Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
N14AZ wrote:Interesting, but am I wrong if I think this will lead to a situation, where a fraction of the passengers, who are now flying SQ via FRA will decide to take SCOOT from BER, meaning Scoot is canabilizing SQ's FRA-Singapore route?
steman wrote:Berlin could very well become a Long Haul LCC hot spot
Cunard wrote:So now that Scoot have announced TXL do we see this as the first part of the airlines expansion into Europe?
BestWestern wrote:Athens isn’t that successful - just twice weekly at present, and dirt cheap fares.
aerokiwi wrote:Fantastic news. Potential future destinations? Budapest? Prague? Nice? Maybe a Turkish beachside destination?
fl360 wrote:Being an airline based in SIN, for long haul most of their pax will be to or from Australia. I am in Sydney and with recent sales from first tier airlines such as Cathay and Qantas 12XX AUD to Europe i have no idea why anyone would fly Scoot.
fl360 wrote:I think the reason scoot choose to fly to these second, or third tier European cities, is because of its cheap landing fees, with cheap fuel from parent SIA, and fuel efficient 787, and providing almost nothing other than the seat for their customers, why not try it ? After all if it does not work, just refund these punters after 12 weeks. They can rant all about it online.... It is in their t and c.
I have few Singaporean friends and if they want European travel they will fly SQ.
This try from Scoot reminds me of AirAsia long haul to Europe few years ago... We all know the outcome of that.... We will see....
huaiwei wrote:fl360 wrote:Being an airline based in SIN, for long haul most of their pax will be to or from Australia. I am in Sydney and with recent sales from first tier airlines such as Cathay and Qantas 12XX AUD to Europe i have no idea why anyone would fly Scoot.
Your second sentence showed why your first sentence holds no water.
Are Athens and Berlin significant markets for the Australian market? Clearly not, so why would Scoot bank on these two routes on such a high-risk endeavor if it was all just due to the Australians?
Let's not forget that while Australia may be 11,106 times bigger than Singapore, Singapore's population is actually almost 25% that of Australia's, and has GDP per capita which is 52% higher than Australia's.
Singaporeans made close to 9.5 million overseas trips in 2016 (in a country with 5.607 million people), compared to 8.85 million trips by Australians (total population 24.13 million).
And Singapore received 16.4 million tourists in 2016, compared to just 8.2 million visiting the whole of Australia, and that is not even counting the tourists entering Singapore via the causeway link to Malaysia.
If you think Singapore does not have a big enough local market to drive its long-haul routes, than you will need to show me statistics to persuade me.
huaiwei wrote:fl360 wrote:Are Athens and Berlin significant markets for the Australian market? .
huaiwei wrote:
Are Athens and Berlin significant markets for the Australian market? Clearly not, so why would Scoot bank on these two routes on such a high-risk endeavour if it was all just due to the Australians?
huaiwei wrote:Singaporeans made close to 9.5 million overseas trips in 2016 (in a country with 5.607 million people), compared to 8.85 million trips by Australians (total population 24.13 million).
westgate wrote:I have hardly ever met any Singaporean tourists anywhere in the World, but Australians are absolutely everywhere, and there will be many, many times more Australians in Europe that Singaporeans, even when taking into account the population differences.
SCQ83 wrote:Regarding Berlin being "poor", this is already a bit tiring. Berlin might not have a lot of corporate DAX style companies, but it has a lot of well-paid government workers, young people working in tech and international population for which Scoot will be a good match.
airbazar wrote:The Singapore numbers are more skewed towards the business traveler while the Australian numbers are skewed towards the leisure traveler. In addition, Singaporeans are much more low key and blend in with the thousands of Chinese visitors while Australians stick out like a sore thumb everywhere they go, and every time they open their mouth. And I mean that in a amusing way, not a derogatory way. Also, Australians tend to stay longer while Singaporeans take multiple short stay trips.
westgate wrote:But it ultimately is true however, it certainly has nowhere near the wealth of other German cities such as Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg and can not be compared to the other major European capitals like London or Paris. In some ways, it still is very much an Eastern European city and is more equivalent to places like Prague, Warsaw and Budapest . . . that have all improved significantly since the fall of Communism but will likely never achieve the same level of wealth as their Western European counterparts.
SCQ83 wrote:westgate wrote:But it ultimately is true however, it certainly has nowhere near the wealth of other German cities such as Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg and can not be compared to the other major European capitals like London or Paris. In some ways, it still is very much an Eastern European city and is more equivalent to places like Prague, Warsaw and Budapest . . . that have all improved significantly since the fall of Communism but will likely never achieve the same level of wealth as their Western European counterparts.
Berlin government workers (a lot and growing) have German salaries, not public Czech / Polish / Hungarian public workers' income. Those German or Western European workers in IT or "creative industries" have German salaries; otherwise they would move to London or Paris. As Berlin is becoming more "mainstream", more traditional corporate companies are setting in the city. Also, Berlin comparatively to other "industrial" German cities is kind of a "boom town" and a lot of people has made a lot of money very quick (e.g. real estate speculation, tourism industry, start-ups). So there is a lot of money floating around even if clearly Berlin has more poor people than other cities like Hamburg or Munich.
