Malaysia Airlines says it has ditched plans for a new airline operating high density seating dedicated to Islamic pilgrimages but instead will use the A380's across its network to add capacity during periods of high demand.

Along with LHR, NRT, ICN, SYD & MEL will see A380 flights along with charters to the Middle East

https://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-airli ... -to-london

see, I won't believe what MH said until the plan actually happened

What a mess.

Having a hard time figuring out what lemonade to make with its lemons.

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

Can't say I'm surprised, they've been suggesting A380 loads are healthy for the past year or two.

Nor am I, honestly. The problem with the A380 is that it is such a big jump in capacity over any other aircraft on the market. Thus some airlines will struggle to fill them. Looking at MH, they had all their A380s delivered over a relatively short period of time (2012/2013), which probably made them difficult to fill. A year later they had MH370 and MH17 which destroyed both the loadfactors and the yields of their longhaul network. This was the point when the airline was really struggling.

A few years later, the airline has reorganised (MAS -> MAB), adapted, regained the trust of the travelling public and load factors have recovered. I'm sure that the A380 works for the airline much better now than it did a few years ago.

Thai was also really struggling to fill their A380s a few years ago, but their network has adapted, traffic has grown and things seem to be working out for them just fine.

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

Heres hoping that A350s will help open up AMS or CDG again.

I wish them the best.

MH is a real mess thanks to the A380. They haven’t got a clue what to do with the odd ball in their fleet.
Operating the aircraft on key routes and scheduling based on demand is a wise move. Let’s see how long this plan will last.

EK413

qf789 wrote:

Malaysia Airlines says it has ditched plans for a new airline operating high density seating dedicated to Islamic pilgrimages but instead will use the A380's across its network to add capacity during periods of high demand.

Along with LHR, NRT, ICN, SYD & MEL will see A380 flights along with charters to the Middle East

https://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-airli ... -to-london

Using them during periods of high demand? What a novel idea! Move them off the prestige routes, and nimbly shift capacity to match the seasonal demands and accept a few months a year no where will fill them!

I find ICN an odd choice for MH to serve with A380s, especially without a local partner. Is there that much demand between KL and Seoul?

New CEO, new ideas.
Peter Bellew has some interesting ideas, but with his return to Ryanair....

EddieDude wrote:

I find ICN an odd choice for MH to serve with A380s, especially without a local partner. Is there that much demand between KL and Seoul?

Yes. KUL-ICN is 10x weekly on MH, 18x weekly on D7 and 7x weekly on KE.
MH has already used the A380 on KUL-ICN this past August and September.

EK413 wrote:

MH is a real mess thanks to the A380. They haven’t got a clue what to do with the odd ball in their fleet.
Operating the aircraft on key routes and scheduling based on demand is a wise move. Let’s see how long this plan will last.

EK413

Thanks to the A380? Seriously, if an airline is a mess because of six (!!) copies of any airplane, it most probably isn't viable in the first place.
Yes, might have been a suboptimal choice for them. But it certainly doesn't make or break MH.

What a basket case of an airline. They make Air India look like professionals.

LTenEleven wrote:

New CEO, new ideas.
Peter Bellew has some interesting ideas, but with his return to Ryanair....

Exactly they can ditch their stupid plan now Bellew has been pushed out. They need to make full use of their best assets.

Geoff

Nicoeddf wrote:

EK413 wrote:

MH is a real mess thanks to the A380. They haven’t got a clue what to do with the odd ball in their fleet.
Operating the aircraft on key routes and scheduling based on demand is a wise move. Let’s see how long this plan will last.

EK413

Thanks to the A380? Seriously, if an airline is a mess because of six (!!) copies of any airplane, it most probably isn't viable in the first place.
Yes, might have been a suboptimal choice for them. But it certainly doesn't make or break MH.

Wasn't there a quote somewhere from a few years back that the A380 was actually a profitable plane for them? According to airfleets they have 11 stores 77E's, if the A380 had been the problem, if it's capacity had been the problem, they would be in storage and not the half as big, flexible 77E.

Best regards
Thomas

mercure1 wrote:

What a mess.

Having a hard time figuring out what lemonade to make with its lemons.

The result of a new CEO every 12 to 24 months.

Well since they have 6 A380's and all those routes specified, they have enough to operate all those routes daily year round.

