Please keep the thread on topic. This is about new (or speculated new) Airbus orders at the Dubai airshow, continuing on through November 16th.

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Was the other thread deleted in its entirety? The Boeing thread as well?

caoimhin wrote:

Was the other thread deleted in its entirety? The Boeing thread as well?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1378545 (It would be nice to have the links to the Part1s in the first post, in case)

I'll add the links to the other threads:
old airbus thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1378545

<i> Airbus today announced an order for 20 A321neos from Wataniya Airways</i>
https://leehamnews.com/2017/11/14/egypt ... more-25350

Shouldn't that be A320NEO's?

http://gulfbusiness.com/airbus-confirms ... a-airways/

These articles and another one or two I saw, state that it is an MOU for 25 A320neos:

http://m.atwonline.com/aircraft-orders- ... 5-a320neos

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... llion-deal

Airbus Nears Deal for 430 Jets With Indigo Partners.

The transaction, one of the biggest aircraft sales in history, is set to be announced Wednesday at the Dubai Air Show.

The upgraded single-aisle jet would go to airlines in Indigo’s investment portfolio: Frontier Airlines, Mexico’s Volaris, European carrier Wizz Air Holdings Plc and upstart JetSmart, which began operating this year in Chile, the people said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... o-partners

Impressive if signed tomorrow. Leary is going out with a bang.

downdata wrote:

Airbus Nears Deal for 430 Jets With Indigo Partners.

The transaction, one of the biggest aircraft sales in history, is set to be announced Wednesday at the Dubai Air Show.

The upgraded single-aisle jet would go to airlines in Indigo’s investment portfolio: Frontier Airlines, Mexico’s Volaris, European carrier Wizz Air Holdings Plc and upstart JetSmart, which began operating this year in Chile, the people said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... o-partners

Impressive if signed tomorrow. Leary is going out with a bang.

That would be an outstanding way to exit.

This is the first I've heard of the deal and the only link I could find is the one you supplied.
That said, if signed tomorrow, an order for 430 aircraft easily 'wins the airshow.'

Lightsaber

I hope this turns out. Nice that Enders and Bregier left town to let JL get the glory all to himself.

I also wonder if this is an announcement brought forward from the fifth quarter as something of a face saver for Airbus at the DAS. Sledgehammer meet walnut, if so.

downdata wrote:

Airbus Nears Deal for 430 Jets With Indigo Partners.

The transaction, one of the biggest aircraft sales in history, is set to be announced Wednesday at the Dubai Air Show.

The upgraded single-aisle jet would go to airlines in Indigo’s investment portfolio: Frontier Airlines, Mexico’s Volaris, European carrier Wizz Air Holdings Plc and upstart JetSmart, which began operating this year in Chile, the people said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... o-partners

Impressive if signed tomorrow. Leary is going out with a bang.

That seems like a hugely aggressive order. Don't these airlines already have something like 200 NEO's already on order?

The A320 series proves to be the golden cash cow that could, but the A380 is on its last legs. It's an interesting time. The strength of the A320 series will be more apparent in 20 years when we're still talking about its latest iteration with plastic wings and electric engines...

Add in a hundred or so DL orders before year's end, and Airbus will have done fine this year!

Man is Indigo aggressive with these orders, I'll be very interested in seeing what happens in the next decade regarding them.

ikolkyo wrote:

Man is Indigo aggressive with these orders, I'll be very interested in seeing what happens in the next decade regarding them.

Isn't this 'Indigo Partners' and not 'Indigo Airlines', the Bloomberg article seems to differentiate them, is Indigo Partners a separate company to the airline or is it the owner? I'm very confused!

MrHMSH wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

Man is Indigo aggressive with these orders, I'll be very interested in seeing what happens in the next decade regarding them.

Isn't this 'Indigo Partners' and not 'Indigo Airlines', the Bloomberg article seems to differentiate them, is Indigo Partners a separate company to the airline or is it the owner? I'm very confused!

Indigo Partners is a firm that has stakes or owns, Frontier, Wizz and more airlines., I know the aircraft will be allocated across those airlines but I'm still interested in seeing if all of them get delivered.

