SY announces LAX-HNL and MSP-MYR

SteveXC500 · Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:40 pm

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 74029.html

Begins 2018. MSP-HNL is one-stop direct via LAX.

United_fan · Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:51 pm

LAX-HNL is a very crowded market. Even more crowded when WN starts.

lavalampluva · Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:58 pm

I figured DL would enter the MSP-MYR market before SY. The HNL one is a bit odd considering it being a 737. The fare better be low because the stop in LAX is a bit of a turn off.

SteveXC500 · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:00 pm

AS flies 737’s from the West coast

flyguy84 · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:01 pm

United_fan wrote:
LAX-HNL is a very crowded market. Even more crowded when WN starts.

Assuming they start....

TUSDawg23 · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:06 pm

The thread title is sort of misleading because it's really MSP-HNL with a tech stop in LAX since the 737 doesn't have the legs to do that route nonstop in both directions. I guess I am just struggling to see how this can be profitable on a 737 for such a long stage-length and SY's fairly small domestic network which wouldn't provide a whole lot of feed for this flight. SY also has a pretty small fleet and this would be tying up a whole aircraft for just this route.

I think the MSP-MYR addition is a good one and will do ok for them.

LAXintl · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:07 pm

SY flight is about selling MSP-HNL. LAX is secondary, but with it being such a huge Hawaii market I doubt they will have much trouble selling a few dozen seats on the flight anyways.

lavalampluva · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:10 pm

TUSDawg23 wrote:
The thread title is sort of misleading because it's really MSP-HNL with a tech stop in LAX since the 737 doesn't have the legs to do that route nonstop in both directions. I guess I am just struggling to see how this can be profitable on a 737 for such a long stage-length and SY's fairly small domestic network which wouldn't provide a whole lot of feed for this flight. SY also has a pretty small fleet and this would be tying up a whole aircraft for just this route.

I think the MSP-MYR addition is a good one and will do ok for them.

SY tried flights from MSP-London (technical stop in YQX) a few years ago. It didn't last long. :lol:

stlgph · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:11 pm

TUSDawg23 wrote:
The thread title is sort of misleading because it's really MSP-HNL with a tech stop in LAX since the 737 doesn't have the legs to do that route nonstop in both directions. I guess I am just struggling to see how this can be profitable on a 737 for such a long stage-length and SY's fairly small domestic network which wouldn't provide a whole lot of feed for this flight. SY also has a pretty small fleet and this would be tying up a whole aircraft for just this route.

I think the MSP-MYR addition is a good one and will do ok for them.

This will be the power of OTAs at work on this one, folks looking for a good priced seat to Hawaii, especially with it aimed at Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon.

The summer SCA has historically been lighter than the winter schedule. Fleet size won't be a problem to execute this.

Atlwarrior · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:14 pm

Glad to see the Myrtle Beach service. So many people moving to the city.

MSPNWA · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:24 pm

MSP-LAX-HNL is overdue. I thought SY would go for it after they received ETOPS certification a while back.

TUSDawg23 wrote:
The thread title is sort of misleading because it's really MSP-HNL with a tech stop in LAX since the 737 doesn't have the legs to do that route nonstop in both directions. I guess I am just struggling to see how this can be profitable on a 737 for such a long stage-length and SY's fairly small domestic network which wouldn't provide a whole lot of feed for this flight. SY also has a pretty small fleet and this would be tying up a whole aircraft for just this route.

I think the MSP-MYR addition is a good one and will do ok for them.

When DL doesn't have a nonstop MSP-HNL, they offer a direct MSP-LAX-HNL. That direct flight has existed for years, and I remember both the nonstop and direct flight being offered on the same day. So there's no difference between what DL already does and SY is planning.

MSP to sunshine is SY's specialty, so I see this being something they could have been doing already. They don't need feed. They're looking for O&D. A red-eye back is also great for utilization. SY doesn't run many red-eyes, and their overall aircraft utilization is low. They need to bump that up. Aircraft availability isn't going to be an issue.

