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WNflyer1523
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Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:28 pm

Delta used to operate nonstops to ATL and CVG from ISP using regional jets, and also using 737's as part of Delta Express down to your typical vacation destinations in FL. Those Express flights ended sometime in the early 2000's facing competition from WN. Sometime around 2004-2005 the CVG flights ended (which was part of the major cutback of flights at CVG) and then in 2008 ATL flights ended after the merger of Delta and Northwest.
Would Delta consider returning to ISP in the near future with ATL and DTW service, maybe even MSP? With AA being the only legacy carrier there, the airport lacks sufficient service with the big 3. Also, 3 of Frontier's new nonstop routes from ISP are to ATL, DTW, and MSP, so I think that Delta should at least be paying attention. Thoughts?
Someday KISP will succeed. Someday.
 
Balloonchaser
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:26 pm

I think ISP is in their mind.. Personally, I think that Delta could service SJU once San Juan Repairs.

I can also see ATL and MSP from them
 
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jeffh747
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:06 pm

Problem is that Delta has a massive presence at JFK/LGA, just about an hour away (sometimes a bit more with traffic). Long Islanders could easily just take the LIRR to the AirTrain if they wanted to fly Delta. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to allocate aircraft to ISP, where they could be positioned elsewhere more profitably. I think DL could fill a daily 717 or two to ATL, however not much more right now, especially considering WN’s larger operation there and F9’s new service to those destinations you mentioned, as well as to select Florida cities. They did not have the 717 back then, and I feel that if they were to restart Islip, the 717 seems like the right size to test the waters at first.
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SXDFC
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:13 pm

You post and ask 1000 questions about ISP.. If you live in the ISP area (which i assume you do) you should know that it’s a forgotten airport... WN seems to be doing just fine, Ive heard of stories of F9 pissing people off, and AA operates out of a hole in the wall.. I seriously doubt any of the legacies will ever come back there.. I was lucky enough to witness the days of USAir, AA (mainline) and DL at ISP back in the 90s, sadly those days are long gone!
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Balloonchaser
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:23 pm

jeffh747 wrote:
Problem is that Delta has a massive presence at JFK/LGA, just about an hour away (sometimes a bit more with traffic). Long Islanders could easily just take the LIRR to the AirTrain if they wanted to fly Delta. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to allocate aircraft to ISP, where they could be positioned elsewhere more profitably. I think DL could fill a daily 717 or two to ATL, however not much more right now, especially considering WN’s larger operation there and F9’s new service to those destinations you mentioned, as well as to select Florida cities. They did not have the 717 back then, and I feel that if they were to restart Islip, the 717 seems like the right size to test the waters at first.


You say that.. But look at KPVD and KMHT.. They are right next to KBOS (Big Delta Hub) and look at KSWF and KHPN.. They are right next to KJFK.

They all have Delta Service to Detroit and some of them have service to Atlanta. Those flights are on CRJ-900's.
 
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WNflyer1523
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:24 pm

SXDFC wrote:
You post and ask 1000 questions about ISP.. If you live in the ISP area (which i assume you do) you should know that it’s a forgotten airport... WN seems to be doing just fine, Ive heard of stories of F9 pissing people off, and AA operates out of a hole in the wall.. I seriously doubt any of the legacies will ever come back there.. I was lucky enough to witness the days of USAir, AA (mainline) and DL at ISP back in the 90s, sadly those days are long gone!

Lol true, I'm just a curious person, nothing wrong with that. Regarding what you said about Frontier, about a week or two ago one of their ISP-MCO flights was delayed 12 hours, and of course you can probably imagine how that went down. News 12 even made a whole article about it... and the whole comment section was fill of people sharing negative F9 experiences, aside from a few positive ones.
Someday KISP will succeed. Someday.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:26 pm

3x daily 717's to ATL and a daily CR9 to DTW is all I can see happening with ISP any time soon but it's possible. I chose DTW over MSP because DTW caters highly towards the state of NY more than MSP does.
Last edited by flymco753 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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WNflyer1523
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:26 pm

flymco753 wrote:
3x daily 717's to ATL and a daily CR9 to DTW is all I can see happening with ISP any time soon but it's possible. I chose DTW over MSP because DTW caters highly towards the state of NY more than MSP does.


Good point. Yea if Delta came in to ISP, DTW would definitely be RJ, and ATL 1-2x mainline. Maybe 2x mainline (717) along with a CRJ7?
Someday KISP will succeed. Someday.
 
