LHRFlyer
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BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:54 pm

FlightGlobal is reporting that BA is in talks to acquire four SQ A380s when they are returned to the lessor:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -a-443294/

German asset manager Dr Peters is in talks with British Airways and other prospects on the potential sale of A380s as it prepares to receive four of the jets back from lessee Singapore Airlines
 
jfk777
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:14 pm

Well its seems Willie Walsh finally found his used A380's for the "right price". But where oh where will BA fly these birds ? JFK, at some BA is going to have to send it to its largest destination, Terminal 7 can be modified. Miami year round ? Dulles again? Tokyo HND if the let them in? India ? Will IB see any ? This can only be good and this a a good "problem" to have. Hoping the BA A380 fleet reaches 20 airplanes.
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:19 pm

I think it will be primarily for US gateways. It can open up slots for more long-haul services.

[Apologies, I note this has already been mentioned in another thread, but I couldn't delete it.]
 
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maortega15
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:26 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Well its seems Willie Walsh finally found his used A380's for the "right price". But where oh where will BA fly these birds ? JFK, at some BA is going to have to send it to its largest destination, Terminal 7 can be modified. Miami year round ? Dulles again? Tokyo HND if the let them in? India ? Will IB see any ? This can only be good and this a a good "problem" to have. Hoping the BA A380 fleet reaches 20 airplanes.

I doubt you'll see them at JFK. The alleyways are too tight that even 777's can't fit well.

You'll see a lot of 777's, 78X's and possibly some A350's.
 
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kann123air
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:37 pm

How about DFW? The route has been 744/77W exclusive over the past few years, and think a OW hub-hub flight like it could surely fill up enough to warrant a 380.
Going for great
 
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DWC
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:37 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
FlightGlobal is reporting that BA is in talks to acquire four SQ A380s when they are returned to the lessor:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -a-443294/
German asset manager Dr Peters is in talks with British Airways and other prospects on the potential sale of A380s as it prepares to receive four of the jets back from lessee Singapore Airlines

SQ frames always sell well, because of maintenance excellence. CAPA says SQ own & are keeping the remaining 19 frames, so the next 4 frames to return to lessor are the only ones BA would be geting from SQ.
https://centreforaviation.com/insights/analysis/singapore-airlines-a380-seat-density-increase-new-cabin-products-to-improve-fleet-profitability-381490
This also means that SQ's first five frames are finding a customer ( Hifly has not yet unveiled where they are placing theirs )
That means 100% of A380s are finding a new home in the second-hand market - for now.

So questions :
1. Are BA looking for more than 4 frames elsewhere ?
2. If so, why didn't BA get MH's ? Was MH asking for a price to high ?
3. How does that affect EK's resale value ? To say nothing of their number ?
4. And lastly, how does that influence Airbus A380 programme ?
Last edited by DWC on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Kadish
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:38 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Well its seems Willie Walsh finally found his used A380's for the "right price". But where oh where will BA fly these birds ? JFK, at some BA is going to have to send it to its largest destination, Terminal 7 can be modified. Miami year round ? Dulles again? Tokyo HND if the let them in? India ? Will IB see any ? This can only be good and this a a good "problem" to have. Hoping the BA A380 fleet reaches 20 airplanes.



I think it could work in some routes for Ib such MEX, MIA or even EZE where they go daily.
 
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Channex757
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:44 pm

BA have got the 78X coming in for JFK. It's the perfect transatlantic aircraft for them, and can be configured to replace their Hi-J 744s.

The incoming A380 aircraft will help widen the operation for BA. They are running the existing fleet near capacity so some cheap add-ons with the right engines (and no freaky plumbing for showers etc) will help them expand the fleet's coverage.

Re question asked over MH...apparently the MH price and all-round deal wasn't good enough for BA. They wanted too much and it would need to be financed by BA rather than a deal with a lessor.
 
Jayafe
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:45 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Will IB see any ?