I'm more worried about MSP-MYR, especially after NK already announced it. That seems like too much, too soon.

lavalampluva wrote:
SY tried flights from MSP-London (technical stop in YQX) a few years ago. It didn't last long.

That was primarily for ETOPS certification. It wasn't intended to last.

flyguy84 · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:26 pm

If it’s just a technical stop wonder why they didn’t stop in ONT. Less congestion and can get in and out more quickly...

LAXintl · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:32 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
If it’s just a technical stop wonder why they didn’t stop in ONT. Less congestion and can get in and out more quickly...

Its not a tech stop. Its a revenue stop and MSP-LAX and LAX-HNL segments can be booked. SY already serves LAX.

TWA302 · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:33 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
United_fan wrote:
LAX-HNL is a very crowded market. Even more crowded when WN starts.

Assuming they start....

Why do you doubt that WN will? The big PR/Marketing announcement on Oct-11 wasn't just a teaser. The title from GK kind of makes it set in stone that they are.
https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t5/Southwest-Stories/We-re-Going-to-Hawaii-Baby/bc-p/62555

allegiantflyer · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:40 pm

Very interesting development, I hope SY has more success on this route as a ULCC than G4 did

TWA302 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
United_fan wrote:
LAX-HNL is a very crowded market. Even more crowded when WN starts.

Assuming they start....

Why do you doubt that WN will? The big PR/Marketing announcement on Oct-11 wasn't just a teaser. The title from GK kind of makes it set in stone that they are.
https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t5/Southwest-Stories/We-re-Going-to-Hawaii-Baby/bc-p/62555

I think United_fan is questioning whether WN will launch LAX-HNL directly as one of their inaugural routes. Which isn't bad of a speculation, I suspect WN to go more after AS routes ( the desire to hurt AS was really the factor that pushed WN over the cliff to finally announcing Hawaii). Routes such as SJC-HNL etc.

TUSDawg23 · Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:45 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
MSP-LAX-HNL is overdue. I thought SY would go for it after they received ETOPS certification a while back.

TUSDawg23 wrote:
The thread title is sort of misleading because it's really MSP-HNL with a tech stop in LAX since the 737 doesn't have the legs to do that route nonstop in both directions. I guess I am just struggling to see how this can be profitable on a 737 for such a long stage-length and SY's fairly small domestic network which wouldn't provide a whole lot of feed for this flight. SY also has a pretty small fleet and this would be tying up a whole aircraft for just this route.

I think the MSP-MYR addition is a good one and will do ok for them.

When DL doesn't have a nonstop MSP-HNL, they offer a direct MSP-LAX-HNL. That direct flight has existed for years, and I remember both the nonstop and direct flight being offered on the same day. So there's no difference between what DL already does and SY is planning.

MSP to sunshine is SY's specialty, so I see this being something they could have been doing already. They don't need feed. They're looking for O&D. A red-eye back is also great for utilization. SY doesn't run many red-eyes, and their overall aircraft utilization is low. They need to bump that up. Aircraft availability isn't going to be an issue.

I'm more worried about MSP-MYR, especially after NK already announced it. That seems like too much, too soon.

lavalampluva wrote:
SY tried flights from MSP-London (technical stop in YQX) a few years ago. It didn't last long.

That was primarily for ETOPS certification. It wasn't intended to last.

MSP-MYR is a 2.5 hour flight to a growing and affordable beach destination with pretty low risk. I could see how NK could put some fare pressure on the route, but I think if they could sell some solid hotel packages with it, it could work out well for them.

I guess we can agree to disagree about MSP-HNL. I just don't see the yields being strong enough for such a long stage length in a 737. Seems like an expensive ordeal as well if one of their planes goes down in HNL for MX which is what hurt Allegiant on their Hawaii routes.

KanaHawaii · Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:09 pm

The devil is in the details on this announcement of their HNL service.