Balloonchaser
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:26 pm

SXDFC wrote:
You post and ask 1000 questions about ISP.. If you live in the ISP area (which i assume you do) you should know that it’s a forgotten airport... WN seems to be doing just fine, Ive heard of stories of F9 pissing people off, and AA operates out of a hole in the wall.. I seriously doubt any of the legacies will ever come back there.. I was lucky enough to witness the days of USAir, AA (mainline) and DL at ISP back in the 90s, sadly those days are long gone!


Rumor is that Southwest may be giving American another gate and that they will service DCA and CLT out of there (DFW was mentioned but I doubt that).

Apparently Spirit is coming in with MYR service with intentions of reaching the West Coast.
 
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WNflyer1523
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:29 pm

Balloonchaser wrote:

Rumor is that Southwest may be giving American another gate and that they will service DCA and CLT out of there (DFW was mentioned but I doubt that).

Apparently Spirit is coming in with MYR service with intentions of reaching the West Coast.


Where did you hear that Southwest would give AA another gate?? They wouldn't need another gate, they only have 3 flights daily from ISP and if they were to add another 3-4 more to DCA and/or CLT, they could likely remain with 1 gate. And Spirit? Highly unlikely. They already have LGA-MYR and if they were to do more west coast, it likely wouldn't be from an airport that they don't already serve. (Which is ISP)
Someday KISP will succeed. Someday.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:31 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
3x daily 717's to ATL and a daily CR9 to DTW is all I can see happening with ISP any time soon but it's possible. I chose DTW over MSP because DTW caters highly towards the state of NY more than MSP does.


Good point. Yea if Delta came in to ISP, DTW would definitely be RJ, and ATL 1-2x mainline. Maybe 2x mainline (717) along with a CRJ7?
Couldn't tell, could be more like 4-5x CR9 because it would be a similar alternative like HPN.
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MesaFlyGuy
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:45 pm

Am I the only one reading this entire thread shaking his head? The only plausible idea I've seen pitched in this entire thread is AA restarting ISP-DCA. Spirit is a maybe, but they have not expressed any interest as of yet. I really don't know where some users are getting this idea that NK is definitely coming to ISP.
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evank516
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:07 pm

jeffh747 wrote:
Problem is that Delta has a massive presence at JFK/LGA, just about an hour away (sometimes a bit more with traffic). Long Islanders could easily just take the LIRR to the AirTrain if they wanted to fly Delta. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to allocate aircraft to ISP, where they could be positioned elsewhere more profitably. I think DL could fill a daily 717 or two to ATL, however not much more right now, especially considering WN’s larger operation there and F9’s new service to those destinations you mentioned, as well as to select Florida cities. They did not have the 717 back then, and I feel that if they were to restart Islip, the 717 seems like the right size to test the waters at first.


The problem with the JFK/LGA argument is HPN which seems to be holding it's own despite being closer to LGA than ISP is. I could see DL returning sometime in the next couple of years.
 
deltairlines
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:34 pm

evank516 wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
Problem is that Delta has a massive presence at JFK/LGA, just about an hour away (sometimes a bit more with traffic). Long Islanders could easily just take the LIRR to the AirTrain if they wanted to fly Delta. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to allocate aircraft to ISP, where they could be positioned elsewhere more profitably. I think DL could fill a daily 717 or two to ATL, however not much more right now, especially considering WN’s larger operation there and F9’s new service to those destinations you mentioned, as well as to select Florida cities. They did not have the 717 back then, and I feel that if they were to restart Islip, the 717 seems like the right size to test the waters at first.


The problem with the JFK/LGA argument is HPN which seems to be holding it's own despite being closer to LGA than ISP is. I could see DL returning sometime in the next couple of years.


HPN also happens to have its own base with a large corporate sector in the White Plains and Stamford areas that the airport serves. There isn't much corporate traffic heading out to Central/Western Long Island.
 
ty97
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:54 pm

Balloonchaser wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
Problem is that Delta has a massive presence at JFK/LGA, just about an hour away (sometimes a bit more with traffic). Long Islanders could easily just take the LIRR to the AirTrain if they wanted to fly Delta. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to allocate aircraft to ISP, where they could be positioned elsewhere more profitably. I think DL could fill a daily 717 or two to ATL, however not much more right now, especially considering WN’s larger operation there and F9’s new service to those destinations you mentioned, as well as to select Florida cities. They did not have the 717 back then, and I feel that if they were to restart Islip, the 717 seems like the right size to test the waters at first.


You say that.. But look at KPVD and KMHT.. They are right next to KBOS (Big Delta Hub) and look at KSWF and KHPN.. They are right next to KJFK.

They all have Delta Service to Detroit and some of them have service to Atlanta. Those flights are on CRJ-900's.