SCQ83 wrote:Without EK or QR, Scott can transfer passengers from Berlin to Asia, including nearby popular destinations like Bali or Phuket. Berlin is also becoming more popular with Asian / Middle Eastern tourists. Regarding Berlin being "poor", this is already a bit tiring. Berlin might not have a lot of corporate DAX style companies, but it has a lot of well-paid government workers, young people working in tech and international population for which Scoot will be a good match.
SQ22 wrote:SCQ83 wrote:Without EK or QR, Scott can transfer passengers from Berlin to Asia, including nearby popular destinations like Bali or Phuket. Berlin is also becoming more popular with Asian / Middle Eastern tourists. Regarding Berlin being "poor", this is already a bit tiring. Berlin might not have a lot of corporate DAX style companies, but it has a lot of well-paid government workers, young people working in tech and international population for which Scoot will be a good match.
QR is serving Berlin three times a week on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. After AB ceased operations they upgauged to 77W.
GoldenArrow wrote:SQ22 wrote:SCQ83 wrote:Without EK or QR, Scott can transfer passengers from Berlin to Asia, including nearby popular destinations like Bali or Phuket. Berlin is also becoming more popular with Asian / Middle Eastern tourists. Regarding Berlin being "poor", this is already a bit tiring. Berlin might not have a lot of corporate DAX style companies, but it has a lot of well-paid government workers, young people working in tech and international population for which Scoot will be a good match.
QR is serving Berlin three times a week on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. After AB ceased operations they upgauged to 77W.
QR flies daily to TXL.
SQ22 wrote:GoldenArrow wrote:SQ22 wrote:
QR is serving Berlin three times a week on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. After AB ceased operations they upgauged to 77W.
QR flies daily to TXL.
Not in Winter season.
https://www.airportia.com/flights/qr81/doha/berlin/
huaiwei wrote:fl360 wrote:Being an airline based in SIN, for long haul most of their pax will be to or from Australia. I am in Sydney and with recent sales from first tier airlines such as Cathay and Qantas 12XX AUD to Europe i have no idea why anyone would fly Scoot.
Your second sentence showed why your first sentence holds no water.
Are Athens and Berlin significant markets for the Australian market? Clearly not, so why would Scoot bank on these two routes on such a high-risk endeavor if it was all just due to the Australians?
Let's not forget that while Australia may be 11,106 times bigger than Singapore, Singapore's population is actually almost 25% that of Australia's, and has GDP per capita which is 52% higher than Australia's.
Singaporeans made close to 9.5 million overseas trips in 2016 (in a country with 5.607 million people), compared to 8.85 million trips by Australians (total population 24.13 million).
And Singapore received 16.4 million tourists in 2016, compared to just 8.2 million visiting the whole of Australia, and that is not even counting the tourists entering Singapore via the causeway link to Malaysia.
If you think Singapore does not have a big enough local market to drive its long-haul routes, than you will need to show me statistics to persuade me.
westgate wrote:airbazar wrote:The Singapore numbers are more skewed towards the business traveler while the Australian numbers are skewed towards the leisure traveler. In addition, Singaporeans are much more low key and blend in with the thousands of Chinese visitors while Australians stick out like a sore thumb everywhere they go, and every time they open their mouth. And I mean that in a amusing way, not a derogatory way. Also, Australians tend to stay longer while Singaporeans take multiple short stay trips.
Absolutely agree with this. I'm basing my observations on my time working in backpackers hostels all over the world, hardly ever saw a Singaporean passport.
But the fact that Singaporeans will be skewed towards business travel means that this route to Berlin will likely not be for them but for the more leisure orientated Aussies, and for leisure orientated Germans heading to Singapore/South East Asia/Australia.
SCQ83 wrote:westgate wrote:But it ultimately is true however, it certainly has nowhere near the wealth of other German cities such as Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg and can not be compared to the other major European capitals like London or Paris. In some ways, it still is very much an Eastern European city and is more equivalent to places like Prague, Warsaw and Budapest . . . that have all improved significantly since the fall of Communism but will likely never achieve the same level of wealth as their Western European counterparts.
Berlin government workers (a lot and growing) have German salaries, not public Czech / Polish / Hungarian public workers' income. Those German or Western European workers in IT or "creative industries" have German salaries; otherwise they would move to London or Paris. As Berlin is becoming more "mainstream", more traditional corporate companies are setting in the city. Also, Berlin comparatively to other "industrial" German cities is kind of a "boom town" and a lot of people has made a lot of money very quick (e.g. real estate speculation, tourism industry, start-ups). So there is a lot of money floating around even if clearly Berlin has more poor people than other cities like Hamburg or Munich.
redroo wrote:Not sure about those statistics. You really believe that singaporeans are 50pc wealthier than Australians? Singapore is wealthy but it’s not that wealthy.
I agree with everything else you’ve said though. Singapore is more than capable of supporting flights to Berlin and other places without Aussies filling the plane