JetBlue Success is common sense and about 10 years ago its founder, David Neeleman founded a major airline in South America/Brazil (Azul). Most recently he also acquired control of TAP (Portugal/Europe).

That said JetBlue has a current fleet consisting of about 180 A320/A321 and around 60 Embraer E190 Jets. JetBlue´s current market/Target is the USA/Canada and Central/South America, Including, but not limited to, BOG, UIO, MDE, LIM, CUN and MEX.

AZUL Brazilian Airlines has a Fleet of around 125 Aircraft, being 9 A320-NEO (44 orders), 6 A 330 (5 A330 NEO orders), 70 E195/E190 (30 E-2 orders) and 40 ATR72 for regional routes. AZUL´s current market/target includes destinations in Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, French Guiana, Portugal, the United States, and Uruguay (around 110 current destinations). Flights to tne USA includes FLL and MCO from VCP and CNF in Brazil and plans to fly to JFK from VCP connecting all major hubs with A330s.

TAP - Air Portugal is partly owned and managed by Neeleman and its current fleet consists of all AirBus aircraft and focusing in A320/321 and A330s for long haul. TAPs orders are all AirBuses as well. As of June 2017, TAP Air Portugal serves 87 destinations in 34 countries across Europe, Africa, North America and South America, Including 10 destinations in Brazil (São Paulo and Belo Horizonte, which are main hubs for Azul, included ) and 4 in the USA (BOS and JFK, major hubs for JetBlue, included)

That said, Neeleman and his team/associates have a started a new and true transcontinental airline group being a major player in north, central and south america, Europe and connecting Asia (Russia) and Africa (a good number of countries).

The group does not fly to true Asia (Japan, China, Korea) just yet.

JetBlue needs a strong base/hub on the west coast USA to be able to attract customers from central and specially south america? Or would they just make a paradigm shift using JFK as their hub to true Asia? Using a nicer aircraft? A380? As America´s launch customer? Or even just using the remarkable A350?

Flying out of LIS to true Asia is great for Europe and South America Customers, competing with advantages against major players such as AF, BA and LH. The terminal and HUB are ready. Again, Would they launch the A380 for TAP?

AirBus is desperate for a new customer and new ideas for the A380. Would they work with the Blue (Neeleman) Group for it?

I have always wondered why JetBlue and AZUL do not have parted in any Airline Alliance. TAP is still part of Star Alliance.

If they develop the last portion of Asia, the Blues won´t need any alliance. They already cover the major portion necessary.

Great service, Great aircraft, fairly good prices...

Current fleet has already more than 400 units. Most of them AirBus. The A380 would work great conecting the HUBs (JFK, FLL, LIS, VCP/SAO and CNF).

If they find a way to put together a plan for a strong base in California the A380 can be marvelous between JFK, VCP, LIS...

It just might be what AirBus needs.

Jetblue has nothing to do with Neelman in the present if Im not mistaken... TAP is trying to be more like WowAir or Icelandair and Azul is trying to be more like United/Latam... so not quite following besides the existing code share..

I agree TAP is more like a hub airline such as Iceland air... like so it should "collect" as much passengers as possible to connect... and AZUL is more like JetBlue than LaTam or United... yet...

No matter what happens, flying Azul is by far the best experience in Brazilian skies since they came around...
Comparing Azul's service with JJ and G3 is outrageous!
Long life to Azul!

It is known that AZUL and TAP will go for a full Joint Venture quite soon, but AFAIK JetBlue is only a code-share partner. But you're forgetting two important players:

1) The Godfather - HNA Group is apparently sponsoring Neeleman's most recent adventures in the aviation industry. They have shares in AZUL and in the Atlantic Consortium that owns 45% of TAP Air Portugal. They also have their planes already flying from China to Portugal.

2) The New Child - Aigle Azur (french for Blue Eagle), as it was published recently in the media, Neeleman bought 32% of the French airline. It is still not clear what is the strategy for this airline, but I'm assuming there's a big chance it'll take part on this Portuguese-Brazilian joint-venture.

Maybe neeleman can come back to manage jetblue, that would be a huge step up from rh.

I totally disagree with the A380 nonsense, but it would be interesting to see B6, Tap, and Azul form a 4th alliance to compete with star, one world, and skyteam. Other airlines I could see joining are Hawaiian, Indigo, Westjet, Icelandair, the HNA airlines, and even EK or EY (that would really be interesting).

UA still has its strategic investment in Azul, with the BOD seats that came with it, correct?

Yes. United invested 100 million in Azul.

I agree I may be off on the A380 (maybe), but the alliance part makes sense...
Also, I really have forgotten about the HNA participation... makes even more sense...
I did not know about the new venture in France....

tphuang wrote:

Maybe neeleman can come back to manage jetblue, that would be a huge step up from rh.

Why would it be a step up?