I always appreciate the diversity of views on these matters. My initial reaction after reading the OP, and before reading the replies, was that ISP suffers a similar fate to SWF. Relatively little service due to competition from the NYC area airports that simply offer more competition, more non-stops, and usually better pricing (due to the competition). SWF has very meager service and, despite the Norwegian additions, has been rather stagnant in domestic for years, with very limited service. This is a huge difference compared to where SWF used to be. I grew up in the SWF catchment area and flew out of there several times. There used to multiple daily mainline service from legacy airlines to hubs. AA had multiple daily 727s (I think) to their then-RDU hub, their ORD hub, even a daily to DFW years ago. DL flew to multiple hubs. Little by little that whittled. AA was down to just ORD on F100s, then E145s when they retired the F100s, then AA pulled out completely. The only reason AA has any service now is the US merger. DL went to all regional to DTW and ATL and then cut ATL. On any given day, SWF has 5 to maybe 8 domestic flights, mostly on regional jets. Even SWF only manages 2 daily flights (1X FLL and 1X MCO) and they use the E190, not the A320. The only domestic growth in a very long time has been the soon-to-start non-daily non-stops to a couple of additional Florida destinations on Allegiant.

The 'why' to this, IMO, based on having many family and friends in that area still, is that they usually drive to NYC airports for better options, non-stops, and prices. Unless one of the limited Florida non-stops works for them, they'll just go to NYC even though it's a 90+ minute (depending on traffic) drive. I think ISP suffers this same issue. The western (most populated) part of Long Island suffers the same NYC airport proximity competition.

I'd love to see both airports grow and add service, but I've wanted that for years. The legacies, who I presume know more about this than I do, seem to not think it's worth it. Unfortunate, but with the economy strong right now, I don't see any reason to think it will change if they haven't jumped back in at this point. Would love to be wrong though.

HPN doesn't suffer the same fate due to the very monied area it sits in plus all of the corporate headquarters in that vicinity.
 
eal46859
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:45 pm

As someone from Suffolk County, LI , I used to take Eastern from ATL to ISP way back when. I would usually pay more to fly to ISP than to either LGA or JFK, but given the chance it was worth the money and I always drove back west towards the Nassau County line, once I arrived. I think I remember flying on a DL regional jet sometimes.
It's true LGA and JFK are about an hour away... at 4 in the morning. Just about any other time its half again more and at 4- 5p during the week, they each can be 2 hours away.
I routinely took the LIRR and the AirTrain, but to Atlanta on DL from JFK, their schedule wasn't like that from LGA if you ended arriving at the airport early and hoped to get on an earlier flight. The connection to LGA from the LIRR's Jamaica station was dismal with almost no cabs and a strange bus options. This was before Uber though.
 
lat41
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:54 pm

Balloonchaser wrote:

You say that.. But look at KPVD and KMHT.. They are right next to KBOS (Big Delta Hub) and look at KSWF and KHPN.. They are right next to KJFK.

They all have Delta Service to Detroit and some of them have service to Atlanta. Those flights are on CRJ-900's.

PVD has it's own metro area to draw from. A mix of 717s A320s MD88s and 90s but still only 3 daily to ATL and 3 DTW and the DTW drops to larger RJs and 717s in Winter. They lost MSP a few years ago. DL has so much invested to the North at BOS and in later years JetBlue Spirit, and even Sun Country are nipping at their heels constantly driving down yield.So even though more service would work and DL could charge a sensible premium, they hold off offering anything too comprehensive at PVD, not wanting to erode their BOS operation. PVD's future growth probably is not with DL, nor will ISP's be because of DL's similar marriage to LGA-JFK.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:55 am

evank516 wrote:
The problem with the JFK/LGA argument is HPN which seems to be holding it's own despite being closer to LGA than ISP is. I could see DL returning sometime in the next couple of years.


There is limited competition at HPN. At ISP, Southwest gives passengers multiple flights a day that offer 1-stop connections to most of the country. It's very unlikely that Delta would try to match those frequencies and there is no way that a few Envoy, Compass, or Endeavor RJ's will be competitive against Southwest.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:21 am

IPFreely wrote:
evank516 wrote:
The problem with the JFK/LGA argument is HPN which seems to be holding it's own despite being closer to LGA than ISP is. I could see DL returning sometime in the next couple of years.


There is limited competition at HPN. At ISP, Southwest gives passengers multiple flights a day that offer 1-stop connections to most of the country. It's very unlikely that Delta would try to match those frequencies and there is no way that a few Envoy, Compass, or Endeavor RJ's will be competitive against Southwest.


