Vietnam Airlines studying A350-1000 and 777X for non stop flights to the US

qf789 · Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:44 am

Vietnam Airlines in currently studying both the A350-1000 and 777X for non stop flights from Vietnam to the US.

Currently they are only looking for 4 aircraft and hope to start services by the end of 2019 which favors the A350-1000 of which they are looking at starting SGN-LAX.

Vietnam is also expected to receive FAA Category 1 status by May 2018

The Skyteam carrier is assessing both the Boeing 777X and Airbus A350-1000 for the 7,098nm Ho Chi Minh City-Los Angeles route, says Vietnam Airlines executive vice president Le Hong Ha.
"The flight time is quite long, more than 16 hours," he says. "The sellable payload is very important to us, so we are studying what aircraft, based on performance, allows us to launch the route by the end of 2019."

The possible acquisition would entail four aircraft. Should the 777X be selected, the aircraft is only likely to be available for Vietnam Airlines in 2021.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -s-444077/

CRJ900 · Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:56 am

Great to see the A350-1000 being mentioned, we hear very little about this aircraft. Would VN ask Airbus for the 316 tonne version?

kurtverbose · Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:16 am

Considering Boeing won't be able to make the 2019 deadline, and they'd be operating a small subfleet if they did choose the 777X, it doesn't sound much of a contest does it?

Eyad89 · Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:20 am

Just wondering, since VN took in some of the first A359s, does anyone know their OEW?

KarelXWB · Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:20 am

Carrier already signed a MoU for the A350 to enable long-haul routes to the US.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 35-429057/

These would be the 280t models.

https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... der-300912

Vietnam Airlines on 6-Sep-2016 signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Airbus for 10 280-tonne max take-off weight (MTOW) A350-900s for delivery from 2020. The new deal supplements earlier commitments for 24 A350-900s with the original 268 tonne MTOW. Four of these aircraft have already been delivered and are used on European routes.

Airbus announced in Mar-2016 the availability of the new higher gross weight 280-tonne A350-900 from 2020, essentially boosting the aircraft’s range by approximately 1000km. The new 280-tonne variant opens up several potential ultra long-range routes which were not feasible with the existing 268-tonne and 275-tonne versions – at least not economically feasible when factoring in payload limitations. Ho Chi Minh-Los Angeles is one such route.

If VN needs just 4 additional aircraft in 2019, perhaps adding more A350s makes more sense.

jfk777 · Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:29 pm

Would a 787-9 work on this route ? Maybe nonstop to Los Angeles and a stop in Honolulu( or nonstop) on the way back. This works best for Vietnam airlines without having to get a new type of plane into their fleet since they already have 787-9 and A350-900's. The 777-9 seems like too much airplane for Vietnam Air, given how long a flight would be little cargo could be flown. Another issue is the seating configuration, Vietnam would have to a small J class cabin so a 777-9 would have close to 400 seats or more. Is that really viable ? A 787-9 is probably their best option.

kmz · Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:45 pm

They also have B787-10 on order

behramjee · Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:37 pm

The A351 wont be able to fly 15-16.5 hours nonstop with a full payload no matter what Airbus tells VN. The A359 can do it for VN as can the B789 but neither will the B781 nor A351 !

Cant VN order the A359ULR and just focus its WB fleet around the A350/B787 families rather than add a 3rd variant i.e. B77X ?

rnav2dlrey · Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:50 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Would a 787-9 work on this route ? Maybe nonstop to Los Angeles and a stop in Honolulu( or nonstop) on the way back. This works best for Vietnam airlines without having to get a new type of plane into their fleet since they already have 787-9 and A350-900's. The 777-9 seems like too much airplane for Vietnam Air, given how long a flight would be little cargo could be flown. Another issue is the seating configuration, Vietnam would have to a small J class cabin so a 777-9 would have close to 400 seats or more. Is that really viable ? A 787-9 is probably their best option.

the 789 could theoretically fly LAX-SGN today. UA flies it LAX-SIN, which is 600mi farther.

WIederling · Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:16 pm

behramjee wrote:
The A351 wont be able to fly 15-16.5 hours nonstop with a full payload no matter what Airbus tells VN. The A359 can do it for VN as can the B789 but neither will the B781 nor A351 !

Cant VN order the A359ULR and just focus its WB fleet around the A350/B787 families rather than add a 3rd variant i.e. B77X ?

Both: MTOW limit and fuel limit corners on the A350-1000 are further out than on the 789 ( 400nm, payload delta ~~constant @10t)

mercure1 · Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:19 pm

VN application for US service calls for LAX nonstop service using A359

Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX
viewtopic.php?t=1347437

Eyad89 · Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:21 pm

behramjee wrote:
The A351 wont be able to fly 15-16.5 hours nonstop with a full payload no matter what Airbus tells VN. The A359 can do it for VN as can the B789 but neither will the B781 nor A351 !

Cant VN order the A359ULR and just focus its WB fleet around the A350/B787 families rather than add a 3rd variant i.e. B77X ?