LHR x2 A380, 1 daily flight
NRT x1 A380, 1 daily flight
ICN x1 A380, 1 daily flight
SYD x1 A380, 1 daily flight
MEL x1 A380, 1 daily flight

There would be enough slack in the fleet to do the ad hoc charters if they schedule the rotations effectively where the same plane does LHR-KUL-MEL or SYD-KUL-NRT for example.

Luckly they had not began the reconfiguration of their A380s otherwise they will waste their money again.

So they are too valuable to use on the Hajj/Umrah flights, but not valuable enough to stay on the flagship route to LHR. Still can't sell them, not worth the cost of refitting the cabin to haul the pilgrims en masse, but not the right aircraft for the flagship route all year round. Maybe if they reconfigure the premium seats to what the 350 has, then we may get a true indication what MH will do with the 380 long term, meanwhile it is a burden around the neck of MH and the route/fleet planners there.

But then, give it another 6-12 months and there will be another plan for them.

and meanwhile the A350's are being delivered with a first class cabin, which is likely not needed if the A380's are retained, as these will continue to fly the premium routes where there is F demand...

all a bit messy!

The article also mentions a possible cabin refresh:

The airline is also understood to be weighing up the merits of a refresh for the A380 if it is to remain flying as Malaysia Airlines’ flagship,

Nicoeddf wrote:

EK413 wrote:

MH is a real mess thanks to the A380. They haven’t got a clue what to do with the odd ball in their fleet.
Operating the aircraft on key routes and scheduling based on demand is a wise move. Let’s see how long this plan will last.

EK413

Thanks to the A380? Seriously, if an airline is a mess because of six (!!) copies of any airplane, it most probably isn't viable in the first place.
Yes, might have been a suboptimal choice for them. But it certainly doesn't make or break MH.

6 x A380 doesn’t make or break MH then again the amount $$$ invested in the Fleet certainly make the carrier bleed.

tommy1808 wrote:

Nicoeddf wrote:

EK413 wrote:

MH is a real mess thanks to the A380. They haven’t got a clue what to do with the odd ball in their fleet.
Operating the aircraft on key routes and scheduling based on demand is a wise move. Let’s see how long this plan will last.

EK413

Thanks to the A380? Seriously, if an airline is a mess because of six (!!) copies of any airplane, it most probably isn't viable in the first place.
Yes, might have been a suboptimal choice for them. But it certainly doesn't make or break MH.

Wasn't there a quote somewhere from a few years back that the A380 was actually a profitable plane for them? According to airfleets they have 11 stores 77E's, if the A380 had been the problem, if it's capacity had been the problem, they would be in storage and not the half as big, flexible 77E.

Best regards
Thomas

I don’t recall any article mentioning the aircraft was profitable considering they have half their fleet already parked at KUL.

EK413

No surprises here.

There has never been much serious belief within the company in the Hajj/Umrah project. Codenamed Project Hope but often being called Project Hopeless.

Best for most involved for the moment. The aircraft will be used in much the same way the B744 was in it's last years and the Malaysian government will be spared the embarrassment of having 6 A380s sitting idle for all to see at KLIA. But the Malaysian taxpayers can't be too happy, c'est la vie.

KarelXWB wrote:

The article also mentions a possible cabin refresh:

The airline is also understood to be weighing up the merits of a refresh for the A380 if it is to remain flying as Malaysia Airlines’ flagship,

It would be good if they can consider having similar products to the A350 for first and business. In the economy cabin, perhaps they can introduce a section with extra leg room - just like on the A350.

EK413 wrote:

6 x A380 doesn’t make or break MH then again the amount $$$ invested in the Fleet certainly make the carrier bleed.

EK413

Oh, not saying it was a wise move to acquire a few. Not saying it wasn't as well - how can one know with MH.

Just don't think your "thanks to the A380" was justified. They are apparently simply a mismanaged airline with too much state intervention. I am quite convinced they wouldn't make a ton of money with pretty much any aircraft plying the skies.

EK413 wrote:

6 x A380 doesn’t make or break MH then again the amount $$$ invested in the Fleet certainly make the carrier bleed.

if you have 11 77E and 6 A380, it costs you the same no matter which ones you park. They parked all 77E, hence the 77E is the least profitable type in their fleet.

I don’t recall any article mentioning the aircraft was profitable considering they have half their fleet already parked at KUL.

