Emirates places order for 40 787-10's

qf789 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:32 am

Just In

Emirates has placed an order for 40 787-10's

https://twitter.com/emirates/status/929640845556494336

qf789 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:44 am

Deliveries to start 2022, Boeing says commitment, Emirates says firm order

Boeing press release

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2017-11-12- ... reamliners

Render of EK 787-10

https://twitter.com/emirates/status/929643289766191104

ACATROYAL · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:45 am

Well lots of people expected this order so its not that surprising. We will now wait and see if Emirates orders more A380's to save the day for Airbus...

MrHMSH · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:48 am

Massive boost for the 78X and Boeing, and a fantastic plane for EK. Looks pretty slick to boot. Seems a bit on the small side though, maybe we're looking at a split....

parapente · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:50 am

Their press release quotes Emirates as saying that some of them will be for replacements (to keep young fleet) - replacing what?

PM · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:51 am

I wonder if the plan is still to go with RR. If so, and if the A380 order comes through, bit of a pay day for Derby!

Strato2 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:53 am

Totally expected. If they were serious about the XWB they would not have cancelled the order in the first place.

Momo1435 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:55 am

It was on and off and now definitely on this year for this order. Congrats to Boeing and Emirates.

With 2022 deliveries they clearly didn't want to wait 2 more years until the next Dubai Airshow to announce this, they didn't want another Air Show without multiple large orders (A380 order still to come).

Momo1435 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:58 am

Another image from Boeing's twitter.

https://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/sta ... 2146156544

ps.
That's a 787-9.... mistake? or something that hasn't been revealed yet?

Julie77W · Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:03 am

This is fantastic. Well done Boeing!

zeke · Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:06 am

Good news for EK, an order people has said was in place for some time.

The number ordered just seems too small for their fleet size. I am half expecting a lot more, maybe they will be looking to split this.

qf789 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:08 am

Momo1435 wrote:
Another image from Boeing's twitter.

https://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/sta ... 2146156544

ps.
That's a 787-9.... mistake? or something that hasn't been revealed yet?

Good pick up, according to EK's press release they will be configured in both 2 and 3 class aircraft ranging from 240 to 330 seats. 240 seems to be too small of a number for a 787-10

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... i-airshow#

PW100 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:12 am

Very exciting order for EK, rather than just more vanilla A380 . . . :-)

This should open up quiite some new routes for them.

I wonder, if this deal would delay/extend 777X deliveries. It's hard to see how DXB can handle all these upcoming deliveries : 150 777X, 42 A380s, with another rumoured 36-38 in the pipeline. Sure, there will be many replacements, but that is basically covered already with 777X and more A380s. They would not need 787 for that.

DWC will not be ready for EK before 2028. Something got to give somewhere . . .

KarelXWB · Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:33 am

zeke wrote:
The number ordered just seems too small for their fleet size. I am half expecting a lot more, maybe they will be looking to split this.

Hence the 60 options.

ap305 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:56 am

Great order for Boeing... I guess for Airbus with the configuration of the a359 they will continue to win some(like lh) and lose some(like ek)....

MoKa777 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:09 am

As much as I love the A350, the 78J makes more sense in this case. Congrats to all involved.

Slash787 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:15 am

2022 is so far away, I wish they took the birds earlier.

kasimir · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:16 am

parapente wrote:
Their press release quotes Emirates as saying that some of them will be for replacements (to keep young fleet) - replacing what?

I think that part of the order is to replace the 77L for the ULH ops

Slash787 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:17 am

kasimir wrote:
parapente wrote:
Their press release quotes Emirates as saying that some of them will be for replacements (to keep young fleet) - replacing what?

I think that part of the order is to replace the 77L for the ULH ops

777-8 is the replacement for the 77L for ULH.

No way 787-10 is for ULH, B777-300ER has more range than the B787-10

zkojq · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:26 am

The growth plans at EK seemed rather aggressive, even before this order. I guess 2022 is still a while away.

Arion640 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:27 am

After A330 retirement, this needed to happen.

Is it possible for orders to be announced tomorrow? A380 may still be yet to come.

wj888 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:27 am

Interested to see how they configure it...slightly disappointed personally as I was hoping they'd steer towards the A350, having experienced the 787 and A350 with QR I found the A350 more comfortable. Will keep an open mind..

Bricktop · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:46 am

A little off on the number, but as I said in the EK A380 order thread..

Bricktop wrote:
An order for another 30 A388's is a nice score for Airbus.

