leave the fleet from a capacity & cargo point of view. On domestic routes, all the 767 flights I have been are pretty full.

I guess the 767 leaving will be a like when the 757 left but it is just time passing by...

ba319-131 wrote:

It will be a shame to see the 767’s leave the fleet from a capacity & cargo point of view. On domestic routes, all the 767 flights I have been are pretty full.

Interestingly, I have heard the same. They tend to be pretty busy.

I'm heading over to Stockholm in May and I think that's going to be my last BA 767 flight.

Not long to go now, it's less than a year before they're gone!

They’re knackered and an add mix of ages. G-BNWA/B are by far the oldest aircraft in BA (IAG?), from 1989. The amount of old food in the seat tracks last month on ‘WX was sickening, was in plain sight. Much better on G-EUYS more recently where there’s not enough legroom to be able to see them!
They’re also incredibly noisy in comparison to the A320 series.

They are being replaced by the A321

skipness1E wrote:

They’re also incredibly noisy in comparison to the A320 series.

That's the reason I love them. The noise is fab. I'm due to fly on one to Madrid at the end of April and Frankfurt in June (unless they change the type).

I've been on a few BA 767s and they have always been pretty full as others have mentioned.

A lot of it is to do with cargo capacity and they do fill the aircraft on the routes they operate which generally tend to be the major cities and capital's of Europe. Though it would be great to see some short haul configured 777s or 787s sadly I believe they will replace them with A321s. Though how they will replace the lost cargo capacity I don't know.

LHR-MAD has the option of Iberia heavies, there's already one daily A346 per day, perhaps an A332? Speaking of BA Cargo, the DHL operatin supporting this operation is rumoured to be moving out to Gatters?

Oh, c'mon, compare a 767 with A320 family??
Please...

Anyone hae a photo of BA 767 current business class? I know they use to fly them too BWI.

Do we know what will be their last destinations ? I really want to catch one next summer

Boair wrote:

Do we know what will be their last destinations ? I really want to catch one next summer

ATH LCA ARN MAD just to name a few. Shame to see them go I had some good flights on them over the years.

Have had many a fine flight on these aircraft,always a pleasure.Also translantic in earlier days.

As stated the last of the BA fleet are being used on short continental routes.My understanding is that this is also true in the US for many of the 767's there.
Does anybody know the rough %age split between short and long haul for the remaining 767's in service around the World today.

LH658 wrote:

Anyone hae a photo of BA 767 current business class? I know they use to fly them too BWI.

Current surviving 767s are configured for shorthaul and don't have a separate Business Class cabin, the seats are basically the same in Club Europe and EuroTraveller and can be sold as either with a dividing curtain that moves according to demand. That said the 767s have the last remaining convertible seats in the fleet, where the width can be adjusted according to which class they are sold as, with the middle seat in the centre block of seats squeezed up and not sold in Business. Whether they bother doing this any more I don't know.
The planes that flew to BWI were in a completely different configuration, with a separate Club World/Business cabin fitted with lie flat seats.

Will be a sad day in 2018 when the last BA 767 leaves the fleet. They are always used on the LCA and ATH rotations and do also get utilized frequently on the MAD , FRA , ARL, NCE, and FCO. It is also not unusual to see them in EDI or GLA. I have had the pleasure of 2 BA 767 flights on G-BZHA & G-BZHC both of which like so many others I thoroughly enjoyed.

BA currently flies twice daily from LHR to GLA using the 767 alongside seven or eight daily A320 family rotations. Having flown this route a few times this winter each flight has been completely full. When the 767s do leave the fleet, it'll be interesting to see how BA compensates for the loss of capacity. Will they simply increase frequency or could we see BA configure some 777s or even 747s to short haul flights such as GLA?

As of end of December my current remaining 7 BA 763 flight totals are:-

BZHB - 10
BNWA - 7
BZHC - 6
BNWC - 5
BNWX - 5
BNWZ - 5
BZHA - 2

CitiFlyer wrote:

BA currently flies twice daily from LHR to GLA using the 767 alongside seven or eight daily A320 family rotations. Having flown this route a few times this winter each flight has been completely full. When the 767s do leave the fleet, it'll be interesting to see how BA compensates for the loss of capacity. Will they simply increase frequency or could we see BA configure some 777s or even 747s to short haul flights such as GLA?

Will they reconfigure 777s or 747s? Definitely not. Might they use a 747 or 777 in between long haul flights, quite possibly, as they trialled doing this with a 772ER between London and Madrid this year.

