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scbriml wrote:Plenty of people hope the order will be cancelled.
jubguy3 wrote:scbriml wrote:Plenty of people hope the order will be cancelled.
Why?
ADrum23 wrote:I haven't heard anything about this in quite some time. Does anyone know what the status is on the fate of the AA A350 order? If they cancel it, what will they replace it with?
tphuang wrote:ADrum23 wrote:I haven't heard anything about this in quite some time. Does anyone know what the status is on the fate of the AA A350 order? If they cancel it, what will they replace it with?
We already have an a350 AA thread.
This came out of your pure annoyance that Delta had the audacity to order Airbus or that Airbus might order more from Delta. Give it a rest. This is truly sad.
ADrum23 wrote:tphuang wrote:ADrum23 wrote:I haven't heard anything about this in quite some time. Does anyone know what the status is on the fate of the AA A350 order? If they cancel it, what will they replace it with?
We already have an a350 AA thread.
This came out of your pure annoyance that Delta had the audacity to order Airbus or that Airbus might order more from Delta. Give it a rest. This is truly sad.
1. Where is it?
2. Did I say anything about Delta at the top? No, this has nothing to do with that. I was just curious about what AA was doing with their A350s. What is truly sad is you jumping to conclusions.
tphuang wrote:ADrum23 wrote:tphuang wrote:We already have an a350 AA thread.
This came out of your pure annoyance that Delta had the audacity to order Airbus or that Airbus might order more from Delta. Give it a rest. This is truly sad.
1. Where is it?
2. Did I say anything about Delta at the top? No, this has nothing to do with that. I was just curious about what AA was doing with their A350s. What is truly sad is you jumping to conclusions.
Try google. There have been at least one recent thread on it after leeham had an article on fate of aa a350.
You started this question in the delta thread all because people suggested delta should get more a350 to replace 777. Give it a rest. This might be the first time I have seen a new thread created asking when an order might be cancelled because someone speculated that another airline might order a plane. Goodness, the audacity of airlines to order planes not designed by a domestic aircraft maker.
mikejepp wrote:Facts:
- AA management has stated they like the simplest fleet possible and do not want small batches of airplanes.
- AA flies few very long haul routes
- The order currently stands and no one that knows the details of if it will stay or not has said anything
With that, the only answers are purely guesses by the posters here.
I have a question though. Assume that Airbus does not allow the order to be swapped to another airframe or further delayed or canceled without massive penalties. Is there any chance that AA is able to sell / lease these aircraft to another airline upon delivery? ie: They get built according to the order but never end up flying in AA colors.
Other than that, AA most has a need to replace 767-300s and A330-300s. A350 seems like way too much airplane to do that with. I like the idea of the A330neo. Or even cheap new build A330ceos. I also like the idea of A321LRs and then a 787 top-up order for the widebody replacements. Or A321LRs and some 767-300ER new builds. But who knows...
I think it all comes down to the airline not needing the aircraft's capabilities and not wanting the expense and complexity of a new fleet. But trying to determine if the cost of canceling the order exceed those and the frustration of taking the plane. And very few people right now know the details of that.
trex8 wrote:mikejepp wrote:Facts:
- AA management has stated they like the simplest fleet possible and do not want small batches of airplanes.
- AA flies few very long haul routes
- The order currently stands and no one that knows the details of if it will stay or not has said anything
With that, the only answers are purely guesses by the posters here.
I have a question though. Assume that Airbus does not allow the order to be swapped to another airframe or further delayed or canceled without massive penalties. Is there any chance that AA is able to sell / lease these aircraft to another airline upon delivery? ie: They get built according to the order but never end up flying in AA colors.
Other than that, AA most has a need to replace 767-300s and A330-300s. A350 seems like way too much airplane to do that with. I like the idea of the A330neo. Or even cheap new build A330ceos. I also like the idea of A321LRs and then a 787 top-up order for the widebody replacements. Or A321LRs and some 767-300ER new builds. But who knows...