It is seasonal, taking advantage of the high point in the summer season when many fly to Hawaii for vacation. Furthermore, this makes sense as SY does have something of a presence in Honolulu currently with specific charters - you see their planes at the tarmac in Honolulu now and then. So they may want to better utilize what they have in Honolulu than just for one-off charters or DOJ transfers.

lavalampluva · Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:11 pm

MSPNWA wrote:

I'm more worried about MSP-MYR, especially after NK already announced it. That seems like too much, too soon.

lavalampluva wrote:
SY tried flights from MSP-London (technical stop in YQX) a few years ago. It didn't last long.

.

Also if you noticed SY is starting service a few days prior to NK. :lol:

flymco753 · Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:13 pm

Here goes MSP-MYR, I wouldn't be surprised if DL does it daily on an A320.

jumbojet · Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:18 pm

LAXintl wrote:
SY flight is about selling MSP-HNL. LAX is secondary, but with it being such a huge Hawaii market I doubt they will have much trouble selling a few dozen seats on the flight anyways.

MSP-HNL is served non-stop by DL, with an A330 to boot. Why in the world would someone want to throw in a Layover and nearly double the trip on a 747 non-the-less?

stlgph · Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:27 pm

jumbojet wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
SY flight is about selling MSP-HNL. LAX is secondary, but with it being such a huge Hawaii market I doubt they will have much trouble selling a few dozen seats on the flight anyways.

MSP-HNL is served non-stop by DL, with an A330 to boot. Why in the world would someone want to throw in a Layover and nearly double the trip on a 747 non-the-less?

Sometimes it's a better deal. That's why.

iflyalexair · Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:28 pm

allegiantflyer wrote:
Very interesting development, I hope SY has more success on this route as a ULCC than G4 did.

Allegiant has repeatedly stated that their LAS-HNL service was popular and profitable. When the 757s came up on their checks, they opted to retire them and thereby end HNL service.

MSPNWA · Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:30 pm

jumbojet wrote:
MSP-HNL is served non-stop by DL, with an A330 to boot. Why in the world would someone want to throw in a Layover and nearly double the trip on a 747 non-the-less?

Price. Desire to break-up a long flight into two stages. SY's product. Lots of potential reasons.

af773atmsp · Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:09 pm

I, and I'm sure a few other people, predicted SY would eventually launch a MSP-???-HNL service. Good to see a cheaper but still convenient alternative to the DL non-stop.

RWA380 · Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:12 pm

For those saying the 737 is too small, or that no one will want to fly a narrow body aircraft that far, remember TZ used to fly 757's MDW-PHX-HNL for years & those flights were packed out of MDW & PHX.

wedgetail737 · Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:11 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
AS flies 737’s from the West coast

Nurmerous airlines now fly narrowbodies from the mainland to HI nowadays including UA, AA, HA, AS (as you mentioned), WJ, DL and WN (soon). I've flown AS many times to HI and it's fine...especially the free Mai Tai toward the end of the flight!

sunking737 · Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:35 am

SY is flying 1 flight a day, four days a week. Why get all worked up over the fact they are flying LAX-HNL. I for one would rather fly on a 737 over a wide body cattle car. So many forget the fact DC-8 and 707 flew these routes years ago. I flew MSP-LAX-HNL on a Western 707. A few years later LAX-HNL on a Western DC-10. I loved the 707 more.

usxguy · Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:23 am

LAX/HNL for $298 one way on SY... United is charging $408 for a flight almost at the same time.

LAX-HNL is 1025A ar 110P
HNL-LAX is 210P arr 1045P

lavalampluva · Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 am

flyguy84 wrote:
If it’s just a technical stop wonder why they didn’t stop in ONT. Less congestion and can get in and out more quickly...

I was thinking BUR.

Midwestindy · Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:50 am

af773atmsp wrote:
I, and I'm sure a few other people, predicted SY would eventually launch a MSP-???-HNL service. Good to see a cheaper but still convenient alternative to the DL non-stop.

Probably would be pretty easy to predict considering they said they would be adding the route in 2018....

http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News ... un-Country

MSPNWA · Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:50 am

usxguy wrote:
LAX/HNL for $298 one way on SY... United is charging $408 for a flight almost at the same time.

