California Pacific News and Discussion Thread

F9Animal · Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:39 pm

Well, if anything, Vallas does have some pretty deep pockets, and has run a successful charter before. I am guessing the cash infusions are coming from his FBO?

If they have determined the company isnt going to be successful out of Carlsbad, perhaps they should maintain the ADI operation instead? Perhaps grow the DEN market a little more?

MO11 · Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:05 am

F9Animal wrote:

If they have determined the company isnt going to be successful out of Carlsbad, perhaps they should maintain the ADI operation instead? Perhaps grow the DEN market a little more?

It quit flying charters to concentrate on its scheduled routes. The only scheduled route it currently operates has its losses covered by the government. It has been unsuccessful at gaining similar contracts. Running against UA, WN, or F9 out of DEN would be a lost cause.

mtnwest1979 · Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:00 am

MO11 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:

If they have determined the company isnt going to be successful out of Carlsbad, perhaps they should maintain the ADI operation instead? Perhaps grow the DEN market a little more?

It quit flying charters to concentrate on its scheduled routes. The only scheduled route it currently operates has its losses covered by the government. It has been unsuccessful at gaining similar contracts. Running against UA, WN, or F9 out of DEN would be a lost cause.

1. The government does not cover their entire losses. The government gives them what they bid over the life of the contract, nothing more. If CPA bid too low for the life of the contract, too bad for CPA.

2. I don't think that the idea of running against UA F9 and WN was what was intended by poster. That would most definitely be ill-advised. I understood it as trying to expand their EAS ( and/or at-risk) footprint from DEN. As you state, they have had little success in obtaining them, but maybe just keep plugging away at them or trying to get into the Wyoming Aviation deal that the state is trying to start/expand.

In any event, future does not look favorable to any long term viability IMO.

jetmatt777 · Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:19 am

Would it be wiser to call up SkyWest and CPA 2-3 airplanes and slap your name on the side of it. Let them do all of the flying for a few years while you get your brand in order. Let them deal with flying the airplanes. I’m sure they could activate 3 paid off CR2’s fairly quickly and run a small airline operation with it.

Seems absolutely insane to start from square 1. I’m no fan of contracting out, but maybe in the beginning it’s not such a bad idea.

LAXintl · Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:46 am

Vallas appoints new CEO

https://www.osidenews.com/2019/01/02/ca ... r-airline/

=

Good luck to the new hire

janders · Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:53 pm

Yes good luck to the new man trying to pick up the pieces. Though new CEO is a retired Capt, not exactly in the prime of his business life.

UPlog · Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:07 pm

The guy is probably a golfing buddy of Vallas.

janders · Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:37 am

More from the mayors of Pierre and Watertown.

They call the CP Air service "downright awful”

http://www.hubcityradio.com/2019/01/04/ ... -airlines/

janders · Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:01 pm

The bad news is that California Pacific's bumpy start could doom it. The carrier's business plan is based on appealing to business travelers and leisure travelers from northern San Diego County by offering greater convenience than rivals such as Southwest Airlines that operate at San Diego International Airport.

California's New Airline May Be Dead Already
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/californ ... 00955.html

knope2001 · Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm

janders wrote:
More from the mayors of Pierre and Watertown.

They call the CP Air service "downright awful”

http://www.hubcityradio.com/2019/01/04/ ... -airlines/

What's especially disappointing about this is that traffic has (or had) been thriving with this service, especially at Watertown. Hopefully this is resolved pretty quickly one way or another as we've seen the poor reliability of an EAS carrier kill one market after another over the years. If these guys can't pull it together quickly one would hope SkyWest would be willing to add them to the roster of Denver EAS routes. Even in that scenario there would likely be a gap unless Cal Pacific continues to operate as a lame duck right to the point SkyWest takes over, likely at least 45-60+ days from the point of a (theoretical) award to SkyWest.

Frontier14 · Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:20 pm

knope2001 wrote:
janders wrote:
More from the mayors of Pierre and Watertown.

They call the CP Air service "downright awful”

http://www.hubcityradio.com/2019/01/04/ ... -airlines/

What's especially disappointing about this is that traffic has (or had) been thriving with this service, especially at Watertown. Hopefully this is resolved pretty quickly one way or another as we've seen the poor reliability of an EAS carrier kill one market after another over the years. If these guys can't pull it together quickly one would hope SkyWest would be willing to add them to the roster of Denver EAS routes. Even in that scenario there would likely be a gap unless Cal Pacific continues to operate as a lame duck right to the point SkyWest takes over, likely at least 45-60+ days from the point of a (theoretical) award to SkyWest.