IB has no F. Getting a 3 classes distribution (J, Y+, Y) semi dense and flying EZE/MEX/GRU (if they get where to park them) would smash DY in the face.
Last edited by Jayafe on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:47 pm

Bluebird191 wrote:
Has BA outbid or put forward a better deal than HiFly? Isn’t HiFly meant to be taking 2x A380’s? And talk of those being former SQ birds, has something not come of this?


HiFly is looking for birds, but never confirmed which ones they are taking, likely the MH ones...
 
Bluebird191
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:49 pm

Has BA outbid or put forward a better deal than HiFly? Isn’t HiFly meant to be taking 2x A380’s? And talk of those being former SQ birds, has something not come of this?
 
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Stitch
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:58 pm

Bluebird191 wrote:
Has BA outbid or put forward a better deal than HiFly? Isn’t HiFly meant to be taking 2x A380’s? And talk of those being former SQ birds, has something not come of this?


Per Dr. Peters, the owners of the SQ lease returns, Hi-Fly has not approached them.
 
evanb
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:00 pm

MH's are practically new in terms of cycles and hours. SQ's are decently used so the price would be much lower.

In terms of destinations, BA would love JNB to be double daily A380 year-round and likely CPT double daily for high-season (northern hemisphere winter) once CPT is A380 ready sometime around 2020/21.
 
777PHX
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:15 pm

This is going to be the final nail in the coffin for new build A380s. Why should an airline buy new airframes when they can purchase gently used examples with another 15+ years of life for a relative song? Both SQ and EK are going to be a steady supply of them for the forseeable future.

BA must be getting a steal on these. Aren’t some of SQ’s early airframes built to a non-standardized production spec that make them undesirable? Something about them having to be rewired by hand or something?
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:22 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Well its seems Willie Walsh finally found his used A380's for the "right price". But where oh where will BA fly these birds ? JFK, at some BA is going to have to send it to its largest destination, Terminal 7 can be modified. Miami year round ? Dulles again? Tokyo HND if the let them in? India ? Will IB see any ? This can only be good and this a a good "problem" to have. Hoping the BA A380 fleet reaches 20 airplanes.


Anyone think it's entirely possible that BA could look into a high Y config used A380s for LGW ops to compete with DY? just a thought...
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:26 pm

777PHX wrote:
This is going to be the final nail in the coffin for new build A380s. Why should an airline buy new airframes when they can purchase gently used examples with another 15+ years of life for a relative song? Both SQ and EK are going to be a steady supply of them for the forseeable future.

By that argument no 777X would sell either, there are some six times as many 777s flying around & many to come off lease soon.
Last edited by DWC on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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TedToToe
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:28 pm

Aren't the early SQ birds overweight and one reason why the leases were not extended? How different would the performance be when compared with BA's current frames?
 
777PHX
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:31 pm

DWC wrote:
777PHX wrote:
This is going to be the final nail in the coffin for new build A380s. Why should an airline buy new airframes when they can purchase gently used examples with another 15+ years of life for a relative song? Both SQ and EK are going to be a steady supply of them for the forseeable future.

By that argument no 777X would not sell either, there are some six times as many 777s flying around & many to come off lease soon.


Uhhh......what?

The 77X is an improved generation of aircraft vs the "classics". The A380 they're building today isn't much different than the ones that were being built a decade ago and are starting to be retired. You're not making a valid comparison.
 
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:35 pm

TedToToe wrote:
Aren't the early SQ birds overweight and one reason why the leases were not extended? How different would the performance be when compared with BA's current frames?


That's my understanding. IIRC, there were some changes that needed to be made to some of the first built airframes that were done sort of ad-hoc and added to the weight of the aircraft vs the production line standard. The weight difference was largely negligable, but it also creates difficulties during maintenance due to the different specs and schematics the "bastard" aircraft have.
 
RJNUT
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:57 pm

oh why not just send one to Austin.they have upgraded twice already
 
fcogafa
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:07 am

As always on this forum, things are getting carried away. The actual text of the article.....

"We are in discussion with a number of potential buyers, including British Airways and a number of other European flag carriers as well as Asian low-cost airlines," Anselm Gehling, Dr Peters' chief executive, tells FlightGlobal.

