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AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:47 pm
by DanDun
American will begin seasonal service from Dallas to Reykjavik-Iceland. It will be flown on a 757-200. Service starts June 7 and run until Oct 26. Also announced today ORD-MAN going seasonal , will run from Jun-Sept.
Also starting CLT-TUS on an A320, service starts Feb 15

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:49 pm
by stlgph
Well, Chicago, you see where you rank.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:51 pm
by SFOA380
Who would have ever guessed the first long-haul destination from DFW with three competitors would be Reykjavik...

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:53 pm
by itchief
This is good for us here in the DFW area. With WOW and Iceland Air starting service prices should look good.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:58 pm
by jsnww81
ORD-MAN going seasonal is the bigger news here, I think. That leaves London as the only year-round transatlantic destination from the ORD hub. I realize that a range of points are still available year-round from PHL, but it's still sad to see the ORD transatlantic operation dwindle down to almost nothing.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:07 pm
by sw733
Well...wow...didn't see that one coming.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:11 pm
by RJNUT
sw733 wrote:
Well...wow...didn't see that one coming.

the clue was in your response Well..WOW.didn't see............

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:14 pm
by raylee67
Either the flights will go empty, or Iceland is going to be swamped with tourists

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:18 pm
by SCQ83
RJNUT wrote:
sw733 wrote:
Well...wow...didn't see that one coming.

the clue was in your response Well..WOW.didn't see............


Hadn't Icelandair also announced DFW?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 667376001/

raylee67 wrote:
Either the flights will go empty, or Iceland is going to be swamped with tourists


And Luxair and S7 Siberian Airlines announced KEF this week from LUX and DME. The Icelandic boom does not seem to end. So three new carriers (American, Luxair and S7 in one week).

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:20 pm
by Vctony
DanDun wrote:
American will begin seasonal service from Dallas to Reykjavik-Iceland. It will be flown on a 757-200. Service starts June 7 and run until Oct 26. Also announced today ORD-MAN going seasonal , will run from Jun-Sept.
Also starting CLT-TUS on an A320, service starts Feb 15


Another stab at another route from TUS.

CLT - TUS probably makes more sense than the ill fated JFK - TUS route.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:23 pm
by chepos
I would have thought it was going to ne PHL KEF, DFW seems odd

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:25 pm
by chepos
This is the second time TUS gets a CLT flight, LUS operated this route in the late 2000’s I believe.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:34 pm
by Flighty
Do they forecast a profit? Hard to believe if so. And quite necessary from a legal perspective, AFAIK.

TUS-CLT makes some sense.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:37 pm
by RJNUT
the good thing about the US3 now all going to Iceland is the ability of almost all small/mid size cities finally getting connectivity. With Icelandair ,unless you had AS or B6 connections, you were basically cutoff from one-stop ticketing/pricing to KEF

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:42 pm
by SCQ83
RJNUT wrote:
the good thing about the US3 now all going to Iceland is the ability of almost all small/mid size cities finally getting connectivity. With Icelandair ,unless you had AS or B6 connections, you were basically cutoff from one-stop ticketing/pricing to KEF


Could JetBlue fly from JFK or BOS to KEF in terms of range? Even if they already codeshare with Icelandair.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:46 pm
by User001
I'm surprised the MAN cut is so deep. I would have expected a May-Oct season (currently runs April-January), but June-Sept is very short!

But then again, when they insist on using a B757 in winter that can barely make the route in one go (lots of Bangor stops again recently), then I'm not sure what they were expecting to happen really.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:48 pm
by usairways85
chepos wrote:
I would have thought it was going to ne PHL KEF, DFW seems odd

Eh, I am curious how FI did on PHL-KEF this past summer. Thus far for S18 they plan the same frequency but with a 738max instead of a 752.

I think this could be more about flooding the market to knock at least one of the two FI, WW off of DFW-KEF if not both.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:49 pm
by jbs2886
User001 wrote:
I'm surprised the MAN cut is so deep. I would have expected a May-Oct season (currently runs April-January), but June-Sept is very short!

