HOLY CRAP THEY HAVE FULLY FLAT BUSINESS CLASS SEATS!!!

Really this looks like an incredibly competitive plane, in Business and Economy. Can't help but wonder if EK had something to do with this..

https://news.flydubai.com/flydubai-show ... ai-airshow

I guess so. FlyDubai used to be an LCC, but there's nothing left of that. Now that they merged with Emirates (which is an upper class brand) they have adapted to that service level.

Even though their Business Class is impressive. But do they really need it? they only have a few flights that are long enough to have this worth it. Anyways look nice. Hopefully the touch screens in Economy will have better responsiveness than the current ones

olba wrote:

Even though their Business Class is impressive. But do they really need it? they only have a few flights that are long enough to have this worth it. Anyways look nice. Hopefully the touch screens in Economy will have better responsiveness than the current ones

It would make them a competitive choice amongst the ME giants, and they probably will launch a ton more flights with 75 MAX's, which btw will also allow them to offer competitive pricing. Plus QR has lie-flat seats in their A320's that fly 30-minute hops.

Anyone know the seat count?

When will the Max enter service with FDB ? I believe that some of them are already painted and on the ground in AMM ? I know PRG was confirmed as a route. Any other current routes planned for the MAX when it starts commercial service ?

Definitely 12 J class flat beds as that I can see but cant make out how many in Y.

I guess they will lose one-two rows in Y class maximum from the current seat count...most likely one only.

FlyDubai b737Max Business Class



https://twitter.com/News_Cars18/status/ ... 6569148416

behramjee wrote:

Definitely 12 J class flat beds as that I can see but cant make out how many in Y.

I guess they will lose one-two rows in Y class maximum from the current seat count...most likely one only.

Nope, it's 10 in 3 rows. At least according to AustBT: https://www.ausbt.com.au/lie-flat-busin ... e-they-are

behramjee wrote:

Definitely 12 J class flat beds as that I can see but cant make out how many in Y.

I guess they will lose one-two rows in Y class maximum from the current seat count...most likely one only.

If you look closely at pics - it’s 2-1-2

worldranger wrote:

behramjee wrote:

Definitely 12 J class flat beds as that I can see but cant make out how many in Y.

I guess they will lose one-two rows in Y class maximum from the current seat count...most likely one only.

If you look closely at pics - it’s 2-1-2

huh? what is 2-1-2? Its a narrow body.

Slash787 wrote:

worldranger wrote:

behramjee wrote:

Definitely 12 J class flat beds as that I can see but cant make out how many in Y.

I guess they will lose one-two rows in Y class maximum from the current seat count...most likely one only.

If you look closely at pics - it’s 2-1-2

huh? what is 2-1-2? Its a narrow body.

You need to look at the picture to understand. Its 2-2 (first row), then 1-1(second row), then 2-2 again (third row).

olba wrote:

Even though their Business Class is impressive. But do they really need it? they only have a few flights that are long enough to have this worth it. Anyways look nice. Hopefully the touch screens in Economy will have better responsiveness than the current ones

The article says

flydubai’s new Boeing 737 MAX 8s will initially be deployed on the furthest points on the carrier’s network. Destinations including Bangkok, Prague, Yekaterinburg and Zanzibar will be among the first to be served by the MAX 8.

Those are some 6 hour routes so lie flat may be worthwhile. The MAXs will used on the longest flights in the network.

817Dreamliiner wrote:

Slash787 wrote:

worldranger wrote:

If you look closely at pics - it’s 2-1-2

huh? what is 2-1-2? Its a narrow body.

You need to look at the picture to understand. Its 2-2 (first row), then 1-1(second row), then 2-2 again (third row).

Ah, I get it now, its something like the Mint Class on Jet Blue

Is this 2-2 then 1-1 then 2-2 a la MINT?

OK, so lie flat. I have to correct a post in another thread.

Same seat layout as Mint... but the footwells for the single seats look really tight!