A350-1000 has more range than 789.

Armodeen · Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:22 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Would a 787-9 work on this route ? Maybe nonstop to Los Angeles and a stop in Honolulu( or nonstop) on the way back. This works best for Vietnam airlines without having to get a new type of plane into their fleet since they already have 787-9 and A350-900's. The 777-9 seems like too much airplane for Vietnam Air, given how long a flight would be little cargo could be flown. Another issue is the seating configuration, Vietnam would have to a small J class cabin so a 777-9 would have close to 400 seats or more. Is that really viable ? A 787-9 is probably their best option.

Both the 789 and A359 (280t) can do what they are asking but it seems they want a larger aircraft.

LAX772LR · Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:25 pm

behramjee wrote:
Cant VN order the A359ULR

Not sure why they'd bother, as it doesn't offer them anything that a standard 280T A359 wouldn't.

...seeing as VN would likely require a much denser cabin than the likes of SQ, considering how low fares between the USA and Vietnam are and will likely remain.

Devilfish · Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:53 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Cant VN order the A359ULR

Not sure why they'd bother, as it doesn't offer them anything that a standard 280T A359 wouldn't.

...seeing as VN would likely require a much denser cabin than the likes of SQ, considering how low fares between the USA and Vietnam are and will likely remain.

Precisely the reason cited in the linked CAPA article.....

Quote:
"However the 280 tonne non ULR variant is a more sensible option given that Vietnam Airlines will need a relatively dense configuration to be profitable in the US market. The A350-900ULR has the same 280 tonne MTOW with modified fuel tanks that limit the capacity.

Vietnam Airlines could have also potentially pursued US flights with its current A350 fleet by compromising on seating density or selecting a shorter route – such as Hanoi-Los Angeles. However these would not have been smart compromises given that the the Vietnam-US market is overwhelmingly from Ho Chi Minh and consists predominately of leisure traffic."

I'd add VFR traffic to that. Perhaps the -ULR might happen if VN wished to fly to the East Coast nonstop, though I doubt the demand from/to Vietnam there is viable enough.....

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=JFK-HAN%2C ... =wls&DU=nm

ikolkyo · Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:34 pm

#VietnamAirlines has preliminary deal for @BoeingAirplanes #777X. Specifically, 777-8s. #avgeek #Boeing #777X

https://twitter.com/StratAero/status/961284699258851328

Not much info surrounding this currently but still a nice topic to chat about, If this comes to fruition these would probably be used for US flights.

I'll also add a rumor tag until better sources come about.

BlueSky1976 · Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:30 pm

The source isn't legit. It's well-known Boeing-paid lobbyist Saj Ahmad.

ap305 · Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:38 pm

This preliminary deal is 3 years old and they signed another deal for a350s after this... Both are not firm.

Strato2 · Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:45 pm

Strataero. :rotfl:

Ufsatp · Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:12 pm

[*]

BlueSky1976 wrote:
The source isn't legit. It's well-known Boeing-paid lobbyist Saj Ahmad.

It was taken from a Bloomberg article.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true

hayzel777 · Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:15 pm

They openly admitted they won't be profitable but they will still serve North America. Perhaps Fair Skies will jump in? :stirthepot:

Boy do I love state airlines.

5427247845 · Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:28 pm

Ufsatp wrote:
[*]
BlueSky1976 wrote:
The source isn't legit. It's well-known Boeing-paid lobbyist Saj Ahmad.

It was taken from a Bloomberg article.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true

Boeing is lobbying for VN to get a Category 1 ranking and in return VN is buying the 778. No way Airbus could have won this.

Stitch · Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:45 pm

marcelh wrote:
Boeing is lobbying for VN to get a Category 1 ranking and in return VN is buying the 778. No way Airbus could have won this.

VN have stated that both their 787 and A350 orders were driven in part by politics to help address Vietnam's balance of trade with the US and the EU so that ship has already sailed.

And considering VN already has the 787 in their fleet and on order, that should be sufficient quid pro quo.

5427247845 · Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:01 pm

Stitch wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Boeing is lobbying for VN to get a Category 1 ranking and in return VN is buying the 778. No way Airbus could have won this.

VN have stated that both their 787 and A350 orders were driven in part by politics to help address Vietnam's balance of trade with the US and the EU so that ship has already sailed.

And considering VN already has the 787 in their fleet and on order, that should be sufficient quid pro quo.

Should VN still get the Category 1 rating when they order the A350-1000 for their expansion to the US?
I don't think so, but I might be wrong. If this succeeds, VN has made a very nice package deal.

WIederling · Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:59 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Strataero.

Boeing mouth piece.
He seems to have been primed by his bosses on the DAS bruhaha that culminated in the 787-10 sales.

MY guess is he will funnel further preinfo on other MAGA sales.

Stitch · Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:46 am

marcelh wrote:
Should VN still get the Category 1 rating when they order the A350-1000 for their expansion to the US? I don't think so, but I might be wrong. If this succeeds, VN has made a very nice package deal.