I think it all comes down to the airline not needing the aircraft's capabilities and not wanting the expense and complexity of a new fleet. But trying to determine if the cost of canceling the order exceed those and the frustration of taking the plane. And very few people right now know the details of that.
If they dont get the A350s, they will swap the order for more A321s or even A320s or pick up A330neos. Why bother with all the hassle of figuring out a way to pass on the planes to another operator without a financial penalty. Airbus will be happy to get earlier A350 slots for other airlines and a comparable in value A321/A330neo order is still money in the bank for A.
mikejepp wrote:There are rumors that Airbus has said they're not willing to negotiate this order anymore. No more delays, no swaps. Take the planes or pay the cancellation fee.
flee wrote:mikejepp wrote:There are rumors that Airbus has said they're not willing to negotiate this order anymore. No more delays, no swaps. Take the planes or pay the cancellation fee.
Yes, too many airlines are taking too many liberties! Airbus should probably tell AA that any order modification should be for their other widebody models - A330Neo, A350-1000 or A380. With the huge narrowbody backlog, Airbus does not really need more orders until they can increase output!
flee wrote:mikejepp wrote:There are rumors that Airbus has said they're not willing to negotiate this order anymore. No more delays, no swaps. Take the planes or pay the cancellation fee.
Yes, too many airlines are taking too many liberties! Airbus should probably tell AA that any order modification should be for their other widebody models - A330Neo, A350-1000 or A380. With the huge narrowbody backlog, Airbus does not really need more orders until they can increase output!
mikejepp wrote:flee wrote:mikejepp wrote:There are rumors that Airbus has said they're not willing to negotiate this order anymore. No more delays, no swaps. Take the planes or pay the cancellation fee.
Yes, too many airlines are taking too many liberties! Airbus should probably tell AA that any order modification should be for their other widebody models - A330Neo, A350-1000 or A380. With the huge narrowbody backlog, Airbus does not really need more orders until they can increase output!
The big question is, assuming it is true, AA only has 2 options...
1) Take the order
2) Cancel and pay the fines for doing so.
If they are forced to take the order, is there any possibility that they will place the airplanes elsewhere and never end up flying them?
Cointrin330 wrote:The A350 order will be decided once American Airlines determines what it will want to replace the 47 777-200ER's in the fleet.
keesje wrote:Cointrin330 wrote:The A350 order will be decided once American Airlines determines what it will want to replace the 47 777-200ER's in the fleet.
Yes, 787-10, 777-8 or A350-900. Now, what is the best aircraft for their Atlantic and Pacific flights?
The 777-8 I guess, because the 787-10 does not have the range to fly to Australia. It probably doesn't matter the 777-8 is heavy & expensive. It's a great alternative.
mikejepp wrote:The big question is, assuming it is true, AA only has 2 options...
1) Take the order
2) Cancel and pay the fines for doing so.
Planesmart wrote:If it's Boeing, and American really doesn't need the capacity, could be 787's that are cancelled, deferred or switched.
jfklganyc wrote:Dont the 350s go back to Airbus helping US out of BK many moons ago?
scbriml wrote:mikejepp wrote:The big question is, assuming it is true, AA only has 2 options...
1) Take the order
2) Cancel and pay the fines for doing so.
There's a third option - "do a United" and order more!
scbriml wrote:Planesmart wrote:If it's Boeing, and American really doesn't need the capacity, could be 787's that are cancelled, deferred or switched.
People have been burned at the stake for such heresy!
Boeing778X wrote:The key word is “cancel”, which I think is the wrong word.
Covert is better.
At this point, the A350 order will likely get swapped for something else. The 77Es can be replaced by additional 787s or the 777X.
What’s a pressing matter is the 757/767.
The order can be swapped for the A321LR to replace that bracket on the low end, or the A330neo on the high end.
But AA doesn’t need the A350. A330/787/777 for now.
Sorry if you Airbus fans don’t like that, but honestly, not every big airline needs the A350.scbriml wrote:mikejepp wrote:The big question is, assuming it is true, AA only has 2 options...
