TWFlyGuy
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:30 pm

tphuang wrote:
So this is basically demand of
Aa flyers from west coast and southwest to Iceland
Vs
Dallas area demand for Europe

Aa is going to loose big time here. I am definitely not going to fly to Iceland via Dallas and I can't imagine anyone on east coast would.

I would imagine there is quite a large demand in Dallas for low cost travel to Europe. We can check for people who travel just to Iceland fo vacation. I don't think that's a large number.


Not sure AA will lose much. This is purely a defensive move for them. Icelandair & WOW are coming into the market relying mostly on European connections at low prices with some bucket of local traffic for tourism. AA already covers Europe so they can continue to serve that traffic using basic economy fares to compete. For the local traffic AA can rely on basic economy and AAdvantage to swing many in their direction. Then you add connecting folks on AA, they likely have the advantage here.
 
klm617
Posts: 1648
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
Given the cities WOW & Icelandair have picked up recently it will be interesting to see when they will add more east coast cities (i.e. RDU, CLT, BWI, ATL) which for WOW could be an opportunity to partner with a US carrier (maybe WN?).



WOW should partner with Spirit at DTW. Same business plan and it will help both airlines grow in the Detroit market sort of what Jetblue has done at Boston.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
itchief
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:15 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:46 pm

txjim wrote:
I don't understand AA's approach. Although I'm interested in Iceland, most of my searches have been centered on the lower fares to European cities (DFW-Copenhagen with a single stopover, $550 on WOW, $1400 AA/BA per Google Flights) which were not easy to obtain in the past. Every time I saw a mention of cheap airfare from an east-coast city, the cost of getting to the gateway eliminated any savings.

AA, however, will not have onward connections. I imagine they will not try to match WOW, will try to match Icelandair, and the experiment will be over in 2019.



If you search a little more you will see WOW's big seat(recliner) for less than $1000 to European cities. That beats AA/BA 17inch $1400 coach seat in a big way. AA will really have to take a bath on this route to match WOW.
 
jfk777
Posts: 6276
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:01 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
ORD-MAN going seasonal is the bigger news here, I think. That leaves London as the only year-round transatlantic destination from the ORD hub. I realize that a range of points are still available year-round from PHL, but it's still sad to see the ORD transatlantic operation dwindle down to almost nothing.


How can Chicago dwindle to almost no winter flights to Europe all of a sudden, is all the connecting traffic really getting redirected through Philadelphia ? With the exception of LHR and long haul Asian to Tokyo, Shanghai and Peking AA has really become second fiddle to United at ORD. Maybe getting some USair A330-200 to ORD and sending some 777 to CLT & PHL is not the worst idea in the world. AA needs to grow in Chicago not reduce its long haul to a LHR core, even if with 3 787-8 daily. AA should not sacrifice ORD for the PHL benefit.
 
wn676
Posts: 1519
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:03 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
DanDun wrote:
Also starting CLT-TUS on an A320, service starts Feb 15


I think this is smart add.. East coast destined passengers can avoid connecting through PHX and head straight to the east coast


AA does already offer TUS-east coast connections bypassing PHX via DFW and ORD, although restarting CLT offers additional connectivity in the southeast.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 6034
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:04 pm

aa777lvr wrote:
DFW-KEF on a 752? Let's hope they have plenty of days where the KEF weather allows them to go N/A (no alternate), or it could be an interesting route to dispatch.


Two diversion airports in Iceland, AEY and EGS. RKV would have similar weather as KEF.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:10 pm

jfk777 wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
ORD-MAN going seasonal is the bigger news here, I think. That leaves London as the only year-round transatlantic destination from the ORD hub. I realize that a range of points are still available year-round from PHL, but it's still sad to see the ORD transatlantic operation dwindle down to almost nothing.


How can Chicago dwindle to almost no winter flights to Europe all of a sudden, is all the connecting traffic really getting redirected through Philadelphia ? With the exception of LHR and long haul Asian to Tokyo, Shanghai and Peking AA has really become second fiddle to United at ORD. Maybe getting some USair A330-200 to ORD and sending some 777 to CLT & PHL is not the worst idea in the world. AA needs to grow in Chicago not reduce its long haul to a LHR core, even if with 3 787-8 daily. AA should not sacrifice ORD for the PHL benefit.


