Etihad to retire the 77L

asuflyer · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:25 am

EY will phase out the 5 77L's currently in their fleet after the end of AUH-DFW in March.

The 77L has been removed from schedules beyond March.

AUH-LAX will be operated by exclusively by the 77W from January 15th.

77west · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:34 am

From memory, some of them originally came from Air India so may not be in the best condition

FoxtrotSierra · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:48 am

This is yet another sign of one of two things:

1. EY is in deep shit
2. EY is finally making sensible decisions

AsiaTravel · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:55 am

FoxtrotSierra wrote:
This is yet another sign of one of two things:

1. EY is in deep shit
2. EY is finally making sensible decisions

EY is in deep shit hence they finally make sensible decisions.

That would be my take.

sibibom · Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:00 am

Perhaps Air India can take it back, they surely can use with it now, since routes to the US are finally working. But then Oil is rising again, these birds are guzzlers.

77west · Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:59 am

sibibom wrote:
Perhaps Air India can take it back, they surely can use with it now, since routes to the US are finally working. But then Oil is rising again, these birds are guzzlers.

If AI take them back, they will probably just part them out like they did last time. Could these be the first of the "NG" 777's scrapped? (200LR/300ER family)

Slash787 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:25 am

Is Iran Air allowed to buy them?

ist2014 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:18 am

Does it work for TK
They can use iy for SYD flights

ZK-NBT · Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:54 am

77west wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Perhaps Air India can take it back, they surely can use with it now, since routes to the US are finally working. But then Oil is rising again, these birds are guzzlers.

If AI take them back, they will probably just part them out like they did last time. Could these be the first of the "NG" 777's scrapped? (200LR/300ER family)

What did AI part out last time?

Narfish641 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:03 am

77west wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Perhaps Air India can take it back, they surely can use with it now, since routes to the US are finally working. But then Oil is rising again, these birds are guzzlers.

If AI take them back, they will probably just part them out like they did last time. Could these be the first of the "NG" 777's scrapped? (200LR/300ER family)

JA actually retired 3 of their 773 a year ago I believe. Emirates has also retired a few of their 300s as well a while back. Those are the only two airlines I can think of.

VSMUT · Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:35 am

Narfish641 wrote:
77west wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Perhaps Air India can take it back, they surely can use with it now, since routes to the US are finally working. But then Oil is rising again, these birds are guzzlers.

If AI take them back, they will probably just part them out like they did last time. Could these be the first of the "NG" 777's scrapped? (200LR/300ER family)

JA actually retired 3 of their 773 a year ago I believe. Emirates has also retired a few of their 300s as well a while back. Those are the only two airlines I can think of.

Those were the early non-ER versions though. Emirates has retired a single 777-300ER, but it was sold to another operator.

dubaiamman243 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:38 am

EY B77Ls will be in active service for a limited time.

MileHFL400 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:57 am

Any potential takers?

MoKa777 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:04 am

I wonder where this leaves their order for 778.

EY made terrible decisions but I always feel that, among the ME3, they are the least likely to allow pride, face and ego stop them from admitting their plans did not work and attempting to correct things. Some of you might disagree but that is how I see it.

emiratesdriver · Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:15 am

MoKa777 wrote:
I wonder where this leaves their order for 778.

EY made terrible decisions but I always feel that, among the ME3, they are the least likely to allow pride, face and ego stop them from admitting their plans did not work and attempting to correct things. Some of you might disagree but that is how I see it.

Then regrettably, you dont know enough about how EY works, the strong "wasta" culture has followed on from the many at EY who were responsible for Gulf Air and its slide into insignificance.

frigatebird · Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:29 am

Wow, that's quick. They have been in service with EY for just 3,5 years.

MileHFL400 wrote:
Any potential takers?

Some have suggested AI could use them for US routes, where the 77W has too many restrictions and the 788 is too small.

MoKa777 wrote:
I wonder where this leaves their order for 778.

