California Pacific News and Discussion Thread

LAXintl · Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:01 am

96-year-old millionaire Ted Vallas is again trying to get his California Pacific Airlines dream off the ground.

This time CP Air has decided to purchase an operating certificate by acquiring Georgia based Aerodynamics, Inc which operates 5 ERJ145s and pair of EMB170s.

CP Air now says they plan to launch service from Carlsbad base to markets like Sacramento, Oakland, San Jose, Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Cabo San Lucas as soon as April 2018.

Okay, California Pacific Airlines ready again
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/201 ... dy-again/#

=

Good luck I suppose. The per-seat economic viability of standalone small jets ops remains a challenge very few have overcome.

jetmechanicdave · Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:07 am

My bad guys go ahead and continue posting.

XAM2175 · Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:14 am

Wasn't CP Air Canadian Pacific?

bw50505 · Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:38 am

XAM2175 wrote:
Wasn't CP Air Canadian Pacific?

In the article California Pacific Airlines is referred to as CP Air (more specifically CPAir).

aerolimani · Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:48 am

Orange forever!!!

NBGSkyGod · Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:02 pm

LAXintl wrote:
96-year-old millionaire Ted Vallas is again trying to get his California Pacific Airlines dream off the ground.

This time CP Air has decided to purchase an operating certificate by acquiring Georgia based Aerodynamics, Inc which operates 5 ERJ145s and pair of EMB170s.

CP Air now says they plan to launch service from Carlsbad base to markets like Sacramento, Oakland, San Jose, Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Cabo San Lucas as soon as April 2018.

Okay, California Pacific Airlines ready again
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/201 ... dy-again/#

=

Good luck I suppose. The per-seat economic viability of standalone small jets ops remains a challenge very few have overcome.

Wait, wasn't he a billionaire the last time he did this?

mercure1 · Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:48 pm

I love the CP Air name, though I have doubts about the viability of using small planes when they are competing against mainline players in market.

qcpilotxf · Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:22 pm

LAXintl wrote:
96-year-old millionaire Ted Vallas is again trying to get his California Pacific Airlines dream off the ground.

This time CP Air has decided to purchase an operating certificate by acquiring Georgia based Aerodynamics, Inc which operates 5 ERJ145s and pair of EMB170s.

CP Air now says they plan to launch service from Carlsbad base to markets like Sacramento, Oakland, San Jose, Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Cabo San Lucas as soon as April 2018.

Okay, California Pacific Airlines ready again
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/201 ... dy-again/#

=

Good luck I suppose. The per-seat economic viability of standalone small jets ops remains a challenge very few have overcome.

Is there an article confirming that it is ADI that they purchased? While the aircraft profile fits, I can't seem to find an article stating that

wrongwayup · Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:15 pm

NBGSkyGod wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
96-year-old millionaire Ted Vallas is again trying to get his California Pacific Airlines dream off the ground.

This time CP Air has decided to purchase an operating certificate by acquiring Georgia based Aerodynamics, Inc which operates 5 ERJ145s and pair of EMB170s.

CP Air now says they plan to launch service from Carlsbad base to markets like Sacramento, Oakland, San Jose, Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Cabo San Lucas as soon as April 2018.

Okay, California Pacific Airlines ready again
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/201 ... dy-again/#

=

Good luck I suppose. The per-seat economic viability of standalone small jets ops remains a challenge very few have overcome.

Wait, wasn't he a billionaire the last time he did this?

Becoming a millionaire in the airline business the traditional way.

rajincajun01 · Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:35 pm

First class on a E145? 4 seats?

LAXintl · Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:51 pm

They will certainly will have an uphill battle going against mainline options from airports like SAN/SNA. Folks like SWA will define market pricing, and using regional aircraft with high seat cost will definitely be a challenge.

qcpilotxf wrote:
Is there an article confirming that it is ADI that they purchased? While the aircraft profile fits, I can't seem to find an article stating that

Linked article mentions SkyValue Airways, which is the marketing name that ADI uses for its scheduled EAS flying and mentions Darrell Richardson president CEO of ADI would become CEO of CP Air.

F9Animal · Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:37 pm

This is great news!!! I had a funny feeling Vargas wasn't giving up on his dream. I also hope the nay sayers are proven wrong!!!

COSPN · Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:57 pm

Wow 96 years old hope it works this time ...