Indigo Partners, which is a U.S. firm, has nothing to do with India's IndiGo airlines. They are completely unrelated.

According to the Bloomberg article, the aircraft would go to airlines in Indigo’s investment portfolio: Frontier Airlines, Mexico’s Volaris, European carrier Wizz Air Holdings Plc and upstart JetSmart.

Indigo Partners is not related to the Indian budget carrier IndiGo.

An order for 430 A32X NEOs makes me suspect this is the bundling of old orders for PR purposes, just like the recent China-Boeing order announcement.

CHI87LG wrote:

The A320 series proves to be the golden cash cow that could, but the A380 is on its last legs. It's an interesting time. The strength of the A320 series will be more apparent in 20 years when we're still talking about its latest iteration with plastic wings and electric engines...

Plastic wings: sure.
Electric engines: hell no.

If we see an electric or hybrid-electric aircraft within the next 20 years it will be designed for electric engines from the ground-up. Bolting electric engines to an old aircraft will very likely result in a poorly optimized design.

Ok, you're right. Hybrids, then.

qf789 wrote:

Boeing Summary up to 31 October 2017

BOEING
Cancellations 85

qf789 wrote:

Airbus summary of orders up to 31 October

AIRBUS
Cancellations 55

Like Scorpio says:
Quote out of orders-2017-thread - cancellations seem to be indeed similar at Boeing and Airbus.

Airbus confirming that Indigo Partners has signed a MoU for 430 A320neos. 430 aircraft, wow.

https://twitter.com/Airbus/status/930694171324768256

Here's the breakdown of aircraft between airlines


-Frontier: 100 A320neo, 34 A321neo
-JetSMART: 56 A320neo, 14 A321neo
-Volaris: 46 A320neo, 34 A321neo
-Wizzair: 72 A320neo, 74 A321neo

https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/930696421791191040

Brixerl wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Boeing Summary up to 31 October 2017

BOEING
Cancellations 85

qf789 wrote:

Airbus summary of orders up to 31 October

AIRBUS
Cancellations 55

Like Scorpio says:
Quote out of orders-2017-thread - cancellations seem to be indeed similar at Boeing and Airbus.

However some of those are swaps. Eg 737NG to MAX Boeing counts as a cancellation and re order. This happens with the 320ceo to neo as well.

A330freak wrote:

Here's the breakdown of aircraft between airlines


-Frontier: 100 A320neo, 34 A321neo
-JetSMART: 56 A320neo, 14 A321neo
-Volaris: 46 A320neo, 34 A321neo
-Wizzair: 72 A320neo, 74 A321neo

https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/930696421791191040

Wizz Air is this in addition to the 110 A321 Neo or its a reconfiguration of the same order

Airbus forecast in 1987 was for 800 a320 sold over its life.... today they sold more than half that.

Wow, just what happened? I left airliners.net for few mins, this came about! Congratulation to IndiGo and Airbus! What a comeback despite all the doom and gloom from naysayers!

Is this single largest order for A320neo family in one announcement?

From history, AirAsia placed an order for 200 A320neo back in 2011. In June 2012, a top-up order of 64 was made. Another 40 A320neo was booked when they converted remaining A320ceo on order to neo, total of 304 A320neos.

IndiGo (India) placed an order for 150 A320neo back in 2011, top up again in 2014 with another 250 A320neo. Total of 400 A320neo.

To put this order in context, that amount of aircraft is nearly 1 years production in one order! That's a huge amount to the backlog.

The Airbus press release reads as it's a framework deal. Indigo Partners has placed this MoU to get a very good price and now the different airlines within the group can firm up their part when they need to do this. A bit like the Chinese orders, but then with more freedom for the individual airlines.

Must I remind all that eventhough this is an awesome commitment, it's "just" that ... an MoU, not a firm order.
I know most MoU's are being firmed up but it can, in some cases, take years. I doubt that we will see this in the backlog of 2017, but how great it would be if we did.
Anyway ... congrats to Airbus. This was really "needed" and I'm smiling again.

chiad wrote:

Must I remind all that eventhough this is an awesome commitment, it's "just" that ... an MoU, not a firm order.
I know most MoU's are being firmed up but it can, in some cases, take years. I doubt that we will see this in the backlog of 2017, but how great it would be if we did.
Anyway ... congrats to Airbus. This was really "needed" and I'm smiling again.

