panamair
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Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:41 am

Looks like Delta and Westjet have signed an MOU to form a transborder JV

http://news.delta.com/delta-and-westjet ... nt-venture

With this, Delta will essentially have good access to most of the key markets worldwide

Mexico - JV and stake in AM
Canada - proposed JV with WS
UK - JV and stake in VS
Europe - JV and stake in AF-KL
Asia/Pacific - proposed JV with KE; stake in MU
Brazil - stake in GOL
Australia - JV with VA

Only significant gap at this point is India....though the 9W codeshares are a good first step...
 
klm617
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:45 am

Good now at least maybe Westjet will add Detroit flights.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:23 pm

I guess aa ws code share and miles earning are toast after this? Seems like it was heading this way for a while.
 
msycajun
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:31 pm

Maybe DL will also try to pawn some C-Series off on them!
 
commavia
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:37 pm

panamair wrote:
Looks like Delta and Westjet have signed an MOU to form a transborder JV


Huge news, and good news, for both airlines. It will definitely be interesting to see what additional transborder market development opportunities this opens up for Delta and WestJet.

panamair wrote:
With this, Delta will essentially have good access to most of the key markets worldwide

Mexico - JV and stake in AM
Canada - proposed JV with WS
UK - JV and stake in VS
Europe - JV and stake in AF-KL
Asia/Pacific - proposed JV with KE; stake in MU
Brazil - stake in GOL
Australia - JV with VA


As has been discussed at length, Delta has definitely moved far more aggressively to form deep JVs with partners, particularly in large markets where it's at a disadvantage to AA and/or United. Of that list above - Mexico, Canada, UK, Continental Europe, Asia/Pacific, Brazil and Australia - Delta is at a material disadvantage to AA and/or United (and/or their respective partners) in every single geography except, arguably, Continental Europe. So in that context, it's very logical and sensible to use JVs - often also tied to equity holdings - to lock up access and presence in such large, important markets.

tphuang wrote:
I guess aa ws code share and miles earning are toast after this? Seems like it was heading this way for a while.


It seems like a virtual certainty. Delta doesn't like to share. It looks like the earlier reporting, and speculation as to the reasoning behind AA's recent Canada expansion announcement, were accurate. Certainly not fatal, but definitely a loss for AA - AA will lose access to a dozen Canadian cities, most of them smaller markets. Personally, I could see AA ultimately adding its own flights in a few of them: especially YHZ (CR7 to PHL) but also maybe even YYJ (CR7 to LAX) and/or YWG (CR7 to ORD). But no question an important win for Delta and loss for AA.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:42 pm

good,. maybe they can add MSP-YQR,YXE using Encore Q400 as codeshare.
 
neomax
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:10 pm

I always found it weird how the only non DL partner that DL shares their terminal with is WS at most US airports but never thought much of it. WS always seemed like that quiet friend who you never thought much of, but I am not surprised at all to see a DL/WS codeshare, and look forward to seeing what they do!
 
raylee67
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:42 pm

Does that mean AA is losing WestJet? What about WestJet's relationship to other OW's partners such as BA and QF?
319 320 321 332 333 342 343 345 388 707 717 732 736 73G 738 739 74R 742 743 744 74E 748 757 762 763 772 77E 77L 773 77W D10 M80 135 140 145 175 190 DH1 DH4 CRJ CR7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
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flymco753
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:59 pm

klm617 wrote:
Good now at least maybe Westjet will add Detroit flights.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all. I can see Encore completely taking over YOW when the CRJ-200 goes, I can see them take over a YYZ flight or 2, maybe 1 YUL flight and add YHZ on Encore. WS mainline would be a good candidate for DLs seasonal YVR, and they could shift the YQG-YYC to DTW. Realistically I think that Encore will just take over YOW, do 1 YYZ flight on Encore and take over YVR and add a seasonal YYC.
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wingnutmn
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:14 pm

My question is this: How much money is DL going to infuse into Westjet for a non voting stake in the company? I could see an easy $250-400M for say 20-30%? History has proven that DL likes to own a percentage of their JV partners.