EK413

unless flightradar24.com is lying, all 6 A380 are currently in scheduled operation.

So we have 0 stored A380, 8 stored A330 and the complete 77E fleet stored. Pretty telling....

best regards
Thomas

I think this is a good development. Shows loads have recovered. Look forward to cabin refresh. Will enable MH to utilise its new A350 to other destinations rather than LHR and - all in all - with a cabin refresh the travelling public should be very happy about this change of tack. Good on the new CEO. Also signals we will see some growth in routes. Much overdue from KUL. At the moment a good deal of the Europe bound traffic is going to Thai and Singapore Airlines. Only KLM and BA fly direct to Europe from KUL and with the size of the population here and MH service levels improving there is plenty of opportunity to take back market share that is currently going elsewhere. I think this may spell the end of the 789 order though. A333, A350, A380 gives MH a complete solution. So I'd say those 789 will be converted back to new generation 737.

tommy1808 wrote:

Nicoeddf wrote:

EK413 wrote:

MH is a real mess thanks to the A380. They haven’t got a clue what to do with the odd ball in their fleet.
Operating the aircraft on key routes and scheduling based on demand is a wise move. Let’s see how long this plan will last.

EK413

Thanks to the A380? Seriously, if an airline is a mess because of six (!!) copies of any airplane, it most probably isn't viable in the first place.
Yes, might have been a suboptimal choice for them. But it certainly doesn't make or break MH.

Wasn't there a quote somewhere from a few years back that the A380 was actually a profitable plane for them? According to airfleets they have 11 stores 77E's, if the A380 had been the problem, if it's capacity had been the problem, they would be in storage and not the half as big, flexible 77E.

Best regards
Thomas

Why did the box up their 77E's?

They are relatively old and associated with the two incidents. Many carriers have retired 77E of similar generation. No surprises here. I wouldn't put it past them to convert stored A333 into freighters though.

dhaliwal wrote:

Why did the box up their 77E's?

They were on the way out of the fleet anyway, MH simply sped up the retirement in the aftermath of MH370 and MH17.

BAeRJ100 wrote:

dhaliwal wrote:

Why did the box up their 77E's?

They were on the way out of the fleet anyway, MH simply sped up the retirement in the aftermath of MH370 and MH17.

Still, if they were inherently more profitable, even MH would figure out that storing the 380s rather than the 777s would be a wise move.
I am in agreement with Tommy here, pretty telling.

KUL-LHR will see A380 from 20 July to 3 September 18, MH2/3 rotation

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12dec17/

All in all I see this as the new CEO starting to rebuild and focus the airline on growth and reclaiming its position in the marketplace. Time is right IMHO. They've been wandering round with their tail between their legs the past few years. Time to move on and compete. A positive development.

Geoff1947 wrote:

LTenEleven wrote:

New CEO, new ideas.
Peter Bellew has some interesting ideas, but with his return to Ryanair....

Exactly they can ditch their stupid plan now Bellew has been pushed out. They need to make full use of their best assets.

Geoff

While I tend to agree, the result of this decision means the A350s are stuck with a First Class product it may not need anymore.

Easy to convert the newly delivered A359 into a twin class product. That doesn't cost anything like what it costs to have 6 A380 sitting around not utilised. So we may see a reconfig. I guess that depends on the routes MH has in mind. I suspect we are going to see a couple of new route announcements.

I also hope MH will repaint the A380 in the new standard livery.

NZ321 wrote:

I wouldn't put it past them to convert stored A333 into freighters though.

AFAIK, MAB does not have any stored A333s - they are actually short of A333s and had to lease used ex-AB A332s which came on the market with the collapse of AB. As for freighters, they managed to sell one of the B744Fs recently - it is now in CGK for maintenance and pre-delivery preparations for its new owner (not sure who bought it).

NZ321 wrote:

I also hope MH will repaint the A380 in the new standard livery.

The aircraft are due for a good wash anyway

flee wrote:

NZ321 wrote:

As for freighters, they managed to sell one of the B744Fs recently - it is now in CGK for maintenance and pre-delivery preparations for its new owner (not sure who bought it).

Didn't they also sell an A330F to Royal Jordanian?

tommy1808 wrote:

8 stored A330

Which frames are these? From what I can see, all their old A330s have either been scrapped, found new homes (eg Brussles Airlines, BH Air, Onur etc) or are being converted into A330P2Fs.