I'm not sure what the A332s would do in ORD? The 788 is smaller and provides an upgraded product to compete with UA and foreign airlines. In addition, there aren't really international flights on 777s out of ORD (sometimes scheduled for LHR and formerly, CDG). So 777s would come from other hubs to go to CLT and PHL. Finally, if we want less traffic directed over CLT and PHL, wouldn't you want smaller planes there and not larger?
 
stl07
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:21 pm

This whole DFW is the most important hub in every case no exceptions thing needs to stop. AAs sole links to Alaska and Iceland should not be from DFW. As an extra flight from their large hub for connections to the Southeast/Western markets, sure, but ORD/PHL would have made so much more sense for the KEF flight which would capture almost every geographical region in the nation without a long flight in the wrong direction.
I will fly WN when they have the ability to give me a seat: something even NK can do.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:30 pm

Disappointing to see AA retreat further at MAN.

Having cut JFK, the long season on the B788 indicated AA were going to compete at ORD. Alas, their TATL network continues to shrink. The more DL/VS expand, the more AA contract. I wonder what moves are afoot behind this?
 
cschleic
Posts: 1388
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:31 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
RJNUT wrote:
the good thing about the US3 now all going to Iceland is the ability of almost all small/mid size cities finally getting connectivity. With Icelandair ,unless you had AS or B6 connections, you were basically cutoff from one-stop ticketing/pricing to KEF


Could JetBlue fly from JFK or BOS to KEF in terms of range? Even if they already codeshare with Icelandair.


WOW currently flies 321s to the U.S. east coast, don't they? Seems like B6 could do it. It's only about 100 miles more than JFK to LAX anyway.
 
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Runway28L
Posts: 73
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:33 pm

I gotta say I'm surprised. When AA hinted Iceland a few weeks ago, the speculation was that PHL-KEF was a given. Would've made sense to enter a new European market from the 'powerhouse TATL hub'.

But then again, speculation is speculation. Maybe AA sees something in DFW-KEF that we can't see. Crazy to see that route go from being completely unserved to having three carriers at once that fast.

CLT-TUS is another great add to AA's Charlotte hub. Should work since this is post-merger AA's first attempt and there's a broader network available compared to L-US's last attempt.
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 422
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:34 pm

jfk777 wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
ORD-MAN going seasonal is the bigger news here, I think. That leaves London as the only year-round transatlantic destination from the ORD hub. I realize that a range of points are still available year-round from PHL, but it's still sad to see the ORD transatlantic operation dwindle down to almost nothing.


How can Chicago dwindle to almost no winter flights to Europe all of a sudden, is all the connecting traffic really getting redirected through Philadelphia ? With the exception of LHR and long haul Asian to Tokyo, Shanghai and Peking AA has really become second fiddle to United at ORD. Maybe getting some USair A330-200 to ORD and sending some 777 to CLT & PHL is not the worst idea in the world. AA needs to grow in Chicago not reduce its long haul to a LHR core, even if with 3 787-8 daily. AA should not sacrifice ORD for the PHL benefit.


UA, Star, and the JVs are in a much stronger position in Europe than OW. AA gets edged out in Germany and Belgium by UA/LH, France/Netherlands by UA and the AF/DL/KL JV, Scandinavia by SAS/Star, and what's left are largely seasonal or low yield markets. OW in Europe is more or less the LHR/BA show with MAD as a sidekick. Those are served year round by AA/BA/IB, and DUB will be as well when EI joins OW. HEL is too niche to be sustained year round, and the last OW hub in Europe, DME (S7) is a fourth tier player. Star just has more critical mass to be able to serve LHR, CDG, AMS, BRU, FRA, MUC, CPH, ARN, WAW, and IST year round.
 
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piedmontf284000
Posts: 234
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:49 pm

AA really had no choice but to start DFW-KEF. If they just sat by idly, they would have watched WW and FI take over not only the Icelandic market, but a great deal of the European market as well. AA's sole goal here is to remain the dominant player for European traffic at DFW. Outside of LF, they don't have any other European competitors, unlike ORD, where they have to compete with OS, LX, EI, AF, TK, and SK. AA is not starting this because people want to go to Iceland, although that might be a minor consideration; they are starting this make the yields so bad for FI and WW, that they have to pull out of DFW, or at least one of them. Time will tell, but this is going to be an absolute bloodbath. If anyone is looking to fly to Iceland next summer, DFW is your city to fly out of.

