SAS planning order for Scandinavian and European network

Mortyman · Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:32 pm

From an interview With the SAS ceo in Norwegian media today:

"We think that we need 40 to 50 Aircraft"

Shortly SAS will receives its advanced new long-haul Aircraft from Airbus. But before that, the company will probably add another giant billion order - to replace large parts of the European fleet.

It has been over four years since the last time SAS put in a large aircraft order.

Now it appears that 2018 may be the year when SAS enters its next.

Although the company receives a number of new A320neo aircraft, the company has a large Europe fleet that is beginning to ripen for replacement in a few years.

SAS already has an order from 2011 for 30 Airbus A320neo short-distance flights. 12 of these are delivered from 2016 and the last 18 will be delivered in the future. However, this is not enough.

The company already has an existing fleet of 24 aircraft in the Airbus A320 family (A319, A320 and A321). The average age of the 24 existing and the 12 new is at 8.5 years.

In addition, the company has 73 Boeing 737 aircraft of different types with different seat capacity, from the 737-600 model and up to -700 and -800 models.

The average age of these Boeing aircraft is 14.3 years.

- When is it appropriate to place an order?

"It's hard to say now, and there has been no purchase decision in the board. But we do not speak very far out in time and by summer 2018 we should have come quite far in the process at least, says SAS boss Rickard Gustafson.

Whether it be Boeing or Airbus aircraft is also not decided and the SAS boss is open to order either the A320neo family or the Boeing 737-Max.

As of today, SAS is based on having different types of the respective aircraft types, which means that they have larger and smaller aircraft depending on the traffic on the different routes, while the mechanics of the planes are relatively similar in the same family.

Norwegian has chosen another strategy in which the company has been heavily focused on the Boeing 737-800 model since its inception, so that it has the same model across.

- Will you continue with different capacities or drive the same aircraft model across?

"Today we have a mix in both the 737 and A320 families. A strategy can be to keep that layout or we can go towards a more uniform fleet. These are things we are discussing now and nothing is decided yet, "says Gustafson.

He adds that different solutions are now being discussed continuously in management and with the board.

Translated excerpts from article in Norwegian Language:

https://e24.no/boers-og-finans/sas/sas- ... y/24208745

Does SAS really need both Boeing 737 and Airbus 320 series in their fleet ?

ExMilitaryEng · Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:57 pm

How about that Cseries undisclosed European customer order? (Oops, SAS is not a new BBD customer...)

fessor · Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:40 am

doesn't SAS have 36 A320 family aircrafts ??

BWIAirport · Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:28 am

Comac C919? Anyone? Bueller?
But real talk, they've been one of the airlines I was surprised to not see a Max order from. With the new A320/21 neos coming in soon, the corresponding generation of 737s would make sense, considering their current fleet make-up.

behramjee · Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:40 am

CS3 is ideal to replace their entire B736/737 fleet with A320neos replacing B738s.

RalXWB · Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:56 am

This is Airbus´order to lose. From the C-series to the 321, they have the best narrowbody offering.

reidar76 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:19 am

It is the older 737's that will be replaced first. These are mainly of the -600 and -700 variant, while the -800 are newer. If SAS places an order for new 737's, it will be the only legacy EU-carrier that has the 737 on order. (?)

andymartin · Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:30 am

What is happening with SAS Ireland? A320N EI-SIA was delivered to ARN on 30th Nov but it hasnt moved since then?

BlueSky1976 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:23 am

reidar76 wrote:
It is the older 737's that will be replaced first. These are mainly of the -600 and -700 variant, while the -800 are newer. If SAS places an order for new 737's, it will be the only legacy EU-carrier that has the 737 on order. (?)

Nope. Lot is taking 737 MAXes and KLM will most likely stick with Boeing narrowbodies, too.
Then, there's Aeroflot and the like...

Someone83 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:56 am

andymartin wrote:
What is happening with SAS Ireland? A320N EI-SIA was delivered to ARN on 30th Nov but it hasnt moved since then?

And EI-SIB was delivered this week.

Anyway, some delays to the start up, so first commercial flights is scheduled later this December

Kikko19 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:06 am

They should go for cs100/300 for the thinner routes and A 321 also LR for the rest and lh thin routes.

Mortyman · Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:13 am

From what I understand from the article they are only considering Boeing 737 or Airbus 320 series

Someone83 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:19 am

Mortyman wrote:
From what I understand from the article they are only considering Boeing 737 or Airbus 320 series

Correct, both the SAS' CEO and their fleet director as late as Yesterday said the decision is between the A320neo-series and 737-MAX series.