Indeed. And not just that order, IMO EY has overordered massively, they have too many 787 (54), A350 (62) and 777X (35) on order as it is. Maybe they thought they could form their own alliance and ordered accordingly, I don't know. Deferrals/cancellations must be coming I believe.

Arion640 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:44 am

FoxtrotSierra wrote:
This is yet another sign of one of two things:

1. EY is in deep shit
2. EY is finally making sensible decisions

EY will never be EK but as long as they control what they are doing I think they can chip away at it.

I think EY has too many fleet types so this should help solve this issue.

mjoelnir · Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:15 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Narfish641 wrote:
77west wrote:

If AI take them back, they will probably just part them out like they did last time. Could these be the first of the "NG" 777's scrapped? (200LR/300ER family)

JA actually retired 3 of their 773 a year ago I believe. Emirates has also retired a few of their 300s as well a while back. Those are the only two airlines I can think of.

Those were the early non-ER versions though. Emirates has retired a single 777-300ER, but it was sold to another operator.

That was sold to VIM. The bird is stored and with regards to VIM troubles not out of danger to be scrapped.

mjoelnir · Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:18 pm

I think that the EY 777-200LR will get retired and scrapped. AI did not have a real use for them. A 777-200ER is expensive to use and for everything but extreme range there are the 787 and A350 doing it better and less expensive.

FlyRow · Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:20 pm

My first thought was Delta.. seems like the second hand bargain they would lay their hands on.

na · Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:08 pm

AI offloaded their 77Ls quickly, calling them "gas guzzlers". Like the now vanished A345 they are niche aircraft and most airlines can do without them.

dtw2hyd · Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:51 pm

frigatebird wrote:
Some have suggested AI could use them for US routes, where the 77W has too many restrictions and the 788 is too small..

That is just a blogger myth without even knowing the config. AI can block 100 seats off a 77W and carry the same number of passengers as their 77L.

AI 77L vs 77W vs 788

Y - 195-303-238
J - 35 angle flat - 35 flat - 18 flat
F - 8 flat - 4 flat - 0

na wrote:
AI offloaded their 77Ls quickly, calling them "gas guzzlers". Like the now vanished A345 they are niche aircraft and most airlines can do without them.

I wouldn't say quickly. Contrary to what has been said on a.net, Air Canada offered way higher for those 77Ls, but AI's assessors estimated even higher value, forcing AI to ignore AC's offer. In hindsight, it was a very bad move considering AI burnt $60M/year ($12x5) on grounded aircraft for few more years and sold for $65M/each including the heavy check.

If this was a private airline, CEO could have just ignored assessors estimate and sold to AC.

fanoftristars · Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:59 pm

I would hope Delta could pick them up. I'm curious - considering the price that Delta might be able to get these for, what would economics look like if they were flying them across the pacific or atlantic? I know that after a given amount of miles, thought it was around 3000, the 777LR beats the 777ER in economics. And the 777LR can do any of Delta's missions with a full load pretty much without restrictions.

voxkel · Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:29 pm

It would be great if AI bought back five of the EY 77L (A6-LRA through A6-LRE) which were formerly AI aircraft. AI could then give the original names VT-ALA through VT-ALE.

AI sold the 77Ls in a time where there was not much need for 8 of then. Back then (2013), IIRC only the DEL-ORD flight was 77L, and that was soon changed to 77W as well.

AI should buy back the 77Ls and adopt a denser configuration (no F, good all-aisle J, and 3-4-3 Y). Then they would have all 8 of their 77Ls. 2 could be used for SFO, 2 for ORD and 1 for IAD. (From what I understand, ORD/IAD flights need to block several seats to make the trip nonstop on 77W.)

Then, they could start 3/wk LAX and 3/wk IAH, both on 77Ls, and have 1 spare remaining. Currently AI can only start 1 new route (LAX/SEA/IAH) due to the availability of only 1 free 77L.

The JFK/EWR flights can remain 77W.