No they're explicitly not using long haul on domestics, the A321N is more than enough aircraft really. Thing about using the B763 is that it's too big, you might well fill it on the early morning EDI-LHR but it's empty on the 2300 arrival into EDI the night before. The fact that the flight is completely full on the A320 means margins should be good, it you drop a B747 into that market, yields are trashed.
It's a little different on the AY or IB examples are they're JV with many connections and cargo to boot.
Willie Walsh doesn't believe in wide body short haul, he has said this repeatedly, the 767 on domestic is an anachronism IMHO.

BoB is slow enoughon a good day on an A319, imagine trying to serve a full economy cabin on the B777 on s domestic !!

Does this show why BA is having problems, it is totally against all logic to have a 767 competing on routes with an A321 after the A330 rendered the 767 obsolete.
The mind boggles....

Since the demise of BMI there is no 'non-one world' feed to LHR from GLA/EDI (bar the flybe service) - as a result the BA flights are rammed - especially the early morning departures.
Would agree that the planes are very dirty but its still good to fly on a 767 - will be sad to see them go but to be honest I would rather have a larger non-BA carrier in the market to ease connections with other airlines at LHR.
I always thought the 767 was only used on the last departure from LHR/first from EDI/GLA but I am on a mid afternoon EDI-LHR next week and its scheduled for 767?

ba319-131 wrote:

As of end of December my current remaining 7 BA 763 flight totals are:-

BZHB - 10
BNWA - 7
BZHC - 6
BNWC - 5
BNWX - 5
BNWZ - 5
BZHA - 2

Have you got WC mixed up with WB ?

davidar23 wrote:

Since the demise of BMI there is no 'non-one world' feed to LHR from GLA/EDI (bar the flybe service) - as a result the BA flights are rammed - especially the early morning departures.
Would agree that the planes are very dirty but its still good to fly on a 767 - will be sad to see them go but to be honest I would rather have a larger non-BA carrier in the market to ease connections with other airlines at LHR.
I always thought the 767 was only used on the last departure from LHR/first from EDI/GLA but I am on a mid afternoon EDI-LHR next week and its scheduled for 767?

Normally this happens over the xmas/ New year period.

skipness1E wrote:

No they're explicitly not using long haul on domestics, the A321N is more than enough aircraft really. Thing about using the B763 is that it's too big, you might well fill it on the early morning EDI-LHR but it's empty on the 2300 arrival into EDI the night before. The fact that the flight is completely full on the A320 means margins should be good, it you drop a B747 into that market, yields are trashed.
It's a little different on the AY or IB examples are they're JV with many connections and cargo to boot.
Willie Walsh doesn't believe in wide body short haul, he has said this repeatedly, the 767 on domestic is an anachronism IMHO.

BoB is slow enoughon a good day on an A319, imagine trying to serve a full economy cabin on the B777 on s domestic !!

Saying that, word around the company is that a certain amount of 788 might end up doing some European routes in the next few years ( rumours)

Andy33 wrote:

Interesting timing to raise the question, as the last 767s will leave the fleet during 2018.
Once they had 28 of them, 7 were sold to Qantas early on, and in latter years the 21 remaining were split into 14 configured for long/midhaul and 7 European/domestic. The long/mid haul examples were indeed replaced by 787s and are all gone from the mainline fleet. One lingers at Paris-based subsidiary OpenSkies, but will disappear in Q3 2018 as OpenSkies is folded into the IAG long haul LCC brand Level and two more A330s arrive to take over.
The 7 shorthaul planes that remain with BA itself have been kept mainly for their cargo capacity, but have now reached the end of the line and A321neos are on order to replace them during 2018, with deliveries starting in April and the whole 767 fleet gone by the end of 2018.
BA 767s are the very rare Rolls Royce engined variety with low resale values.I dare say another engine variant might have seen them snapped up for freighter conversions and that might have made it worthwhile to replace them sooner. As it is, BA has had plenty of spares available from the already withdrawn examples.

I flew to MAD over Xmas and BA used a 767 on both legs. And for the return flight we were in a long haul configured bird as well. I was most pleasantry suprised, as we were forward enough to get premium economy seats. Club Europe passengers also got a nice surprise as they got Club World seats. We also had the full long haul inflight entertainment available, and as the flight was somewhat delayed due to a technical issue we got to watch a full movie and some TV entertainment as well. That's the way to travel short haul!

skipness1E wrote:

They’re knackered and an add mix of ages. G-BNWA/B are by far the oldest aircraft in BA (IAG?), from 1989. The amount of old food in the seat tracks last month on ‘WX was sickening, was in plain sight. Much better on G-EUYS more recently where there’s not enough legroom to be able to see them!
They’re also incredibly noisy in comparison to the A320 series.