SSRJ · Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:53 pm

He's young at heart

jimbo737 · Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:17 pm

Speaking from experience, I can categorically say that CP will vigorously defend their brand in the America’s.

There is virtually no way California Pacific, if it ever gets off the ground, will be able to use CP in any of their marketing / branding pieces.

FATFlyer · Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:45 pm

California Pacific Air received US registration of "CP AIr" as a service mark on April 26, 2011. The application was published for opposition in 2010 and no entity filed a protest with the USPTO.
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield ... zt89p7.3.1

Someone else can doublecheck, but I did a quick search of the Canadian trademark database and do not see an active trademark on "CP Air".

Dominion301 · Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:04 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
Speaking from experience, I can categorically say that CP will vigorously defend their brand in the America’s.

There is virtually no way California Pacific, if it ever gets off the ground, will be able to use CP in any of their marketing / branding pieces.

It's been a good +15 years since Canadian Pacific Railway has referred to itself as CP Rail.

CP Air is over 30 years ago now....HOWEVER ORANGE IS STILL BEAUTIFUL...especially compared to the Eurowhite world so many airlines live in nowadays.

The thing I don't get is why since the get-go have E-Jets been the dream of this new CP Air? This operation screams Q400 like Porter does so successfully.

ridgid727 · Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:55 am

If California Pacific bought ADI (Aeroedynamics- SkyValue) does anyone know if they will continue with their Great Lakes Jet Connect using the EMB145"s. Those contracts for EAS into South Dakota do not run out until the end of July 2018, and they state, that theyintend on starting CLD serrvice April 1st.?

LAXintl · Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:41 pm

Vallas still looking for investors - SEC has approved stock sales.

Hoping for April 1st (interesting date choice) launch using 44 seat ERJ145s and 64 seat EMB170 to Sacramento, Phoenix, Tucson, Oakland, San Jose and Cabo San Lucas, Mexico.

http://www.thecoastnews.com/2018/01/15/ ... the-skies/

drdisque · Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:51 pm

All that happened is that Ted Vallas bought ADI from the Beardsleys (who were the former owners of Seaport) and now says they're going to fly from CRQ. Buying an already operating and certificated carrier certainly makes the whole thing a lot easier.

ADI will be held in on the DEN-PIR-ATY route if they want to drop it since they are clearly still planning on staying in operation. If they do give notice to drop it, then it will be put out to bid. I don't know if OO would bid on it. If they don't the only bidder would likely be Boutique.

XAM2175 · Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:05 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
Speaking from experience, I can categorically say that CP will vigorously defend their brand in the America’s.

It's been a good +15 years since Canadian Pacific Railway has referred to itself as CP Rail.

I haven't gone trawling through the trademark databases but Canadian Pacific do still actively use the "CP" wordmark and logotype in both Canada and US, so there could be grounds for their defending against a certain amount of infringement as the new entity will obviously also be in the transport field.

There would also be the question of what CP Air intellectual property survived the 1987 merger with PWA and re-branding to Canadian Airlines, and what of that passed to Air Canada in 2000.

Dominion301 · Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:02 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
Speaking from experience, I can categorically say that CP will vigorously defend their brand in the America’s.

It's been a good +15 years since Canadian Pacific Railway has referred to itself as CP Rail.

I haven't gone trawling through the trademark databases but Canadian Pacific do still actively use the "CP" wordmark and logotype in both Canada and US, so there could be grounds for their defending against a certain amount of infringement as the new entity will obviously also be in the transport field.

There would also be the question of what CP Air intellectual property survived the 1987 merger with PWA and re-branding to Canadian Airlines, and what of that passed to Air Canada in 2000.

Very true on both fronts. The modern CP never seems to attach the 'Rail' part to their acronym nowadays though. However, referring to them as CP or CP Rail is still quite common.

wedgetail737 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:12 pm

I somehow think that CA Pacific Airlines will NOT start up in April 2018, considering it's only a week away. So far, their website, www.flycpair.com, has NOT been activated. Again, I'm feeling skeptical.