KarelXWB wrote:

The article also mentions a possible cabin refresh:

The airline is also understood to be weighing up the merits of a refresh for the A380 if it is to remain flying as Malaysia Airlines’ flagship,

It bloody better! The cabin was tired when I took it a year ago! I only forgave them since I "knew" they would be refitting them soon.

They must be pretty shabby by now...

Malaysian Airlines has officially joined the basket case of airlines.

Basket case of airlines have no business model and are at the whim of their masters (usually government or bureaucracy). Note that I am talking about getting the basics right ie, safety, consistency, dependable and profitable. Once these companies have have got Business 101 right then they can graduate to running an airline. The best example of this is Ethiopian Airlines.

So what is the problem with Malaysian Airlines, simple ... Malaysian government or bureaucracy believe in their infinite stuboness that they are running an airline without understanding how a business works. The recent CEO's, both of whom hailed from Europe know how to run a business and the fundamentals of running an airline.

Basket case airlines' rulers, believe that they are running a world class airline with service above and beyond what any other airline can provide. Sadly this is not the case, if anything their service is normal and nothing to write about. Majority of their home market can not read or write, and the minority who can afford will stay away from their respected countries' airlines because flying them makes the minority look poor. I am afraid to say that the Malaysian government and bureaucracy have an ego inversely proportional to their family jewel.

In the case of Malaysian Airlines, their government rulers', still in their minds are competing with Singapore Airlines. Hence you are going to see revised changes in the strategy with regards fleet utilisation and destinations flown to. If the Malaysian Government does not choose a Bumi Putra (ethnic Muslim Malay) for a CEO for the airline then the corner office will be known the KLIA 2 ie. transit lounge for CEOs.

Put it simply, in their lack of corporate wisdom Malaysian Airlines will keep all the A380s. They will use it on "prestige destinations" such as London, Tokyo, Hong Kong and Sydney. They will reopen up their previous European destinations and use the A350 on those routes. Hell, they might go back to Buenos Aries by the end of 2018.

Goodyear wrote:

What a basket case of an airline. They make Air India look like professionals.

Indeed ! If you know Malaysia as a country, with all its politics and social tensions and their 'wise leaders.... you will understand that MAS (or MAB as it is for now) is a perfect mirror: good potential, miserable execution.

tommy1808 wrote:

According to airfleets they have 11 stores 77E's, if the A380 had been the problem, if it's capacity had been the problem, they would be in storage and not the half as big, flexible 77E.

best regards
Thomas

Actually the fleet dynamics were quite a bit different at the time.

B77E was not very suitable on KUL-LHR and saw most of it's other mission destinations being taken over by the new A333s coming online. In that light it was rather logical to retire the remaining 15 aircraft since the only destinations left to serve that really needed it were AMS, CDG & FRA. Number of A380s & slack in scheduling was not sufficient to serve all these stations & maintain their frequencies. Neither was anyone happy to send more seats to Europe. So with the ongoing cost cutting excersises it was a clear and easy target to not further extend the leases and by also closing these European stations it did significantly save costs.

While most aircraft are now stored only 2 are owned & still on MABs books. Three other aircraft are still around in KUL but owned by Penerbangan Malaysia Berhad, a government holding company. If Airfleets wants to get it facts updated they should show MAB really only has 2 B77E left in storage.

9M-MRA Lease ended. Penerbangan Malaysia Berhad owned & stored in KUL.
9M-MRB Lease ended. Stored by lessor at TEV.
9M-MRC Lease ended. Stored by lessor at SBD.
9M-MRD Lost (M17)
9M-MRE Lease ended. Penerbangan Malaysia Berhad owned & stored in KUL
9M-MRF Lease ended. Stored by lessor at TEV
9M-MRG Lease ended. Stored by lessor at QPG
9M-MRH Lease ended. Scrapped by lessor at GYR
9M-MRI Lease ended. Stored by lessor at TLV
9M-MRJ Lease ended. Stored by lessor at TEV
9M-MRK Lease ended. Scrapped by lessor at SFB
9M-MRL Lease ended. Left stored by owner in KUL
9M-MRM Lease ended. Left stored by owner in KUL
9M-MRN Lease ended. Penerbangan Malaysia Berhad owned & stored in KUL
9M-MRO Lost (MH370)
9M-MRP MAB owned & stored SZB. Readied for Air Zimbabwe but deal not completed.
9M-MRQ MAB owned & stored SZB. Readied for Air Zimbabwe but deal not completed.