Engineering are now taking over deep cleans as of this month from OCS, as what you said has become ridiculous and has an impact on customers.
Flightdecks are similarly dirty.

CitiFlyer wrote:

BA currently flies twice daily from LHR to GLA using the 767 alongside seven or eight daily A320 family rotations. Having flown this route a few times this winter each flight has been completely full. When the 767s do leave the fleet, it'll be interesting to see how BA compensates for the loss of capacity. Will they simply increase frequency or could we see BA configure some 777s or even 747s to short haul flights such as GLA?

That won't happen. The 747's are on their way and what will be left are the super high J config. Imagine trying to fill 86J seats on the run to EDI. Then add WT+ and WT and you get a similar ammount of seats of what the A32N gives you.

Now reconfiguring the 747/777 to a Domestic/European config with nothing lie flat and bigger than a WT+ seat, you will never fill in a million years.

tropical wrote:

I flew to MAD over Xmas and BA used a 767 on both legs. And for the return flight we were in a long haul configured bird as well. I was most pleasantry suprised, as we were forward enough to get premium economy seats. Club Europe passengers also got a nice surprise as they got Club World seats. We also had the full long haul inflight entertainment available, and as the flight was somewhat delayed due to a technical issue we got to watch a full movie and some TV entertainment as well. That's the way to travel short haul!

If that was Christmas 2017, then you couldn't have come back on a long haul 767 as BA has no long haul 767s left. But on 26 December they used a 77W for an LHR-MAD-LHR rotation. The last long haul 767s left the fleet in summer 2016, so you wouldn't have had one at Christmas 2016 either, but Christmas 2015 would have been possible.

shuttle9juliet wrote:

Saying that, word around the company is that a certain amount of 788 might end up doing some European routes in the next few years ( rumours)

That has been around for a while now and indeed I would not be surprised to see them on some routes that currently see B767 service.

Andy33 wrote:

tropical wrote:

I flew to MAD over Xmas and BA used a 767 on both legs. And for the return flight we were in a long haul configured bird as well. I was most pleasantry suprised, as we were forward enough to get premium economy seats. Club Europe passengers also got a nice surprise as they got Club World seats. We also had the full long haul inflight entertainment available, and as the flight was somewhat delayed due to a technical issue we got to watch a full movie and some TV entertainment as well. That's the way to travel short haul!

If that was Christmas 2017, then you couldn't have come back on a long haul 767 as BA has no long haul 767s left. But on 26 December they used a 77W for an LHR-MAD-LHR rotation. The last long haul 767s left the fleet in summer 2016, so you wouldn't have had one at Christmas 2016 either, but Christmas 2015 would have been possible.

ETA: Yes, two days ago. So I was on a 777 all along? The thought that the plane could be a T7 had never occurred to me

Oh well, that's one for my log book. MAD-LHR on a 777. Cool!

Our local airport has 2 A32S flights departing within 10 minutes of eachoether. I'd have thought it would make sense to combine them and send up a 767 than wasting a slot on these two flights.

CitiFlyer wrote:

BA currently flies twice daily from LHR to GLA using the 767 alongside seven or eight daily A320 family rotations. Having flown this route a few times this winter each flight has been completely full. When the 767s do leave the fleet, it'll be interesting to see how BA compensates for the loss of capacity. Will they simply increase frequency or could we see BA configure some 777s or even 747s to short haul flights such as GLA?

BA already operates longhaul 777s on the LHR-MAD route once a day as a matter of course. Presumably this is for freight purposes as much as to provide additional passenger capacity. I know flights between two IAG hubs might not be typical of the shorthaul 767 routes, but if BA can replace a 767 with a 777 on one short haul route then there may be potential for it to happen on other routes - especially the longer 767 shorthaul routes such as ATH and IST.

BA uses only A320s on IST and not double-daily - this is scheduled on 19 June 2018.

OA260 wrote:

shuttle9juliet wrote:

Saying that, word around the company is that a certain amount of 788 might end up doing some European routes in the next few years ( rumours)

That has been around for a while now and indeed I would not be surprised to see them on some routes that currently see B767 service.