As for the ORD-MAN drawback, I think that it's a testament to a couple of things. First, there is just no business case for it anymore. The business traffic between the two cities is virtually nothing lately and AA could not sustain the losses during the winter months that it was incurring. Secondly, those wishing to travel to MAN have so many options now out of ORD. There are multiple players (EI, WW, FI, and now DY). Looking at March, one can travel on DY to LGW for $159 (one-way) and then connect to MAN on BE for $40, with a minimal layover. That is under $200 to travel from ORD to MAN. How can AA compete with that? A non-stop flight on AA from ORD-MAN is going for $2,641!! AA has given up on ORD for International travel. They are reduced to just LHR, PEK, PVG, and NRT year round and two of those aren't even daily. The fact is they are relying on just summer traffic to make Int'l travel work out of ORD. They have left the AA business traveler without many options from ORD to Europe.
Last edited by piedmontf284000 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Indy
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:54 pm

This is not a bright move on AA's part. How do they think this will go? They can offer no connections out of KEF so they are relying 100% on O/D. How much demand do they believe there is? Unlikely it is very much. And of that demand they will have the highest fares. They cannot compete in price and they cannot offer connections like the other carriers. I see a lot of very empty AA flights between DFW and KEF. This will be a huge money loser for them. This is why airlines are constantly in and out of financial trouble. Or as they would say... it was 9/11, the economy, fuel prices, too much competition, etc. *sigh*
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
tphuang
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:06 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
So this is basically demand of
Aa flyers from west coast and southwest to Iceland
Vs
Dallas area demand for Europe

Aa is going to loose big time here. I am definitely not going to fly to Iceland via Dallas and I can't imagine anyone on east coast would.

I would imagine there is quite a large demand in Dallas for low cost travel to Europe. We can check for people who travel just to Iceland fo vacation. I don't think that's a large number.


Not sure AA will lose much. This is purely a defensive move for them. Icelandair & WOW are coming into the market relying mostly on European connections at low prices with some bucket of local traffic for tourism. AA already covers Europe so they can continue to serve that traffic using basic economy fares to compete. For the local traffic AA can rely on basic economy and AAdvantage to swing many in their direction. Then you add connecting folks on AA, they likely have the advantage here.


it's definitely a defensive move, but this move doesn't do anything. The battle here is still DFW to Europe. DFW to KEF does not change that equation at all. And DFW to Europe via LHR or PHL is going to have a hard time to compete against FI/WW on cost. That's before and after this move.

If they really want to take away some of the East Coast to KEF demand that FI/WW gets (which I assume is what would hurt FI/WW the most), they need to fly PHL-KEF. FI/WW currently doesn't attract much west coast/southwest to KEF flow. And frankly, I don't know how much of that demand is available.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:09 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
As for the ORD-MAN drawback, I think that it's a testament to a couple of things. First, there is just no business case for it anymore. The business traffic between the two cities is virtually nothing lately and AA could not sustain the losses during the winter months that it was incurring. Secondly, those wishing to travel to MAN have so many options now out of ORD. There are multiple players (EI, WW, FI, and now DY). Looking at March, one can travel on DY to LGW for $159 (one-way) and then connect to MAN on BE for $40, with a minimal layover. That is under $200 to travel from ORD to MAN. How can AA compete with that? A non-stop flight on AA from ORD-MAN is going for $2,641!! AA has given up on ORD for International travel. They are reduced to just LHR, PEK, PVG, and NRT year round and two of those aren't even daily. The fact is they are relying on just summer traffic to make Int'l travel work out of ORD. They have left the AA business traveler without many options from ORD to Europe.


I'll bet there's low demand at $2,641 a pop!

Crazy pricing.
 
CHI2DFW
Posts: 120
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:11 pm

jfk777 wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
ORD-MAN going seasonal is the bigger news here, I think. That leaves London as the only year-round transatlantic destination from the ORD hub. I realize that a range of points are still available year-round from PHL, but it's still sad to see the ORD transatlantic operation dwindle down to almost nothing.


How can Chicago dwindle to almost no winter flights to Europe all of a sudden, is all the connecting traffic really getting redirected through Philadelphia ? With the exception of LHR and long haul Asian to Tokyo, Shanghai and Peking AA has really become second fiddle to United at ORD. Maybe getting some USair A330-200 to ORD and sending some 777 to CLT & PHL is not the worst idea in the world. AA needs to grow in Chicago not reduce its long haul to a LHR core, even if with 3 787-8 daily. AA should not sacrifice ORD for the PHL benefit.


If there wasn’t a gate issue at ORD, UA would probably add more Int’l flights at ORD. AA is a joke at ORD. UAs incompetence is why AA gets O&D in Chicago. If UA could get their act together and add new gates, then AA would have to commit or get out.
 
