Emirates places order for 40 787-10's

817Dreamliiner · Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:25 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:

Thanks for reminding us. Going up to 14 a month makes a lot more sense once Boeing knew they'd get a deal from Emirates. 2017 has been a good sales year for the 787.

Prior to this order, 83 per Wikipedia (not yet with Emirates order, again as Boeing made it sound like a conditional order that the SEC probably won't let them book as firm; I'm sure this order will happen, but probably import/export bank must confirm and a few other details.

There are currently 171 787-10 orders. I wonder how many EK 787s will be the 789 and how many the 787-10? I had hopes of firm orders to bring the 787-10 over 200 at the Dubai air show.

Lightsaber

The deal as it stands right now is for 40 787-10s, so it will be over 200 once its firmed.

waly777 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:30 pm

qf789 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Another image from Boeing's twitter.

https://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/sta ... 2146156544

ps.
That's a 787-9.... mistake? or something that hasn't been revealed yet?

Good pick up, according to EK's press release they will be configured in both 2 and 3 class aircraft ranging from 240 to 330 seats. 240 seems to be too small of a number for a 787-10

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... i-airshow#

A 240 seater is likely a hint that the 789 will be part of this order. EY seats 235 in their 3 class 789 and they typically have a less dense config than EK on similar AC.

Newbiepilot · Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:48 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:

Thanks for reminding us. Going up to 14 a month makes a lot more sense once Boeing knew they'd get a deal from Emirates. 2017 has been a good sales year for the 787.

Prior to this order, 83 per Wikipedia (not yet with Emirates order, again as Boeing made it sound like a conditional order that the SEC probably won't let them book as firm; I'm sure this order will happen, but probably import/export bank must confirm and a few other details.

There are currently 171 787-10 orders. I wonder how many EK 787s will be the 789 and how many the 787-10? I had hopes of firm orders to bring the 787-10 over 200 at the Dubai air show.

Lightsaber

The Turkish and Emirates orders for 40 787s each haven't been booked as firm orders yet. Boeing is showing 96 on their order page. That means Boeing is within sight of matching or exceeding their best 787 sales year in a decade and increasing the backlog this year.

KarelXWB · Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:52 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
The Turkish and Emirates orders for 40 787s each haven't been booked as firm orders yet. Boeing is showing 96 on their order page. That means Boeing is within sight of matching or exceeding their best 787 sales year in a decade and increasing the backlog this year.

The Turkish Airlines order is for 20 aircraft though.

MakeMinesLAX · Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:16 pm

enzo011 wrote:
And one of the least surprising orders goes to Boeing. EK cancelled the A350, 50 A359's along with 20 A35K's, and people were seriously considering that they would order the A350 again? I would guess the stories that the A350 was still in the running was to get some more discounts from Boeing.

Am I remembering correctly that EK was largely, if not entirely, responsible for the "XWB" aspect of the A350. If so, they fall into the same category as QF with the 777 during its design phase.

rbavfan · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:08 pm

zeke wrote:
Good news for EK, an order people has said was in place for some time.

The number ordered just seems too small for their fleet size. I am half expecting a lot more, maybe they will be looking to split this.

This is the rode the were talking about for more shorter regional routes. It's not really to heavily aide or replace 777's. They only had 5 A330 that are retired ow with 772/3 replacing them for now. So 40 is a big jump.

CX747 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:08 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... -1-billion

Bloomberg article describing the on scene breakdown.

rbavfan · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:12 pm

qf789 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Another image from Boeing's twitter.

https://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/sta ... 2146156544

ps.
That's a 787-9.... mistake? or something that hasn't been revealed yet?

Good pick up, according to EK's press release they will be configured in both 2 and 3 class aircraft ranging from 240 to 330 seats. 240 seems to be too small of a number for a 787-10

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... i-airshow#

240 is not to small considering their Fist class & Biz class products that are probably slated for the shorter runs with high paying clients.

rbavfan · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:15 pm

kasimir wrote:
parapente wrote:
Their press release quotes Emirates as saying that some of them will be for replacements (to keep young fleet) - replacing what?