Also a nice sop for the 70 B78J's they order as well.

Bricktop · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:52 am

Strato2 wrote:
Totally expected. If they were serious about the XWB they would not have cancelled the order in the first place.

I don't think that's true at all. The A350-1000 supposedly changed over what EK was looking for at that time. The A359 and A35X are both superb and competitive airplanes. I am a bit concerned about the size of backlog EK has with Boeing. ~200 widebodies between the 78J and the 77X is a shitload of frames.

OA940 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:11 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
Massive boost for the 78X and Boeing, and a fantastic plane for EK. Looks pretty slick to boot. Seems a bit on the small side though, maybe we're looking at a split....

They have 60 options as well, and keep in mind that the smallest plane in EK's fleet is the 77W (they are using all of their 77L's for ULH), so a smaller aircraft would allow for service to smaller airports with less demand, and thus liberate the 777's for even more expansion. It's kind of genius. And yes, it is an amazing deal for both EK and Boeing.

qf789 wrote:
Good pick up, according to EK's press release they will be configured in both 2 and 3 class aircraft ranging from 240 to 330 seats. 240 seems to be too small of a number for a 787-10

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... i-airshow#

240 does seem like very little for the 787-10. I assume that means they'd use the ones configured like that with a premium-heavy configuration. I would guess around 9 F (with the new cabin), 40-44 J (with the J to be launched by the 777X which will have direct aisle access) and less than 200 Y, probably for premium markets. 330 seems like a bit much for that size, but we don't know exact configs for the -10, so maybe it's doable. I would assume for those they'd fill the space between L/R1 and L/R2 with J and the rest Y. They'd probably use the latter mainly for expansion. Also that 787-9 could very well join the fleet. I for one hope it does.

fcogafa · Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:12 pm

qf789 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Another image from Boeing's twitter.

https://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/sta ... 2146156544

ps.
That's a 787-9.... mistake? or something that hasn't been revealed yet?

Good pick up, according to EK's press release they will be configured in both 2 and 3 class aircraft ranging from 240 to 330 seats. 240 seems to be too small of a number for a 787-10

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... i-airshow#

Flightglobal quotes 'Boeing says the agreement includes conversion rights to swap to the smaller 787-9.'

Revelation · Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:01 pm

Slash787 wrote:
2022 is so far away, I wish they took the birds earlier.

Presumably all the other customers ahead of them say they can't.

In early September we read from Leeham ( https://leehamnews.com/2017/09/18/asses ... tion-rate/ ):

Boeing last week announced it will take the production rate of the 787 from 12/mo to 14/mo in 2019.

The decision to do so was couched in a strong backlog and strong forthcoming demand by CEO Dennis Muilenburg at a Morgan Stanley conference.

But analysts think the move is more about boosting free cash flow and hitting margins than it is about demand.

Summary:
• Boeing sees demand surging from 2019 for widebodies generally and the 787 specifically.
• Muilenburg says Boeing is working “skyline” positions in 2019 and 2020 (LNC saw these years as already filled).
• Widebody jets hitting 25 years old early next decade.
• Airbus concurs.

Seems Dennis knew more about demand than those analysts did, but the free cash flow will look good too.

carlokiii · Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:16 pm

Finally an end to repetitive threads on EK/787 speculations that took a life on its own when the A350 order was canceled. Nice coup for the largest Dreamliner.

LSZH34 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:21 pm

Massive Loss for the A350, but the 787-10 makes more sense…

emiratesdriver · Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:26 pm

carlokiii wrote:
Finally an end to repetitive threads on EK/787 speculations that took a life on its own when the A350 order was canceled. Nice coup for the largest Dreamliner.

Absolutely, like I’ve been saying for a while, the 787 manuals wouldn’t have been maintained by EK if there wasn’t something afoot. Will be interested to see the engineering and performance specs when Boeing complete their test phase.
From a company perspective, this is the airframe that’s needed, yes there might be some more 380s on the way but I’m going to go out on a limb and state that as of now the 380 fleet needs to number between 70-80 at the most, which is where I believe it will head in the next few years as airframes are retired and disposed of.
This is the direction the company will continue to head as it maximises yield and lowers cost through capacity and airframe discipline based on the guidance issued by our head man.

scotron11 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:29 pm

To coin a phase: There were " hints, allegations and things left unsaid", but all reports were on the possible A380 deal, nothing on this one, in fact, most had thought this deal would be delayed for a while. Congrats to Boeing and Emirates, 1st big announcement at the show! Wonder who will get the engine contract?