But then again, when they insist on using a B757 in winter that can barely make the route in one go (lots of Bangor stops again recently), then I'm not sure what they were expecting to happen really.


There seems to be a big pullback by AA of TATL flying on the 757. That could be the issue. Disappointing nonetheless. I'm an AA flyer in Chicago and would like to see more expansion (yes, we got BCN and getting VCE) of year-round flying.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:52 pm
by User001
They use the B787 in summer and B757 in winter, so, like I say, I would have expected just the winter season to stop, but also missing out 3 months of the summer season, including the traditionally busy October half term, not cool.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:54 pm
by FriscoHeavy
1. How many days a week will the service run?
2. When will it be bookable on AA.com?

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:54 pm
by aa777lvr
DFW-KEF on a 752? Let's hope they have plenty of days where the KEF weather allows them to go N/A (no alternate), or it could be an interesting route to dispatch.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:02 pm
by enilria
I think AA's retaliation will struggle big time. It will hurt WW/FI, but AA will do much worse.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:06 pm
by commavia
Flighty wrote:
Do they forecast a profit? Hard to believe if so.


I'll believe it when I see it, but maybe it will work.

I agree that the level of lower-cost capacity between the U.S. and Iceland next summer is going to be eye-opening, but even with that, hub economics do work - airlines have proven it consistently, time and again. And AA can certainly pull in immense connecting traffic from across the U.S. onto this DFW-KEF flight. I, too, would probably have expected to see PHL-KEF first, but then, when I look at a map, it does seem like DFW is probably the hub with the most unique connecting flows that competitors cannot replicate or compete with.

A few years ago, I would have been even more highly skeptical of DFW-KEF, but then I was highly skeptical about DFW-AMS and, at least as of now, it looks like that route is - incredibly - going to a 777 next summer. ORD-BCN, too, appears to have been quite a success, and I strongly suspect that ORD-VCE will also do well. KEF has more competition than BCN or VCE, but overall, it's hard to see how it differs all that dramatically from those other markets - in that there is massive tourism demand, tightly concentrated during a relatively short window of a few months, at which time yields do rise and hub connectivity is quite valuable.

User001 wrote:
I'm surprised the MAN cut is so deep. I would have expected a May-Oct season (currently runs April-January), but June-Sept is very short!


Given the level of competitive capacity, and just the broader shift of the economic center of gravity of the UK more and more towards London and the southeast, it seems like the MAN-U.S. market is skewing increasingly leisure-oriented. AA and United are both now down to a single year-round destination (PHL and EWR, respectively), and Delta has exited the market entirely in favor of its JV partner Virgin Atlantic who serves two Delta hubs year-round (ATL and JFK) plus multiple other markets, most seasonal and all non-hub, and pretty much all leisure.

usairways85 wrote:
I think this could be more about flooding the market to knock at least one of the two FI, WW off of DFW-KEF if not both.


It does, indeed, seem hard to imagine DFW being able to profitably support three nonstop flights to Iceland. Similar to the Gulf carriers, it seems almost inevitable that ultimately at least one of these DFW-KEF carriers is going to blink. And historically, when AA enters a DFW longhaul market previously flown solely by a foreign flag carrier, AA ends up doing pretty well. Witness ICN, and more recently AMS.

jbs2886 wrote:
There seems to be a big pullback by AA of TATL flying on the 757. That could be the issue. Disappointing nonetheless. I'm an AA flyer in Chicago and would like to see more expansion (yes, we got BCN and getting VCE) of year-round flying.


I think this is all reflective of AA's far more opportunistic - seasonal - approach to the Atlantic (outside basically LHR/CDG) writ large, not just at ORD. The level of competition and capacity between the U.S. and Europe is stunning. And I think U.S. carriers in general are going to be increasingly focusing their capacity in peak seasons when demand is highest and the power of U.S. megahubs can be used to drive connecting yields that foreign competitors can't capture (or can't capture to the same extent). This may be happening a little more, and little sooner, at AA versus Delta or United because AA has a relatively smaller presence in the biggest (and probably one of the least seasonal) Europe O&D market, NYC.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:12 pm
by Cointrin330
Wierd route, though DL does fly MSP to KEF seasonally so noy entirely off and AA can probably fill a 757 from its largest hub but would it not make more sense to fly from PHL?