I think that part of the order is to replace the 77L for the ULH ops

The 78-10 cannot replace the 77L for long haul it's max range is 6430nm vs 8555nm. Not even close to happening.

KarelXWB · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:18 pm

qf789 wrote:
Good pick up, according to EK's press release they will be configured in both 2 and 3 class aircraft ranging from 240 to 330 seats. 240 seems to be too small of a number for a 787-10

As Emirates doesn't have Premium Economy, can we assume the 787 will feature First Class suites? That would explain the 240 seats.

Newbiepilot · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:19 pm

It is fun to go back and read the speculation about this order

From July 2017
viewtopic.php?t=1368511

From December 2016
viewtopic.php?t=1349051

This order was a long time in the making. Many expected a combination of 787-9s and 787-10s or a conversion from some 777s.

9w748capt · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:24 pm

Any chance we can edit the thread title? 787-10's? Really?

KarelXWB · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:32 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
Wow....a complete vindication for Boeing and all the naysayers who said this order would never happen....particularly those who said the order announcement would never happen at the Dubai Airshow.

Actually it was Tim Clark himself who stated the order was "off the table".

When an airline representative makes a statement, it usually gets discussed on the internet.

9w748capt wrote:
Any chance we can edit the thread title? 787-10's? Really?

The Boeing press release clearly mentions 40 787-10s.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2017-11-12- ... reamliners

NoTime · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:40 pm

Congrats to Boeing and Emirates!

727200 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:41 pm

Congrates to EK and Boeing. Especially Boeing who walked right into the backyard of Airbus and took this order away from them.

TheLion · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:50 pm

rbavfan wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Another image from Boeing's twitter.

https://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/sta ... 2146156544

ps.
That's a 787-9.... mistake? or something that hasn't been revealed yet?

Good pick up, according to EK's press release they will be configured in both 2 and 3 class aircraft ranging from 240 to 330 seats. 240 seems to be too small of a number for a 787-10

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... i-airshow#

240 is not to small considering their Fist class & Biz class products that are probably slated for the shorter runs with high paying clients.

BA operate the -9 with an ultra-premium 4-class configuration, with just 216 seats, so it’s hard to see EK only have 240 on the larger -10. Sounds to me like they’ll have some -9s too.

ElroyJetson · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:59 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
It is fun to go back and read the speculation about this order

From July 2017
viewtopic.php?t=1368511

From December 2016
viewtopic.php?t=1349051

This order was a long time in the making. Many expected a combination of 787-9s and 787-10s or a conversion from some 777s.

I started a thread in September about the Dubai airshow in September. I felt certain EK would want to make a splash, but many felt otherwise. The speculation made is definitely interesting.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1372831&p=19793193#p19793193

The 787-10 is an outstanding aircraft. Congrats to both Boeing and EK.

rbavfan · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:01 pm

TheLion wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
qf789 wrote:

Good pick up, according to EK's press release they will be configured in both 2 and 3 class aircraft ranging from 240 to 330 seats. 240 seems to be too small of a number for a 787-10

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... i-airshow#

240 is not to small considering their Fist class & Biz class products that are probably slated for the shorter runs with high paying clients.

BA operate the -9 with an ultra-premium 4-class configuration, with just 216 seats, so it’s hard to see EK only have 240 on the larger -10. Sounds to me like they’ll have some -9s too.

So your comparing BA's 4 class with that of EK? EK likes to add a bar lounge & they have better seats that take up more room in First & Business. BA 789 with EK level cabin would probably seat 201 or fewer.

Arion640 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:41 pm

727200 wrote:
Congrates to EK and Boeing. Especially Boeing who walked right into the backyard of Airbus and took this order away from them.