They have even said thay haven't decided if they go for only one model (size) or several models from each family. If they go for one size it will either be the A320neo or 737-8MAX

Mortyman · Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:20 am

Would be nice to see some more Airbus 320's also in Norway. Too many Boeing 737's now that Norwegian has become so big ...

Someone83 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:22 am

reidar76 wrote:
It is the older 737's that will be replaced first. These are mainly of the -600 and -700 variant, while the -800 are newer. If SAS places an order for new 737's, it will be the only legacy EU-carrier that has the 737 on order. (?)

By the time any aircraft from this coming order is delivered, all -600 will have left the fleet. Right now, they are being replaced by A320neo and CRJ-900, the same with some of the oldest -700. A few (-700s) has already left the fleet.

Also, a few of their -800s are also about the same age as their -600/-700, with their oldest -800 approacing 18 years old

Kikko19 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:28 am

Sure, likely they'll use cityjet and others for thinner routes. I would like to see csxxx on sk livery though. As much as I like the crj I think it is time to move on.

Someone83 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:38 am

Kikko19 wrote:
As much as I like the crj I think it is time to move on.

Most of the CRJs are rather new, latest delivered last week. And more is coming in the near future

Mortyman · Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:55 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
Sure, likely they'll use cityjet and others for thinner routes. I would like to see csxxx on sk livery though. As much as I like the crj I think it is time to move on.

I hate the CRJ's ... Too cramped and the fact that you have to check in normal size handluggage is just silly !

Kikko19 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:07 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
Sure, likely they'll use cityjet and others for thinner routes. I would like to see csxxx on sk livery though. As much as I like the crj I think it is time to move on.

I hate the CRJ's ... Too cramped and the fact that you have to check in normal size handluggage is just silly !

Well out of TLL you get only those, still watch at the bright side: you seat on the aisle or window and the pitch is bigger than on other a/c. I'm still a fan of a32x though.
according to swedes CS are still in the game http://www.flygtorget.se/Aktuellt/Artik ... 27&KatID=1 I still see more A32x on the game (better than 73x IMHO)

Mortyman · Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:55 pm

So if they decide in 2018, how quick will the first Aircraft arrive ? What is the timeframe ?

Kikko19 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:00 pm

Exactly! There is a long waiting time for both 320 & 737 so why not Cs?

Someone83 · Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:02 pm

Mortyman wrote:
So if they decide in 2018, how quick will the first Aircraft arrive ? What is the timeframe ?

After the current NEO batch, so probably from 2021 or 2022

M564038 · Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:45 pm

Let’s hope this info is correct, if true they will finally rid themselves of those pesky, old 60’s dinosaurs:

Posted earlier today in a Norwegian forum, and suposedly from an internal SAS memo:

«We are happy to announce that we are now in final negotiations with Airbus for a large order of new short-haul aircraft.

We are happy to announce that we are now in final negotiations with Airbus, with the intention of signing a final agreement during spring 2018 for a large order of new short-haul aircraft.

The new aircraft will significantly reduce our environmental footprint and give operational advantages through reduced complexity by one-type fleet. This is historical for SAS, as we for the first time will have a production based on a one-type fleet in sight. Reaching this is key for us to enable optimized maintenance, improved traffic utilization and simplified crew planning.

For SAS, signing an agreement and delivery of new aircraft will be a prerequisite for continued operations at a maintained level. The Board of Director’s approval to initiate the process, has been enabled by positive response in the market and our ability to carry out the promised savings in the efficiency program, In Shape.

Going forward, SAS must continue its successful transition to capture the growing leisure market and adapt to seasonality in customer demand. In order to get approval from the Board to sign a final agreement with Airbus, we must confirm our promised In Shape savings and as the market is constantly changing, continue to work on our competitive position beyond 2020, when the deliveries of the new A320neo aircraft will ramp up.»

chiad · Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:59 pm

M564038 wrote:
Let’s hope this info is correct, if true they will finally rid themselves of those pesky, old 60’s dinosaurs:

Posted earlier today in a Norwegian forum, and suposedly from an internal SAS memo:

«We are happy to announce that we are now in final negotiations with Airbus for a large order of new short-haul aircraft.

We are happy to announce that we are now in final negotiations with Airbus, with the intention of signing a final agreement during spring 2018 for a large order of new short-haul aircraft.

The new aircraft will significantly reduce our environmental footprint and give operational advantages through reduced complexity by one-type fleet. This is historical for SAS, as we for the first time will have a production based on a one-type fleet in sight. Reaching this is key for us to enable optimized maintenance, improved traffic utilization and simplified crew planning.