1) Take the order
2) Cancel and pay the fines for doing so.
There's a third option - "do a United" and order more!
But why?
They have plenty of 787 options.
Current:
763
A332
A333
788
789
77E
77W
Future:
A332
A330neo (?) Replaces 767-300
788
789 (Options exercised, replaces A330-300, 777-200ER
777
Simple, versatile, efficient.
keesje wrote:Cointrin330 wrote:The A350 order will be decided once American Airlines determines what it will want to replace the 47 777-200ER's in the fleet.
Yes, 787-10, 777-8 or A350-900. Now, what is the best aircraft for their Atlantic and Pacific flights?
The 777-8 I guess, because the 787-10 does not have the range to fly to Australia. It probably doesn't matter the 777-8 is heavy & expensive. It's a great alternative.
scbriml wrote:mikejepp wrote:The big question is, assuming it is true, AA only has 2 options...
1) Take the order
2) Cancel and pay the fines for doing so.
There's a third option - "do a United" and order more! They would almost certainly get better terms and be able to reschedule the deliveries to replace 77Es.
Newbiepilot wrote:It was for a much smaller US Airways fleet that at the only had 20 widebodies compared to AAs gigantic fleet.
Wacker1000 wrote:Newbiepilot wrote:It was for a much smaller US Airways fleet that at the only had 20 widebodies compared to AAs gigantic fleet.
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Boeing778X wrote:The key word is “cancel”, which I think is the wrong word.
Covert is better.
CX747 wrote:scbriml wrote:mikejepp wrote:The big question is, assuming it is true, AA only has 2 options...
1) Take the order
2) Cancel and pay the fines for doing so.
There's a third option - "do a United" and order more! They would almost certainly get better terms and be able to reschedule the deliveries to replace 77Es.
No A350s are on United's property. Many people missed the fact that United's management stated they pushed it off to give more time to see what Boeing could offer in return. That was drowned out unfortunately.
CX747 wrote:No A350s are on United's property. Many people missed the fact that United's management stated they pushed it off to give more time to see what Boeing could offer in return. That was drowned out unfortunately.
Eyad89 wrote:CX747 wrote:scbriml wrote:
There's a third option - "do a United" and order more! They would almost certainly get better terms and be able to reschedule the deliveries to replace 77Es.
No A350s are on United's property. Many people missed the fact that United's management stated they pushed it off to give more time to see what Boeing could offer in return. That was drowned out unfortunately.
What? Are you saying United increased its order of 35 A350s to 45 A350s because they wanted to see what Boeing would offer in return? Very uncanny.
ripcordd wrote:330 will go as well when the time is up and the 787 will replace them....I don't see a A330NEO I just see 787/777 for long haul very simple very flexible
Planesmart wrote:mikejepp wrote:flee wrote:Yes, too many airlines are taking too many liberties! Airbus should probably tell AA that any order modification should be for their other widebody models - A330Neo, A350-1000 or A380. With the huge narrowbody backlog, Airbus does not really need more orders until they can increase output!
The big question is, assuming it is true, AA only has 2 options...
1) Take the order
2) Cancel and pay the fines for doing so.
If they are forced to take the order, is there any possibility that they will place the airplanes elsewhere and never end up flying them?
The days of no cost deferrals and model hopping are over. By now, even for American.
Every time a customer defers, and/or model hops, and/or accepts compensation, contract T&C's tighten. These are prescribed, depending on in Boeing's case your Tier ranking (Airbus use similar). Both require Board approval to waive.
One unusual deciding factor could be who has the lowest cost escape clauses. If it's Boeing, and American really doesn't need the capacity, could be 787's that are cancelled, deferred or switched.
OA940 wrote:The whole story about American planes is a pile of you-know-what. End of argument. Whether an airline chooses one plane or another doesn't depend on the country of origin, but on if they can use it profitably, or if they can get more out of it than the competition. Hence the DL A321neo order, the UA A350 order, and AA going to Airbus for the A320 instead of more 737's.