Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RJNUT wrote:No service drawdown threats are imminent and Term A is mothballed . Not sure what fees are going toward maintaining it other than water and heat. The airlines would not be involved in those costs. They only pay rent on space they use plus landing fees and fuel
evank516 wrote:When is the vote? Tomorrow?
sw733 wrote:I truly doubt any airlines will leave solely because of a no vote. They may not like it, but in the end if they're making money and feel it's worth serving Kansas City (over 2.1 million people, so not small by any means) they won't be leaving. Service just may not grow as much as it would with a new terminal.
TWFlyGuy wrote:Trying to avoid having this sent to the polls forum but curious of what, if any, repercussions there will be if Kansas City, MO residents vote 'No' to a new single terminal. Does anyone know if airlines will make any decisions to draw down service in any way going forward? I have to imagine that on the next agreement for fees airlines may push the cost of the currently closed Terminal A to taxpayers and not use their fees to support a closed terminal. Thoughts?
KCaviator wrote:TWFlyGuy wrote:Trying to avoid having this sent to the polls forum but curious of what, if any, repercussions there will be if Kansas City, MO residents vote 'No' to a new single terminal. Does anyone know if airlines will make any decisions to draw down service in any way going forward? I have to imagine that on the next agreement for fees airlines may push the cost of the currently closed Terminal A to taxpayers and not use their fees to support a closed terminal. Thoughts?
The only repercussions is that the residents and visitors of KC will be stuck with a third world airport if the vote is a “no.”
sw733 wrote:I truly doubt any airlines will leave solely because of a no vote. They may not like it, but in the end if they're making money and feel it's worth serving Kansas City (over 2.1 million people, so not small by any means) they won't be leaving. Service just may not grow as much as it would with a new terminal.
TVNWZ wrote:If the passengers come, so will the airlines. No difference if "no."
TWFlyGuy wrote:TVNWZ wrote:If the passengers come, so will the airlines. No difference if "no."
Except they will be quickly be gate constrained and re-opening Terminal A will become more costly to open for each day it's closed. So any new adds would seemingly be countered with shuttered routes I would think.
TVNWZ wrote:If the passengers come, so will the airlines. No difference if "no."
jubguy3 wrote:TVNWZ wrote:If the passengers come, so will the airlines. No difference if "no."
Thanks but this is not true at all. I'm associated with the SLC terminal reconstruction project and part of the reason that they decided to build the new airport, besides it being structurally unsound, was to increase connection capacity for delta significantly. Delta is constrained with the widebody gates in summer months (D2, D4, D6) because only two can be used at a time for widebody ops. So they have to schedule ATL-SLC, ATL-SLC-HNL, SLC-LHR, SLC-AMS, SLC-CDG and SLC-AMS on KLM within a constrictive amount of space, especially the CDG and AMS flights that are timed for connections and the ATL-SLC-HNL flight that has to arrive in the middle of the day. This is actually why growth has been limited at SLC - there are simply not enough gates even though many of them are open for large parts of the day, especially now that part of the E concourse has been eliminated for the terminal reconstruction project.
So yes, if you have gates, the airlines will come, and so will PAX. The airlines aren't going to exit MCI entirely, but they're certainly going to operate within their means if they don't get the space they want.
Maybe you guys should have been saving money with PFCs. We saved more than a billion dollars over the last few decades... keep costs low and ensure the loyalty of your airlines.
Jshank83 wrote:jubguy3 wrote:TVNWZ wrote:If the passengers come, so will the airlines. No difference if "no."
Thanks but this is not true at all. I'm associated with the SLC terminal reconstruction project and part of the reason that they decided to build the new airport, besides it being structurally unsound, was to increase connection capacity for delta significantly. Delta is constrained with the widebody gates in summer months (D2, D4, D6) because only two can be used at a time for widebody ops. So they have to schedule ATL-SLC, ATL-SLC-HNL, SLC-LHR, SLC-AMS, SLC-CDG and SLC-AMS on KLM within a constrictive amount of space, especially the CDG and AMS flights that are timed for connections and the ATL-SLC-HNL flight that has to arrive in the middle of the day. This is actually why growth has been limited at SLC - there are simply not enough gates even though many of them are open for large parts of the day, especially now that part of the E concourse has been eliminated for the terminal reconstruction project.
So yes, if you have gates, the airlines will come, and so will PAX. The airlines aren't going to exit MCI entirely, but they're certainly going to operate within their means if they don't get the space they want.
Maybe you guys should have been saving money with PFCs. We saved more than a billion dollars over the last few decades... keep costs low and ensure the loyalty of your airlines.