SSRJ · Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:28 pm

Well, the purchase finally went through. And last I checked (about 2 minutes ago) we at ADI still have 4 aircraft on the D085.
However, there is still quite a bit of work to do for the Carlsbad operation to take off. Will be a very exciting ride at least!

ridgid727 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:27 pm

So with the purchase going through, are they gong to abandon Pierre SD and Watertown SD as Great Lakes Jet Connect?
http://www.thepublicopinion.com/news/lo ... a7c79.html

MO11 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:15 pm

ridgid727 wrote:
So with the purchase going through, are they gong to abandon Pierre SD and Watertown SD as Great Lakes Jet Connect?

No. But it eventually intends to lose the "Great Lakes" branding and operates as SkyValue once interline agreements are negotiated. Great Lakes has also bid for this contract.

wedgetail737 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:57 pm

SSRJ wrote:
Well, the purchase finally went through. And last I checked (about 2 minutes ago) we at ADI still have 4 aircraft on the D085.
However, there is still quite a bit of work to do for the Carlsbad operation to take off. Will be a very exciting ride at least!

Will any of the 145's (or 175's) be painted up in CA Pacific colors before start-up?

ridgid727 · Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:52 pm

MO11 wrote:
ridgid727 wrote:
So with the purchase going through, are they gong to abandon Pierre SD and Watertown SD as Great Lakes Jet Connect?

No. But it eventually intends to lose the "Great Lakes" branding and operates as SkyValue once interline agreements are negotiated. Great Lakes has also bid for this contract.

The value in the Great Lakes Jet Connect is the that they are not considered a "charter operator as ADI truly is, and they have interline connections and ticketing and baggage checking worldwide because of the agreements ZK has forged throughout the years. Why the SkyValue name if its going to be California Pacific?

MO11 · Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:37 am

ridgid727 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
ridgid727 wrote:
So with the purchase going through, are they gong to abandon Pierre SD and Watertown SD as Great Lakes Jet Connect?

No. But it eventually intends to lose the "Great Lakes" branding and operates as SkyValue once interline agreements are negotiated. Great Lakes has also bid for this contract.

The value in the Great Lakes Jet Connect is the that they are not considered a "charter operator as ADI truly is, and they have interline connections and ticketing and baggage checking worldwide because of the agreements ZK has forged throughout the years. Why the SkyValue name if its going to be California Pacific?

Well, yes, the Great Lakes code share was used to gain access to a CRS as well as interline agreements (which backfired for the Youngstown service).

The SkyValue information came from the South Dakota bid, at the time it was submitted, the California Pacfic deal hadn't closed.

usxguy · Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:00 am

ADI received scheduled authority a few years ago...

Goodyear · Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:11 am

Good luck attracting pilots.

ridgid727 · Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:37 pm

SSRJ wrote:
Well, the purchase finally went through. And last I checked (about 2 minutes ago) we at ADI still have 4 aircraft on the D085.
However, there is still quite a bit of work to do for the Carlsbad operation to take off. Will be a very exciting ride at least!

With the purchase going through, there doesn't seem to be any news releases or public announcements. With a certificate in hand now, will California Pacific start Carlsbad operations, or has the CalJet Elite Service put a damper on that?

ahj2000 · Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:28 pm

With all the new service at Lindbergh, I doubt this will last.

LAXintl · Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:31 pm

Carlsbad service won't start anytime soon.

Back in February the County stated they had yet to receive a complete application from the airline and would not do so until the purchase closed. Only once the application was received could the County start down the road of required environmental reviews which would be needed before for a lease and operating permits could be granted.
The level of review and associated timeline would depend on the size of operation CPA proposes and its impact on the community.

LAXintl · Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:37 pm

Small update.

Aerodynamics Inc. has applied and received DOT blessing to register and utilize the trade name “California Pacific Airlines”

wedgetail737 · Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:19 pm

At this point, I'll believe it when I see it. But I will keep looking.

F9Animal · Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:47 am

[twoid][/twoid]

wedgetail737 wrote:
SSRJ wrote:
Well, the purchase finally went through. And last I checked (about 2 minutes ago) we at ADI still have 4 aircraft on the D085.
However, there is still quite a bit of work to do for the Carlsbad operation to take off. Will be a very exciting ride at least!

Will any of the 145's (or 175's) be painted up in CA Pacific colors before start-up?

Yes, they will paint them. I had a short conversation with their COO. Get this!!! He even mentioned putting a smile on the plane like PSA did! I really wish them the best, and I really hope they prove the nay sayers wrong. Glad to see Vallas dream come to life.