China right now is restricting investments abroad which could clip HNA's wings. They have debts and lots of things they could sell like a stake in Hilton Hotels or Swiss handling. Its probably safe to assume HNA will no be making any flashy expansionary investments in foreign airlines any time soon. HNA has Hainan Airlines with tons of 787 and Air Hong Kong with new A350-900 flying to LAX & SFO. Oh Empire building can be so much fun.

I would love to see some A330Neo or A350 for Jet Blue

That, altogether, is an airline alliance by itself...
All Americas, Europe, Africa and Asia...
Huuummmm...
I would bet some money on it...

acreinholz wrote:

That, altogether, is an airline alliance by itself...
All Americas, Europe, Africa and Asia...
Huuummmm...
I would bet some money on it...

And super strategic for AirBus...

Also, Azul have applied for Azul Uruguay...
Further development of South America

http://www.aviacionnews.com/blog/2017/0 ... n-uruguay/

tphuang wrote:

Maybe neeleman can come back to manage jetblue, that would be a huge step up from rh.

No offense, this is a clueless statement. Neeleman ran the company into the ground. He left a company that was unprofitable and an operational mess. He also was no friend of labor (not that that matters)

Barger stabilized the company and it returned to profitability.

Hayes has seen record profits. His downsides include growth problems and labor issues.

Neeleman is a visionary. He is not an operations guy. He has a long track record that speaks to this

In his recent ventures, he seems to have chosen good people to support him...
AZUL? TAP? but that is just my opinion...

jfklganyc wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Maybe neeleman can come back to manage jetblue, that would be a huge step up from rh.

No offense, this is a clueless statement. Neeleman ran the company into the ground. He left a company that was unprofitable and an operational mess. He also was no friend of labor (not that that matters)

Barger stabilized the company and it returned to profitability.

Hayes has seen record profits. His downsides include growth problems and labor issues.

Neeleman is a visionary. He is not an operations guy. He has a long track record that speaks to this

What he said.

I liked barger but while he stabilized things I also think he became to conservative, but he did a much better job communicating the vision for JetBlue. RH seems to be a very quiet person and honestly I have no idea what his plans are. I understand everyone gets all romantic about DN coming back but I don’t see how that would help. Now I wouldn’t be shocked if we get into some giant airline group as others have said.

A few weeks back, there was an article published in ch-aviation that indicated a possible JV between TAP, Azul, Hainan and United Airlines.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... nt-venture

Unfortunately I can't see the full article, since I'm not a member. I assumed it was simply speculation, but, that website is usually accurate in what they report.

JetBlue has a heavy presence in LGB.

LGB does not have the infrastructure for larger aircrafts. Also the connection with other airlines is nearly non-existent

airbazar wrote:

dfpinto wrote:

A few weeks back, there was an article published in ch-aviation that indicated a possible JV between TAP, Azul, Hainan and United Airlines.

I don't see how United comes into this picture given their long standing JV with the Lufthansa group.
A TATL JV between TAP/Azul/United and potentially B6 would be a formidable threat to Lufthansa.
I think we will see Azul/TAP/B6 expand their partnership and possibly establish and Atlantic JV. There isn't a lot of political will in Brazil to allow a Azul/B6 JV, but with TAP as an intermediary, that could loosen things up. TAP still has some political weight in Brazil, thanks in part to their rescue of VEM from Varig, and their willingness to explore secondary markets in Brazil when no one else was willing to. Don't think DN didn't see that as one of the reasons for buying into TAP.

I agree with everything you said but the idea that TAP has political weight in Brazil. As you may be aware, the political tides here come and go in ways that just show how we still have to evolve into a more established and mature democracy. I'm saying that because the fall of Varig and the upbringing of TAM had the Worker's Party (Lula's government) involved in it and they no longer rule since Dilma was ousted from her government. One person/company that have some political will would be DN/Azul, since he had the unique decision explore smaller / regional cities that were not covered by air before. And I dunno if this government will care at all since they are just trying to survive somehow.

On the other hand you also have to think that there is a "hermano" or "hermanos" in the "other side of the mountain" ( aka Andes) that pretty much control the biggest brazilian airline.

jfk777 wrote:

Air Hong Kong with new A350-900 .

A sidenote that Air Hong Kong (LD) is a cargo airlines that is 100% owned by CX. You're talking about Hong Kong Airlines (HX) here.

Michael

https://www.ausbt.com.au/china-southern ... r-oneworld?

China southern to leave one world? Hummmm

airbazar wrote:

Governments may come and go but the rules to play in Brazil tend to stay the same. TAM was never a government owned airline. There are still a lot of influential people in Brazil who had ties to Varig. TAP themselves are still government owned and Fernando Pinto, who is now in charge of TAP was Varig's president and CEO. The government of Portugal is very close to the Brazilian government, regardless of what party is in power. If you believe TAP doesn't have any influence in Brazil, or that LATAM has more influence than TAP, then we'll have to agree to disagree As long as TAP is owned by the government of Portugal, it will always have some influence in Brazil.