Spiderguy252 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:34 pm

AI have been static for a few months since the talk of the sell-off, so grandiose plans like the ^above^ may have to wait a wee bit longer.

amdiesen · Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:39 pm

Etihad might consider speaking with the other Atlanta based airline

United787 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:45 pm

Who else is still flying the 777-200LR?

DfwRevolution · Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:55 pm

na wrote:
AI offloaded their 77Ls quickly, calling them "gas guzzlers". Like the now vanished A345 they are niche aircraft and most airlines can do without them.

And since when has AI been an authority on fleet planning?

The 772LR burns less fuel than a 772ER on medium-range routes greater than about 4,000 nm. That covers a huge number of TATL city pairs to say nothing of ULH. It's vastly more flexible than the A345.

voxkel · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:03 pm

United787 wrote:
Who else is still flying the 777-200LR?

AC is one I can think of, along with EK/QR.

Interestingly the only ULH route EK use 77L on is DXB-FLL. All other ULH are on 77W or A380.

VictorKilo · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:12 pm

I seem to remember discussion back when AI were trying to place these aircraft the first time that there may have been some maintenance paperwork issues with these aircraft.

Were those issues resolved when they were placed in service with EY? Are there remaining paperwork issues with these aircraft that may limit where they are placed going forward?

jbs2886 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Is it confirmed these will be retired or just speculation from the airlineroute post?

dtw2hyd · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:28 pm

VictorKilo wrote:
I seem to remember discussion back when AI were trying to place these aircraft the first time that there may have been some maintenance paperwork issues with these aircraft.

Were those issues resolved when they were placed in service with EY? Are there remaining paperwork issues with these aircraft that may limit where they are placed going forward?

That is one guy with CTSB connections, claiming on a.net that AC never gave an offer. Recent audit reports actually prove that was a false theory. AC offer was sooner and higher. AI would have saved $180M in sunk cost and $100M more in the sale.

Also, Indian bloggers only fly planes with every component serial number matches the initial delivery bill-of-material. AI-EY sale included a heavy check.

JAAlbert · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:34 pm

frigatebird wrote:
Wow, that's quick. They have been in service with EY for just 3,5 years.

Operating an aircraft for only 3.5 years seems like a tremendous waste of money. How much did EY pay for the 77Ls? (I did a google search, but didn't get a figure)

dtw2hyd · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:42 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
Wow, that's quick. They have been in service with EY for just 3,5 years.

Operating an aircraft for only 3.5 years seems like a tremendous waste of money. How much did EY pay for the 77Ls? (I did a google search, but didn't get a figure)

$65 Million including heavy check and interior redone. EY probably paid extra for a paint job in Amsterdam.

N415XJ · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:49 pm

voxkel wrote:
United787 wrote:
Who else is still flying the 777-200LR?

AC is one I can think of, along with EK/QR.

DL operates 8, PIA operates 2, Turkmenistan operates 3, and Iraqi Airways operates 1.

yashk · Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:53 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
na wrote:
AI offloaded their 77Ls quickly, calling them "gas guzzlers". Like the now vanished A345 they are niche aircraft and most airlines can do without them.

And since when has AI been an authority on fleet planning?

The 772LR burns less fuel than a 772ER on medium-range routes greater than about 4,000 nm. That covers a huge number of TATL city pairs to say nothing of ULH. It's vastly more flexible than the A345.

I think it has a lot to do with AI's config of only 235 seats. Compare that to Emirates which is re configuring these planes to seat 300+

jbs2886 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:07 pm

N415XJ wrote:
voxkel wrote:
United787 wrote:
Who else is still flying the 777-200LR?

AC is one I can think of, along with EK/QR.

DL operates 8, PIA operates 2, Turkmenistan operates 3, and Iraqi Airways operates 1.

Ethiopian has 6; Etihad has 6; AI has 3.

IrishAyes · Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:23 pm

gotta admit, DL taking the 77Ls....the most vocal opponent of the ME3....that would be a very interesting twist of irony!