KarelXWB · Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:37 pm

scotron11 wrote:
Wonder who will get the engine contract?

Tim Clark once mentioned Rolls-Royce as the preferred engine choice. Let's see if he has changed this mind.

FoxtrotSierra · Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:53 pm

I guess we're not seeing a new livery before 2022. The current scheme is a mainstay brand, so I guess they're right not to mess with a good thing.

seahawk · Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:56 pm

Beautiful order for Boeing.

enzo011 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:02 pm

And one of the least surprising orders goes to Boeing. EK cancelled the A350, 50 A359's along with 20 A35K's, and people were seriously considering that they would order the A350 again? I would guess the stories that the A350 was still in the running was to get some more discounts from Boeing.

lightsaber · Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:32 pm

What is EK replacing? The 77Es, 773s, A340s, and everything else in the size range is gone. The 77L will be replaced by the 778... Or is that just marketing speak.

KarelXWB wrote:
zeke wrote:
The number ordered just seems too small for their fleet size. I am half expecting a lot more, maybe they will be looking to split this.

Hence the 60 options.

DXB has little room to grow, so 40 now and 60 later makes sense. I'm just curious about Boeing's wording. What wiggle words did EK insist upon that make this less than a firm order by SEC standards? In other words, why would Boeing court trouble calling this a firm order at this time?

Revelation wrote:
Seems Dennis knew more about demand than those analysts did, but the free cash flow will look good too.

I suspect we'll hear more about additional orders.

Lightsaber

ElroyJetson · Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:52 pm

Wow....a complete vindication for Boeing and all the naysayers who said this order would never happen....particularly those who said the order announcement would never happen at the Dubai Airshow.

The 787-10 is an amazing aircraft. EK made an outstanding decision. Congrats to them and Boeing.

LPSHobby · Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:05 pm

are these planes to replace oher planes? if yes, wich ones? or are they for expansion, not replacing other aircrafts?

lightsaber · Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:18 pm

fcogafa wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Another image from Boeing's twitter.

https://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/sta ... 2146156544

ps.
That's a 787-9.... mistake? or something that hasn't been revealed yet?

Good pick up, according to EK's press release they will be configured in both 2 and 3 class aircraft ranging from 240 to 330 seats. 240 seems to be too small of a number for a 787-10

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... i-airshow#

Flightglobal quotes 'Boeing says the agreement includes conversion rights to swap to the smaller 787-9.'

Oh, there is a hedged bet... So now let the speculation begin on how many may be converted to the 789?

Lightsaber

Polot · Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:22 pm

My guess any 789s they get will act like the 77Ls currently in the fleet, but for regional instead of ULH use. For those missions just outsize of the 787-10's comfort zone where the 77W/779 will be too large.

bigjku · Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:30 pm

lightsaber wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
qf789 wrote:

Good pick up, according to EK's press release they will be configured in both 2 and 3 class aircraft ranging from 240 to 330 seats. 240 seems to be too small of a number for a 787-10

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... i-airshow#

Flightglobal quotes 'Boeing says the agreement includes conversion rights to swap to the smaller 787-9.'

Oh, there is a hedged bet... So now let the speculation begin on how many may be converted to the 789?

Lightsaber

Seems to make sense to me. 789 can open routes for larger airframes using its range. 787-10 can operate routes that don’t need the range capabilities of a 77X. The whole thing kind of works well together from where I sit.

ikolkyo · Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:39 pm

I’ve always thought a 789/78X combo would work wonders for EK, glad to see it start to come to fruition!

migair54 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:10 pm

Polot wrote:
My guess any 789s they get will act like the 77Ls currently in the fleet, but for regional instead of ULH use. For those missions just outsize of the 787-10's comfort zone where the 77W/779 will be too large.

The current use of the B77L is a bit odd, it seems like they planes do not have a real mission and they end up almost everywhere, so different places like KHI, HKG, FLL, INC...
I think some of the B787 will be used to open up some routes and to do some regional flights, apparently some of them are going to be in 2 class configuration, so I guess they will be used in same flights 2 class B777 are used currently but in a more economical way.

We could see some current triangular or tag on routes going separate, but we are still 5 years away, so things will change and it's difficult to forecast from now.
One of the issues I was thinking about is the space in DXB, right now is very busy, with part of the terminal 3 empty because parkings are too small for the current fleet, so I can see some expansion but not enough to have 40 extra planes in the fleet, so I am not sure how are they going to manage, some days planes are parked even in the royal wing area and in the cargo area too.