"A number of freight companies are also showing interest for freighter conversion, including one of the world's largest cargo shippers. Hi Fly is also welcome to have discussions with us after they announced they wanted A380s earlier this year, which at the time some thought would be our aircraft," he adds.

BA declined to comment.
 
skipness1E
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:15 am

Sloooooooow down. This basically says the leasor has reached out to open a dislogue with BA, nothing more. Not convinced early build one off types fit the BA model these days. Too much past experience.
 
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:23 am

777PHX wrote:
This is going to be the final nail in the coffin for new build A380s. Why should an airline buy new airframes when they can purchase gently used examples with another 15+ years of life for a relative song? Both SQ and EK are going to be a steady supply of them for the forseeable future.


After SQ withdraws the first 5 from service, with no more on order or expected to be ordered, I don't think we'll see anymore retirements from them for at least 10 years. As for EK I think we'll see just their first few being retired in 2020 and the rest being kept for longer similar to their 77W's and 200ER's.
 
Planesmart
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:45 am

SQ could still retain up to 4 (it appears the first is a true oddity). There is power play in action here. The leasor is still negotiating with SQ to purchase, or sign new, much lower cost leases on the remaining aircraft.

As for BA, they want Airbus to give them an EK deal. After the A/EK spat at Dubai, seen to be having deep and meaningful discussions for used, leased aircraft, is a rather more subtle way of extracting a better deal than EK's approach.

MH aircraft will struggle to find a home. Too expensive. Were depreciated, then re-valued, so a sale is likely to trigger a significant write-off.
Last edited by Planesmart on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:47 am

Stitch wrote:
Bluebird191 wrote:
Has BA outbid or put forward a better deal than HiFly? Isn’t HiFly meant to be taking 2x A380’s? And talk of those being former SQ birds, has something not come of this?


Per Dr. Peters, the owners of the SQ lease returns, Hi-Fly has not approached them.

Thank you for being helpful, and if anyone wonders where they could find that information, they can open the link in the thread starter post.

777PHX wrote:
This is going to be the final nail in the coffin for new build A380s. Why should an airline buy new airframes when they can purchase gently used examples with another 15+ years of life for a relative song? Both SQ and EK are going to be a steady supply of them for the forseeable future.

BA must be getting a steal on these. Aren’t some of SQ’s early airframes built to a non-standardized production spec that make them undesirable? Something about them having to be rewired by hand or something?

SQ isn't going to be much of a source. The first five are indeed coming off lease but as you note they aren't very desirable. The next 19 are being refreshed so they will be retained.

EK's first doesn't come off lease till 2020 so we have a few more years to see how it will do.

However EK is clearly concerned about the resale value of the A380. Low resale value means higher lease payments for EK on the ~42 more A380s it is already on the hook for before we even get to any new order.

fcogafa wrote:
As always on this forum, things are getting carried away. The actual text of the article.....

"We are in discussion with a number of potential buyers, including British Airways and a number of other European flag carriers as well as Asian low-cost airlines," Anselm Gehling, Dr Peters' chief executive, tells FlightGlobal.

"A number of freight companies are also showing interest for freighter conversion, including one of the world's largest cargo shippers. Hi Fly is also welcome to have discussions with us after they announced they wanted A380s earlier this year, which at the time some thought would be our aircraft," he adds.

BA declined to comment.

:checkmark:

People are way ahead of events in this thread.
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ZK-NBT
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:53 am

7BOEING7 wrote:
777PHX wrote:
This is going to be the final nail in the coffin for new build A380s. Why should an airline buy new airframes when they can purchase gently used examples with another 15+ years of life for a relative song? Both SQ and EK are going to be a steady supply of them for the forseeable future.


After SQ withdraws the first 5 from service, with no more on order or expected to be ordered, I don't think we'll see anymore retirements from them for at least 10 years. As for EK I think we'll see just their first few being retired in 2020 and the rest being kept for longer similar to their 77W's and 200ER's.