CHI2DFW
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 1:44 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:12 pm

Indy wrote:
This is not a bright move on AA's part. How do they think this will go? They can offer no connections out of KEF so they are relying 100% on O/D. How much demand do they believe there is? Unlikely it is very much. And of that demand they will have the highest fares. They cannot compete in price and they cannot offer connections like the other carriers. I see a lot of very empty AA flights between DFW and KEF. This will be a huge money loser for them. This is why airlines are constantly in and out of financial trouble. Or as they would say... it was 9/11, the economy, fuel prices, too much competition, etc. *sigh*


AA will defend DFW. They’ve driven airlines out in the past and will continue to do so in the future.
 
grbauc
Posts: 812
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:32 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
ORD-MAN going seasonal is the bigger news here, I think. That leaves London as the only year-round transatlantic destination from the ORD hub. I realize that a range of points are still available year-round from PHL, but it's still sad to see the ORD transatlantic operation dwindle down to almost nothing.


For locals and im sure a few close connections yea but for me connections through ORD are avoided much of the year. I do understand the pain.
 
wenders825
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:39 pm

Indy wrote:
This is not a bright move on AA's part. How do they think this will go? They can offer no connections out of KEF so they are relying 100% on O/D. How much demand do they believe there is? Unlikely it is very much. And of that demand they will have the highest fares. They cannot compete in price and they cannot offer connections like the other carriers. I see a lot of very empty AA flights between DFW and KEF. This will be a huge money loser for them. This is why airlines are constantly in and out of financial trouble. Or as they would say... it was 9/11, the economy, fuel prices, too much competition, etc. *sigh*

clearly, if DL flies MSP-KEF, UA EWR-KEF, and AC YYZ/YUL-KEF, there's demand.
 
kevintarmac
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:00 am

jfk777 wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
ORD-MAN going seasonal is the bigger news here, I think. That leaves London as the only year-round transatlantic destination from the ORD hub. I realize that a range of points are still available year-round from PHL, but it's still sad to see the ORD transatlantic operation dwindle down to almost nothing.


How can Chicago dwindle to almost no winter flights to Europe all of a sudden, is all the connecting traffic really getting redirected through Philadelphia ? With the exception of LHR and long haul Asian to Tokyo, Shanghai and Peking AA has really become second fiddle to United at ORD. Maybe getting some USair A330-200 to ORD and sending some 777 to CLT & PHL is not the worst idea in the world. AA needs to grow in Chicago not reduce its long haul to a LHR core, even if with 3 787-8 daily. AA should not sacrifice ORD for the PHL benefit.


I agree that ORD shouldn't be sacrificed to the other hubs but I feel the reductions are a fleeting problem. With the 757s in fewer number and nothing at LAA hubs between the 757 and 767/787 growth or maintaining may be a challenge. The 757 isn't based in ORD so it's crewed and operated out of a different hub. not to mention this fall, the 757 has been seen in BGR and JFK a lot for range issues. I don't think that's helping the route popularity either.
 
boslax
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:34 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:14 am

Are there enough hotel rooms in Reykjavik to even accommodate all of the passengers from the new nonstop services into KEF the past few years?
 
dirtyfrankd
Posts: 190
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:15 am

DFW-KEF on a AA 752. OUCH!
 
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SFOA380
Posts: 496
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:16 am

boslax wrote:
Are there enough hotel rooms in Reykjavik to even accommodate all of the passengers from the new nonstop services into KEF the past few years?


Airbnb has exploded in Iceland.
 
usairways85
Posts: 3743
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:27 am

jfk777 wrote:
How can Chicago dwindle to almost no winter flights to Europe all of a sudden, is all the connecting traffic really getting redirected through Philadelphia ? With the exception of LHR and long haul Asian to Tokyo, Shanghai and Peking AA has really become second fiddle to United at ORD. Maybe getting some USair A330-200 to ORD and sending some 777 to CLT & PHL is not the worst idea in the world. AA needs to grow in Chicago not reduce its long haul to a LHR core, even if with 3 787-8 daily. AA should not sacrifice ORD for the PHL benefit.

PHL isn't immune to this either. Last winter and again this winter PHL-FRA is seasonal. FRA is PHL's 2nd largest TA market (thanks to LH also on the route) and AA choose to hand the winter non-stop capacity over to LH that flies year round.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 592
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:28 am

AA, WW and Icelandair won't all be profitable on this route. In fact, I would go as far to say that one will likely pull out with 2 years (most likely WW).
 