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Dominion301
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:52 pm

RJNUT wrote:
good,. maybe they can add MSP-YQR,YXE using Encore Q400 as codeshare.


Well DL is still on YXE-MSP 2x daily, but yeah 1 or 2 daily WS Q400s on YQR-MSP would now make complete sense.

flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Good now at least maybe Westjet will add Detroit flights.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all. I can see Encore completely taking over YOW when the CRJ-200 goes, I can see them take over a YYZ flight or 2, maybe 1 YUL flight and add YHZ on Encore. WS mainline would be a good candidate for DLs seasonal YVR, and they could shift the YQG-YYC to DTW. Realistically I think that Encore will just take over YOW, do 1 YYZ flight on Encore and take over YVR and add a seasonal YYC.


WS adding a new daily Q400 out of YYZ and/or YOW and/or YUL to complement DL's existing DTW flights seems plausible with this JV. However, for YOW, I don't see DL leaving the route. Remember about 125 50 seat RJs are still going to be at DL for years to come. If DL were to transfer YOW-DTW over to WS exclusively, they'd still be in YOW with their daily CR9 to LGA. If anything, I can see DL adding back a 3rd daily RJ to YOW from DTW and/or upgauging YOW-DTW to CR7s and/or a 2nd daily CR9 to LGA.

What I do think, is that we'll see WS at ATL before long. YOW-ATL could be done on a WS Q400 (easily doable given PD launches the much longer YOW-MLB a week from Saturday) if DL still don't want to re-enter this route. I can also see a daily 737 out of YYZ and a 737 out of YYC and maybe YVR to ATL.

What is evident is that WS clearly don't have enough Q400s to meet all potential unexploited opportunities and will place a top-up order at some point.

I guess we'll see whether this proposed JV will have any impact on the AA codeshare. WS have thus far shown no interest in joining an alliance given their extensive list of OW and SkyTeam and non-alliance partners such as EK.

wingnutmn wrote:
My question is this: How much money is DL going to infuse into Westjet for a non voting stake in the company? I could see an easy $250-400M for say 20-30%? History has proven that DL likes to own a percentage of their JV partners.

Wingnut


Well DL would be free to buy up stock in WS up to the soon-to-be max 49% stake. I doubt WS would be interested in a new share offering considering how flush with cash they are.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:00 pm

Could this make it any more likely for DL nonhub focus cities to see Westjet service?
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TWA772LR
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:13 pm

Que "When will Westjet join Skyteam?" threads in 3... 2...1...
In all actuality, I can see them joining by the end of the decade.
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cledaybuck
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:17 pm

What are the supposed public benefits from this proposed JV?
 
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mercure1
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:20 pm

raylee67 wrote:
Does that mean AA is losing WestJet? What about WestJet's relationship to other OW's partners such as BA and QF?


The AA-WS relationship was recently trimmed back, likely in anticipation of this DL deal.
 
klakzky123
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:21 pm

So with this announcement, I expect UA and AC to quickly follow this up with a cross-border JV. I think the current JV only covers TATL so I'd expect them to expand it to cover cross-border flights.

It'll be interesting to see how the DOT in the US and MOT in Canada respond to this.
 
Acey
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:26 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
What are the supposed public benefits from this proposed JV?

This opens the door for YYC-ATL, so for anybody in YYC it opens one-stop connections to the southeast and beyond via the massive ATL hub. Seems like a big benefit.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:31 pm

Acey wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
What are the supposed public benefits from this proposed JV?

This opens the door for YYC-ATL, so for anybody in YYC it opens one-stop connections to the southeast and beyond via the massive ATL hub. Seems like a big benefit.
Why can't that be done via codeshare?
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:33 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
So with this announcement, I expect UA and AC to quickly follow this up with a cross-border JV. I think the current JV only covers TATL so I'd expect them to expand it to cover cross-border flights.
Nope. Covers cross-border with the following carve outs:
Between the US and Canada, carveouts will be required between Toronto and Cleveland, Houston, Chicago, and San Francisco as well as Houston to Calgary and New York to Ottawa. Over the Pacific, only US to Beijing routes are carved out. Any of these carveouts can be removed if new competition is introduced into the market.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dot-approv ... carveouts/
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:33 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
What are the supposed public benefits from this proposed JV?