For SAS, signing an agreement and delivery of new aircraft will be a prerequisite for continued operations at a maintained level. The Board of Director’s approval to initiate the process, has been enabled by positive response in the market and our ability to carry out the promised savings in the efficiency program, In Shape.

Going forward, SAS must continue its successful transition to capture the growing leisure market and adapt to seasonality in customer demand. In order to get approval from the Board to sign a final agreement with Airbus, we must confirm our promised In Shape savings and as the market is constantly changing, continue to work on our competitive position beyond 2020, when the deliveries of the new A320neo aircraft will ramp up.»

Thanks for the update M564038.
Sounds like another NEO order is on the steps.

bgm · Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:14 pm

chiad wrote:
M564038 wrote:
Let’s hope this info is correct, if true they will finally rid themselves of those pesky, old 60’s dinosaurs:

Posted earlier today in a Norwegian forum, and suposedly from an internal SAS memo:

«We are happy to announce that we are now in final negotiations with Airbus for a large order of new short-haul aircraft.

We are happy to announce that we are now in final negotiations with Airbus, with the intention of signing a final agreement during spring 2018 for a large order of new short-haul aircraft.

The new aircraft will significantly reduce our environmental footprint and give operational advantages through reduced complexity by one-type fleet. This is historical for SAS, as we for the first time will have a production based on a one-type fleet in sight. Reaching this is key for us to enable optimized maintenance, improved traffic utilization and simplified crew planning.

For SAS, signing an agreement and delivery of new aircraft will be a prerequisite for continued operations at a maintained level. The Board of Director’s approval to initiate the process, has been enabled by positive response in the market and our ability to carry out the promised savings in the efficiency program, In Shape.

Going forward, SAS must continue its successful transition to capture the growing leisure market and adapt to seasonality in customer demand. In order to get approval from the Board to sign a final agreement with Airbus, we must confirm our promised In Shape savings and as the market is constantly changing, continue to work on our competitive position beyond 2020, when the deliveries of the new A320neo aircraft will ramp up.»

Thanks for the update M564038.
Sounds like another NEO order is on the steps.

Great news. Hopefully it's true. It makes sense for SK to standardize their fleet, and the A320 series is very welcome from a passenger perspective.

TC957 · Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:28 pm

So that mysterious 31-frame C-series order for an unidentified customer isn't SAS are many on here predicted then.

Luisvalero · Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:49 pm

I don't understand why SAS doesn't serves ARN-MAD & CPH-MAD

Someone83 · Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:51 pm

Luisvalero wrote:
I don't understand why SAS doesn't serves ARN-MAD & CPH-MAD

They have tried several times

Bostrom · Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:17 pm

Very good news if true! And I hope there is a couple of A321neos included in the order.

Someone83 · Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:20 pm

Potential order is between 40 and 50 aircraft, and SAS has confirmed it is only Airbus that is left in the competition. However, a final order will not come untill spring, and is also dependent on their own cost efficiency program

RalXWB · Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:24 pm

A NEO order combined with some C-Series would be great...Still crazy that the 320s will soon have catched up in reality in terms of total sales...

Bricktop · Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:01 pm

RalXWB wrote:
A NEO order combined with some C-Series would be great...Still crazy that the 320s will soon have catched up in reality in terms of total sales...

Not really when you consider the size of the market now versus historic. Impressive for sure, but not crazily so.

I went on teh googles and found this cool link
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IS.AIR.PSGR

It's actually quite stunning.

Oykie · Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:04 pm

Interesting development. Finally, SAS may have a streamlined narrow body fleet. Not counting CRJ that are outsourced flying. I do hope their order will fully replace their 737NG.

Mortyman · Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:18 pm

SAS chooses Airbus: Is in final negotiations for new airlcraft purchase

E24 gets confirmed that Boeing is out of the dance. SAS is in final negotiations with Airbus about a giant aircraft order, but the purchase is dependant on SAS to reach the savings targets set in by the managment.

In an internal email to the employees Wednesday, SAS's management writes that they are now in final negotiations with Airbus about a new Aircraft order.

"We are pleased to announce that we are now in the final negotiations with Airbus, with the aim of signing a final agreement in the spring of 2018 on a large order of new medium haul aircraft, SAS writes in the e-mail to the employees.

Thus, Boeing has been dropped in favor of the European manufacturer when SAS now has to book somewhere between 40 and 50 aircraft for the short and mid-range fleet. The price tag will probably end between 25 and 30 billion Swedish kronor depending on discounts.