ADrum23
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:31 am

jfk777 wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
ORD-MAN going seasonal is the bigger news here, I think. That leaves London as the only year-round transatlantic destination from the ORD hub. I realize that a range of points are still available year-round from PHL, but it's still sad to see the ORD transatlantic operation dwindle down to almost nothing.


How can Chicago dwindle to almost no winter flights to Europe all of a sudden, is all the connecting traffic really getting redirected through Philadelphia ? With the exception of LHR and long haul Asian to Tokyo, Shanghai and Peking AA has really become second fiddle to United at ORD. Maybe getting some USair A330-200 to ORD and sending some 777 to CLT & PHL is not the worst idea in the world. AA needs to grow in Chicago not reduce its long haul to a LHR core, even if with 3 787-8 daily. AA should not sacrifice ORD for the PHL benefit.


Agreed. And to start, ORD-CDG should go back to year round. Kind of surprised that is still seasonal.

Maybe if they commit to help rebuild the terminals at ORD, they can get more gates for TATL service.
 
jordanh
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:39 am

wenders825 wrote:
Indy wrote:
This is not a bright move on AA's part. How do they think this will go? They can offer no connections out of KEF so they are relying 100% on O/D. How much demand do they believe there is? Unlikely it is very much. And of that demand they will have the highest fares. They cannot compete in price and they cannot offer connections like the other carriers. I see a lot of very empty AA flights between DFW and KEF. This will be a huge money loser for them. This is why airlines are constantly in and out of financial trouble. Or as they would say... it was 9/11, the economy, fuel prices, too much competition, etc. *sigh*

clearly, if DL flies MSP-KEF, UA EWR-KEF, and AC YYZ/YUL-KEF, there's demand.


Not so clearly at all. The fact that three other airlines in North America does not mean - especially with the huge additions from Icelandic Air and WOW - there is room for even more seats. Indeed, the fact that so many airlines are already flying there is an indication that there are already too many seats headed to such a small, niche player (albeit the Icelandic carriers can profit from onward travel to Europe, effectively making KEF less an ultimate destination).

This is undoubtedly a defensive move; AA doesn't like anybody moving into its fortress at DFW - especially carries that are capable of offering low fares to Europe.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:53 am

I wonder who will be the first to exit.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
CHI2DFW
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 1:44 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:01 am

dirtyfrankd wrote:
DFW-KEF on a AA 752. OUCH!


According to A.NET, ORD-DFW on a 757 is ouch! DFW-LIM/KEF is a dream experience! It’s just how the fan club spins it.

I do think AA at ORD is in jeopardy if UA was strong and competition had gates. But UA and AA are happy with the duopoly. The lack of investment for gates from Daley and Rham keeps competition out. WN is maxed out at MDW, so the only threat is other hubs.

Until MKE, STL, IND, CMH, CLE, CVG become viable alternatives, Chicago is stuck with what Boss Madigan gives them. And since the “pop” tax backfired greatly, the citizens of the People’s Republic of Illinois May finally be wakening up to their corrupt politicians and union stranglehold.
 
F27500
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:02 am

i'm still picturing how them Texans gonna be tryna pronounce it:

"REKKA- UH - KEFLERVAK ASSLAND" ... "Uh .... WHAYYYYRE?!"
Last edited by F27500 on Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3825
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:14 am

F27500 wrote:
i'm still picturing how them Texans gonna be tryna pronounce it:

"REKKA- UH - KEFLERVAK ASSLAND" ... "Uh .... WHAYYYYRE?!"

Y’all sayi we ain’t smart
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3825
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:14 am

F27500 wrote:
i'm still picturing how them Texans gonna be tryna pronounce it:

"REKKA- UH - KEFLERVAK ASSLAND" ... "Uh .... WHAYYYYRE?!"

Y’all sayi we ain’t smart
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
L0VE2FLY
Posts: 867
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:54 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:26 am

US-Iceland expansion is on a roll! Hope to see FI or WW here in SAN, the 757 should be able to do SAN. The A321LR would be perfect for WW to start long, thin routes to the West Coast.
 
B757capt
Posts: 1330
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:33 am

enilria wrote:
I think AA's retaliation will struggle big time. It will hurt WW/FI, but AA will do much worse.