Envoy doesn't fly for Delta. Compass has limited and shrinking east coast DL flying. It would certainly be either 9E or OO if Delta did it. Probably an OO CR2 to DTW and if ATL was CRJ, 9E CR9 (or maybe eventually CR7)
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cheapgreek
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:51 am

flymco753 wrote:
3x daily 717's to ATL and a daily CR9 to DTW is all I can see happening with ISP any time soon but it's possible. I chose DTW over MSP because DTW caters highly towards the state of NY more than MSP does.


Test the market with CR7's, 3 each to ATL and DTW. There must be many DL FF's on the island and some would like the nearness of ISP. Many new routes are started by the regional's as they cost less to operate.
 
BobbyPSP
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:39 am

While there might not be corporate headquarters around ISP, keep in mind many in it's catchment area commute into the city. So there are business travelers that can use the service but of course profitability is key.

In this day and age, the airlines know where their flyers live and can very easily gather data to see if they have road warriors trekking to JFK/LGA that logically would use ISP service. Another thought would be to try seasonal service during the summer when folks flock to the Island.

I lived in PSP for 15 years and serveral of those working at the airport for SkyWest handling DL/UA regional a/c and mainline in season. Many airlines started testing seasonal service, including JetBlue weekly service from JFK (so did Virgin America but I don't remember who was first). At the time UA's seasonal mainline would barely be late Jan-Mar. I believe they run mainline year round now. Anyway PSP is booming with service now and fares have dropped to where driving to ONT is no longer needed.

Just my .02
 
evank516
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:59 pm

IPFreely wrote:
evank516 wrote:
The problem with the JFK/LGA argument is HPN which seems to be holding it's own despite being closer to LGA than ISP is. I could see DL returning sometime in the next couple of years.


There is limited competition at HPN. At ISP, Southwest gives passengers multiple flights a day that offer 1-stop connections to most of the country. It's very unlikely that Delta would try to match those frequencies and there is no way that a few Envoy, Compass, or Endeavor RJ's will be competitive against Southwest.


Are you forgetting the nice sized presence that jetBlue has in HPN? How about AirTran's tenure in HPN before WN axed the station?

Also, regardless of the corporate presence in Westchester and Stamford there's plenty of industry on Long Island. Also plenty of college campuses (Stony Brook for one) within the catchment area of ISP. Not just for students, but also for other industrial needs. ISP can support Delta, especially now with oil prices lower and Delta being in a much better financial standing than it was in 2008 when they left.
 
Balloonchaser
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:20 pm

I think when ISP Expands the terminal (They have plans to add 4 more gates), more airlines will look into ISP. But until then.. The legacies aren't that into ISP.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:21 am

evank516 wrote:
Are you forgetting the nice sized presence that jetBlue has in HPN?


Not at all. But JetBlue basically connects HPN to Florida. There's plenty of room a competitor that can connect HPN to the rest of the US.

Southwest already connects ISP to much of the U.S. with one-stop service. That's tougher for a new entrant to compete with, especially one that would bring under-performing regional airlines with CRJ's.
 
ADXMatt
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:12 am

I can see AA bringing back the DCA service. It lacked the slots when they had the AA/US merger, I would also love to have AA bring back the ISP-ORD service. It would be very easy for AA to add flights to a station that is already open.

For DL to come back to ISP I could see 2x daily to ATL on a 717 or E Jet. If that does well then I could see them adding DTW.

UA doesn't have the FF base on LI as does AA/DL so I would be surprised to see them come back.

If the legacy's come back or add service they need to forget about being competitive to Florida and use their revenue management systems to focus more on higher yielding markets.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:48 am

ADXMatt wrote:
I can see AA bringing back the DCA service. It lacked the slots when they had the AA/US merger, I would also love to have AA bring back the ISP-ORD service. It would be very easy for AA to add flights to a station that is already open.

For DL to come back to ISP I could see 2x daily to ATL on a 717 or E Jet. If that does well then I could see them adding DTW.

UA doesn't have the FF base on LI as does AA/DL so I would be surprised to see them come back.

If the legacy's come back or add service they need to forget about being competitive to Florida and use their revenue management systems to focus more on higher yielding markets.


Delta doesn't operate 175's out of their ATL hub...
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evank516
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:52 pm

IPFreely wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Are you forgetting the nice sized presence that jetBlue has in HPN?


Not at all. But JetBlue basically connects HPN to Florida. There's plenty of room a competitor that can connect HPN to the rest of the US.

Southwest already connects ISP to much of the U.S. with one-stop service. That's tougher for a new entrant to compete with, especially one that would bring under-performing regional airlines with CRJ's.