Awesome! I liked the colours and the quality it appear to have.

Slash787 wrote:

817Dreamliiner wrote:

Slash787 wrote:

huh? what is 2-1-2? Its a narrow body.

You need to look at the picture to understand. Its 2-2 (first row), then 1-1(second row), then 2-2 again (third row).

Ah, I get it now, its something like the Mint Class on Jet Blue

MORE like aer lingus’s 752 business class. Still looks sharp and comfy.

This clearly shows that NB flying doesn't really need to be crap if airlines are willing to invest some $$$ in the hardware..... Well done FlyDubai!

I wonder how many Y seats this will have. If all they did was lose 2 J seats, it makes you wonder if the US3 might try a cabin like this and look into any TATL flights or South American flights with a Max 8. UA and DL could look into this for their premium transcons if they don't go for the A321 or 73X on that route. AC could also look into a TATL subfleet. I figured we might see this on a -9 or -10 but am surprised to see it on a -8.

tjh8402 wrote:

I wonder how many Y seats this will have. If all they did was lose 2 J seats, it makes you wonder if the US3 might try a cabin like this and look into any TATL flights or South American flights with a Max 8. UA and DL could look into this for their premium transcons if they don't go for the A321 or 73X on that route. AC could also look into a TATL subfleet. I figured we might see this on a -9 or -10 but am surprised to see it on a -8.

Does AC have flatbed seats on any of their short hop TATLs?

stl07 wrote:

tjh8402 wrote:

I wonder how many Y seats this will have. If all they did was lose 2 J seats, it makes you wonder if the US3 might try a cabin like this and look into any TATL flights or South American flights with a Max 8. UA and DL could look into this for their premium transcons if they don't go for the A321 or 73X on that route. AC could also look into a TATL subfleet. I figured we might see this on a -9 or -10 but am surprised to see it on a -8.

Does AC have flatbed seats on any of their short hop TATLs?

I don't think they have lie flats on any of their narrowbodies. If the route has minimal cargo and the airports aren't slot restricted, flying 2 738 Maxs is probably more cost effective than a single 763. it also delivers the always desirable greater frequency.

Newbiepilot wrote:

olba wrote:

Even though their Business Class is impressive. But do they really need it? they only have a few flights that are long enough to have this worth it. Anyways look nice. Hopefully the touch screens in Economy will have better responsiveness than the current ones

The article says

flydubai’s new Boeing 737 MAX 8s will initially be deployed on the furthest points on the carrier’s network. Destinations including Bangkok, Prague, Yekaterinburg and Zanzibar will be among the first to be served by the MAX 8.

Those are some 6 hour routes so lie flat may be worthwhile. The MAXs will used on the longest flights in the network.

And I've had a few FlyDubai flights that, despite being short (3-5 hours), were in the middle of the night. A lie flat seat would have been wonderful to get a couple hours of sleep.

stl07 wrote:

tjh8402 wrote:

I wonder how many Y seats this will have. If all they did was lose 2 J seats, it makes you wonder if the US3 might try a cabin like this and look into any TATL flights or South American flights with a Max 8. UA and DL could look into this for their premium transcons if they don't go for the A321 or 73X on that route. AC could also look into a TATL subfleet. I figured we might see this on a -9 or -10 but am surprised to see it on a -8.

Does AC have flatbed seats on any of their short hop TATLs?

They only have 1 TATL on a narrowbody right now, and it is their only TATL without lieflats as well. (Not including Rouge) As it stands, the initial TATL max 8 flying will be in a normal configured aircraft.

whywhyzee wrote:

stl07 wrote:

tjh8402 wrote:

I wonder how many Y seats this will have. If all they did was lose 2 J seats, it makes you wonder if the US3 might try a cabin like this and look into any TATL flights or South American flights with a Max 8. UA and DL could look into this for their premium transcons if they don't go for the A321 or 73X on that route. AC could also look into a TATL subfleet. I figured we might see this on a -9 or -10 but am surprised to see it on a -8.