There isn't a strong competitor to AC/UA; this creates that. WestJet is growing up from a LCC to more of a full service carrier serving a mix of business and vacation destinations (more vacation in the US and southern). That is a huge benefit.
 
dmorbust
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:52 pm

Anyone know the breakdown in % market share between the players in the US-Canada transborder market?
 
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SLCUT2777
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:59 pm

I would also not be the least bit surprised to see WS in SLC & taking mainline flights to YVR, YYC as well as adding back YEG & YYZ. Thereby shifting OO connection flying to smaller stations such as bringing back YYJ or one that could work like YQL.
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klakzky123
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:07 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
So with this announcement, I expect UA and AC to quickly follow this up with a cross-border JV. I think the current JV only covers TATL so I'd expect them to expand it to cover cross-border flights.
Nope. Covers cross-border with the following carve outs:
Between the US and Canada, carveouts will be required between Toronto and Cleveland, Houston, Chicago, and San Francisco as well as Houston to Calgary and New York to Ottawa. Over the Pacific, only US to Beijing routes are carved out. Any of these carveouts can be removed if new competition is introduced into the market.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dot-approv ... carveouts/


That's the US approval. The Canadian regulators added additional routes that were blocked as well. The Canadians blocked 14 routes in 2012. My suggestion is that the Westjet-Delta JV will result in AC and UA asking for a full JV once again.

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/ ... 03507.html
 
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admanager
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:30 pm

As much as I like the idea of this JV and the new routes, it's going to be interesting to see how Delta fliers respond to the WS service level. There is no F on WS, only 'Plus' which offers a European style business cabin. No Comfort + cabin. And horror - you might have to get on a prop plane.

But worst of all is the Skymiles earings. Delta now has a new table on their website showing milage earnnings after January 1. Excluding full fare non-redunadable tickets, you get 10% (or less) MQD credit, 50% (or less) on both MQM's and actual milage and I love this 'get out of jail free" statement from Delta..." For purposes of calculating mileage credit and MQDs, "distance flown" means the calculated distance between origin and destination, as determined by Delta in its sole discretion, regardless of the actual distance traveled"

In no way does this come close to the level of benefits such as on the JV with Aoromexico or GOL. It's only slightly better than the Korean Airlines partnership.
As William Shakespeare wrote; Much Ado About Nothing.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:47 pm

Not surprised to see this; WS clearly saw how things went down the last time DL asked a partner to trim back a partnership with another carrier (AS, with AA and others) and Gregg said, "Y'know, I think I'd rather have you as a friend than an enemy..." and pulled the trigger on the JV.
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klm617
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:49 pm

Acey wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
What are the supposed public benefits from this proposed JV?

This opens the door for YYC-ATL, so for anybody in YYC it opens one-stop connections to the southeast and beyond via the massive ATL hub. Seems like a big benefit.



There would be more reachable destinations over DTW then there would be over ATL. The whole east coast would be reachable over Detroit no so with an ATL-YYC flight.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:53 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
Acey wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
What are the supposed public benefits from this proposed JV?

This opens the door for YYC-ATL, so for anybody in YYC it opens one-stop connections to the southeast and beyond via the massive ATL hub. Seems like a big benefit.
Why can't that be done via codeshare?

Exactly, minimal benefits.

Just less competition. I hope dot will require something non trivial from this and any possible changes to ac ua joint venture.
 
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admanager
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:57 pm

klm617 wrote:
Acey wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
What are the supposed public benefits from this proposed JV?

This opens the door for YYC-ATL, so for anybody in YYC it opens one-stop connections to the southeast and beyond via the massive ATL hub. Seems like a big benefit.



There would be more reachable destinations over DTW then there would be over ATL. The whole east coast would be reachable over Detroit no so with an ATL-YYC flight.