I think they stand a really good chance here. They will also do good on charters. I do not believe ADI has any 170's. CP is still looking for some 170s according to the conversation with the COO. The 145 should be good for the start though. At least in my opinion. I also like their branding.

F9Animal · Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:02 am

I also wanted to add a little bit to those who dont think CP will make it. Let's not forget about the man who is working hard to get this airline going. Ted Vallas is 96 years old, and has a ton of very successful businesses throughout his life. I read he used to own a large charter airline back in the days. He also runs a very successful FBO. Not to mention that he has hired some incredible talent to get this airline off the ground.

You know they have done thorough homework on it, and no doubt have a strong business plan. The fact remains that Vallas has not given up, and he is going to get this airline flying. I remember when JetBlue got flying. I didn't expect them to last a year. Even Frontier!

I also wont think twice about investing some money in CP. I would be thrilled to see them flourish and turn some heads. Exciting times are coming to Carlsbad, and I hope to take a ride on their first flight.

EvanWSFO · Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:04 am

Even using Carlsbad, they will get killed by WN, AS, and anyone who flies on the left coast.

F9Animal · Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:15 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
Even using Carlsbad, they will get killed by WN, AS, and anyone who flies on the left coast.

I thought the same thing with B6 on the east coast. I have always been fascinated with new startups. I helped get a new airline flying many years ago. The dreams we all had, and the hopes were amazing. I have yet to have anything trump that experience and excitement since.

Not arguing by the way. No doubt it wont be easy. It never is. But!!! I am holding on to hope that one day we can visit this post, and smile. I should search the forums about JetBlue. I am pretty sure alot of posters gave them zero chance. I know I didn't. I expected US Airways was going to do everything to stop them. Now I kick myself for not investing in them!

F9Animal · Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:18 am

By the way, the smile on the plane is something that may come in the future. That isn't their priority at the moment.

SkyVoice · Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:27 am

Well, best wishes to them. You've got to admire their persistence. At least these people are not trying to resurrect some long-dead airline's brand name!

wedgetail737 · Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:42 am

There seemed to be a couple of promised starts only to be shut down. Those dates come and go without any additional press as to why. I really wish (ed) that they would start up, but, yes, I have my doubts. However if CP does post a true startup date and able to buy tickets on their website, I will try to get on one of their inaugural flights.

wedgetail737 · Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:46 am

F9Animal wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
Even using Carlsbad, they will get killed by WN, AS, and anyone who flies on the left coast.

I thought the same thing with B6 on the east coast. I have always been fascinated with new startups. I helped get a new airline flying many years ago. The dreams we all had, and the hopes were amazing. I have yet to have anything trump that experience and excitement since.

Not arguing by the way. No doubt it wont be easy. It never is. But!!! I am holding on to hope that one day we can visit this post, and smile. I should search the forums about JetBlue. I am pretty sure alot of posters gave them zero chance. I know I didn't. I expected US Airways was going to do everything to stop them. Now I kick myself for not investing in them!

Back in the day, I flew on many start-ups (when they were start-ups) like Spirit, Kiwi, Air South, Vanguard, National, ValuJet, Midway, Alpha Air, Sunworld, Reno Air, etc. I was (and still am) a huge fan of start-ups, but they are very few, far-between. Today is nothing like the 1980's and 1990's.

Out of all of the start-ups, my favorites were Midway, National, Reno Air and Sunworld.

Sorry...I digressed.

EvanWSFO · Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:05 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
Even using Carlsbad, they will get killed by WN, AS, and anyone who flies on the left coast.

I thought the same thing with B6 on the east coast. I have always been fascinated with new startups. I helped get a new airline flying many years ago. The dreams we all had, and the hopes were amazing. I have yet to have anything trump that experience and excitement since.

Not arguing by the way. No doubt it wont be easy. It never is. But!!! I am holding on to hope that one day we can visit this post, and smile. I should search the forums about JetBlue. I am pretty sure alot of posters gave them zero chance. I know I didn't. I expected US Airways was going to do everything to stop them. Now I kick myself for not investing in them!

Back in the day, I flew on many start-ups (when they were start-ups) like Spirit, Kiwi, Air South, Vanguard, National, ValuJet, Midway, Alpha Air, Sunworld, Reno Air, etc. I was (and still am) a huge fan of start-ups, but they are very few, far-between. Today is nothing like the 1980's and 1990's.