Does AC have flatbed seats on any of their short hop TATLs?

They only have 1 TATL on a narrowbody right now, and it is their only TATL without lieflats as well. (Not including Rouge) As it stands, the initial TATL max 8 flying will be in a normal configured aircraft.

I realize that. I wasn't talking about the present. I was more thinking into the future and wondering if there are premium TATL routes that require lie flat seats but are with the range of a Max 8, and if that might make a subfleet with that sort of cabin worth doing, especially if it could replace widebody traffic. 2 738s could replace a single 767 or A330. I just don't know if the economics would work (how 2x 140-150 seat 738s compare to a single 763 or a333) and if AC has the sort of routes that would work on.

tjh8402 wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Does AC have flatbed seats on any of their short hop TATLs?

They only have 1 TATL on a narrowbody right now, and it is their only TATL without lieflats as well. (Not including Rouge) As it stands, the initial TATL max 8 flying will be in a normal configured aircraft.

I realize that. I wasn't talking about the present. I was more thinking into the future and wondering if there are premium TATL routes that require lie flat seats but are with the range of a Max 8, and if that might make a subfleet with that sort of cabin worth doing, especially if it could replace widebody traffic. 2 738s could replace a single 767 or A330. I just don't know if the economics would work (how 2x 140-150 seat 738s compare to a single 763 or a333) and if AC has the sort of routes that would work on.

I apologize, I misunderstood the original post. There aren’t many routes operating on the 767 TATL anymore, I believe it is just YOW/YHZ-LHR. If I had to speculate, these will more then likely be replaced by 797’s going foreward, or perhaps A321neoLR’s (I’m literally just passing on info from inside friends, so before I get roasted over the coals for suggesting it, save it). They are keeping 5 767’s into the next decade, these can likely take care of these flights. AC operates a good deal of widebodies on premium domestic and transcontinental routes, I don’t think they really need a subfleet of 737max with more lieflats. There will be more TATL 737max routes, but they will be relatively short, and relatively underserved routes, the lack of lieflats won’t hurt them. The next aircraft size up might.

In any case, to comment on FlyDubai, the cabins look spectacular, but that’s a lot of real estate to take up with only 10 seats. They are going to have to charge a fair premium to make up for that, and given their network, I don’t know how well it’s going to work.

This is neat to see, and I hope that it is a trend setter among competitors operating the 737MAX. Would love to see Ethiopian add such lie flat seats on its 737MAXs, given that it flies its 73s to far flung places like Johannesburg, Ouagadougou, Niamey in addition to the Middle East and India, with some of these flights operating overnight.

olba wrote:

Even though their Business Class is impressive. But do they really need it? they only have a few flights that are long enough to have this worth it. Anyways look nice. Hopefully the touch screens in Economy will have better responsiveness than the current ones

It looks like they have evolved into a full service airline. Their partnership with EK will demand such class of service. They also tend to fly into oil rich countries where demand exists.

berari wrote:

olba wrote:

Even though their Business Class is impressive. But do they really need it? they only have a few flights that are long enough to have this worth it. Anyways look nice. Hopefully the touch screens in Economy will have better responsiveness than the current ones

It looks like they have evolved into a full service airline. Their partnership with EK will demand such class of service. They also tend to fly into oil rich countries where demand exists.

They also fly into places like Somaliland. I wonder if they will keep some without lie-flats for low price seats.

ahj2000 wrote:

berari wrote:

olba wrote:

Even though their Business Class is impressive. But do they really need it? they only have a few flights that are long enough to have this worth it. Anyways look nice. Hopefully the touch screens in Economy will have better responsiveness than the current ones

It looks like they have evolved into a full service airline. Their partnership with EK will demand such class of service. They also tend to fly into oil rich countries where demand exists.

They also fly into places like Somaliland. I wonder if they will keep some without lie-flats for low price seats.

It is my understanding that obscure places, with not much foreign service and security concerns have the potential for high J fares.