Either way seems like way too much capacity being trowb into this market. Someone will fail.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:13 pm
by texdravid
Zero players to three all in one year?
Let the bloodbath begin!
AA is not going to be one of the losers.
It will be one or both of the Icelandic carriers.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:18 pm
by Skyblue39
texdravid wrote:
Zero players to three all in one year?
Let the bloodbath begin!
AA is not going to be one of the losers.
It will be one or both of the Icelandic carriers.


You're American, of course you're going to say that AA will have runaway success..............

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:19 pm
by jfklganyc
What a joke. 3 players on this tiny route while you’re cutting 757 service between larger cities.

The other 2 airlines are using KEF as a cheap funnel for flights to Europe. The O and D is gravy.

What does AA have to look forward to?

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:23 pm
by jumbojet
raylee67 wrote:
Either the flights will go empty, or Iceland is going to be swamped with tourists



If I was a betting man, I'd say the AA flights will be mostly empty. It will probably be a non-rev free for all. Which in a way is probably good because the plane will probably have to out weight restricted due to the length of the flight and the equipment used.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:24 pm
by commavia
jfklganyc wrote:
What does AA have to look forward to?


Again, we'll see. AA may have the same thing to "look forward to" on DFW-KEF as it has on DFW-AMS and ORD-BCN - lots and lots of demand to a popular leisure destination during peak season, and from a hub where many of the connections have minimal competitive alternative. I don't know if DFW-KEF will work - but I don't think it's quite as crazy as some others seem to believe.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:26 pm
by stlgph
jfklganyc wrote:
What a joke. 3 players on this tiny route while you’re cutting 757 service between larger cities.

The other 2 airlines are using KEF as a cheap funnel for flights to Europe. The O and D is gravy.

What does AA have to look forward to?


Shuttling people out of southern California and Austin :)

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:33 pm
by Varsity1
jfklganyc wrote:
What a joke. 3 players on this tiny route while you’re cutting 757 service between larger cities.

The other 2 airlines are using KEF as a cheap funnel for flights to Europe. The O and D is gravy.

What does AA have to look forward to?


AA can pull people out of any city in the United States and connect to KEF.

DFW is a monster hub for AA compared to the dinky operation at KEF by WW and FI.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:33 pm
by RJNUT
SCQ83 wrote:
RJNUT wrote:
the good thing about the US3 now all going to Iceland is the ability of almost all small/mid size cities finally getting connectivity. With Icelandair ,unless you had AS or B6 connections, you were basically cutoff from one-stop ticketing/pricing to KEF


Could JetBlue fly from JFK or BOS to KEF in terms of range? Even if they already codeshare with Icelandair.



I assume they have equipment with that range to go to KEF themselves but I would think their TATL aspirations are to go clear to the UK and such ,once the newer LR equipment arrives

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:34 pm
by texl1649
I assume some good connections to Europe will be possible. London/Paris for like $120-150 round trip, right? Is this just AA trying to push WOW out of DFW (and SFO I suppose)?

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:36 pm
by SCQ83
Which is the current PDEW for DFW-KEF?

It will likely be the TATL with more carriers and lowest number of PDEW.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:51 pm
by MAH4546
jbs2886 wrote:
User001 wrote:
I'm surprised the MAN cut is so deep. I would have expected a May-Oct season (currently runs April-January), but June-Sept is very short!

But then again, when they insist on using a B757 in winter that can barely make the route in one go (lots of Bangor stops again recently), then I'm not sure what they were expecting to happen really.


There seems to be a big pullback by AA of TATL flying on the 757. That could be the issue. Disappointing nonetheless. I'm an AA flyer in Chicago and would like to see more expansion (yes, we got BCN and getting VCE) of year-round flying.


AA will be announcing a major expansion of lie-flat 757 flying in trans-con markets that will start around June.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:52 pm
by winginit
Skyblue39 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
Zero players to three all in one year?
Let the bloodbath begin!
AA is not going to be one of the losers.
It will be one or both of the Icelandic carriers.