IranianMan123 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:35 pm

Slash787 wrote:
Is Iran Air allowed to buy them?

Yes, but it does not need them. If everything goes to plan we will see IR receive their first 77W in April. No need to receive the 77L

thgsr08 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:40 pm

The main question is: What's the reason to buy/lease this aircraft? Opportunity? - It must've been very cheap. For me, an airline to purchase any aircraft, it must do a lot of study and see the real demand otherwise it'll loose money an I'm seeing this happening - waste of $$$. A "brand new" aircraft with lots of circles still available, far from C check, going to be scrapped? It seems to be the same situation when AI bought them and then realized they didn't need, altought they're plenty good on their route to SFO.
Anyway, it'll be good if these 77L find another operator.

airzona11 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:40 pm

DL might be in market. They do have a lot of capacity coming online around that same size tho. They will probably spend some time parked.

catiii · Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:02 pm

Are any governments in the market for VIP transports? There may be a few sales there...

OA940 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:07 pm

Well I would hope for a new operator, but I doubt it with such a small number of planes. I really doubt that they will be scrapped/not sold to another airline

whywhyzee · Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:10 pm

I think AC will likely take a good hard look. As it stands next summer, they don’t have any spare widebodies whatsoever, I’m not even sure they have enough for the schedule as it is. It’s also well known that they are looking for used widebodies to bridge the gap between now and the eventual next 787 order.

Do we know for sure EY is going to sell them though?

res77W · Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:24 pm

N415XJ wrote:
voxkel wrote:
United787 wrote:
Who else is still flying the 777-200LR?

AC is one I can think of, along with EK/QR.

DL operates 8, PIA operates 2, Turkmenistan operates 3, and Iraqi Airways operates 1.

DL operates 10.

yashk wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
na wrote:
AI offloaded their 77Ls quickly, calling them "gas guzzlers". Like the now vanished A345 they are niche aircraft and most airlines can do without them.

And since when has AI been an authority on fleet planning?

The 772LR burns less fuel than a 772ER on medium-range routes greater than about 4,000 nm. That covers a huge number of TATL city pairs to say nothing of ULH. It's vastly more flexible than the A345.

I think it has a lot to do with AI's config of only 235 seats. Compare that to Emirates which is re configuring these planes to seat 300+

When was this announced?

-Rowen

Btblue · Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:29 pm

Maybe a likely candidate for cargo conversion, perhaps?

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... io-428408/

Polot · Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:31 pm

res77W wrote:
When was this announced?

Just this week. They are removing F from the planes and making them 2 class.

dubaiamman243 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:29 pm

Etihad B77L adjusted schedule:

Abu Dhabi – Dallas/Ft. Worth 1 daily until 24MAR18
Abu Dhabi – Los Angeles 1 daily until 14JAN18
Abu Dhabi – Munich 1 flight on 19JAN18
Abu Dhabi – Singapore 1 flight on 05DEC17

Source: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2018/

aemoreira1981 · Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:43 pm

sibibom wrote:
Perhaps Air India can take it back, they surely can use with it now, since routes to the US are finally working. But then Oil is rising again, these birds are guzzlers.

These are still twin-jets, and nothing else has the range to reach the USA other than JFK or IAD nonstop without major restrictions. Air India should be trying to buy back these frames...and go 3-4-3 in Y using the Dreamliner specs (33" pitch/17" width) and a true W cabin as well. AI's expansion to North America is limited by its stock.

Another airline that could use them is United, as it wouldn't force UA to perhaps change routes from EWR to DEL, BOM, or HKG to a B77W or a B789 (as when the long-haul B772ERs go 3-4-3, they could be range-restricted for those destinations. They could go 3-4-3 on a B77L and still make those destinations with ease, with a subfleet restricted to EWR for these routes only...unless 7-8 Dreamliners were moved to EWR.

worldranger · Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:47 pm

[threeid][/threeid]

Polot wrote:
res77W wrote:
When was this announced?

Just this week. They are removing F from the planes and making them 2 class.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ea-443285/

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