SQ are replacing the first 5 with 5 new ones. I don’t no that that will keep them quite that long another 6-7 years maybe with some of the newer ones in the fleet already closer to 10. Most of EK’’s are likely 12 year leases so from 2022/23 there will be a fair few leaving. A lot of EK’s 77W’s will be 12 year leases as well, the first few have left with plenty more to follow and still new 77W’s arriving then the 77X.
 
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:56 am

Planesmart wrote:
SQ could still retain up to 4 (it appears the first is a true oddity). There is power play in action here. The leasor is still negotiating with SQ to purchase, or sign new, much lower cost leases on the remaining aircraft.

As for BA, they want Airbus to give them an EK deal. After the A/EK spat at Dubai, seen to be having deep and meaningful discussions for used, leased aircraft, is a rather more subtle way of extracting a better deal than EK's approach.

MH aircraft will struggle to find a home. Too expensive. Were depreciated, then re-valued, so a sale is likely to trigger a significant write-off.


3 of SQ’s have finished with SQ with 2 more to follow. They have said they won’t go behind 19 frames at this stage.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:01 am

Crazy theory. 2 frames for IB to rotate to MEX and 2 to go to IB in Northern Winter for EZE and then to EI for JFK in Northern Summer.

All operated on a BA AOC to use their flight crews with cross trained cabin crews.
 
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:52 am

bluefltspecial wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Well its seems Willie Walsh finally found his used A380's for the "right price". But where oh where will BA fly these birds ? JFK, at some BA is going to have to send it to its largest destination, Terminal 7 can be modified. Miami year round ? Dulles again? Tokyo HND if the let them in? India ? Will IB see any ? This can only be good and this a a good "problem" to have. Hoping the BA A380 fleet reaches 20 airplanes.


Anyone think it's entirely possible that BA could look into a high Y config used A380s for LGW ops to compete with DY? just a thought...


Why would an airline want a 650 passenger A380 for flights to Orlando or Barbados from Gatwick when a 777 could do it cheaply. Trying to fill that many seats daily has to be a pain. Better to sell 450 in four classes to the typical destinations those A380 fly to. IF an nearly all economy A380 was such a great proposition a Japanese airline would have done for Hawaii already. The A380 is a premium airplane for premium routes.
 
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:17 am

DWC wrote:
SQ frames always sell well, because of maintenance excellence. CAPA says SQ own & are keeping the remaining 19 frames, so the next 4 frames to return to lessor are the only ones BA would be geting from SQ.


What I know is that retiring frames from SQ (as well as EK) are not maintaining in excellence status.
Yes, they do a good job in doing maintenance according to the manufacturers' requirements,
but full of defects that need to be solved.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:02 am

ZK-NBT wrote:

SQ are replacing the first 5 with 5 new ones. I don’t no that that will keep them quite that long another 6-7 years maybe with some of the newer ones in the fleet already closer to 10. Most of EK’’s are likely 12 year leases so from 2022/23 there will be a fair few leaving. A lot of EK’s 77W’s will be 12 year leases as well, the first few have left with plenty more to follow and still new 77W’s arriving then the 77X.



A 12 year lease doesn't necessarily mean you are only keeping the airplane for 12 years.

Rumor is SQ will be keeping the rest of their A380 fleet for 20 years, so the next one available from them is 10 years out.

EK's 200/200ER's were around for just under 20 years, their 300 (non-ER's) were retired at about 17 years (6 are still in service after about 15 years) and 1 77W was retired after 12 years -- their next 30 77W's have been around for an average of 11 years each, 8 have more than 12 years (indicating the leases have been extended) and none are reported to be headed into retirement, indicating more lease extensions are probably coming. So it could be 2023 before we see any of them available. I don't see many EK A380's other than early builds coming available any time soon and I doubt any reputable airline would want a one off early build.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:11 am

jfk777 wrote:
Well its seems Willie Walsh finally found his used A380's for the "right price". But where oh where will BA fly these birds ? JFK, at some BA is going to have to send it to its largest destination, Terminal 7 can be modified. Miami year round ? Dulles again? Tokyo HND if the let them in? India ? Will IB see any ? This can only be good and this a a good "problem" to have. Hoping the BA A380 fleet reaches 20 airplanes.