The 787-8 and a 9 operated several LHR-GLA Shuttle's last year. OK it was to cover for fleet shortages within the Bus fleet but has been done. I'd like to know how much cargo goes on the domestic 767 runs and how important that is in terms of fleet rostering ?

sevenair wrote:

Our local airport has 2 A32S flights departing within 10 minutes of eachoether. I'd have thought it would make sense to combine them and send up a 767 than wasting a slot on these two flights.

2 A320s in BA's standard config hold up to 336 pax, 2 A321s hold up to 410. 1 763 holds up to 259. Exact capacity depends how many seats are sold as Club Europe with middles blocked. Now if they had sent 2 A319s at 288 maximum the argument would stand better,
Also, what time do these two flights arrive at your local airport? Are they 10 minutes apart then too, or is the gap longer?
Thing is, the slots are timed, so a departure slot with a return arrival within two and a half hours or so can really only be used for another domestic/Irish or very near mainland Europe flight. BA inherited quite a few slots like that from British Midland.

tropical wrote:

ETA: Yes, two days ago. So I was on a 777 all along? The thought that the plane could be a T7 had never occurred to me

Oh well, that's one for my log book. MAD-LHR on a 777. Cool!

772ERs are actually scheduled for a daily rotation to MAD, filling in a gap between two long haul flights, but the 77W must have been a late substitution.
There are normally multiple widebody flights on the BA/IB coordinated timetable between MAD and LHR, as IB sends at least one A340 or A330 a day as well. All for the trunk cargo haul between IAG Cargo's two main hubs.

JannEejit wrote:

OA260 wrote:

shuttle9juliet wrote:

Saying that, word around the company is that a certain amount of 788 might end up doing some European routes in the next few years ( rumours)

That has been around for a while now and indeed I would not be surprised to see them on some routes that currently see B767 service.

The 787-8 and a 9 operated several LHR-GLA Shuttle's last year. OK it was to cover for fleet shortages within the Bus fleet but has been done. I'd like to know how much cargo goes on the domestic 767 runs and how important that is in terms of fleet rostering ?

Quite a bit of freight on the 76, I’ve had drilling equipment on a pallet in the front hold, nearly 3tons.
The AKEs in the back southbound normally take a bit salmon, usually destined for Rome.
Other cargo on the pallets, are Pharmaceuticals and general industrial cargos.

I think from what I’ve heard is if the 76 goes tech ( normal) lots of the bulk cargo goes in the AKHs on the narrow bodies and the rest ( big stuff)is either chopped, or is broken up and goes by road, or if not critical goes the next day or whenever.

I will miss them when they are gone! My main BA route ATH-LHR-ATH is so much more comfortable in the 767 than the cramped A320's. I love the 2-3-2 seating in Y, with only one seatmate next to me it is so easy to go for a walk whenever one pleases!

Had a great full-power departure to MAD in October on BNWX. Runway was wet and one autobrake inop...!

CarbonFibre wrote:

Had a great full-power departure to MAD in October on BNWX. Runway was wet and one autobrake inop...!

Flew one on FRA LHR very comfortable, very full. Had to use a hard stand at T5, they need to figure that out.

ahmetdouas wrote:

I will miss them when they are gone! My main BA route ATH-LHR-ATH is so much more comfortable in the 767 than the cramped A320's. I love the 2-3-2 seating in Y, with only one seatmate next to me it is so easy to go for a walk whenever one pleases!

I thought you ditched BA for A3? Or was that last month

As a frequent sufferer in the past of the BA's "cargo" flights LHR<>MAD on 767, the sooner they are gone, the better. Noisy, uncomfortable and outdated. Cant wait for the farewell.

Jayafe wrote:

As a frequent sufferer in the past of the BA's "cargo" flights LHR<>MAD on 767, the sooner they are gone, the better. Noisy, uncomfortable and outdated. Cant wait for the farewell.

Outdated and noisy yes, comfortable? I’d say much more than the Airbus family.
Seat pitch on the 76 is 33” and only 29, 30” on the Airbus, and next year going smaller!!!
If you get the old divider seats, your laughing.
Just my opinion.

Cheers

It seems like the 767s that American Airlines flies have many mechanical issues; is it the same for the BA 767s?

CarbonFibre wrote:

Had a great full-power departure to MAD in October on BNWX. Runway was wet and one autobrake inop...!

We normally don’t ever use autobrake 1! 2 or above.
I don’t know why they ever installed 1 anyway?