Hardly Airbus's back yard when you think about it, 150 777's in service now plus the 777X orders, they will/are flying more boeing metal than airbus.

Arion640 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:42 pm

rbavfan wrote:
TheLion wrote:
rbavfan wrote:

240 is not to small considering their Fist class & Biz class products that are probably slated for the shorter runs with high paying clients.

BA operate the -9 with an ultra-premium 4-class configuration, with just 216 seats, so it’s hard to see EK only have 240 on the larger -10. Sounds to me like they’ll have some -9s too.

So your comparing BA's 4 class with that of EK? EK likes to add a bar lounge & they have better seats that take up more room in First & Business. BA 789 with EK level cabin would probably seat 201 or fewer.

But EK don't have PE which of course takes up some seats.

FlyingVan · Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:49 pm

Good looking aircraft in EK colors.

NeBaNi · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:18 pm

Congrats to EK and Boeing! :champagne:

The largest Dreamliner looks stunning in Emirates colors! :hearts:

Buffalomatt1027 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:42 pm

GOOD JOB BOEING! Airbus cant be happy about that.

NichCage · Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:52 pm

I would assume the 787-10 will replace the 777-300ER in the fleet. Does EK still have any 777-300ER's on order?

Otherwise, the Emirates fleet will most likely be 787-10 and the A380 in the foreseeable future.

bigjku · Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:05 am

NichCage wrote:
I would assume the 787-10 will replace the 777-300ER in the fleet. Does EK still have any 777-300ER's on order?

Otherwise, the Emirates fleet will most likely be 787-10 and the A380 in the foreseeable future.

Other than the 150 77X they have on order...

Revelation · Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:13 am

NichCage wrote:
I would assume the 787-10 will replace the 777-300ER in the fleet. Does EK still have any 777-300ER's on order?

Otherwise, the Emirates fleet will most likely be 787-10 and the A380 in the foreseeable future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_ ... rent_fleet tells us that EK has 126 77W in the fleet and 14 on order.

Famously EK has 35 778 and 115 779 along with the new 40 78J order.

778 is almost as big as 77W so in some cases you will find 78J, 778 or 779 replacing 77W depending on desired range and capacity.

787fan8 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:21 am

Kudos to Boeing and Emirates on this wonderful order!

LH707330 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:51 am

Is that little circle on the engine of the 789 render a GE logo by any chance?

RJMAZ · Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:51 am

The 787-10 is my favourite widebody. I'm expecting it to secure the majority of new 787 sales. From an economic perspective it not only has the best CASM of the family but also the best CASM of any widebody ever made.

So if the 787-10 can fly the distance its the number one choice. With the ME3 it can still cover Europe and Asia with ease. It's the perfect aircraft for them.

StudiodeKadent · Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:02 am

migair54 wrote:
chiki wrote:
What percentage of EK network will the 7810 be able to cover, i am sure this has been discussed before but not sure where.

Everything except some USA LAX, SFO, FLL, IAH, DFW, Brazil and New Zealand, so I guess more than 95%, However I don't think we will see the B787-10 in any ULR from DXB.

Given Dubai's hot conditions I doubt the 787-10 will be able to get to the Americas at all. Perhaps Montreal or Boston at a very outside chance but I'd expect those to remain 777X/A380 (or perhaps 787-9 if EK gets those) destinations.

The 787-10 will be for Africa, Asia, India and Europe. That's a huge amount of the world's population. In addition I think Sir Timmy stated he only planned the jet for regional/"up to 10 hours" routes. So no Americas there.

maortega15 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:16 am

Possibly CEB and CRK along with KBL, the secondary cities in Pakistan as well as smaller cities in SE Asia.

RJMAZ · Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:36 am

Emirates fleet is full of aircraft with a range over 7000+nm.

This destination map shows the vast majority of the routes are under 5000nm. I'd estimate half of the destinations are even under 4000nm. Most of the current fleet are operating no where near their maximum range. Even on the hottest day the 787-10 can fly most of the network with a full payload.