"The decision will be taken by the board in a couple of months, provided that it also meets the goals set in the InShape restructuring program, where there is a plan of reaching efficiency of 2.2 billion Swedish Kroner," Johansen explains.

https://e24.no/boers-og-finans/sas/sas- ... r/24235211

Bostrom · Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:25 pm

Oykie wrote:
Interesting development. Finally, SAS may have a streamlined narrow body fleet. Not counting CRJ that are outsourced flying. I do hope their order will fully replace their 737NG.

They have stated that they intend to replace all the 737s with this order. So it looks like their intra-european fleet will be 70-80 A320neo-series and 24 ceos when they are delivered (with wetleased CRJs and ATRs).

Kikko19 · Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:01 pm

Some 15/20 A 321LR for this routes would be the best. From got and bg would come very handy. Ot: more A350 (a339) as well?

Oykie · Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:08 am

[photoid][/photoid]

Bostrom wrote:
Oykie wrote:
Interesting development. Finally, SAS may have a streamlined narrow body fleet. Not counting CRJ that are outsourced flying. I do hope their order will fully replace their 737NG.

They have stated that they intend to replace all the 737s with this order. So it looks like their intra-european fleet will be 70-80 A320neo-series and 24 ceos when they are delivered (with wetleased CRJs and ATRs).

I was not aware that they would reduce the number of mainline flying. Thanks for the update.

oslmgm · Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:51 am

Oykie wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
Bostrom wrote:
Oykie wrote:
Interesting development. Finally, SAS may have a streamlined narrow body fleet. Not counting CRJ that are outsourced flying. I do hope their order will fully replace their 737NG.

They have stated that they intend to replace all the 737s with this order. So it looks like their intra-european fleet will be 70-80 A320neo-series and 24 ceos when they are delivered (with wetleased CRJs and ATRs).

I was not aware that they would reduce the number of mainline flying. Thanks for the update.

It's roughly the same number as they have today - just above 100 A320s + 737s

Bostrom · Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:53 am

oslmgm wrote:
Oykie wrote:
Bostrom wrote:

They have stated that they intend to replace all the 737s with this order. So it looks like their intra-european fleet will be 70-80 A320neo-series and 24 ceos when they are delivered (with wetleased CRJs and ATRs).

I was not aware that they would reduce the number of mainline flying. Thanks for the update.

It's roughly the same number as they have today - just above 100 A320s + 737s

And some 737-600 routes have been downgraded to CRJs (not a huge reduction in capacity to be honest).

B747forever · Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:55 am

I was really hoping for SAS to go with the 737MAX, though I understand it is a sensible choice to go with one type of short haul fleet. SKs fleet will look similar to AYs with all Airbus (A320s/A330/A350).

Samrnpage · Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:37 am

I wonder why they didnt go for the MAX? Boeing seems to be losing these battles recenty. I thought the Max would suit SAS over the NEO.

787Driver · Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:49 am

B747forever wrote:
I was really hoping for SAS to go with the 737MAX, though I understand it is a sensible choice to go with one type of short haul fleet. SKs fleet will look similar to AYs with all Airbus (A320s/A330/A350).

Why? The 737 is a much older design and the cabin is narrower. I think Airbus has the superior single aisle aircraft.

LPSHobby · Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:31 am

in ATW they ar talking about 40/50 A320neo

http://atwonline.com/airframes/sas-fina ... 0neo-order

Mortyman · Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:58 am

B747forever wrote:
I was really hoping for SAS to go with the 737MAX, though I understand it is a sensible choice to go with one type of short haul fleet. SKs fleet will look similar to AYs with all Airbus (A320s/A330/A350).

Some of their Boeing 737-800's are fairly new and so they will most likely stay in the fleet for a while yet.

scbriml · Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:07 am

Mortyman wrote:
Some of their Boeing 737-800's are fairly new and so they will most likely stay in the fleet for a while yet.

Of course. These fleet roll-overs take years to complete. It's not as though their new A320neos will all be delivered at once. Look how long it took BA and LH to get rid of their last few 737s before they became all-A320 operators.

Kikko19 · Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:58 pm

If sas wants to grow either will get more or get more subfleet like cs100/300 that would be perfect as shuttle between Arn/osl/cph or at least ask WY Or others to fly them for SK...

eicvd · Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:38 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
I wonder why they didnt go for the MAX? Boeing seems to be losing these battles recenty. I thought the Max would suit SAS over the NEO.

Why would it suit them more? They’re already flying the NEO as well as having quite a few A319/320/321 in the fleet.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net