You should really look over the term "FLAxFLU" regarding politics
Brazil and Portugal are like cousins that whenever they meet each other they like to shout "saudade" big time and give each other hugs and kisses. But by the time they say goodbye they just could not care less.
Brazil and Portugal have closer links because of their past. It's one of reasons why TAP can fly to more destinations in Brazil than any other European airline. And the same happens with Iberia and the rest of Latin America. Another reason? Fernando Pinto itself that made a (in my opinion) wise choice to look at South America / Brazil.
At the same time his decision to buy the former Varig M/E at GIG is seen as one of reason for the failure and increased debt of the state owned TAP. But this also give TAP a leverage to argue with the Brazilian government. That's it.

Now I still wonder what kind of influence does the government of Portugal have in Brazil. And vice-versa. USA and China are the ones with real influence. Portugal inside Europe have influence, but the decision making is in Brussels...

geoshina wrote:

At the same time his decision to buy the former Varig M/E at GIG is seen as one of reason for the failure and increased debt of the state owned TAP. But this also give TAP a leverage to argue with the Brazilian government. That's it.

TAP's unions love that talk. They love spinning the story in order to deflect from the issues in Portugal. There has always been the option of closing the maintenance unit at GIG, but it hasn't been done.

I dont know how to compare Azul with JetBlue, but I Can do to TAP. Both charges you much more money than any other carrier does going to the same place. TP now charges EU200 on fuel fees. AD did the same but BR governament cut them out because its illegal under de Brazilian law, and to mantain the fee, AD always put their prices up high. Can't deny, both connect people to places that no other airline goes nonstop, like LIS-POA, LIS-CNF, CNF-IPN, etc. Convenient, but convenience gets pricey.

LH sold their stake in B6 a while ago.

airbazar wrote:

I don't see how United comes into this picture given their long standing JV with the Lufthansa group.
A TATL JV between TAP/Azul/United and potentially B6 would be a formidable threat to Lufthansa.

Doesn't LH still own a portion of B6 and don't they still codeshare on flights out of BOS and JFK? And with UA owning a portion of Azul... things get interesting. That said, it might never move beyond that... UA is getting closer to AV and O6 is now a *Alliance Affiliate ... oh and then there is CM. It is all very complicated and incestuous, the airline industry is.

I understand thgsr08's point of view. For routes with less or no competition the flights are incredibly expensive, regardless of the fuel surcharge. Recently there was an internet wave of protests against TAP because the domestic flights between FNC-LIS were more expensive than LIS-NYC. Literally was cheaper to buy a FNC-LIS-JFK ticket than a FNC-LIS.

However, when you look at the Azores, TAP's prices are actually very competitive, even when comparing to Ryanair.

airbazar wrote:

thgsr08 wrote:

I dont know how to compare Azul with JetBlue, but I Can do to TAP. Both charges you much more money than any other carrier does going to the same place. TP now charges EU200 on fuel fees. AD did the same but BR governament cut them out because its illegal under de Brazilian law, and to mantain the fee, AD always put their prices up high. Can't deny, both connect people to places that no other airline goes nonstop, like LIS-POA, LIS-CNF, CNF-IPN, etc. Convenient, but convenience gets pricey.

I doubt you will find a single airlines flying TATL (I'm not familiar with Asian and African carriers' pricing habits), that does not charge a huge "fuel surcharge". From BOS where I live, to Europe the standard seems to be $300. TP's practice isn't any different than any other carrier. What you will find is that most airlines have changed the name of this surcharge from the obvious "Fuel surcharge" to a more generic "Carrier imposed surcharge". And although I don't fly TP often because I live in the US, I have flown them on occasion on intra-Europe flights and I find their prices on par with even the LCC's.

I see your point and I agree with "surcharges" such as services, airport fees and stuff, but TP/AD charge you twice:
1. If you pay for a ticket, at least you're paying for fuel, which is the primary cost for a plane to go somewhere;
2. Then, they hava a special fee for a fuel, What did you pay for before? Only airport taxes and dinner/breakfest?

In my head, I undestand as "ticket price" the whole package including fuel, food, services during the flight and then, other fees that is not an airline matter: airport fees, governament taxes (if there's such a thing) and blablabla.

Talking about prices, We've got in Brazil 4 airlines currently flying to MIA from GRU: JJ, AA, O6 and AD (this one flies to FLL from VCP - meaning it's harder to get to MIA).
Anytime, AD is by far, more expensive than other airlines, even providing similar service, in older planes. How does that make sense to you?

TP is even worse. If you get Victoria Points to trade for a return ticket, for eg., CNF-LIS, you spend 80k points and then another EU300 on fuel fee + airport fees. If you choose JJ, you spend 80k CNF-GRU-MAD/FRA/CDG/LHR/BCN/MXP and soon LIS/FCO/TLV, plus maximum BRL230 including all fees.

EUR 300 = BRL1155
BRL230 = EUR56

Do you care waiting 1h30 for almost BRL1000 in GRU? I don't. Save it and pay for hotel, food, drinks hehehe.