Out of all of the start-ups, my favorites were Midway, National, Reno Air and Sunworld.

Sorry...I digressed.

Agree. The sheer size of the top 4 U.S. carriers makes it highly unlikely startups could survive long-term. I was just looking through Volume 1 of "Deregulation Knockouts" the other day. There were so many that tried.

AirFiero · Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:24 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:

I thought the same thing with B6 on the east coast. I have always been fascinated with new startups. I helped get a new airline flying many years ago. The dreams we all had, and the hopes were amazing. I have yet to have anything trump that experience and excitement since.

Not arguing by the way. No doubt it wont be easy. It never is. But!!! I am holding on to hope that one day we can visit this post, and smile. I should search the forums about JetBlue. I am pretty sure alot of posters gave them zero chance. I know I didn't. I expected US Airways was going to do everything to stop them. Now I kick myself for not investing in them!

Back in the day, I flew on many start-ups (when they were start-ups) like Spirit, Kiwi, Air South, Vanguard, National, ValuJet, Midway, Alpha Air, Sunworld, Reno Air, etc. I was (and still am) a huge fan of start-ups, but they are very few, far-between. Today is nothing like the 1980's and 1990's.

Out of all of the start-ups, my favorites were Midway, National, Reno Air and Sunworld.

Sorry...I digressed.

Agree. The sheer size of the top 4 U.S. carriers makes it highly unlikely startups could survive long-term. I was just looking through Volume 1 of "Deregulation Knockouts" the other day. There were so many that tried.

What about a niche market, like north county San Diego, where there is no other service?

hawaiian717 · Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:28 pm

AirFiero wrote:
What about a niche market, like north county San Diego, where there is no other service?

The problem is there's not really "no other" service. About 35 mile drive from CLD to SAN, and about 60 mile drive from CLD to SNA. CLD still has to compete with a lot more nonstop and low fare options at both bigger airports. For most people, a lower fare and/or a nonstop flight out of SAN will beat the convenience of a flight from CLD, especially when the only service meant having to connect at LAX or PHX. California Pacific's plan to offer nonstop service in local markets probably makes the most sense, when the extra time involved in getting down to SAN makes a bigger impact on overall travel time. But they can't command much of a price premium over Southwest for that convenience.

janders · Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:41 pm

The issue is market pricing will be driven by likes of SWA @ SAN, while CP will also have double edge sword problem with higher seat cost.

Sure now with ADI acquisition they have an AOC and might finally launch service, but they hardly have a long-term business model flying RJs at low fares.

AirFiero · Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:43 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
What about a niche market, like north county San Diego, where there is no other service?

The problem is there's not really "no other" service. About 35 mile drive from CLD to SAN, and about 60 mile drive from CLD to SNA. CLD still has to compete with a lot more nonstop and low fare options at both bigger airports. For most people, a lower fare and/or a nonstop flight out of SAN will beat the convenience of a flight from CLD, especially when the only service meant having to connect at LAX or PHX. California Pacific's plan to offer nonstop service in local markets probably makes the most sense, when the extra time involved in getting down to SAN makes a bigger impact on overall travel time. But they can't command much of a price premium over Southwest for that convenience.

That was my point. There is no other comparable service at CLD. Driving 35 or 60 miles in urban California IS a big deal. I’m wondering if there’s a market for that convenience. It won’t compete with WN on low fares, but it will be interesting to see if travelers think it’s worth the price CP will charge.

LAXintl · Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:12 pm

Likes of ExpressJet scheduled service boondoggle showed us that earning fare premium by connecting markets directly is hardly a sure thing.

With CP Air planning relative high-frequency service in many markets (for example, their sample schedule few years ago had 5x daily to Bay Area), they have many seats to fill and will certainly be competing for customer choice against options at SAN and even SNA. If anything CP's ultimate fare earnings might be lower than what others generate at a primary airport like SAN.

All this does not even consider the other side of the coin and reality the CP seat-mile cost will be ~40%'ish higher than mainline operators.

As just mentioned by another poster - this is not a recipe for long-term success. I am hardly sold on the idea that CLD is either special or very large niche market that will consistently produce enough customers willing to pay a premium versus flying out SAN.

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