I know some aircraft have found new life with Russian airline VIM but i'm not one to keep track of aircraft after they have left the fleet so you will not find that in here.

LTenEleven wrote:

New CEO, new ideas.
Peter Bellew has some interesting ideas, but with his return to Ryanair....

Bellew was contemplating doing this same thing. I was half expecting him to announce it a few months ago.
After the MH disasters, demand (of course) slumped to near nothing and the A380s were suddenly huge inconveniences. They had to be sold/repurposed - everyone thought the brand was completely destroyed. Hajj flights made the most commercial sense, given the planes couldn’t be sold.

What no one expected was the brand to recover to the level it did in the short amount of time it did and the A380s were back to making money on the LHR route with load factors in the high 90s, including lots of premium purchases. Now high density, low cost flights were not a very attractive proposition when there was high premium yields to be made. Bellew has stated how well the A380s were performing and I believe he said (though might not have been in public, but fairly sure it was) that high density A380s were no longer necessary.

Outside of LHR I don’t know how well the A380 will perform for them, but we shall see.

Keep in mind that MH discontinued routes not because demand between cities were low but because of brand reputation - which has now largely recovered - so they can begin to re-enter old markets. I’d expect them to reannounce Brisbane at the very least in 2018.

Nicoeddf wrote:

BAeRJ100 wrote:

dhaliwal wrote:

Why did the box up their 77E's?

They were on the way out of the fleet anyway, MH simply sped up the retirement in the aftermath of MH370 and MH17.

Still, if they were inherently more profitable, even MH would figure out that storing the 380s rather than the 777s would be a wise move.
I am in agreement with Tommy here, pretty telling.

The 777 was killing their profits after the accidents!

Slug71 wrote:

Nicoeddf wrote:

BAeRJ100 wrote:

They were on the way out of the fleet anyway, MH simply sped up the retirement in the aftermath of MH370 and MH17.

Still, if they were inherently more profitable, even MH would figure out that storing the 380s rather than the 777s would be a wise move.
I am in agreement with Tommy here, pretty telling.

The 777 was killing their profits after the accidents!

I would say the "accidents" were killing their profits after the accidents. While both of the tragedies have been 777s, 90% of the flying public wouldn't know or wouldn't care. They care about the brand being burned for what happend and marked as "unsafe". That would count for booking numbers on the 380 as well.

NZ321 wrote:

All in all I see this as the new CEO starting to rebuild and focus the airline on growth and reclaiming its position in the marketplace. Time is right IMHO. They've been wandering round with their tail between their legs the past few years. Time to move on and compete. A positive development.

Problem is, the market is already saturated. Growth will only create lower yields.

Seems that business has rebounded for MH which is great for them. The introduction of the A350 will help too and probably make up for any loss with the A380. Though that is a lot of routes for 6 aircraft. Should work well in rotation. I imagine the A359s can easily be reconfigured and some of the first class seats yanked out and put into the A380s.
Peter Bellew praised the A380 prior to him leaving and said he sees a possibility for more A380s in the future.

Nicoeddf wrote:

Slug71 wrote:

Nicoeddf wrote:

Still, if they were inherently more profitable, even MH would figure out that storing the 380s rather than the 777s would be a wise move.
I am in agreement with Tommy here, pretty telling.

The 777 was killing their profits after the accidents!

I would say the "accidents" were killing their profits after the accidents. While both of the tragedies have been 777s, 90% of the flying public wouldn't know or wouldn't care. They care about the brand being burned for what happend and marked as "unsafe". That would count for booking numbers on the 380 as well.

You could look at it that way too, but people do pay attention to the aircraft involved. It(type) was plastered all over the news and I remember hearing that their 777s were missing features/functionality compared to what other airlines had in theirs. Don't remember what it was but their regulations didn't require it or something. When stuff like that is run on the "news", you better believe people take note after two accidents.

9MMPQ wrote:

If Airfleets wants to get it facts updated they should show MAB really only has 2 B77E left in storage.

Thank you for the compehensive write up.

Best regards
Thomas