LAX-HNL is 1025A ar 110P
HNL-LAX is 210P arr 1045P

Good price and I like the timing. My favorite time to arrive and leave is in the afternoon.

77H · Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:31 am

LAXintl wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
If it’s just a technical stop wonder why they didn’t stop in ONT. Less congestion and can get in and out more quickly...

Its not a tech stop. Its a revenue stop and MSP-LAX and LAX-HNL segments can be booked. SY already serves LAX.

Hell, in that case they should have went for MSP-SNA-HNL. I'm almost certain their 73G's are ETOPS as I recall seeing one in Hawaii before. Stopping in SNA would give MSP flies closer access to Disneyland and Orange County and no competition to HNL.

77H

77H · Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:32 am

jumbojet wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
SY flight is about selling MSP-HNL. LAX is secondary, but with it being such a huge Hawaii market I doubt they will have much trouble selling a few dozen seats on the flight anyways.

MSP-HNL is served non-stop by DL, with an A330 to boot. Why in the world would someone want to throw in a Layover and nearly double the trip on a 747 non-the-less?

Like this flight, DL's service is not year-around. Additionally, whats wrong with a little competition? Serious question and I mean no offense, but if this flight originated from a non-DL hub would you have posted for or against it?

77H

wedgetail737 · Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:50 am

RWA380 wrote:
For those saying the 737 is too small, or that no one will want to fly a narrow body aircraft that far, remember TZ used to fly 757's MDW-PHX-HNL for years & those flights were packed out of MDW & PHX.

Remember when people on this forum stated that they would NEVER fly on any airplane with less than three engines to Hawaii?? What's happened to that thought-process.

wedgetail737 · Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:51 am

77H wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
If it’s just a technical stop wonder why they didn’t stop in ONT. Less congestion and can get in and out more quickly...

Its not a tech stop. Its a revenue stop and MSP-LAX and LAX-HNL segments can be booked. SY already serves LAX.

Hell, in that case they should have went for MSP-SNA-HNL. I'm almost certain their 73G's are ETOPS as I recall seeing one in Hawaii before. Stopping in SNA would give MSP flies closer access to Disneyland and Orange County and no competition to HNL.

77H

SY would have to apply for slots at SNA first.

usxguy · Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:14 am

I believe they'd get the slots at SNA since its a new market, and new airline. However, I'm not sure the 73G is the optimal aircraft to make this work for SNA due to the departure issues. Even Southwest said they were going to send -800s to Hawai'i; and as far as I know, Alaska has only sent -800 and -900s over, despite having a very capable fleet of -700s

RWA380 · Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:27 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
For those saying the 737 is too small, or that no one will want to fly a narrow body aircraft that far, remember TZ used to fly 757's MDW-PHX-HNL for years & those flights were packed out of MDW & PHX.

Remember when people on this forum stated that they would NEVER fly on any airplane with less than three engines to Hawaii?? What's happened to that thought-process.

Yes I do & they don't have a choice any longer, unless they are coming from Tokyo on NH. Everything is twins, 777, 767, 757, 737, 717 or Airbus A-321, 320, 332, 333. The world is changing & so are the options. I loved flying the 747's but prefer the boarding process of a 737-800.

lavalampluva wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
If it’s just a technical stop wonder why they didn’t stop in ONT. Less congestion and can get in and out more quickly...

I was thinking BUR.

77H wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
If it’s just a technical stop wonder why they didn’t stop in ONT. Less congestion and can get in and out more quickly...

Its not a tech stop. Its a revenue stop and MSP-LAX and LAX-HNL segments can be booked. SY already serves LAX.

Hell, in that case they should have went for MSP-SNA-HNL. I'm almost certain their 73G's are ETOPS as I recall seeing one in Hawaii before. Stopping in SNA would give MSP flies closer access to Disneyland and Orange County and no competition to HNL.