I would say any major US city OTHER than JFK/EWR. JFK I suspect will see the 787-10 and 787-9 as the B772 leaves the fleet, with the non-ERs and G-RAES likely going within the next 5 years. Remember that at JFK, BA's terminal is the opposite side of the airport where A380s normally land, although they wouldn't have the restrictions around Terminal 8 (where A380s are restricted to Taxiway A). Also, in terms of EI, unless they plan to leave the B6 partnership, B6 can't handle anything bigger than an A330 or B787 at T5I.

As for Hi Fly, I suspect that they're getting ex-MH A380s and they'll be used primarily in South Asia or maybe even for the Australian Air Force (freeing up an A340).
 
tjh8402
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:26 am

jfk777 wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Well its seems Willie Walsh finally found his used A380's for the "right price". But where oh where will BA fly these birds ? JFK, at some BA is going to have to send it to its largest destination, Terminal 7 can be modified. Miami year round ? Dulles again? Tokyo HND if the let them in? India ? Will IB see any ? This can only be good and this a a good "problem" to have. Hoping the BA A380 fleet reaches 20 airplanes.


Anyone think it's entirely possible that BA could look into a high Y config used A380s for LGW ops to compete with DY? just a thought...


Why would an airline want a 650 passenger A380 for flights to Orlando or Barbados from Gatwick when a 777 could do it cheaply. Trying to fill that many seats daily has to be a pain. Better to sell 450 in four classes to the typical destinations those A380 fly to. IF an nearly all economy A380 was such a great proposition a Japanese airline would have done for Hawaii already. The A380 is a premium airplane for premium routes.


At least in the case of Orlando, they are doing it with 2 77Es which have about half as many people as you would put on an A380. Considering that MCO isn't it really a frequency driven route, I would think it's cheaper to fly a single A380 than 2 77Es.
 
ikramerica
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:23 am

This is a fluff article that reads as PR for the lease company. "We are talking to everyone under the sun, including "name drop" and "someone big who we can't mention by name."
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:24 am

ikramerica wrote:
This is a fluff article that reads as PR for the lease company. "We are talking to everyone under the sun, including "name drop" and "someone big who we can't mention by name."


Sounds like JL.
 
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:34 am

7BOEING7 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

SQ are replacing the first 5 with 5 new ones. I don’t no that that will keep them quite that long another 6-7 years maybe with some of the newer ones in the fleet already closer to 10. Most of EK’’s are likely 12 year leases so from 2022/23 there will be a fair few leaving. A lot of EK’s 77W’s will be 12 year leases as well, the first few have left with plenty more to follow and still new 77W’s arriving then the 77X.



A 12 year lease doesn't necessarily mean you are only keeping the airplane for 12 years.

Rumor is SQ will be keeping the rest of their A380 fleet for 20 years, so the next one available from them is 10 years out.

EK's 200/200ER's were around for just under 20 years, their 300 (non-ER's) were retired at about 17 years (6 are still in service after about 15 years) and 1 77W was retired after 12 years -- their next 30 77W's have been around for an average of 11 years each, 8 have more than 12 years (indicating the leases have been extended) and none are reported to be headed into retirement, indicating more lease extensions are probably coming. So it could be 2023 before we see any of them available. I don't see many EK A380's other than early builds coming available any time soon and I doubt any reputable airline would want a one off early build.


Of course the leases could be extended, however EK are running out of room at DXB, were those older 777’s owned or leased? They weren’t worth much on the used market if they were owned the 772’s atleast, CX are or were taking 5 773’s.

The first 77W for EK arrived in 2005, they are only just passing 12 years on the first few of which a small number have left.

SQ don’t keep aircraft that long, not to say they won’t keep a few for that long, most of their A380’s are leases aren’t they and they will get favourable rates to keep them. Their fleet will be interesting going forward with a lot in order, they have a place for A380’s long term on some routes but weather they get more down the track will be interesting to see.