I'm seeing a used school bus running a shuttle from DTW to Windsor airport and avoiding the transborder taxes and having WS set up a mini hub in Windsor using Q-400's which have been assigned to SWOOP
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:57 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
So with this announcement, I expect UA and AC to quickly follow this up with a cross-border JV. I think the current JV only covers TATL so I'd expect them to expand it to cover cross-border flights.
Nope. Covers cross-border with the following carve outs:
Between the US and Canada, carveouts will be required between Toronto and Cleveland, Houston, Chicago, and San Francisco as well as Houston to Calgary and New York to Ottawa. Over the Pacific, only US to Beijing routes are carved out. Any of these carveouts can be removed if new competition is introduced into the market.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dot-approv ... carveouts/


That's the US approval. The Canadian regulators added additional routes that were blocked as well. The Canadians blocked 14 routes in 2012. My suggestion is that the Westjet-Delta JV will result in AC and UA asking for a full JV once again.

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/ ... 03507.html
I appears 5 of those routes overlap, so 9 extra routes were blocked in 2012. Point still stands, though. If WestJet-Delta and AC-UA both get approved, that seems like an awful lot of competition eliminated.
 
commavia
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:19 pm

tphuang wrote:
I hope dot will require something non trivial from this and any possible changes to ac ua joint venture.


Rightly or wrongly, I doubt it. I suspect this will meet with minimal regulatory challenge from either country.

And at this point, the transborder market is likely fairly set, anyway. The only other combination that is even somewhat plausible - and is actually somewhat intriguing - would maybe be AA with Porter. It obviously wouldn't help much in western Canada, but perhaps a deepening of the codeshare with Alaska could help a bit, there, but Porter would provide at least some access to smaller markets in eastern Canada, and it would be a huge help with point of sale in what is obviously Canada's largest and most important corporate travel market by far, Toronto.
 
cumulushumilis
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:29 pm

Let the C Series rumours fly for WestJet! AM gets them, courtesy of DL...

This article is stating that WJ will be acquiring 45 aircraft by 2020.. Very confusing

http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/airlines/update-1-canadas-westjet-to-add-45-aircraft-to-fleet-by-2020
 
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:42 pm

I wonder if this will finally spur AC into expanding/upgauging service to the south/southeast (aside from Florida)?

Sorta crazy that they've been serving metros with 6MM+ people with nothing but ultra-high priced RJ service for years on end. Even the larger medium-sized cities have been relatively stagnant, but quite high priced, on them.

It's only a matter of time before WN/NK invade Canada, which I'd imagine will force AC to do the above. Maybe it's time for the latter to do so preemptively.
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klm617
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:54 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
I wonder if this will finally spur AC into expanding/upgauging service to the south/southeast (aside from Florida)?

Sorta crazy that they've been serving metros with 6MM+ people with nothing but ultra-high priced RJ service for years on end. Even the larger medium-sized cities have been relatively stagnant, but quite high priced, on them.

It's only a matter of time before WN/NK invade Canada, which I'd imagine will force AC to do the above. Maybe it's time for the latter to do so preemptively.



You mean like Delta does from some of it's hubs.
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Bobloblaw
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:10 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
I wonder if this will finally spur AC into expanding/upgauging service to the south/southeast (aside from Florida)?

Sorta crazy that they've been serving metros with 6MM+ people with nothing but ultra-high priced RJ service for years on end. Even the larger medium-sized cities have been relatively stagnant, but quite high priced, on them.

It's only a matter of time before WN/NK invade Canada, which I'd imagine will force AC to do the above. Maybe it's time for the latter to do so preemptively.



They already serve Canada and do so without the taxes and fees. The problem with serving Canada is that Canada/US market is 70% Canada point of sale, which means 70% of revenue is in $CDN while 100% of expense is in $USD. US ULCCs have so many opportunities in the US and Caribbean that Canada is well down the list of profitable opportunities.
 
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:39 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
What are the supposed public benefits from this proposed JV?


There isn't a strong competitor to AC/UA; this creates that. WestJet is growing up from a LCC to more of a full service carrier serving a mix of business and vacation destinations (more vacation in the US and southern). That is a huge benefit.