I disagree with you. AA has the larger hub in Dallas and will survive with lots of traffic.
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
F27500
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:38 am

[url][/url]
L0VE2FLY wrote:
US-Iceland expansion is on a roll! Hope to see FI or WW here in SAN, the 757 should be able to do SAN. The A321LR would be perfect for WW to start long, thin routes to the West Coast.


A high 757 or high-density A321 from Southern Calfornia to Iceland? Who in their right mind would WANT to endure that ??
 
User001
Posts: 483
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:40 am

[*]
piedmontf284000 wrote:
Looking at March, one can travel on DY to LGW for $159 (one-way) and then connect to MAN on BE for $40, with a minimal layover. That is under $200 to travel from ORD to MAN. How can AA compete with that? A non-stop flight on AA from ORD-MAN is going for $2,641!! .


Given flybe don't operate LGW-MAN, it makes the DY/BE option suddenly look less attractive.
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 868
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:45 am

cschleic wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
RJNUT wrote:
the good thing about the US3 now all going to Iceland is the ability of almost all small/mid size cities finally getting connectivity. With Icelandair ,unless you had AS or B6 connections, you were basically cutoff from one-stop ticketing/pricing to KEF


Could JetBlue fly from JFK or BOS to KEF in terms of range? Even if they already codeshare with Icelandair.


WOW currently flies 321s to the U.S. east coast, don't they? Seems like B6 could do it. It's only about 100 miles more than JFK to LAX anyway.


The problem is that B6 would have to take over an FI frequency to make it work, with B6 feeding into FI's nighttime bank of flights. That raises a new problem: where's your return trip feed, since generally FI's nighttime bank is to Europe and daytime bank is to the USA? Would the plane sit around for a long time at KEF? Keep in mind that B6 tends to have its planes in the air for almost 12 hours a day.

As for who exits, I suspect that they can all do it at least seasonally. On the KEF end, AA can feed into S7's Russian network as S7 flies to KEF...it's an alternative to connecting at LHR to BA or S7. However, this is where it would really help AA if LO could be flipped out of Star Alliance to oneworld to have an Eastern European reach not relying on Heathrow.
 
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uberflieger
Posts: 1566
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Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:46 am

CHI2DFW wrote:
I do think AA at ORD is in jeopardy


Hm, yeah, that's why AA is spending millions building 5 new gates for additional flights. ;)

The MAN cut back shouldn't surprise anybody. The rising star is Dublin, a growing IAG hub with EI / FR connections to the UK regions and beyond. I believe AA ORD-DUB eventually goes year round.

Congratulations to DFW and all the new low fares KEF flights. :bigthumbsup:
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dirtyfrankd
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:10 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:55 am

CHI2DFW wrote:
dirtyfrankd wrote:
DFW-KEF on a AA 752. OUCH!


According to A.NET, ORD-DFW on a 757 is ouch! DFW-LIM/KEF is a dream experience! It’s just how the fan club spins it.

I do think AA at ORD is in jeopardy if UA was strong and competition had gates. But UA and AA are happy with the duopoly. The lack of investment for gates from Daley and Rham keeps competition out. WN is maxed out at MDW, so the only threat is other hubs.

Until MKE, STL, IND, CMH, CLE, CVG become viable alternatives, Chicago is stuck with what Boss Madigan gives them. And since the “pop” tax backfired greatly, the citizens of the People’s Republic of Illinois May finally be wakening up to their corrupt politicians and union stranglehold.


Haha, true. Don't get me wrong, the 752 is an incredibly capable aircraft and one of the greatest birds ever built...it's just that AA's 752s are incredibly tired on the inside. When I was working at AA, I avoided 752s and 763s like the plague when non-revving. Especially on longer flights. Pretty much always stuck to 32Bs, 788/789s, 77Es, 77Ws. Generally avoided LUS aircraft as well.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1388
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:05 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
cschleic wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:

Could JetBlue fly from JFK or BOS to KEF in terms of range? Even if they already codeshare with Icelandair.


WOW currently flies 321s to the U.S. east coast, don't they? Seems like B6 could do it. It's only about 100 miles more than JFK to LAX anyway.


The problem is that B6 would have to take over an FI frequency to make it work, with B6 feeding into FI's nighttime bank of flights. That raises a new problem: where's your return trip feed, since generally FI's nighttime bank is to Europe and daytime bank is to the USA? Would the plane sit around for a long time at KEF? Keep in mind that B6 tends to have its planes in the air for almost 12 hours a day.