You're American, of course you're going to say that AA will have runaway success..............


That's not really what was said, but let's play this out for a moment. For the record, I think all three carriers will bleed on this route.

The two Icelandic carriers will have to duke it out via price for the local market. Meanwhile, AA should be able to leverage TATL basic economy fares to at least appear competitive some of the time in that local marketplace while being able to flow passengers over DFW from spokes both large and small while commanding a premium for those flows. I'm again not saying that AA will even resemble profitability on this route, but I don't think they'll struggle like the Icelandic LCCs likely will.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:04 pm
by CarlosSi
I’m surprised. I didn’t think there would be very many new 757 routes announced from any airline (except Delta) considering they’re dropping from fleets, especially in American.

Although considering they’re being replaced on certain routes, means they can be moved to where they are needed, rather than MIA-MCO.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:05 pm
by BigGSFO
Here's the PR link:
http://news.aa.com/press-releases/press ... fault.aspx

It seems to be a daily service.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:15 pm
by chepos
I’m surprised with all these people on this thread going on about the miniscule size of the local market. Most of AA’s long haul routes out of DFW heavily depend on connections (with the possible exception of LHR and still). It’s the same with many of the major hubs. This route will be no different. Let’s not be stilly and pretend DL’s MSP KEF is full of local passengers.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:30 pm
by INFINITI329
DanDun wrote:
Also starting CLT-TUS on an A320, service starts Feb 15


I think this is smart add.. East coast destined passengers can avoid connecting through PHX and head straight to the east coast

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:53 pm
by commavia
winginit wrote:
The two Icelandic carriers will have to duke it out via price for the local market. Meanwhile, AA should be able to leverage TATL basic economy fares to at least appear competitive some of the time in that local marketplace while being able to flow passengers over DFW from spokes both large and small while commanding a premium for those flows. I'm again not saying that AA will even resemble profitability on this route, but I don't think they'll struggle like the Icelandic LCCs likely will.


^ This.

AA is clearly banking on its ability to generate a yield premium given the level of connecting traffic it can flow over DFW, particularly from smaller markets with lower volume but also lower competitive pressure, plus AA FFs. Many AA FFs who live in the central time zone or west, or possibly even east of that, who were planning to visit Iceland are now going to be more likely to connect onto this flight than to defect to an AA competitor where they won't get mileage accrual, elite status benefits, etc.

Will all of this ultimately yield "success?" I, too, am personally unsure. But, a with all things, it also very much depends on the definition of "success."

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:10 pm
by txjim
I don't understand AA's approach. Although I'm interested in Iceland, most of my searches have been centered on the lower fares to European cities (DFW-Copenhagen with a single stopover, $550 on WOW, $1400 AA/BA per Google Flights) which were not easy to obtain in the past. Every time I saw a mention of cheap airfare from an east-coast city, the cost of getting to the gateway eliminated any savings.

AA, however, will not have onward connections. I imagine they will not try to match WOW, will try to match Icelandair, and the experiment will be over in 2019.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:11 pm
by AASAP777
commavia wrote:
Many AA FFs who live in the central time zone or west, or possibly even east of that, who were planning to visit Iceland are now going to be more likely to connect onto this flight than to defect to an AA competitor where they won't get mileage accrual, elite status benefits, etc.



As I'm a former AAer, Commavia's point has a case here. Many people won't mind backtracking as long they earn enough points for EXP. It might not be a "prestige route" as LHR or CDG, but any opportunity should be taken. Not to mention the fact that it could be a good way to get good connections for mainland Europe. Let's not forget that BA and AY, both OW carriers, also serve KEF and it could be a good option for routings, not just to the mainland but to Asia (in HEL's case) should transpac flights look full.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:17 pm
by chepos
txjim wrote:
I don't understand AA's approach. Although I'm interested in Iceland, most of my searches have been centered on the lower fares to European cities (DFW-Copenhagen with a single stopover, $550 on WOW, $1400 AA/BA per Google Flights) which were not easy to obtain in the past. Every time I saw a mention of cheap airfare from an east-coast city, the cost of getting to the gateway eliminated any savings.