As to BA, I really don’t have a clue but these are early build that are heavier and less efficient than new builds. BA could IMO absolutely use a few more A380’s. They reportedly made an offer to MH who wanted to much for them at the time.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:42 am

DWC wrote:
This also means that SQ's first five frames are finding a customer [...]
That means 100% of A380s are finding a new home in the second-hand market - for now.

With all due respect - I think it’s way too early to come to these two conclusions.

Someone who is trying to sell something is talking to someone who might be interested. That’s all and it’s not new. „Talks“ between Dr. Peters and BA have been reported in another article some weeks ago, shortly after Dr. Peters annual investors day. I think I even started a thread about it because it included the idea of selling the ex-SQ- birds to an US-American company for conversion into freighters, something I hadn’t heard before.
 
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:31 am

If it happen, what is the registration going to be?
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anfromme
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:51 am

DWC wrote:
This also means that SQ's first five frames are finding a customer ( Hifly has not yet unveiled where they are placing theirs )
That means 100% of A380s are finding a new home in the second-hand market - for now.

Even assuming the BA deal is coming to pass - which it may very well, considering BA has repeatedly expressed interest in more A380s, but not at new-build prices - I think you're jumping to conclusions here. Especially the early MSNs with their non-standard wiring are going to be tough sells, and BA might choose to go for later-builds instead.
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skipness1E
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:05 am

LupineChemist wrote:
Crazy theory. 2 frames for IB to rotate to MEX and 2 to go to IB in Northern Winter for EZE and then to EI for JFK in Northern Summer.

All operated on a BA AOC to use their flight crews with cross trained cabin crews.

Agreed, crazy idea.
 
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:07 am

tjh8402 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:

Anyone think it's entirely possible that BA could look into a high Y config used A380s for LGW ops to compete with DY? just a thought...


Why would an airline want a 650 passenger A380 for flights to Orlando or Barbados from Gatwick when a 777 could do it cheaply. Trying to fill that many seats daily has to be a pain. Better to sell 450 in four classes to the typical destinations those A380 fly to. IF an nearly all economy A380 was such a great proposition a Japanese airline would have done for Hawaii already. The A380 is a premium airplane for premium routes.


At least in the case of Orlando, they are doing it with 2 77Es which have about half as many people as you would put on an A380. Considering that MCO isn't it really a frequency driven route, I would think it's cheaper to fly a single A380 than 2 77Es.

LGW-MCO isn't twice daily year round, indeed it's barely twice daily in summer. What other route would you see as being fit for this all Y A380 operation?
 
Obzerva
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:15 am

as ghastly as some people would find it, would it work if the fleet were shared between BA/IB and painted in one world livery with a BA logo and tail on one side, and an IB one the other, flexible ops, would work for seasonal upgrades out of MAD/LHR/LGW, just a matter of finding a seating config that would work for the aircraft.

(feel free to swap out one of IB/BA for Aer Lingus, as by the time it happens EI will probably be in one world).
 
workhorse
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:26 am

Is non-standard wiring that much of a problem (for the airline)? What kind of additional costs does it imply?
 
Jayafe
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:33 am

Obzerva wrote:
as ghastly as some people would find it, would it work if the fleet were shared between BA/IB and painted in one world livery with a BA logo and tail on one side, and an IB one the other, flexible ops, would work for seasonal upgrades out of MAD/LHR/LGW, just a matter of finding a seating config that would work for the aircraft.

(feel free to swap out one of IB/BA for Aer Lingus, as by the time it happens EI will probably be in one world).


Aer Lingus is IAG but not not OneWorld (and they just insisted today is not happening soon), so forget about that livery or the usage for them.
 
shankly
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:53 am

Those of us old enough to remember will recall BA bring in odds and sods 742's in the 1980's, so this potential is very much in the character of BA. Most recent similar example is the G-GATx A320 fleet

Will give them much needed back up to the stretched 12 fleet
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readytotaxi
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:06 am

Imagine the nightmare of Orlando CBP, The Virgin Atlantic fights, the Latam, the Thompson all arrriving around the same hour and you add to that a 600 plus BA flight. :white:
Probably be quicker to clear at Tampa and drive back to MCO.
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JannEejit
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:07 am

hongkongflyer wrote:

What I know is that retiring frames from SQ (as well as EK) are not maintaining in excellence status.
Yes, they do a good job in doing maintenance according to the manufacturers' requirements,
but full of defects that need to be solved.