As for who exits, I suspect that they can all do it at least seasonally. On the KEF end, AA can feed into S7's Russian network as S7 flies to KEF...it's an alternative to connecting at LHR to BA or S7. However, this is where it would really help AA if LO could be flipped out of Star Alliance to oneworld to have an Eastern European reach not relying on Heathrow.


Agreed, there would be challenges. I was talking in terms of the question about range capability. Heck, KEF - BOS is shorter than JFK - LAX.

F27500 wrote:
[url][/url]
L0VE2FLY wrote:
US-Iceland expansion is on a roll! Hope to see FI or WW here in SAN, the 757 should be able to do SAN. The A321LR would be perfect for WW to start long, thin routes to the West Coast.


Not sure a 757 would work. Didn't FI fly 767s to SFO for a while because it was too far for the 757? Their longest current U.S. flight is KEF - PDX which is 3,741 miles. KEF - LAX is 4,312 so SAN would be a little further. That might be beyond the plane's range when factoring in reserves, etc., unless load penalized.

KEF - DFW is about 3,740 so the same as KEF - PDX.
 
chepos
Posts: 6082
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:06 am

dirtyfrankd wrote:
CHI2DFW wrote:
dirtyfrankd wrote:
DFW-KEF on a AA 752. OUCH!


According to A.NET, ORD-DFW on a 757 is ouch! DFW-LIM/KEF is a dream experience! It’s just how the fan club spins it.

I do think AA at ORD is in jeopardy if UA was strong and competition had gates. But UA and AA are happy with the duopoly. The lack of investment for gates from Daley and Rham keeps competition out. WN is maxed out at MDW, so the only threat is other hubs.

Until MKE, STL, IND, CMH, CLE, CVG become viable alternatives, Chicago is stuck with what Boss Madigan gives them. And since the “pop” tax backfired greatly, the citizens of the People’s Republic of Illinois May finally be wakening up to their corrupt politicians and union stranglehold.


Haha, true. Don't get me wrong, the 752 is an incredibly capable aircraft and one of the greatest birds ever built...it's just that AA's 752s are incredibly tired on the inside. When I was working at AA, I avoided 752s and 763s like the plague when non-revving. Especially on longer flights. Pretty much always stuck to 32Bs, 788/789s, 77Es, 77Ws. Generally avoided LUS aircraft as well.


You are one picky nonrev, I go by what flight looks like I can get on. As long as that equipment gets me to my destination I could give a flying fig if there is a PTV, I know better and bring my own IFE. Just did DFW LIM last week, I survived perfectly fine (in Y).
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
tphuang
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:14 am

boslax wrote:
Are there enough hotel rooms in Reykjavik to even accommodate all of the passengers from the new nonstop services into KEF the past few years?

a lot of people are doing stopovers in Iceland. Depending on the amount of time they layover there, hotels and airbnb may not even be needed. A friend of my just slept in his car during his one or 2 day stopover there while driving around the island.

Also while tourism in Iceland has become a really big thing in recent years, I think visitors do spend good amount of time outside of Reykjavik. A lot of driving around and nature seeking.

I disagree with you. AA has the larger hub in Dallas and will survive with lots of traffic.

this doesn't hurt FI/WW at all, since the crowd they draw out of Dallas most likely going directly to Europe or doing a short stopover in Iceland.

How many people do you think from West Coast are actually going to Iceland and stopping there. I can see the draw from East Coast, but in West Coast and SouthWest, going to Canada and Alaska would be a better bang for the buck in summer time.

As for this talk about Icelandic tourism picking up, that I'm sure is the case, but how many of those visitors are Americans and how many of those Americans doing stopovers in Iceland on the way to Europe?
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 3601
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:23 am

raylee67 wrote:
Either the flights will go empty, or Iceland is going to be swamped with tourists


Iceland is already way overcrowded in Summer. It seems everyone runs an airbnb to keep up with demand, no joke. Iceland has been beyond hot with tourism but its super seasonal so invention of Airbnb has been huge. AA clearly is trying to get one of those airlines to leave DFW by sucking up O&D from those airlines. It might work.
 
dirtyfrankd
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:10 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:42 am

chepos wrote:
dirtyfrankd wrote:
CHI2DFW wrote:

According to A.NET, ORD-DFW on a 757 is ouch! DFW-LIM/KEF is a dream experience! It’s just how the fan club spins it.

I do think AA at ORD is in jeopardy if UA was strong and competition had gates. But UA and AA are happy with the duopoly. The lack of investment for gates from Daley and Rham keeps competition out. WN is maxed out at MDW, so the only threat is other hubs.