AA, however, will not have onward connections. I imagine they will not try to match WOW, will try to match Icelandair, and the experiment will be over in 2019.


You can say the same about FI and WW on the DFW end, no feed on the US side. They heavily depend on connections into and out of Europe.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:24 pm
by txjim
chepos wrote:
txjim wrote:
I don't understand AA's approach. Although I'm interested in Iceland, most of my searches have been centered on the lower fares to European cities (DFW-Copenhagen with a single stopover, $550 on WOW, $1400 AA/BA per Google Flights) which were not easy to obtain in the past. Every time I saw a mention of cheap airfare from an east-coast city, the cost of getting to the gateway eliminated any savings.

AA, however, will not have onward connections. I imagine they will not try to match WOW, will try to match Icelandair, and the experiment will be over in 2019.


You can say the same about FI and WW on the DFW end, no feed on the US side. They heavily depend on connections into and out of Europe.

True, but it is the 5th largest US Metropolitan area and a reasonable drive/short flight from Houston, the 6th.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:42 pm
by airbazar
texdravid wrote:
Zero players to three all in one year?
Let the bloodbath begin!
AA is not going to be one of the losers.
It will be one or both of the Icelandic carriers.

How so? WW and FI use KEF as a connecting hub to/from Europe. AA won't and will rely solely on trash yield, O&D passengers.
I don't see how AA can win here.
Varsity1 wrote:
AA can pull people out of any city in the United States and connect to KEF.

Except people aren't exactly GOING to KEF. They are connecting in KEF on the way to/from Europe and taking advantage of WW's and FI's stop-over program.
chepos wrote:
You can say the same about FI and WW on the DFW end, no feed on the US side. They heavily depend on connections into and out of Europe.

How exactly is AA going to get people to continental Europe via KEF? And at what yield with 2 stops?

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:00 pm
by commavia
airbazar wrote:
How so? WW and FI use KEF as a connecting hub to/from Europe. AA won't and will rely solely on trash yield, O&D passengers.


Yeah, Icelandair and WOW can rely on connections over KEF to Europe, just like AA can rely on connections over DFW to the U.S. AA certainly will not be relying "solely" on O&D traffic, and I actually doubt the yields will all be "trash." In fact, I suspect that DFW POS yields for AA will absolutely dwarf anything achievable by Icelandair and WOW just based on the sheer power of AAdvantage in the DFW local market. Beyond that, though, as many have said, I also think AA stands a decent shot at securing some fairly attractive yields from some of the behind-DFW markets where volume may be lower, but competition is also far less intense. Indeed, if this route has any shot of working, I suspect it is strongly on that basis. It remains to be seen if it will ultimately work.

airbazar wrote:
Except people aren't exactly GOING to KEF. They are connecting in KEF on the way to/from Europe and taking advantage of WW's and FI's stop-over program.


Huh? Lots of people are, exactly, "GOING to KEF." Iceland tourism arrivals continue to break records, and certain parts of the country, at certain times of the year, are basically bursting at the seams with tourists - to the point that it has kicked off a national dialogue about "how much tourism is too much tourism?" In that sense, Iceland is no different than just about any other transatlantic market - which is to say, it is fairly effortless to fill an airplane during the peak June-August (maybe May-October) period. The question is the yields. We'll see.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:06 pm
by TWFlyGuy
Given the cities WOW & Icelandair have picked up recently it will be interesting to see when they will add more east coast cities (i.e. RDU, CLT, BWI, ATL) which for WOW could be an opportunity to partner with a US carrier (maybe WN?).

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:19 pm
by tphuang
So this is basically demand of
Aa flyers from west coast and southwest to Iceland
Vs
Dallas area demand for Europe

Aa is going to loose big time here. I am definitely not going to fly to Iceland via Dallas and I can't imagine anyone on east coast would.

I would imagine there is quite a large demand in Dallas for low cost travel to Europe. We can check for people who travel just to Iceland fo vacation. I don't think that's a large number.

Re: AA adding DFW-KEF

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:27 pm
by Pe@rson
The irony of accusing the ME3 of swamping markets with capacity. Moving on... ;-)