Until WS’s loyalty program grows up - there still isn’t much of an option outside of AC for Canadians.

- very limited lounge access
- very limited advance seat selections
- no upgrade options
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ahj2000
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:57 pm

mercure1 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Does that mean AA is losing WestJet? What about WestJet's relationship to other OW's partners such as BA and QF?


The AA-WS relationship was recently trimmed back, likely in anticipation of this DL deal.

yikes. Wonder what AA will do (or more likely,won’t) do in Canada now.
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yegbey01
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:59 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
They already serve Canada and do so without the taxes and fees. The problem with serving Canada is that Canada/US market is 70% Canada point of sale, which means 70% of revenue is in $CDN while 100% of expense is in $USD. US ULCCs have so many opportunities in the US and Caribbean that Canada is well down the list of profitable opportunities.


^ I can never get this argument....Just like you hedge for fluctuations in oil prices, you hedge against exchange rates. WS for example flies from so may points from Canada to LAS, so why would WN not replicate the same especially that they can offer onward connections in LAS.
 
alasizon
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:07 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Does that mean AA is losing WestJet? What about WestJet's relationship to other OW's partners such as BA and QF?


The AA-WS relationship was recently trimmed back, likely in anticipation of this DL deal.

yikes. Wonder what AA will do (or more likely,won’t) do in Canada now.


Wouldn't be surprised to just see AA add more Canadian points using their own (mostly regional) metal. LAX/PHX are in good positions for Winter traffic for all of BC & AB. PHL on the other hand could benefit from some additional adds.
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ual777newpaint
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:21 pm

[quote="admanager"
But worst of all is the Skymiles earings. Delta now has a new table on their website showing milage earnnings after January 1. Excluding full fare non-redunadable tickets, you get 10% (or less) MQD credit, 50% (or less) on both MQM's and actual milage and I love this 'get out of jail free" statement from Delta..." For purposes of calculating mileage credit and MQDs, "distance flown" means the calculated distance between origin and destination, as determined by Delta in its sole discretion, regardless of the actual distance traveled" .[/quote]

I would imagine that once the JV is in full effect, DL fliers will start to earn 100% MQMs on WS. This should at least be the case on DL-ticketed itineraries.
318 319 320 321 333 343 346 717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 744 752 753 762 763 76E 764 77A 77E 773 789 CRJ CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 F50 F70 MD88 MD90 DL UA WN B6 TK US U2 KL EQ MU SK GK VY AF AM KE XL KN CZ VS 3U CM CA 7P SC
 
wenders825
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:39 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Does that mean AA is losing WestJet? What about WestJet's relationship to other OW's partners such as BA and QF?


The AA-WS relationship was recently trimmed back, likely in anticipation of this DL deal.

yikes. Wonder what AA will do (or more likely,won’t) do in Canada now.

AA announced a lot of canadian additions last week, with more probably to come.

I could see a return to YHZ, for example
 
ScottB
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:53 pm

admanager wrote:
But worst of all is the Skymiles earings. Delta now has a new table on their website showing milage earnnings after January 1. Excluding full fare non-redunadable tickets, you get 10% (or less) MQD credit, 50% (or less) on both MQM's and actual milage and I love this 'get out of jail free" statement from Delta..." For purposes of calculating mileage credit and MQDs, "distance flown" means the calculated distance between origin and destination, as determined by Delta in its sole discretion, regardless of the actual distance traveled"


As pointed out by ual777newpaint, it's likely that SkyMiles credit will change for WS-marketed flights to be equivalent to DL-marketed flights once the JV goes into effect. As things stand currently, the post-January 1 earnings will be better than they are today as DL gives no MQMs for WS-marketed flights -- and that even includes flights ticketed by DL and would include WS codeshare flights operated by DL. If you book the WS flight under DL's code you get full credit.

neomax wrote:
I always found it weird how the only non DL partner that DL shares their terminal with is WS at most US airports but never thought much of it. WS always seemed like that quiet friend who you never thought much of, but I am not surprised at all to see a DL/WS codeshare, and look forward to seeing what they do!