And the Caribbean, since FLL and MCO have Caribbean connections available. They had AirTran until the WN merger too which competed with Delta directly. Southwest does connect ISP to many places around the US, but not as well as DL could, and since DL flew to ISP before I don't think it would really be that big of an issue. If anything they would be in more direct competition with F9 for O&D to ATL and DTW. DL can get you to more places than WN can though.
 
jplatts
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:17 pm

Delta Air Lines is at all of the other secondary commercial airports that Southwest Airlines serves, including DAL, HOU, MDW, OAK, BUR, ONT, LGB, and SNA, and Delta has nonstop service to its main ATL hub from DAL, HOU, MDW, OAK (seasonally), and SNA. In addition, there are only 4 other airports that are served by Southwest Airlines but not by Delta Air Lines, and these airports are AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP, all of which are located in smaller Texas markets.

Even though Delta does not serve ISP, Long Island is also served by LGA and JFK, and Delta already serves Long Island through its LGA and JFK hubs. JFK Airport is located in Queens, but is adjacent to Nassau County and the Long Island suburbs of Inwood and Woodmere. Some of the Long Island suburbs are also actually closer to LGA and JFK than to ISP, and and LGA and JFK have nonstop service to destinations that are not served nonstop from ISP.

Delta could bring back nonstop service to its main ATL hub from ISP since Delta has an established frequent flyer base on Long Island with its LGA and JFK hubs, with nonstop service from LGA to all of its hubs within the LGA perimeter, with nonstop service from JFK to all of its other hubs, and with Delta serving other secondary commercial airports in major U.S. metropolitan areas.
 
stlgph
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:19 pm

It's quite simple, if you live on Long Island and YOU want to fly Delta, they want YOU to fly from LGA or JFK.

That's it. Period.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
evank516
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:33 pm

ADXMatt wrote:
I can see AA bringing back the DCA service. It lacked the slots when they had the AA/US merger, I would also love to have AA bring back the ISP-ORD service. It would be very easy for AA to add flights to a station that is already open.

For DL to come back to ISP I could see 2x daily to ATL on a 717 or E Jet. If that does well then I could see them adding DTW.

UA doesn't have the FF base on LI as does AA/DL so I would be surprised to see them come back.

If the legacy's come back or add service they need to forget about being competitive to Florida and use their revenue management systems to focus more on higher yielding markets.


DL flying ISP-ATL is already competitive to Florida because ATL offers connections to Florida cities that WN doesn't even fly to (DAB, EYW, MIA, MLB, SRQ, TLH, VPS, GNV). Of the cities in FL and the FL Keys I just listed, F9 currently offers MIA 1x daily.

stlgph wrote:
It's quite simple, if you live on Long Island and YOU want to fly Delta, they want YOU to fly from LGA or JFK.

That's it. Period.


Not it. If you want to fly AA and you live on Long Island. Guess what? You can use ISP. DL has a chance to re-capture some of the market share that it once had at ISP less than 10 years ago. As I mentioned before, they are a stronger, more financially stable airline with the best aircraft types for an airport like ISP than they were back in 2008 when they left. Until May 1, 2008 if you wanted to fly Delta and you lived on Long Island, you could ALSO fly out of ISP. Things have changed. The market has changed. DL has changed.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:23 pm

evank516 wrote:
Southwest does connect ISP to many places around the US, but not as well as DL could, and since DL flew to ISP before I don't think it would really be that big of an issue. If anything they would be in more direct competition with F9 for O&D to ATL and DTW. DL can get you to more places than WN can though.


If DL thought they could make money at ISP they would have returned. They haven’t. The conundrum they have is how to serve ISP. It’s unlikely they would want to put mainline service on ISP-ATL or ISP-DTW. And there is very little chance of unreliable Delta Connection service competing against Southwest which is well established at ISP. There are probably better opportunities elsewhere where there is less competition.
 
evank516
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Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:14 pm

IPFreely wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Southwest does connect ISP to many places around the US, but not as well as DL could, and since DL flew to ISP before I don't think it would really be that big of an issue. If anything they would be in more direct competition with F9 for O&D to ATL and DTW. DL can get you to more places than WN can though.


If DL thought they could make money at ISP they would have returned. They haven’t. The conundrum they have is how to serve ISP. It’s unlikely they would want to put mainline service on ISP-ATL or ISP-DTW. And there is very little chance of unreliable Delta Connection service competing against Southwest which is well established at ISP. There are probably better opportunities elsewhere where there is less competition.


I don't see how it's unlikely they would want to put mainline on ISP-ATL. ISP-DTW, yes, but not ATL. Either way, WN's presence at ISP has shrunk since DL left. Recruiting efforts take years, sometimes even up to a decade or more (see jetBlue in DAB). With WN more focused on LGA nowadays (they didn't even have plans for LaGuardia in 2008), I really think it's only a matter of time before DL flies there again.
 
stlgph
Posts: 9711
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:23 pm

evank516 wrote:
ADXMatt wrote:
I can see AA bringing back the DCA service. It lacked the slots when they had the AA/US merger, I would also love to have AA bring back the ISP-ORD service. It would be very easy for AA to add flights to a station that is already open.