There could be a possibility of Key Lime Air giving it a shot. They did bid on some of the previous EAS routes out of DEN, but did not make the cut due to no code share with United. They now have that in place, and with their small size could ramp up much quicker than others to cover the South Dakota flying.

Frontier 14

knope2001 · Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:33 pm

Frontier14 wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
janders wrote:
More from the mayors of Pierre and Watertown.

They call the CP Air service "downright awful”

http://www.hubcityradio.com/2019/01/04/ ... -airlines/

What's especially disappointing about this is that traffic has (or had) been thriving with this service, especially at Watertown. Hopefully this is resolved pretty quickly one way or another as we've seen the poor reliability of an EAS carrier kill one market after another over the years. If these guys can't pull it together quickly one would hope SkyWest would be willing to add them to the roster of Denver EAS routes. Even in that scenario there would likely be a gap unless Cal Pacific continues to operate as a lame duck right to the point SkyWest takes over, likely at least 45-60+ days from the point of a (theoretical) award to SkyWest.

There could be a possibility of Key Lime Air giving it a shot. They did bid on some of the previous EAS routes out of DEN, but did not make the cut due to no code share with United. They now have that in place, and with their small size could ramp up much quicker than others to cover the South Dakota flying.

Frontier 14

I forgot about them -- they seem to do reasonably well in Wyoming and they probably could ramp up pretty quickly. Always found it a little strange that SkyWest didn't bid for Pierre and Watertown in the most recent round.

OAKSpotter · Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:27 am

This doesn't sound good, US DOT set a date until Jan 29 for CP Air to submit an improvement report how they can successfully provide EAS service to PIE and ATY.

http://www.drgnews.com/california-pacif ... watertown/

wedgetail737 · Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pm

janders wrote:
The bad news is that California Pacific's bumpy start could doom it. The carrier's business plan is based on appealing to business travelers and leisure travelers from northern San Diego County by offering greater convenience than rivals such as Southwest Airlines that operate at San Diego International Airport.

California's New Airline May Be Dead Already
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/californ ... 00955.html

It's a good thing I flew on them when I did!

LAXintl · Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:00 pm

Cities of Pierre and Watertown have asked the DOT issue an Emergency Request for Proposals for replacement EAS service.
The cities say service has further deteriorated in January and carrier has been unable to pay for fuel necessitating cancellation of many flights.

OST-2011-0138
OST-2001-10644

janders · Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:21 pm

Reading the letter since they had unpaid bills at the airports, they started to pay for fuel via a credit card, but now that stopped also.

Does not sound good at all.

drdisque · Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:35 pm

Vallas stated in the media that he had paid off the airline's debt to the PIR airport and the motel in ATY. I suspect that he wrote a personal check to do so.

UPlog · Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:41 am

CP Air can’t buy fuel

Pierre, Watertown mayors ask feds for emergency move to let them find new airline Mayors: CP Air can’t buy fuel
https://www.capjournal.com/news/pierre- ... f6cfa.html

LAXintl · Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:10 pm

DOT agrees with Pierre and Watertown and issued Order Requesting Proposals for service to the two towns. Proposals are due by February 13, 2019.

Order 2019-1-2

jetmatt777 · Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:23 pm

I imagine we’ll see OO put in a winning bid for UA service.

drdisque · Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:33 pm

I can see OO bidding on just PIR. ATY is over 500 miles from either DEN or ORD. They might get stuck with Boutique service to MSP (which isn't terrible, better than the no service they had before). I don't see OO using the multi-stop routing that is currently flown (no OO EAS destination is exclusively served by flights that stop on their way to a hub - DVL has daily nonstops to DEN in the summer and 5x weekly in the winter, with their other flight stopping in JMS). That being said DVL is significantly further from DEN than ATY so maybe I'm being overly pessimistic.

RJNUT · Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:49 pm

drdisque wrote:
I can see OO bidding on just PIR. ATY is over 500 miles from either DEN or ORD. They might get stuck with Boutique service to MSP (which isn't terrible, better than the no service they had before). I don't see OO using the multi-stop routing that is currently flown (no OO EAS destination is exclusively served by flights that stop on their way to a hub - DVL has daily nonstops to DEN in the summer and 5x weekly in the winter, with their other flight stopping in JMS). That being said DVL is significantly further from DEN than ATY so maybe I'm being overly pessimistic.

Maybe they could mirror the DEN-HYS-SLN-ORD pattern. That seems to be a good formula._

joeblow10 · Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:45 pm

drdisque wrote:
I can see OO bidding on just PIR. ATY is over 500 miles from either DEN or ORD. They might get stuck with Boutique service to MSP (which isn't terrible, better than the no service they had before). I don't see OO using the multi-stop routing that is currently flown (no OO EAS destination is exclusively served by flights that stop on their way to a hub - DVL has daily nonstops to DEN in the summer and 5x weekly in the winter, with their other flight stopping in JMS). That being said DVL is significantly further from DEN than ATY so maybe I'm being overly pessimistic.