I expect to see some fraction of WS's YYZ-LGA flying to be shifted over to DL Connection; this route sees mostly the 737-600 which is still probably too large given the amount of frequency. I could also see DL Connection taking over the BOS-YYZ/YHZ routes from Encore, which would free up Q400s for WS to use elsewhere.
 
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LockheedBBD
Posts: 207
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Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:03 pm

cumulushumilis wrote:
Let the C Series rumours fly for WestJet! AM gets them, courtesy of DL...

This article is stating that WJ will be acquiring 45 aircraft by 2020.. Very confusing

http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/airlines/update-1-canadas-westjet-to-add-45-aircraft-to-fleet-by-2020



Maybe it's referring to WJ's existing 737 orders entering service. West Jet has 58 aircraft on order, perhaps 45 of those are arriving before 2020.
Last edited by LockheedBBD on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:05 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
cumulushumilis wrote:
Let the C Series rumours fly for WestJet! AM gets them, courtesy of DL...

This article is stating that WJ will be acquiring 45 aircraft by 2020.. Very confusing

http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/airlines/update-1-canadas-westjet-to-add-45-aircraft-to-fleet-by-2020



Maybe it's referring to WJ's existing 737 orders entering service. West Jet has 58 aircraft on order from now until 2022. Perhaps 45 of those are arriving before 2020.


Some more Q400s I think, too.
 
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LockheedBBD
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:07 pm

jbs2886 wrote:

Some more Q400s I think, too.


I forgot about those, those would be on top of the 58 orders I've mentioned so it looks like they'll be taking on quite a few aircraft.
 
Prost
Posts: 2057
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:10 pm

I’ve been in the industry nearly 30 years and I still have a heck of a time with Canadian airport codes. Be grateful I don’t check in luggage!
 
NichCage
Posts: 814
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:43 pm

Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:21 pm

It would be nice to WestJet join SkyTeam.

Is it true that WestJet wanted to make an agreement with Southwest a while back or something?
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1750
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:23 pm

yegbey01 wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
They already serve Canada and do so without the taxes and fees. The problem with serving Canada is that Canada/US market is 70% Canada point of sale, which means 70% of revenue is in $CDN while 100% of expense is in $USD. US ULCCs have so many opportunities in the US and Caribbean that Canada is well down the list of profitable opportunities.


^ I can never get this argument....Just like you hedge for fluctuations in oil prices, you hedge against exchange rates. WS for example flies from so may points from Canada to LAS, so why would WN not replicate the same especially that they can offer onward connections in LAS.


Hedging has its own risks.

WN has so many other better opportunities than YYC-LAS.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:26 pm

wenders825 wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:

The AA-WS relationship was recently trimmed back, likely in anticipation of this DL deal.

yikes. Wonder what AA will do (or more likely,won’t) do in Canada now.

AA announced a lot of canadian additions last week, with more probably to come.

I could see a return to YHZ, for example


Hopefully. I'd love to see AA bring back YOW-ORD 2-3x daily and add YOW-MIA. That route could easily support a daily E75 year-round with the MIA hub and it would make getting to South America from YOW vastly easier.

Prost wrote:
I’ve been in the industry nearly 30 years and I still have a heck of a time with Canadian airport codes. Be grateful I don’t check in luggage!


I wonderer "Y"? :fluffy:
 
jbs2886
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:32 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
LockheedBBD wrote:
cumulushumilis wrote:
Let the C Series rumours fly for WestJet! AM gets them, courtesy of DL...

This article is stating that WJ will be acquiring 45 aircraft by 2020.. Very confusing

http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/airlines/update-1-canadas-westjet-to-add-45-aircraft-to-fleet-by-2020



Maybe it's referring to WJ's existing 737 orders entering service. West Jet has 58 aircraft on order from now until 2022. Perhaps 45 of those are arriving before 2020.


Some more Q400s I think, too.


WestJet will also have some 787s on the property by 2020, too!
 
KSBOS
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Delta and Westjet agree to form US-Canada JV

Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:27 pm

Boston-Calgary on WestJet would be a nice add. Hearing its in the works for 2018.

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