Until MKE, STL, IND, CMH, CLE, CVG become viable alternatives, Chicago is stuck with what Boss Madigan gives them. And since the “pop” tax backfired greatly, the citizens of the People’s Republic of Illinois May finally be wakening up to their corrupt politicians and union stranglehold.


Haha, true. Don't get me wrong, the 752 is an incredibly capable aircraft and one of the greatest birds ever built...it's just that AA's 752s are incredibly tired on the inside. When I was working at AA, I avoided 752s and 763s like the plague when non-revving. Especially on longer flights. Pretty much always stuck to 32Bs, 788/789s, 77Es, 77Ws. Generally avoided LUS aircraft as well.


You are one picky nonrev, I go by what flight looks like I can get on. As long as that equipment gets me to my destination I could give a flying fig if there is a PTV, I know better and bring my own IFE. Just did DFW LIM last week, I survived perfectly fine (in Y).


True, true. I did primarily go based off of loads but definitely considered aircraft also. I did try to get on LIM but it was always quite full (was at AA for a 12 week stint). Being based out of Dallas made it somewhat easy though...was mostly on the newer/ nicer birds. Once flew through CLT but those 332s weren't too bad.
 
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hvusslax
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:12 am

tphuang wrote:
As for this talk about Icelandic tourism picking up, that I'm sure is the case, but how many of those visitors are Americans and how many of those Americans doing stopovers in Iceland on the way to Europe?


Americans are the by far largest nationality of foreign tourists to Iceland. 415 thousand Americans visited in 2016, 23% of the total tourist number. 516 thousand Americans have visited Iceland in the first ten months of 2017, 27% of the total number of foreign tourists in that period.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 3541
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:25 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Either the flights will go empty, or Iceland is going to be swamped with tourists


Iceland is already way overcrowded in Summer. It seems everyone runs an airbnb to keep up with demand, no joke. Iceland has been beyond hot with tourism but its super seasonal so invention of Airbnb has been huge. AA clearly is trying to get one of those airlines to leave DFW by sucking up O&D from those airlines. It might work.


Not sure Iceland is super seasonal at least from Europe. For instance easyJet STN-KEF and Norwegian MAD-KEF services are winter-only. Northern Lights are also a tourist attraction.
 
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hvusslax
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:43 am

SCQ83 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Either the flights will go empty, or Iceland is going to be swamped with tourists


Iceland is already way overcrowded in Summer. It seems everyone runs an airbnb to keep up with demand, no joke. Iceland has been beyond hot with tourism but its super seasonal so invention of Airbnb has been huge. AA clearly is trying to get one of those airlines to leave DFW by sucking up O&D from those airlines. It might work.


Not sure Iceland is super seasonal at least from Europe. For instance easyJet STN-KEF and Norwegian MAD-KEF services are winter-only. Northern Lights are also a tourist attraction.


The seasons are evening out more and more. This year it seems that the most popular month (August) received a bit more than double the number of tourists as the least popular month (January) but a few years ago the biggest month was more like three or four times larger than the smallest one. There is a massive difference between different nationalities in this regard. There are far more Britons that visit Iceland in winter than do during the summer months. Asians seem pretty even all year-round.
 
David_itl
Posts: 6121
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:11 am

uberflieger wrote:
CHI2DFW wrote:
IThe MAN cut back shouldn't surprise anybody. The rising star is Dublin, a growing IAG hub with EI / FR connections to the UK regions and beyond. I believe AA ORD-DUB eventually goes year round:


You do know that MAN has grown by 10 million passsngers in under a decade to 27.2 million a year despite no major based carrrier, perceived lack of tourist appeal and not being a capital. This is all about AA being frightened of competition that doesnt use rubbish aircraft, rubbish reliability and rubbish service. You have to be braindead if you think the way to attract the MAN premium payer is to stop or reduce non-stop services and get them to route over LHR or DUB instead.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:30 am

At MAN the AA/BA JV is being soundly defeated by a combination of: (i) DL/VS flying into JFK/ATL with some P2P; (ii) TCX P2P flying; and (iii) the likes of SQ, UA and FI offering a diverse range of options. The market shows it's not a shrinking one, or that it lacks premium demand.

One of the issues is that for a long time BA have relied on routing passengers through LHR, which is no longer acceptable in the marketplace. Likewise, routing via LGW, DUB is a non starter when direct options exist with other carriers.

It's a shame, but it feels like more of an AA issue rather than ORD or OW...

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