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User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1232
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:37 pm

The first problem is in the name.
California is not business friendly at all. It was a recipe for disaster from the beginning.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4101
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:39 pm

Well, if anything, Vallas does have some pretty deep pockets, and has run a successful charter before. I am guessing the cash infusions are coming from his FBO?

If they have determined the company isnt going to be successful out of Carlsbad, perhaps they should maintain the ADI operation instead? Perhaps grow the DEN market a little more?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
MO11
Posts: 909
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:05 am

F9Animal wrote:

If they have determined the company isnt going to be successful out of Carlsbad, perhaps they should maintain the ADI operation instead? Perhaps grow the DEN market a little more?


It quit flying charters to concentrate on its scheduled routes. The only scheduled route it currently operates has its losses covered by the government. It has been unsuccessful at gaining similar contracts. Running against UA, WN, or F9 out of DEN would be a lost cause.
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2143
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:00 am

MO11 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:

If they have determined the company isnt going to be successful out of Carlsbad, perhaps they should maintain the ADI operation instead? Perhaps grow the DEN market a little more?


It quit flying charters to concentrate on its scheduled routes. The only scheduled route it currently operates has its losses covered by the government. It has been unsuccessful at gaining similar contracts. Running against UA, WN, or F9 out of DEN would be a lost cause.


1. The government does not cover their entire losses. The government gives them what they bid over the life of the contract, nothing more. If CPA bid too low for the life of the contract, too bad for CPA.


2. I don't think that the idea of running against UA F9 and WN was what was intended by poster. That would most definitely be ill-advised. I understood it as trying to expand their EAS ( and/or at-risk) footprint from DEN. As you state, they have had little success in obtaining them, but maybe just keep plugging away at them or trying to get into the Wyoming Aviation deal that the state is trying to start/expand.


In any event, future does not look favorable to any long term viability IMO.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3660
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:19 am

Would it be wiser to call up SkyWest and CPA 2-3 airplanes and slap your name on the side of it. Let them do all of the flying for a few years while you get your brand in order. Let them deal with flying the airplanes. I’m sure they could activate 3 paid off CR2’s fairly quickly and run a small airline operation with it.

Seems absolutely insane to start from square 1. I’m no fan of contracting out, but maybe in the beginning it’s not such a bad idea.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23124
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:46 am

Vallas appoints new CEO

https://www.osidenews.com/2019/01/02/ca ... r-airline/

=

Good luck to the new hire
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
janders
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:53 pm

Yes good luck to the new man trying to pick up the pieces. Though new CEO is a retired Capt, not exactly in the prime of his business life.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:07 pm

The guy is probably a golfing buddy of Vallas.
 
User avatar
janders
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:37 am

More from the mayors of Pierre and Watertown.

They call the CP Air service "downright awful”

http://www.hubcityradio.com/2019/01/04/ ... -airlines/
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
User avatar
janders
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:01 pm

The bad news is that California Pacific's bumpy start could doom it. The carrier's business plan is based on appealing to business travelers and leisure travelers from northern San Diego County by offering greater convenience than rivals such as Southwest Airlines that operate at San Diego International Airport.

California's New Airline May Be Dead Already
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/californ ... 00955.html
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 2839
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm

janders wrote:
More from the mayors of Pierre and Watertown.

They call the CP Air service "downright awful”

http://www.hubcityradio.com/2019/01/04/ ... -airlines/


What's especially disappointing about this is that traffic has (or had) been thriving with this service, especially at Watertown. Hopefully this is resolved pretty quickly one way or another as we've seen the poor reliability of an EAS carrier kill one market after another over the years. If these guys can't pull it together quickly one would hope SkyWest would be willing to add them to the roster of Denver EAS routes. Even in that scenario there would likely be a gap unless Cal Pacific continues to operate as a lame duck right to the point SkyWest takes over, likely at least 45-60+ days from the point of a (theoretical) award to SkyWest.
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:20 pm

knope2001 wrote:
janders wrote:
More from the mayors of Pierre and Watertown.

They call the CP Air service "downright awful”

http://www.hubcityradio.com/2019/01/04/ ... -airlines/


What's especially disappointing about this is that traffic has (or had) been thriving with this service, especially at Watertown. Hopefully this is resolved pretty quickly one way or another as we've seen the poor reliability of an EAS carrier kill one market after another over the years. If these guys can't pull it together quickly one would hope SkyWest would be willing to add them to the roster of Denver EAS routes. Even in that scenario there would likely be a gap unless Cal Pacific continues to operate as a lame duck right to the point SkyWest takes over, likely at least 45-60+ days from the point of a (theoretical) award to SkyWest.


There could be a possibility of Key Lime Air giving it a shot. They did bid on some of the previous EAS routes out of DEN, but did not make the cut due to no code share with United. They now have that in place, and with their small size could ramp up much quicker than others to cover the South Dakota flying.

Frontier 14
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 2839
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:33 pm

Frontier14 wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
janders wrote:
More from the mayors of Pierre and Watertown.