It may happen in last few days of December.....maybe after Boeing announced their year end closing. Hahaha!

Indigo Partners is an American Private equity company - no relation to IndiGo (India)

I was confused too

Wizz Air has been doing good since 2 to 3 years, now with the A321neos coming, I am sure they will add more destinations. This will be a big game changer for them.

juliuswong wrote:

chiad wrote:

Must I remind all that eventhough this is an awesome commitment, it's "just" that ... an MoU, not a firm order.
I know most MoU's are being firmed up but it can, in some cases, take years. I doubt that we will see this in the backlog of 2017, but how great it would be if we did.
Anyway ... congrats to Airbus. This was really "needed" and I'm smiling again.

It may happen in last few days of December.....maybe after Boeing announced their year end closing. Hahaha!

Yes, the infamous 5th quarter. Cross my finger for that.

The weird thing is that the Indian Indigo Airline also has a total of 430 orders of A320neo and A321neo combined and now this American Indigo also has 430 orders.

So basically Airbus has got 860 orders from Indigos

Congratulations to Airbus and all those Airlines for their commitment to this great aircraft. Seems like the demise of Airbus is not imminent

Nothing against planned orders but MoUs are no orders. This goes for A and B. This is just vaporware until firmed up.

Egyptair and AerCap also announced a deal for the lease of 15 A20neo's


"AerCap and EGYPTAIR Reach Agreement on the Lease of 15 Airbus A320neo Aircraft"

http://www.aercap.com/newsroom/press-re ... 0neo-aircr

With all due respect to Airbus and John Leahy, but this MoU from Indigo Partners was about saving face. They came to Dubai with all their corporate honchos to sign EK up for a massive A380 order, and everyone assumed the deal was in the bag. John Leahy was going to extend the A380 program and it was going to make major headlines. Then EK flipped, ordered 787-10's and made the Airbus bigwigs look for the nearest exit . John Leahy was able to get an order of 25 aircraft from Wataniya, but it did very little to reverse the negative publicity. So he got on the phone and started doing what he does best, making deals, and found a savior in white garments...Indigo Partners. This MoU has stopped the bleeding and actually created some very good headlines, which in my opinion, is what this was all about. Time will tell if Indigo Partners sign on the dotted line, but more then likely, it won't be for the amount of aircraft they are currently slated for. Right now though , it doesn't matter. They have made the EK/A380 nightmare go away and actually made history, for now, as the largest aircraft order ever. Quite a difference 48 hours makes.

piedmontf284000 wrote:

With all due respect to Airbus and John Leahy, but this MoU from Indigo Partners was about saving face. They came to Dubai with all their corporate honchos to sign EK up for a massive A380 order, and everyone assumed the deal was in the bag. John Leahy was going to extend the A380 program and it was going to make major headlines. Then EK flipped, ordered 787-10's and made the Airbus bigwigs look for the nearest exit . John Leahy was able to get an order of 25 aircraft from Wataniya, but it did very little to reverse the negative publicity. So he got on the phone and started doing what he does best, making deals, and found a savior in white garments...Indigo Partners. This MoU has stopped the bleeding and actually created some very good headlines, which in my opinion, is what this was all about. Time will tell if Indigo Partners sign on the dotted line, but more then likely, it won't be for the amount of aircraft they are currently slated for. Right now though , it doesn't matter. They have made the EK/A380 nightmare go away and actually made history, for now, as the largest aircraft order ever. Quite a difference 48 hours makes.

a 430 aircraft order cannot just be a magic trick. Thought only a mou it is still a larger order than 40 380's. Saving the 380 may save a lot of faces, 430 a320 will give airbus more jobs and profit.

Noshow wrote:

Nothing against planned orders but MoUs are no orders. This goes for A and B. This is just vaporware until firmed up.

True. But if we take into account that 99% of all MoUs ever signed get turned into a firm order, this deal may be as good as a done deal.

Nice surprise here. I like to know what that means for Frontier. Quite a lot of growth. They must plan to grow out of Denver to other parts of the country. There aren't that many people living in the rockies.