For DL to come back to ISP I could see 2x daily to ATL on a 717 or E Jet. If that does well then I could see them adding DTW.

UA doesn't have the FF base on LI as does AA/DL so I would be surprised to see them come back.

If the legacy's come back or add service they need to forget about being competitive to Florida and use their revenue management systems to focus more on higher yielding markets.


DL flying ISP-ATL is already competitive to Florida because ATL offers connections to Florida cities that WN doesn't even fly to (DAB, EYW, MIA, MLB, SRQ, TLH, VPS, GNV). Of the cities in FL and the FL Keys I just listed, F9 currently offers MIA 1x daily.

stlgph wrote:
It's quite simple, if you live on Long Island and YOU want to fly Delta, they want YOU to fly from LGA or JFK.

That's it. Period.


Not it. If you want to fly AA and you live on Long Island. Guess what? You can use ISP. DL has a chance to re-capture some of the market share that it once had at ISP less than 10 years ago. As I mentioned before, they are a stronger, more financially stable airline with the best aircraft types for an airport like ISP than they were back in 2008 when they left. Until May 1, 2008 if you wanted to fly Delta and you lived on Long Island, you could ALSO fly out of ISP. Things have changed. The market has changed. DL has changed.



If someone wanted to fly American, they could fly American. Which would be why I wrote "if you want to Delta."

Thanks for posting....*just* to be posting.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
evank516
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:29 pm

stlgph wrote:
evank516 wrote:
ADXMatt wrote:
I can see AA bringing back the DCA service. It lacked the slots when they had the AA/US merger, I would also love to have AA bring back the ISP-ORD service. It would be very easy for AA to add flights to a station that is already open.

For DL to come back to ISP I could see 2x daily to ATL on a 717 or E Jet. If that does well then I could see them adding DTW.

UA doesn't have the FF base on LI as does AA/DL so I would be surprised to see them come back.

If the legacy's come back or add service they need to forget about being competitive to Florida and use their revenue management systems to focus more on higher yielding markets.


DL flying ISP-ATL is already competitive to Florida because ATL offers connections to Florida cities that WN doesn't even fly to (DAB, EYW, MIA, MLB, SRQ, TLH, VPS, GNV). Of the cities in FL and the FL Keys I just listed, F9 currently offers MIA 1x daily.

stlgph wrote:
It's quite simple, if you live on Long Island and YOU want to fly Delta, they want YOU to fly from LGA or JFK.

That's it. Period.


Not it. If you want to fly AA and you live on Long Island. Guess what? You can use ISP. DL has a chance to re-capture some of the market share that it once had at ISP less than 10 years ago. As I mentioned before, they are a stronger, more financially stable airline with the best aircraft types for an airport like ISP than they were back in 2008 when they left. Until May 1, 2008 if you wanted to fly Delta and you lived on Long Island, you could ALSO fly out of ISP. Things have changed. The market has changed. DL has changed.



If someone wanted to fly American, they could fly American. Which would be why I wrote "if you want to Delta."

Thanks for posting....*just* to be posting.


If you can't post an opinion without someone bringing it up for debate, then you shouldn't be posting. It also begs another point, if someone wants to fly Delta who isn't willing to drive to JFK/LGA, then they'll fly another airline. Sorry, but I highly doubt there isn't a market for DL in ISP nowadays.
 
stlgph
Posts: 9711
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:41 pm

evank516 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
evank516 wrote:

DL flying ISP-ATL is already competitive to Florida because ATL offers connections to Florida cities that WN doesn't even fly to (DAB, EYW, MIA, MLB, SRQ, TLH, VPS, GNV). Of the cities in FL and the FL Keys I just listed, F9 currently offers MIA 1x daily.



Not it. If you want to fly AA and you live on Long Island. Guess what? You can use ISP. DL has a chance to re-capture some of the market share that it once had at ISP less than 10 years ago. As I mentioned before, they are a stronger, more financially stable airline with the best aircraft types for an airport like ISP than they were back in 2008 when they left. Until May 1, 2008 if you wanted to fly Delta and you lived on Long Island, you could ALSO fly out of ISP. Things have changed. The market has changed. DL has changed.



If someone wanted to fly American, they could fly American. Which would be why I wrote "if you want to Delta."

Thanks for posting....*just* to be posting.