They call the CP Air service "downright awful”

http://www.hubcityradio.com/2019/01/04/ ... -airlines/


What's especially disappointing about this is that traffic has (or had) been thriving with this service, especially at Watertown. Hopefully this is resolved pretty quickly one way or another as we've seen the poor reliability of an EAS carrier kill one market after another over the years. If these guys can't pull it together quickly one would hope SkyWest would be willing to add them to the roster of Denver EAS routes. Even in that scenario there would likely be a gap unless Cal Pacific continues to operate as a lame duck right to the point SkyWest takes over, likely at least 45-60+ days from the point of a (theoretical) award to SkyWest.


There could be a possibility of Key Lime Air giving it a shot. They did bid on some of the previous EAS routes out of DEN, but did not make the cut due to no code share with United. They now have that in place, and with their small size could ramp up much quicker than others to cover the South Dakota flying.

Frontier 14


I forgot about them -- they seem to do reasonably well in Wyoming and they probably could ramp up pretty quickly. Always found it a little strange that SkyWest didn't bid for Pierre and Watertown in the most recent round.
 
User avatar
OAKSpotter
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:00 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:27 am

This doesn't sound good, US DOT set a date until Jan 29 for CP Air to submit an improvement report how they can successfully provide EAS service to PIE and ATY.

http://www.drgnews.com/california-pacif ... watertown/
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4762
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pm

janders wrote:
The bad news is that California Pacific's bumpy start could doom it. The carrier's business plan is based on appealing to business travelers and leisure travelers from northern San Diego County by offering greater convenience than rivals such as Southwest Airlines that operate at San Diego International Airport.

California's New Airline May Be Dead Already
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/californ ... 00955.html


It's a good thing I flew on them when I did!
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23124
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:00 pm

Cities of Pierre and Watertown have asked the DOT issue an Emergency Request for Proposals for replacement EAS service.
The cities say service has further deteriorated in January and carrier has been unable to pay for fuel necessitating cancellation of many flights.

OST-2011-0138
OST-2001-10644
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
janders
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:21 pm

Reading the letter since they had unpaid bills at the airports, they started to pay for fuel via a credit card, but now that stopped also.

Does not sound good at all.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
drdisque
Posts: 876
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:35 pm

Vallas stated in the media that he had paid off the airline's debt to the PIR airport and the motel in ATY. I suspect that he wrote a personal check to do so.
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:41 am

CP Air can’t buy fuel


Pierre, Watertown mayors ask feds for emergency move to let them find new airline Mayors: CP Air can’t buy fuel
https://www.capjournal.com/news/pierre- ... f6cfa.html
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23124
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:10 pm

DOT agrees with Pierre and Watertown and issued Order Requesting Proposals for service to the two towns. Proposals are due by February 13, 2019.

Order 2019-1-2
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3660
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:23 pm

I imagine we’ll see OO put in a winning bid for UA service.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
drdisque
Posts: 876
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:33 pm

I can see OO bidding on just PIR. ATY is over 500 miles from either DEN or ORD. They might get stuck with Boutique service to MSP (which isn't terrible, better than the no service they had before). I don't see OO using the multi-stop routing that is currently flown (no OO EAS destination is exclusively served by flights that stop on their way to a hub - DVL has daily nonstops to DEN in the summer and 5x weekly in the winter, with their other flight stopping in JMS). That being said DVL is significantly further from DEN than ATY so maybe I'm being overly pessimistic.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1674
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:49 pm

drdisque wrote:
I can see OO bidding on just PIR. ATY is over 500 miles from either DEN or ORD. They might get stuck with Boutique service to MSP (which isn't terrible, better than the no service they had before). I don't see OO using the multi-stop routing that is currently flown (no OO EAS destination is exclusively served by flights that stop on their way to a hub - DVL has daily nonstops to DEN in the summer and 5x weekly in the winter, with their other flight stopping in JMS). That being said DVL is significantly further from DEN than ATY so maybe I'm being overly pessimistic.


Maybe they could mirror the DEN-HYS-SLN-ORD pattern. That seems to be a good formula._
 
joeblow10
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:45 pm

drdisque wrote:
I can see OO bidding on just PIR. ATY is over 500 miles from either DEN or ORD. They might get stuck with Boutique service to MSP (which isn't terrible, better than the no service they had before). I don't see OO using the multi-stop routing that is currently flown (no OO EAS destination is exclusively served by flights that stop on their way to a hub - DVL has daily nonstops to DEN in the summer and 5x weekly in the winter, with their other flight stopping in JMS). That being said DVL is significantly further from DEN than ATY so maybe I'm being overly pessimistic.


I would guess (and could be 100% wrong) that PIR and ATY want to remain connected to one another - there actually is a decent amount of business to be done in PIR, being the state capital.

ZK used to serve HON (Huron - much further southwest of Watertown and closer to Pierre). Watertown is much better positioned to get service as it pulls from a lot of folks who live along I-29 from Sioux Falls North and West, even East into MN.

I’m sure we’ll see bids from OO, Boutique, and possibly Denver Air Connection - but if the cities want to remain linked to one another, I’m guessing that’ll weigh on the cost/decision. It sounds like they’ve been working pretty closely in this process
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1562
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Updated: California Pacific Airlines has a start date! November 1st

Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:46 am

payroll was missed again
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