The 787-10 would be directly replacing the older 777-300ER's that are flying shorter routes. The 777X would replace the older 777-300ER's and the 777-200LR's on the longer routes.

I'd expect many more 787-10's to be ordered. Its the best aircraft for 4000-5000nm.

RL777 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:02 am

Excellent news for both Emirates and Boeing, I always had the feeling an order would be tabled at the Airshow despite TC straying the masses otherwise. The 78J is the ideal aircraft for the shorter high density routes that are currently operated by aircraft either too large or misused on those routes. Whether or not the A350 is still under consideration, tough to say. I think some of the options will eventually become 789s for thinner long haul ops.

waly777 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:52 am

rbavfan wrote:
TheLion wrote:
rbavfan wrote:

240 is not to small considering their Fist class & Biz class products that are probably slated for the shorter runs with high paying clients.

BA operate the -9 with an ultra-premium 4-class configuration, with just 216 seats, so it’s hard to see EK only have 240 on the larger -10. Sounds to me like they’ll have some -9s too.

So your comparing BA's 4 class with that of EK? EK likes to add a bar lounge & they have better seats that take up more room in First & Business. BA 789 with EK level cabin would probably seat 201 or fewer.

Unlikely. EY seats 235 in a 3 class cabin on the 789 and almost always has a less dense seating config than EK.

You are unlikely to see bars on the 787, weight penalty will be significant.

BLUESKY57 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:13 am

The Dreamliner looks really great in EK colors. Other than the obvious economical advantages and the 787 being a better fit for their operations, a nicer looking aircraft appearance wise to the A350. Airbus builds very good, safe and economical aircraft, but on the design side, can learn a lot from Boeing.

Jayafe · Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:57 am

BLUESKY57 wrote:
. Airbus builds very good, safe and economical aircraft, but on the design side, can learn a lot from Boeing.

Disagree, as most people does.

MrBren · Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:19 am

BLUESKY57 wrote:
Airbus builds very good, safe and economical aircraft, but on the design side, can learn a lot from Boeing.

I fully disagree. I personally think the A380 looks nicer than the humpback B747. I have never understood why the B747 have been called the queen of the sky. I have always tried to avoid flying this too old metal particularly due to its tiresome noise.

LAX772LR · Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:41 am

MrBren wrote:
I have never understood why the B747 have been called the queen of the sky.

Because for more than 20yrs, if you wanted to realistically fly more than 5500nm, or carry more than 300ish people doing it... you had no option other than a 747.

worldranger · Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:58 am

Another nice factor for EK -is that it’s a common type rating by the UAE GCAA with 777. The 77X & 78J have the same flight deck. It will be operated by one Boeing crew list - quite efficient - with marginal differences.

Does anyone know if the 350 & 380 are a common type in UAE ?

parapente · Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:49 am

It has to be said the 787-10 is the perfect regional aircraft for them.Once the 350-1000 got its massive upgrade it was simply too much aircraft.I can see a big European 'secondary city' campaign coming in 2022.There are plenty of them.
What might have been??
1.Well Airbus 'could' have proceeded with the original 'simple stretch' to the 351 as well as the upgraded version. (bit like a 773 to the 773er).But they chose not to.
2.They could have launched a 380 NEO programme 2 years ago when Emirates asked for it.It would have used the T7000 (plus the other plus changes).This could have been done on the basis that Emirates chose its (by then) sister aircraft the 330-9 NEO using the same T7000 engine.
But that's all if's and maybe's now.Perhaps these things were all discussed and rejected by one or the other company.One can never know.

worldranger · Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:47 am

Now that EK is a 787 customer -It will be easier at some point in the future to see the massive 77X order tweaked due market conditions. Increase of 78J’s or 789’s over X’s if need be.

frigatebird · Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:10 am

worldranger wrote:
Now that EK is a 787 customer -It will be easier at some point in the future to see the massive 77X order tweaked due market conditions. Increase of 78J’s or 789’s over X’s if need be.