If you can't post an opinion without someone bringing it up for debate, then you shouldn't be posting. It also begs another point, if someone wants to fly Delta who isn't willing to drive to JFK/LGA, then they'll fly another airline. Sorry, but I highly doubt there isn't a market for DL in ISP nowadays.


Dude, if I wanted to talk about AMERICAN AIRLINES then I would have written about AMERICAN AIRLINES.

I didn't.

I wrote about DELTA AIR LINES.

My. God. :roll:
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
evank516
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:36 pm

stlgph wrote:
evank516 wrote:
stlgph wrote:


If someone wanted to fly American, they could fly American. Which would be why I wrote "if you want to Delta."

Thanks for posting....*just* to be posting.


If you can't post an opinion without someone bringing it up for debate, then you shouldn't be posting. It also begs another point, if someone wants to fly Delta who isn't willing to drive to JFK/LGA, then they'll fly another airline. Sorry, but I highly doubt there isn't a market for DL in ISP nowadays.


Dude, if I wanted to talk about AMERICAN AIRLINES then I would have written about AMERICAN AIRLINES.

I didn't.

I wrote about DELTA AIR LINES.

My. God. :roll:


I talked about American Airlines to make a point, which is valid...dude.

AA has it's own frequent flier base in NYC and on Long Island just like Delta does. AA flies to all NYC Area primary and secondary airports. Delta flies to all but one, ISP. My point being, the "if you live on Long Island and want to fly Delta, then use JFK/LGA" mentality isn't always the right one. They flew to ISP in different times, and now they've changed. The climate nowadays is right for them to slip back in and grab some market share that they potentially lost.
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1156
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:38 pm

ISP is a lot like HPN. You would expect more business traffic to support it, but it's not really there. That might be why DL is staying away.
 
SXDFC
Posts: 1751
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:40 pm

Why would DL want to come back to ISP and operate out of the same hole in the wall they did 15 years ago? If they wanted to come back, they would have brokered a deal with Southwest to use one of its gates... They haven’t.. The only Delta metal you’ll ever see at ISP is a charter or a diversion..

DL, AA (mainline), UA, and many others have ZERO intention to serve ISP.. The only way new carriers would come is if they build another new terminal or agree to use WN gates and not compete on WN routes... Neither of which has happened yet..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FA9295
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:36 am

Balloonchaser wrote:
I think ISP is in their mind.. Personally, I think that Delta could service SJU once San Juan Repairs.

I can also see ATL and MSP from them


JetBlue would be more likely to serve SJU from ISP than Delta would...
 
evank516
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:24 pm

SXDFC wrote:
Why would DL want to come back to ISP and operate out of the same hole in the wall they did 15 years ago? If they wanted to come back, they would have brokered a deal with Southwest to use one of its gates... They haven’t.. The only Delta metal you’ll ever see at ISP is a charter or a diversion..

DL, AA (mainline), UA, and many others have ZERO intention to serve ISP.. The only way new carriers would come is if they build another new terminal or agree to use WN gates and not compete on WN routes... Neither of which has happened yet..


For the record, the "hole in the wall" DL used at ISP 9 years ago was actually the only other jetway equipped gate (at the time, they added one more) on the B side of the terminal, which Frontier now uses. They'd have to either A) use one of the ground boarding gates on the B side or B) they can use one of the 4 gates that WN gave up exclusive/preferential use to not that long ago. Concourse A has 8.5 gates. WN has exclusive or preferential use of 4 of them, not all 8.5 anymore. AA uses A1L, which is a hole in the wall. I think market conditions are becoming conducive for DL to go into ISP again, as I've already mentioned.
 
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WNflyer1523
Topic Author
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:28 pm

evank516 wrote:
AA uses A1L, which is a hole in the wall.

They actually operate from A1 now (and using the jetway) since they have the E145 at ISP
Someday KISP will succeed. Someday.
 
SXDFC
Posts: 1751
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:20 am

evank516 wrote:
SXDFC wrote:
Why would DL want to come back to ISP and operate out of the same hole in the wall they did 15 years ago? If they wanted to come back, they would have brokered a deal with Southwest to use one of its gates... They haven’t.. The only Delta metal you’ll ever see at ISP is a charter or a diversion..

DL, AA (mainline), UA, and many others have ZERO intention to serve ISP.. The only way new carriers would come is if they build another new terminal or agree to use WN gates and not compete on WN routes... Neither of which has happened yet..


For the record, the "hole in the wall" DL used at ISP 9 years ago was actually the only other jetway equipped gate (at the time, they added one more) on the B side of the terminal, which Frontier now uses. They'd have to either A) use one of the ground boarding gates on the B side or B) they can use one of the 4 gates that WN gave up exclusive/preferential use to not that long ago. Concourse A has 8.5 gates. WN has exclusive or preferential use of 4 of them, not all 8.5 anymore. AA uses A1L, which is a hole in the wall. I think market conditions are becoming conducive for DL to go into ISP again, as I've already mentioned.