OA940 wrote:
240 does seem like very little for the 787-10. I assume that means they'd use the ones configured like that with a premium-heavy configuration. I would guess around 9 F (with the new cabin), 40-44 J (with the J to be launched by the 777X which will have direct aisle access) and less than 200 Y, probably for premium markets. 330 seems like a bit much for that size, but we don't know exact configs for the -10, so maybe it's doable. I would assume for those they'd fill the space between L/R1 and L/R2 with J and the rest Y. They'd probably use the latter mainly for expansion. Also that 787-9 could very well join the fleet. I for one hope it does.

I just read today that EK is planning to introduce a new business class in the future, similar to the one EK has on the A380, so that will change the number of business class seats, but I guess it will be close to 36-40 and around 200 in economy and 6 in F.

CX747 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:12 pm

Congratulations to Boeing and Emirates. A very nice blue chip customer for the 787 to gain. The possibility of 100 787s is astounding. I would assume RR engines but I've been wrong before. I'll pull for the hometown GE folks.

chiki · Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:16 pm

What percentage of EK network will the 7810 be able to cover, i am sure this has been discussed before but not sure where.

Newbiepilot · Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
2022 is so far away, I wish they took the birds earlier.

Presumably all the other customers ahead of them say they can't.

In early September we read from Leeham ( https://leehamnews.com/2017/09/18/asses ... tion-rate/ ):

Boeing last week announced it will take the production rate of the 787 from 12/mo to 14/mo in 2019.

The decision to do so was couched in a strong backlog and strong forthcoming demand by CEO Dennis Muilenburg at a Morgan Stanley conference.

But analysts think the move is more about boosting free cash flow and hitting margins than it is about demand.

Summary:
• Boeing sees demand surging from 2019 for widebodies generally and the 787 specifically.
• Muilenburg says Boeing is working “skyline” positions in 2019 and 2020 (LNC saw these years as already filled).
• Widebody jets hitting 25 years old early next decade.
• Airbus concurs.

Seems Dennis knew more about demand than those analysts did, but the free cash flow will look good too.

Thanks for reminding us. Going up to 14 a month makes a lot more sense once Boeing knew they'd get a deal from Emirates. 2017 has been a good sales year for the 787.

chiki · Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:38 pm

I think is order of 40 +60(i have not seen any statement to confirm this) will push other like BA to make top -up to secure slots, if there is a demand surge i doubt the 14/mth will meet this

migair54 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:47 pm

chiki wrote:
What percentage of EK network will the 7810 be able to cover, i am sure this has been discussed before but not sure where.

Everything except some USA LAX, SFO, FLL, IAH, DFW, Brazil and New Zealand, so I guess more than 95%, However I don't think we will see the B787-10 in any ULR from DXB.

lightsaber · Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:02 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:

Thanks for reminding us. Going up to 14 a month makes a lot more sense once Boeing knew they'd get a deal from Emirates. 2017 has been a good sales year for the 787.

Prior to this order, 83 per Wikipedia (not yet with Emirates order, again as Boeing made it sound like a conditional order that the SEC probably won't let them book as firm; I'm sure this order will happen, but probably import/export bank must confirm and a few other details.

There are currently 171 787-10 orders. I wonder how many EK 787s will be the 789 and how many the 787-10? I had hopes of firm orders to bring the 787-10 over 200 at the Dubai air show.

Lightsaber

OA940 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:16 pm

migair54 wrote:
OA940 wrote:
240 does seem like very little for the 787-10. I assume that means they'd use the ones configured like that with a premium-heavy configuration. I would guess around 9 F (with the new cabin), 40-44 J (with the J to be launched by the 777X which will have direct aisle access) and less than 200 Y, probably for premium markets. 330 seems like a bit much for that size, but we don't know exact configs for the -10, so maybe it's doable. I would assume for those they'd fill the space between L/R1 and L/R2 with J and the rest Y. They'd probably use the latter mainly for expansion. Also that 787-9 could very well join the fleet. I for one hope it does.

I just read today that EK is planning to introduce a new business class in the future, similar to the one EK has on the A380, so that will change the number of business class seats, but I guess it will be close to 36-40 and around 200 in economy and 6 in F.

I don't think they'll do similar to the A380, since that is a decade old now, imagine then. I think they'll find something else. Of course it'll have direct aisle access and that minibar.

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