MoKa777 wrote:

ahj2000 wrote:

berari wrote:

It looks like they have evolved into a full service airline. Their partnership with EK will demand such class of service. They also tend to fly into oil rich countries where demand exists.

They also fly into places like Somaliland. I wonder if they will keep some without lie-flats for low price seats.

It is my understanding that obscure places, with not much foreign service and security concerns have the potential for high J fares.

I agree. Locations with low per capita GDP often have high income inequality. Without a middle class to fill economy seats and maintain frequent service, the wealthy personal and business travel often has very high yields. For comparisons sake 20-30 years ago, the percentage of seats on domestic first class seats in India was much higher than it is today. As the middle class grows, the percentage of business class seats needed drops along with yields.

I think 10 lie flat business seats likely makes sense.

whywhyzee wrote:

tjh8402 wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

They only have 1 TATL on a narrowbody right now, and it is their only TATL without lieflats as well. (Not including Rouge) As it stands, the initial TATL max 8 flying will be in a normal configured aircraft.

I realize that. I wasn't talking about the present. I was more thinking into the future and wondering if there are premium TATL routes that require lie flat seats but are with the range of a Max 8, and if that might make a subfleet with that sort of cabin worth doing, especially if it could replace widebody traffic. 2 738s could replace a single 767 or A330. I just don't know if the economics would work (how 2x 140-150 seat 738s compare to a single 763 or a333) and if AC has the sort of routes that would work on.

I apologize, I misunderstood the original post. There aren’t many routes operating on the 767 TATL anymore, I believe it is just YOW/YHZ-LHR. If I had to speculate, these will more then likely be replaced by 797’s going foreward, or perhaps A321neoLR’s (I’m literally just passing on info from inside friends, so before I get roasted over the coals for suggesting it, save it). They are keeping 5 767’s into the next decade, these can likely take care of these flights. AC operates a good deal of widebodies on premium domestic and transcontinental routes, I don’t think they really need a subfleet of 737max with more lieflats. There will be more TATL 737max routes, but they will be relatively short, and relatively underserved routes, the lack of lieflats won’t hurt them. The next aircraft size up might.

In any case, to comment on FlyDubai, the cabins look spectacular, but that’s a lot of real estate to take up with only 10 seats. They are going to have to charge a fair premium to make up for that, and given their network, I don’t know how well it’s going to work.

All good. I appreciate the info. I wasn't too familiar with AC's TATL routes so wasn't sure what was on what. their proximity to Europe made them seem a more likely candidate for this sort of premium Max than US airlines who could be potentially pushing the range more. I was looking on Flight Aware and actually surprised by how many sub 4000nm flights are 77Ws and A333s. I'm surprised AC hasn't jumped on the 78X yet but that's a whole different off topic discussion.

I never understood why they would put two lie-flat seats together. What happens if the other passenger that is closed in by the window needs to use the restroom? That seems a little inconvenient.

aviationjunky wrote:

I never understood why they would put two lie-flat seats together. What happens if the other passenger that is closed in by the window needs to use the restroom? That seems a little inconvenient.

The same thing that happens in Y happens. One politely asks, or in more recent experiences, one jabs you and you are rudely awakened.

Let's recall that FlyDubai is not exactly your luxury airline where you can expect aisle access from every J seat. The aircraft simply doesn't allow it, and the economics certainly won't either. If that's important to a customer, they can fly another airline where possible.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe anyone has developed a dense space efficient all aisle access flatbed J seat for narrowbodies yet. If you want that you need to go 1-1, which means either a small J count or a lot of floorspace used at the expense of Y.

Has anybody ever installed (or considered installing) a herringbone layout J class on a narrowbody? I don't like them in the slightest but it does seem a way of achieving all-aisle access without going for ridiculously-low density.

aviationjunky wrote:

I never understood why they would put two lie-flat seats together. What happens if the other passenger that is closed in by the window needs to use the restroom? That seems a little inconvenient.