Maybe Dr Peters should be opening up a dialogue with Dr Peppers in that case... ;-)
 
WIederling
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:08 am

777PHX wrote:
The 77X is an improved generation of aircraft vs the "classics". The A380 they're building today isn't much different than the ones that were being built a decade ago and are starting to be retired. You're not making a valid comparison.


I would not underestimate Airbus nonimprovements just yet.
Less investment in "4 color glossies" and more in detail improvements.
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skipness1E
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:33 am

shankly wrote:
Those of us old enough to remember will recall BA bring in odds and sods 742's in the 1980's, so this potential is very much in the character of BA. Most recent similar example is the G-GATx A320 fleet

Will give them much needed back up to the stretched 12 fleet


They leased Aer Lingus' EI-BED as G-BDPZ. Aside from that they leased Combi capacity from MEA with G-BLVE/F which were replaced by new builds G-BDXN/O which leaves one more B747 in G-BMGS which spent much of it's time with British Airtours. They also needed TriStar 500s for a route swap which meant leasing G-BLUS/T from Air Lanka but that's it. Everything else was an inheritance from BCAL.
The LGW A320s were, to say the least, a mixed bag (!)

Is the A380 fleet really stretched? To me it looks that, like Air France, they tend to operate on some routes that can't support them outwith summer peaks. BOS and IAD are not natural A380 routes IMHO. The point about the A380 is that it needs to be consistently almost full to hit it's stride in terms of earning power, something that SIN,HKG and JNB seem to do better than some of the others IMHO. BA Engineering really used to spend a fortune bespoking One Elevens and Tridents in that special BA way, that's the reason BA moved to off the shelf new aircraft with fewer specialised features. ie.e RB211s on the B763 fleet killed any resale value. Whatever A380s they get in the second hand market will need a world of re-purposing and will need to come at an unbeatable price.

Given the majority of the A345/A346 fleet is parked up after their initial 10 year lease, surely the same will happen with the A380s. How many parked and unsellable aircraft will be on their books if Airbus do buy back the Emirates fleet as they are asking?
 
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DWC
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Re: BA reported to be in talks to acquire SQ A380s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:46 am

7BOEING7 wrote:
Rumor is SQ will be keeping the rest of their A380 fleet for 20 years, so the next one available from them is 10 years out.

It's not a rumour : "SIA will likely keep its owned A380s for more than 15 years due to the lack of resale options. SIA could end up operating the 14 aircraft that were initially delivered in 2008 to 2012 for approximately 20 years, enabling SIA to fully write down the fleet and investment in new product without needing to find a second-hand buyer"
https://centreforaviation.com/insights/analysis/singapore-airlines-a380-seat-density-increase-new-cabin-products-to-improve-fleet-profitability-381490


hongkongflyer wrote:
DWC wrote:
SQ frames always sell well, because of maintenance excellence. CAPA says SQ own & are keeping the remaining 19 frames, so the next 4 frames to return to lessor are the only ones BA would be geting from SQ.

What I know is that retiring frames from SQ (as well as EK) are not maintaining in excellence status.
Yes, they do a good job in doing maintenance according to the manufacturers' requirements,
but full of defects that need to be solved.

Probably, like any other aircraft off lease.
What I meant is that SQs frames are sought after & don't have problems finding a new home.


N14AZ wrote:
DWC wrote:
This also means that SQ's first five frames are finding a customer ( Hifly has not yet unveiled where they are placing theirs )
That means 100% of A380s are finding a new home in the second-hand market - for now.

With all due respect - I think it’s way too early to come to these two conclusions.

anfromme wrote:
I think you're jumping to conclusions here. Especially the early MSNs with their non-standard wiring are going to be tough sells, and BA might choose to go for later-builds instead

Agreed gentlemen. I trusted the OP & did not read the article until posted, my bad :cry2:

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