Also would have been nice if there were some CS300 in the mix, not many, just like 100 or so

Noshow wrote:

Nothing against planned orders but MoUs are no orders. This goes for A and B. This is just vaporware until firmed up.

MoU is an MoU nothing less. nothing more.

I have a more negative opinion on those mushrooming anonymous orders
and their clandestine conversion to "assigned" orders without taking reference to the original announcement.
Schummelpackung.

tvh wrote:

piedmontf284000 wrote:

With all due respect to Airbus and John Leahy, but this MoU from Indigo Partners was about saving face. They came to Dubai with all their corporate honchos to sign EK up for a massive A380 order, and everyone assumed the deal was in the bag. John Leahy was going to extend the A380 program and it was going to make major headlines. Then EK flipped, ordered 787-10's and made the Airbus bigwigs look for the nearest exit . John Leahy was able to get an order of 25 aircraft from Wataniya, but it did very little to reverse the negative publicity. So he got on the phone and started doing what he does best, making deals, and found a savior in white garments...Indigo Partners. This MoU has stopped the bleeding and actually created some very good headlines, which in my opinion, is what this was all about. Time will tell if Indigo Partners sign on the dotted line, but more then likely, it won't be for the amount of aircraft they are currently slated for. Right now though , it doesn't matter. They have made the EK/A380 nightmare go away and actually made history, for now, as the largest aircraft order ever. Quite a difference 48 hours makes.

a 430 aircraft order cannot just be a magic trick. Thought only a mou it is still a larger order than 40 380's. Saving the 380 may save a lot of faces, 430 a320 will give airbus more jobs and profit.

I totally agree. For the first time I think it might not be the worst idea to close down the A380. You can build a lot of A320 in that massive FAL in Toulouse. I really like the A380 but is it really worth it to bow to Emirates to that extend (and still loose money)?

piedmontf284000 wrote:

So he got on the phone and started doing what he does best, making deals,

Aircraft deals of this magnitude do not happen overnight.

KarelXWB wrote:

piedmontf284000 wrote:

So he got on the phone and started doing what he does best, making deals,

Aircraft deals of this magnitude do not happen overnight.

No doubt, but that doesn't mean that a deal that is in the works, can't suddenly be made public for the reasons I spoke of. Hence the MoU. There are still a lot of details to be worked out in this deal...A LOT.

piedmontf284000 wrote:

With all due respect to Airbus and John Leahy, but this MoU from Indigo Partners was about saving face. [...] So he got on the phone and started doing what he does best, making deals, and found a savior in white garments...Indigo Partners.

As KarelXWB already pointed out: Orders of this size do not simply happen overnight.
Even an order of 5 A320neo from an existing operator doesn't happen overnight.
Furthermore, you can safely assume that no order gets canned just because the kinks didn't get sorted in time for a signing ceremony at a trade show. It's happened to A and B that an expected announcement didn't come to pass and instead happened at another time.
Which means that EK and Airbus will continue negotiating about that A380 order and probably come to some sort of agreement. If I was to put money on it, before the year is out.

piedmontf284000 wrote:

No doubt, but that doesn't mean that a deal that is in the works, can't suddenly be made public for the reasons I spoke of. Hence the MoU. There are still a lot of details to be worked out in this deal...A LOT.

You're changing your statements here - you initially said Leahy got on the phone and started selling in order to save face.
Now you're saying they possibly just pulled the MoU announcement forward to have some good news for the show as the expected A380 order hadn't happened.

The latter sounds a lot more plausible than the former - I still don't buy it, though.
Because to be honest, an air show is a pretty good place to announce the biggest single commitment in aviation history, regardless of whether another expected order has come to pass or not.
So if I was to put money on it: Announcing that massive MoU in Dubai was probably the plan all along.

Bricktop wrote:

I also wonder if this is an announcement brought forward from the fifth quarter as something of a face saver for Airbus at the DAS. Sledgehammer meet walnut, if so.

I am more convinced of this now in light of the big 737 Max order from FlyDubai. The optics out of this show would have been really dreadful for Airbus without this rabbit popping out.