I very much doubt that EK would be allowed to reduce their 777X launch order without financial penalties. But I do think it is possible EK has negotiated some of their 777X deliveries 2022 onwards to be pushed to the right somewhat. Maybe this is why EK said earlier this year the 787/A350 order was off the table, perhaps they didn't get the concessions they would have liked from Boeing/Airbus. Possibly Boeing was willing to allow some concessions now, while Airbus may only have wanted to do something in combination with an A380 order. Just a personal theory though.

Newbiepilot · Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:54 am

Jayafe wrote:
BLUESKY57 wrote:
. Airbus builds very good, safe and economical aircraft, but on the design side, can learn a lot from Boeing.

Disagree, as most people does.

I don't think most people will ever agree when it comes to aesthetics. Everyone has their own opinion.

Revelation · Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:25 pm

In https://www.reuters.com/article/us-emir ... SKBN1DD0XD STC makes it clear that we can expect more 787 orders in the future:

He played down reports that Emirates, which had previously talked of a potential order for 50-70 twin-engined jets, had taken a more conservative tack by ordering only 40 787-10s.

“Will it stop at 40? My own view? No, it will grow,” he said, adding that Emirates may take some smaller 787-9s.

And makes it clear the door is closed with regards to the A350 for quite a while:

Asked whether Emirates’ plans still left room for the A350, Clark said: “No. I would say that once we have gone for the 787 we will stay with the 787, but I can never say never.”

Bricktop · Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:44 pm

So much for the notion touted here that EK wouldn't touch the 787-10 because its performance would suck out of DXB.

9w748capt · Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:56 pm

qf789 wrote:
Just In

Emirates has placed an order for 40 787-10's

https://twitter.com/emirates/status/929640845556494336

787-10's what?

qantas747 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:01 pm

I know EK has mentioned in the past that they would only move their operations to DWC in one big move, but perhaps with the 78X they could run a split hub somewhat earlier to cater for growth. They could base say 20-30 380s along with the 78X and slowly build up DWC before the move.

Move FZ over there with some key feeder routes say 2023 ish and then progressively move the rest over as DWC expands?

Momo1435 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Bricktop wrote:
So much for the notion touted here that EK wouldn't touch the 787-10 because its performance would suck out of DXB.

That notion was touted by the same person who now signed this deal. I always suspected that it was just a reaction from Emirates to way to early news reports that Boeing had won the order. Now 2 years later there are no signs that Boeing or GE/RR specifically did something with the engines to come closer to Emirates demands from 2015. I could of course be that 2 more years of 787s operating in the region have shown that the engine won't be a problem after all.

dtw2hyd · Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:33 pm

frigatebird wrote:
worldranger wrote:
Now that EK is a 787 customer -It will be easier at some point in the future to see the massive 77X order tweaked due market conditions. Increase of 78J’s or 789’s over X’s if need be.

I very much doubt that EK would be allowed to reduce their 777X launch order without financial penalties. But I do think it is possible EK has negotiated some of their 777X deliveries 2022 onwards to be pushed to the right somewhat. Maybe this is why EK said earlier this year the 787/A350 order was off the table, perhaps they didn't get the concessions they would have liked from Boeing/Airbus. Possibly Boeing was willing to allow some concessions now, while Airbus may only have wanted to do something in combination with an A380 order. Just a personal theory though.

One would think so. This deal is good for EK, not so much for Boeing 777X. Time will tell.

Revelation · Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:42 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
One would think so. This deal is good for EK, not so much for Boeing 777X. Time will tell.

Quite good for 77X. It shows one can find roles for 779, 778, 78J and perhaps 789 all in one fleet. Lots of cross training benefits too.

Quite bad for A350, total shut out.

Not so great for A380. Open squabbles about the future production lifetime and ongoing resale value of the fleet aren't a good thing.

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