That's still extremely common in J on many airlines. It was a big improvement over what came before it.

Polot wrote:

I could be wrong, but I don't believe anyone has developed a dense space efficient all aisle access flatbed J seat for narrowbodies yet. If you want that you need to go 1-1, which means either a small J count or a lot of floorspace used at the expense of Y.

The only way I can think of is to do a staggered setup maybe like JAL J or UA Polaris does with their window seats.

aviationjunky wrote:

I never understood why they would put two lie-flat seats together. What happens if the other passenger that is closed in by the window needs to use the restroom? That seems a little inconvenient.

Probably the same thing they would do if they were flying in a window (or middle ) seat in J on an EK 777...

EK is not the premium airline that everyone on this thread makes it out to be.

XAM2175 wrote:

Has anybody ever installed (or considered installing) a herringbone layout J class on a narrowbody? I don't like them in the slightest but it does seem a way of achieving all-aisle access without going for ridiculously-low density.

Check out the AA transcon A321s

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ameri ... 21_new.php

AA777223 wrote:

aviationjunky wrote:

I never understood why they would put two lie-flat seats together. What happens if the other passenger that is closed in by the window needs to use the restroom? That seems a little inconvenient.

Probably the same thing they would do if they were flying in a window (or middle ) seat in J on an EK 777...

I was just going to say the same thing

AA777223 wrote:

XAM2175 wrote:

Has anybody ever installed (or considered installing) a herringbone layout J class on a narrowbody? I don't like them in the slightest but it does seem a way of achieving all-aisle access without going for ridiculously-low density.

Check out the AA transcon A321s

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ameri ... 21_new.php

Yes AA has the Weber Cirrus seat in first class on the A321s. It wastes a lot of space with an extra wide aisle. The B/E Diamond seat in business class on the A321s is what AA, UA and DL all use on their 757 transatlantic flights and is much more space efficient while still offering fully flat seats.

The wasted space from all aisle access probably isn't worth it. If someone really was bothered by having someone next to them, they can sit in row 2 on FlyDubai.

tjh8402 wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

tjh8402 wrote:

I realize that. I wasn't talking about the present. I was more thinking into the future and wondering if there are premium TATL routes that require lie flat seats but are with the range of a Max 8, and if that might make a subfleet with that sort of cabin worth doing, especially if it could replace widebody traffic. 2 738s could replace a single 767 or A330. I just don't know if the economics would work (how 2x 140-150 seat 738s compare to a single 763 or a333) and if AC has the sort of routes that would work on.

I apologize, I misunderstood the original post. There aren’t many routes operating on the 767 TATL anymore, I believe it is just YOW/YHZ-LHR. If I had to speculate, these will more then likely be replaced by 797’s going foreward, or perhaps A321neoLR’s (I’m literally just passing on info from inside friends, so before I get roasted over the coals for suggesting it, save it). They are keeping 5 767’s into the next decade, these can likely take care of these flights. AC operates a good deal of widebodies on premium domestic and transcontinental routes, I don’t think they really need a subfleet of 737max with more lieflats. There will be more TATL 737max routes, but they will be relatively short, and relatively underserved routes, the lack of lieflats won’t hurt them. The next aircraft size up might.

In any case, to comment on FlyDubai, the cabins look spectacular, but that’s a lot of real estate to take up with only 10 seats. They are going to have to charge a fair premium to make up for that, and given their network, I don’t know how well it’s going to work.

All good. I appreciate the info. I wasn't too familiar with AC's TATL routes so wasn't sure what was on what. their proximity to Europe made them seem a more likely candidate for this sort of premium Max than US airlines who could be potentially pushing the range more. I was looking on Flight Aware and actually surprised by how many sub 4000nm flights are 77Ws and A333s. I'm surprised AC hasn't jumped on the 78X yet but that's a whole different off topic discussion.

They have 30 787’s with 7 more on order, and options for 23 more.

10J 156Y