I would guess (and could be 100% wrong) that PIR and ATY want to remain connected to one another - there actually is a decent amount of business to be done in PIR, being the state capital.

ZK used to serve HON (Huron - much further southwest of Watertown and closer to Pierre). Watertown is much better positioned to get service as it pulls from a lot of folks who live along I-29 from Sioux Falls North and West, even East into MN.

I’m sure we’ll see bids from OO, Boutique, and possibly Denver Air Connection - but if the cities want to remain linked to one another, I’m guessing that’ll weigh on the cost/decision. It sounds like they’ve been working pretty closely in this process

usxguy · Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:46 am

payroll was missed again

RJNUT · Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:46 pm

appears to be over for S. Dakota EAS routes as well

http://www.drgnews.com/end-of-californi ... ears-near/

BBDFlyer · Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:57 pm

https://www.capjournal.com/news/califor ... 41268.html

California Pacific Airlines stops flying to Pierre, Watertown; city officials seek alternative

wedgetail737 · Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:59 pm

It wouldn't surprise me if CPAir is dead.

flyoregon · Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:19 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if CPAir is dead.

Probably safe to say at this point. Not a bad idea, just terribly executed and managed. But, Ted Vallas wanted an airline and he got it. He should have invested money into making sure the operation was managed by people who knew what they were doing rather than people who just skated by. Aerodynamics has a terrible history in the last decade, and that should have Been a warning sign. That, or replacing leadership with competent people to run an airline that was counted out before it even began. Even then, chances for success were slim given the uphill battle they’ve faced since Day 1.

Gulfstream500 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:39 am

They could have chosen to fly in any market in the US - and they chose California, probably the single worst place in the US to start an airline. They would have been better off in an east coast market (like Boston, Pittsburgh, or Cleveland) to start a new airline. These markets are the only places where new airlines (JetBlue, Via) have been sucessful/in existance for more than a year.

qcpilotxf · Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:21 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if CPAir is dead.

Just heard from someone that is friends with a bunch of people from ADI that their only flyable airplane has been repossessed and that their entire OCC has been laid off..... so id call that dead

Wingtips56 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:43 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
They could have chosen to fly in any market in the US - and they chose California, probably the single worst place in the US to start an airline. They would have been better off in an east coast market (like Boston, Pittsburgh, or Cleveland) to start a new airline. These markets are the only places where new airlines (JetBlue, Via) have been sucessful/in existance for more than a year.

The point was to provide service at CLD, for northern San Diego County. Starting a new airline on the East Coast would be irrelevant.

KLMatSJC · Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:50 am

An airline lasted through only one a.net thread. That's got to be a record.

Polot · Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:59 am

flyoregon wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if CPAir is dead.

Probably safe to say at this point. Not a bad idea, just terribly executed and managed. But, Ted Vallas wanted an airline and he got it. He should have invested money into making sure the operation was managed by people who knew what they were doing rather than people who just skated by. Aerodynamics has a terrible history in the last decade, and that should have Been a warning sign. That, or replacing leadership with competent people to run an airline that was counted out before it even began. Even then, chances for success were slim given the uphill battle they’ve faced since Day 1.

No it was a bad idea from the start with no long term plan. That is why CPAir 1.0 failed to ever get enough investment to get off the ground. Ted Vallas may have had a dream and a successful business career but we don’t have to go around pretending that it was some great idea but poorly executed. Even successful business men get things wrong. If you want more CLD service you try and use money to attract existing carriers, you don’t start up an airline dedicated to flying out there (with no real guidance on how the airline grows and maintains profitability when it maxes out CLD).

steeler83 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:57 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
An airline lasted through only one a.net thread. That's got to be a record.

I'll say. I don't know what business this guy had even starting up any business, let alone an airline. He's pushing his late '90s. If I get to be 97, I want to be sitting in a rocking chair, on my patio, watching the news and drinking a mimosa or long island tea depending on the time of day.

usxguy · Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:21 pm

Im hearing whats happening is worthy of a movie script right out of Hollywood. Its not entirely dead.

KLMatSJC · Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:43 pm

usxguy wrote:
Im hearing whats happening is worthy of a movie script right out of Hollywood. Its not entirely dead.

Care to share? Is Ted going to fly the E145 himself?

hOMSaR · Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:11 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
An airline lasted through only one a.net thread. That's got to be a record.

To be fair, under the old site this thread would be long enough for a Part 2.