For the record, I lived in the "631" for almost 30 years, and worked out of ISP up until a year ago.... I know quite well the WN operation of things.. DL for the last few years has been building up NY, they never came back to ISP.. IMHO the only Delta A/C we will ever see at ISP will be a charter or a diversion... Could it change? The only people who may know are the folks in ATL...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
evank516
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:43 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
AA uses A1L, which is a hole in the wall.

They actually operate from A1 now (and using the jetway) since they have the E145 at ISP


Well that's new. Glad to hear that.

SXDFC wrote:
evank516 wrote:
SXDFC wrote:
Why would DL want to come back to ISP and operate out of the same hole in the wall they did 15 years ago? If they wanted to come back, they would have brokered a deal with Southwest to use one of its gates... They haven’t.. The only Delta metal you’ll ever see at ISP is a charter or a diversion..

DL, AA (mainline), UA, and many others have ZERO intention to serve ISP.. The only way new carriers would come is if they build another new terminal or agree to use WN gates and not compete on WN routes... Neither of which has happened yet..


For the record, the "hole in the wall" DL used at ISP 9 years ago was actually the only other jetway equipped gate (at the time, they added one more) on the B side of the terminal, which Frontier now uses. They'd have to either A) use one of the ground boarding gates on the B side or B) they can use one of the 4 gates that WN gave up exclusive/preferential use to not that long ago. Concourse A has 8.5 gates. WN has exclusive or preferential use of 4 of them, not all 8.5 anymore. AA uses A1L, which is a hole in the wall. I think market conditions are becoming conducive for DL to go into ISP again, as I've already mentioned.



For the record, I lived in the "631" for almost 30 years, and worked out of ISP up until a year ago.... I know quite well the WN operation of things.. DL for the last few years has been building up NY, they never came back to ISP.. IMHO the only Delta A/C we will ever see at ISP will be a charter or a diversion... Could it change? The only people who may know are the folks in ATL...


I live in the "516" now, and have for the majority of my life, and I've used ISP plenty of times since 2000 both on WN and DL. DL as a whole has changed drastically since 2008 when they ended service in ISP. Oil prices were skyrocketing, they just announced their merger with NW, and WN did not have access to LaGuardia yet so their operation at ISP was quite sizeable compared to what it is now, as you very well know. If you take a look at the NY Area as a whole, ISP is the ONLY airport that does not have anything on DL nowadays (LGA, JFK, SWF, EWR, and HPN all have a DL presence). I think the time to watch will be once F9 starts ISP-ATL and ISP-DTW. I'm betting Delta will be watching how it performs as they most likely do with any other airline that launches a new route from one of their hubs. I remember when FL announced SWF in 2006. DL had pulled out of the market a year or two before and within a month of FL's announcement, guess who came flying back in with ATL service? Delta did. If ISP-ATL performs well for F9, I'm betting you'll see Delta metal touching down in ISP again.
 
klm617
Posts: 1648
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:16 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
3x daily 717's to ATL and a daily CR9 to DTW is all I can see happening with ISP any time soon but it's possible. I chose DTW over MSP because DTW caters highly towards the state of NY more than MSP does.


Good point. Yea if Delta came in to ISP, DTW would definitely be RJ, and ATL 1-2x mainline. Maybe 2x mainline (717) along with a CRJ7?


Why would the same not be true for iSP as for SWF . Three RJ flights to DTW would cover the market adequately . Really don't need an ISP-ATL link operate just like SWF
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Balloonchaser
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:58 pm

Im predicting an announcement within a month for ISP about new service.. Dont think it will be Delta Though...
 
evank516
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Could DL return to ISP?

Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:29 pm

klm617 wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
3x daily 717's to ATL and a daily CR9 to DTW is all I can see happening with ISP any time soon but it's possible. I chose DTW over MSP because DTW caters highly towards the state of NY more than MSP does.


Good point. Yea if Delta came in to ISP, DTW would definitely be RJ, and ATL 1-2x mainline. Maybe 2x mainline (717) along with a CRJ7?


Why would the same not be true for iSP as for SWF . Three RJ flights to DTW would cover the market adequately . Really don't need an ISP-ATL link operate just like SWF


Eh, maybe. ATL just accesses more of DL's route network as opposed to just DTW. There's some, but not all. DL seems to like overnighting some of their smaller mainline aircraft at outstations which is why I thought ISP could get at least 1 daily ATL flight, albeit an RON. That would be in addition to DTW though.

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