There would be no reason for the FAA to deny them Category 1 if the Vietnamese show that they meet the criteria.

MrHMSH · Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:14 am

behramjee wrote:
The A351 wont be able to fly 15-16.5 hours nonstop with a full payload no matter what Airbus tells VN. The A359 can do it for VN as can the B789 but neither will the B781 nor A351 !

Cant VN order the A359ULR and just focus its WB fleet around the A350/B787 families rather than add a 3rd variant i.e. B77X ?

Neither the 789 or A359 will fly 16.5hrs nonstop with a full payload either. The A35K can make LAX from SGN and HAN.

zeke · Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:34 am

The 359 will fly 16.5 hrs with a full passenger payload, we are doing that already.

5427247845 · Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:58 am

Stitch wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Should VN still get the Category 1 rating when they order the A350-1000 for their expansion to the US? I don't think so, but I might be wrong. If this succeeds, VN has made a very nice package deal.

There would be no reason for the FAA to deny them Category 1 if the Vietnamese show that they meet the criteria.

But I don't understand why Boeing wants to play an active part in this process. It's like Airbus is trying to convince the German authorities to give EK more landing rights as they can sell more A380s.

Stitch · Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:51 pm

marcelh wrote:
But I don't understand why Boeing wants to play an active part in this process. It's like Airbus is trying to convince the German authorities to give EK more landing rights as they can sell more A380s.

FAA Category 1 means that a county's civil aviation authority complies with International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standards. The ICAO establishes international standards and recommended practices for aircraft operations and maintenance so it stands to reason that as VN operates Boeing aircraft, Boeing could and would help a country's civil aviation authority comply with those standards and practices. As would Airbus, I imagine, as VN also operates Airbus aircraft (and these might operate US routes).

Momo1435 · Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:01 pm

Boeing is very keen on growing it's aftermarket support and services business. So on top of a possible 777X order it's also a matter of trying to secure deals for Boeing Global Services. Especially in places where Boeing can offer products to directly resolve the issues that are now preventing Vietnam as a country to reach the Category 1 status.

jfk777 · Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:34 am

A 787-9 could do LAX to Virtnam since some longer flights like Qantas from Perth to LHR are coming. The issue is what is the configuration, can Vietnam sell enough J class and Y+ seats to make the flights viable. Vietnam is also a market where every airline from Thailand to Japan is selling a connection. Wishing Vietnam every success but please fly ti America for profitale reasons not political ones.

qf789 · Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:41 am

jfk777 wrote:
A 787-9 could do LAX to Virtnam since some longer flights like Qantas from Perth to LHR are coming. The issue is what is the configuration, can Vietnam sell enough J class and Y+ seats to make the flights viable. Vietnam is also a market where every airline from Thailand to Japan is selling a connection. Wishing Vietnam every success but please fly ti America for profitale reasons not political ones.

Vietnam Airlines configure their 789's into 2 different configurations that being 28J35W211Y and 28J283Y where as QF 789 configuration is 42J28W166Y. Personally I cant see VN having amore premium configuration

ikolkyo · Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:56 am

I thought I read on here that VN 789s are of a lower operating weight, any truth to that?

mptpa · Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:57 am

jfk777 wrote:
Would a 787-9 work on this route ? Maybe nonstop to Los Angeles and a stop in Honolulu( or nonstop) on the way back. This works best for Vietnam airlines without having to get a new type of plane into their fleet since they already have 787-9 and A350-900's. The 777-9 seems like too much airplane for Vietnam Air, given how long a flight would be little cargo could be flown. Another issue is the seating configuration, Vietnam would have to a small J class cabin so a 777-9 would have close to 400 seats or more. Is that really viable ? A 787-9 is probably their best option.

I would think it does since UA flies 789 on LAX-SIN and SGN is a bit closer, so it should work, would it not???

flyingclrs727 · Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:16 am

I wonder if there's any chance they add an SGN-IAH route? It's about 1,000 miles longer than SGN-LAX.

LAX772LR · Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:09 am

mptpa wrote:
I would think it does since UA flies 789 on LAX-SIN and SGN is a bit closer, so it should work, would it not???

There's no question that it can physically be done.

What remains to be seen is just how much money VN loses by trying this.

flyingclrs727 wrote:
I wonder if there's any chance they add an SGN-IAH route?

Not any time soon, as both the Greater Los Angeles and San Francisco Bay markets are orders of magnitude larger... and closer.

idp5601 · Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:54 am

jfk777 wrote:
Vietnam is also a market where every airline from Thailand to Japan is selling a connection.

Just FYI: there have been no non-stop flights from Thailand to the US mainland ever since TG pulled out of BKK-LAX.

cpthuy · Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:37 pm

I heard that when the Civil Aviation Administration of Vietnam get approve for the FAA Cat 1, they will start flying to US (with a possible refuel stop at Japan), even if they suffer losses in the first couple years.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net