MO11 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:03 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
An airline lasted through only one a.net thread. That's got to be a record.

To be fair, under the old site this thread would be long enough for a Part 2.

Actually, there was a second thread

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1410475

Slug71 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:24 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
They could have chosen to fly in any market in the US - and they chose California, probably the single worst place in the US to start an airline. They would have been better off in an east coast market (like Boston, Pittsburgh, or Cleveland) to start a new airline. These markets are the only places where new airlines (JetBlue, Via) have been sucessful/in existance for more than a year.

The point was to provide service at CLD, for northern San Diego County. Starting a new airline on the East Coast would be irrelevant.

California is still the worst possible place for an airline. Or even a business, period.
Should have called it PNW (Pacific North West) Airlines and started it in Oregon at minimum. There are several surrounding States that could have been chosen too. And still serve those intended markets.

usxguy · Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:34 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Im hearing whats happening is worthy of a movie script right out of Hollywood. Its not entirely dead.

Care to share? Is Ted going to fly the E145 himself?

Amazingly Mr. Vallas and the staff are the ones who were harmed (well, and the passengers). I can't say too much, but it will all come out soon.

travaz · Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:48 am

This is starting to sound like someone who wanted an Airline badly got taken for a ride and got fleeced.

F9Animal · Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:10 am

usxguy wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Im hearing whats happening is worthy of a movie script right out of Hollywood. Its not entirely dead.

Care to share? Is Ted going to fly the E145 himself?

Amazingly Mr. Vallas and the staff are the ones who were harmed (well, and the passengers). I can't say too much, but it will all come out soon.

That just sucks. Vallas has had success in the aviation industry, and he also ran a pretty successful charter airline. It sounds like he handed off the plans to someone he trusted, and well.... Didnt control it close enough. Am I leaning in the right direction?

Gulfstream500 · Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:28 am

I’m pretty sure that one of the CPAir ERJs was just repoed or put into storage - no longer under CPAir airline operation on flightaware, sent on flight from CRQ-PUB-GNV-FLL (oddly enough diverted twice).

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N35 ... /KPUB/KFLL

fraspotter · Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:41 am

This could be a first. An airline starts up and shuts down all within the lifespan of a single A.net thread?

LAXBUR · Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:47 am

Slug71 wrote:
Wingtips56 wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
They could have chosen to fly in any market in the US - and they chose California, probably the single worst place in the US to start an airline. They would have been better off in an east coast market (like Boston, Pittsburgh, or Cleveland) to start a new airline. These markets are the only places where new airlines (JetBlue, Via) have been sucessful/in existance for more than a year.

The point was to provide service at CLD, for northern San Diego County. Starting a new airline on the East Coast would be irrelevant.

California is still the worst possible place for an airline. Or even a business, period.
Should have called it PNW (Pacific North West) Airlines and started it in Oregon at minimum. There are several surrounding States that could have been chosen too. And still serve those intended markets.

Any proof this airline’s issues are related to California business policies?

jimbo737 · Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:07 pm

Ted steadfastly ignored a lot of good advice over the past 10 years.

He was going to do it, regardless. He seemed desperate to subsidize others travel costs.

Add one to the list of airlines started out of “hometown” airports not because it made business sense, but because it was someone’s “hometown” and more convenient.

KICT · Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:09 pm

Slug71 wrote:
California is not business friendly at all. It was a recipe for disaster from the beginning.

California is the 5th largest economy on the planet.
53 of the Fortune 500 companies are based there.

AirFiero · Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:14 pm

KICT wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
California is not business friendly at all. It was a recipe for disaster from the beginning.

California is the 5th largest economy on the planet.
53 of the Fortune 500 companies are based there.

Here, this will get you started...

http://www.newgeography.com/content/001 ... ny-leaving

classicjets · Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:12 pm

The first iteration of California Pacific stalled due to issues getting certification from the federal government (in addition to funding problems).
The company as it is now is incorporated in Georgia and has its operations centre there.
Yes, there is the issue of local residents opposing airport/runway expansion at Carlsbad, but that wasn't holding back CPA's recent short-haul flying.

Gulfstream500 · Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:08 pm

It’s not that California is bad for new businesses - it’s that it’s terrible for the airline business. Unless you’re flying some essential air service route, then you’re probably going to encounter some competition with the majors. For example, they’re competing with significantly cheaper airlines at SAN. They also have a tremendous amount of competition with WN - most of their routes operate cheaply, and with many more convienient frequencies (some 15 per day on SAN-SMF, LAS, and PHX each). I’d much rather fly WN, given the fact that CPAir might not be good with safety, and WN has much more convenient flight times.

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