77H

The 737-800 does not have the field performance for a mainland to Hawaii flight with all seats filled & baggage, otherwise there would be service by now from both BUR & SNA. Because SY has to make an enroute stop, LAX is clearly the best choice, with the largest O/D market to the Islands.

wedgetail737 · Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:54 am

usxguy wrote:
I believe they'd get the slots at SNA since its a new market, and new airline. However, I'm not sure the 73G is the optimal aircraft to make this work for SNA due to the departure issues. Even Southwest said they were going to send -800s to Hawai'i; and as far as I know, Alaska has only sent -800 and -900s over, despite having a very capable fleet of -700s

AS can't send the -700's to Hawaii because they do not meet the FAA ETOPS requirements, whereas most of the -800's and all of the -900ER's do (the standard -900's also do not have ETOPS).

As of SNA, SY may not have problems getting slot allocations at SNA but it only happens a couple of times per year. It's not an application process and get it in like 30 days.

slcdeltarumd11 · Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:17 am

SY is a very leisure heavy airline. I see no issue with them filling a 737 between MSP and HNL. Fares can be pretty low on this route connecting, so i guess we will see if fares hold up. I see no problems with them filling the plane, as others have said the stop in LAX is basically refueling, they can sell some fillers with ease.

lavalampluva · Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:35 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
usxguy wrote:
I believe they'd get the slots at SNA since its a new market, and new airline. However, I'm not sure the 73G is the optimal aircraft to make this work for SNA due to the departure issues. Even Southwest said they were going to send -800s to Hawai'i; and as far as I know, Alaska has only sent -800 and -900s over, despite having a very capable fleet of -700s

AS can't send the -700's to Hawaii because they do not meet the FAA ETOPS requirements, whereas most of the -800's and all of the -900ER's do (the standard -900's also do not have ETOPS).

As of SNA, SY may not have problems getting slot allocations at SNA but it only happens a couple of times per year. It's not an application process and get it in like 30 days.

Maybe, but I would think there are enough in northern LA to fill a 738 a few times a week. Plus a few of those seat will have pax from MSP who are flying through for a cheap fare. It’s just an idea, but SY already serves LAX so it makes sense to flight the flight from there to HNL.

77H · Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:09 am

usxguy wrote:
I believe they'd get the slots at SNA since its a new market, and new airline. However, I'm not sure the 73G is the optimal aircraft to make this work for SNA due to the departure issues. Even Southwest said they were going to send -800s to Hawai'i; and as far as I know, Alaska has only sent -800 and -900s over, despite having a very capable fleet of -700s

Quite the opposite. The 73G is perhaps the only optimal aircraft for SNA-Hawaii. It has the best take off performance of the 737NG line. AQ and CO->UA operated SNA-Hawaii with the 73G. As others have posted, AS have only sent 738 and 739 equipment because only those types are ETOPS certified. SY has ETOPS 73Gs if memory serves so they could operate the route, slots permitting.

I really wish UA would start it back up, especially with their Hawaii capacity increase that started today.

77H

ASFlyer · Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:11 am

SteveXC500 wrote:
AS flies 737’s from the West coast

as does DL, UA and AA, while VX has been flying A320's. It's nothing new at all.

usxguy · Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:33 am

Sorry, I should clarify. The 73G can't take a full load out of SNA to the islands, and the 73G isnt the optimal 737 for Hawaii, capacity wise.

nutsaboutplanes · Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:27 am

ASFlyer wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
AS flies 737’s from the West coast

as does DL, UA and AA, while VX has been flying A320's. It's nothing new at all.

AA is using the A321 and 772 from LAX to Hawaii. The 737’s don’t do Hawaii for AA. There is a sub fleet of specially equipped A321’s with the “H” designation that serve the route.

ASFlyer · Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:36 am

nutsaboutplanes wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
AS flies 737’s from the West coast

as does DL, UA and AA, while VX has been flying A320's. It's nothing new at all.

AA is using the A321 and 772 from LAX to Hawaii. The 737’s don’t do Hawaii for AA. There is a sub fleet of specially equipped A321’s with the “H” designation that serve the route.

Thanks for the correction, I was thinking of the 321’s I think.

737MAX7 · Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:51 am

Perhaps WN can serve Hawaii from SNA once the MAX 7 is on property?

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