You can hardly compare SLC and MCI. SLC is a major legacy airline hub airport with over twice as many passengers, including lots of connections. MCI has far less passengers and only something like 4% connecting traffic. They have different needs and the airlines at them are expecting different things from each. MCI isn't going to have a shortage of wide body gate issues. They don't have any wide bodies flying there now and probably won't have more than a couple in the future. MCI has the gates now for more flights, it just isn't the best setup. They could accommodate more flights if someone wanted to fly them though.
chalupas54 wrote:I predict that the vote will fail-narrowly. Most New-MCI supporters do not live within the city limits of Kansas City. Most live in Overland Park, Shawnee, etc.
jubguy3 wrote:TVNWZ wrote:If the passengers come, so will the airlines. No difference if "no."
Thanks but this is not true at all. I'm associated with the SLC terminal reconstruction project and part of the reason that they decided to build the new airport, besides it being structurally unsound, was to increase connection capacity for delta significantly. Delta is constrained with the widebody gates in summer months (D2, D4, D6) because only two can be used at a time for widebody ops. So they have to schedule ATL-SLC, ATL-SLC-HNL, SLC-LHR, SLC-AMS, SLC-CDG and SLC-AMS on KLM within a constrictive amount of space, especially the CDG and AMS flights that are timed for connections and the ATL-SLC-HNL flight that has to arrive in the middle of the day. This is actually why growth has been limited at SLC - there are simply not enough gates even though many of them are open for large parts of the day, especially now that part of the E concourse has been eliminated for the terminal reconstruction project.
So yes, if you have gates, the airlines will come, and so will PAX. The airlines aren't going to exit MCI entirely, but they're certainly going to operate within their means if they don't get the space they want.
Maybe you guys should have been saving money with PFCs. We saved more than a billion dollars over the last few decades... keep costs low and ensure the loyalty of your airlines.
jplatts wrote:Southwest has announced plans to serve Cancun nonstop from CMH, IND, and RDU, all of which are much smaller Southwest Airlines stations than MCI is, but Southwest has not announced any plans to serve CUN nonstop from MCI. Southwest adding MCI-CUN nonstop service could possibly happen if the new terminal gets built at MCI.
jplatts wrote:Southwest has announced plans to serve Cancun nonstop from CMH, IND, and RDU, all of which are much smaller Southwest Airlines stations than MCI is, but Southwest has not announced any plans to serve CUN nonstop from MCI. Southwest adding MCI-CUN nonstop service could possibly happen if the new terminal gets built at MCI.
jplatts wrote:Southwest has announced plans to serve Cancun nonstop from CMH, IND, and RDU, all of which are much smaller Southwest Airlines stations than MCI is, but Southwest has not announced any plans to serve CUN nonstop from MCI. Southwest adding MCI-CUN nonstop service could possibly happen if the new terminal gets built at MCI.
chalupas54 wrote:jplatts wrote:Southwest has announced plans to serve Cancun nonstop from CMH, IND, and RDU, all of which are much smaller Southwest Airlines stations than MCI is, but Southwest has not announced any plans to serve CUN nonstop from MCI. Southwest adding MCI-CUN nonstop service could possibly happen if the new terminal gets built at MCI.
Another reminder.
New Terminal does not equal More Flights. This is a huge fallacy being spread by KC media. Do not expect WN to dismantle STL to bring more flights to MCI.
Also, keep in mind MCI posted a deficit in passenger numbers last month. The market is not performing.
chalupas54 wrote:I predict that the vote will fail-narrowly. Most New-MCI supporters do not live within the city limits of Kansas City. Most live in Overland Park, Shawnee, etc.
Jshank83 wrote:jplatts wrote:Southwest has announced plans to serve Cancun nonstop from CMH, IND, and RDU, all of which are much smaller Southwest Airlines stations than MCI is, but Southwest has not announced any plans to serve CUN nonstop from MCI. Southwest adding MCI-CUN nonstop service could possibly happen if the new terminal gets built at MCI.
MCI also already has 3 airlines running that route. That might have something to do with WN not running it from MCI.
KCaviator wrote:jplatts wrote:Southwest has announced plans to serve Cancun nonstop from CMH, IND, and RDU, all of which are much smaller Southwest Airlines stations than MCI is, but Southwest has not announced any plans to serve CUN nonstop from MCI. Southwest adding MCI-CUN nonstop service could possibly happen if the new terminal gets built at MCI.
Are those markets as saturated as MCI’s though? MCI already has AA, DL, and F9, plus AM running charters for what I presume to be vacation/travel companies. While I’m 100% for a new terminal, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s already 3 and a half airlines flying this route.
enilria wrote:In most cases I would argue that the cost of a new terminal actually deters airlines which has happened in DAB/MLB/IND and many others, but MCI is unique because MCI really has a shot of being a connecting hub of some sort with WN or somebody else and the current terminal really prevents that. So, in the case of MCI I think there is clearly benefit from a new terminal for the community. I think if this is voted down it will take away jobs, tourism, etc. from the area that would have been gained by having a facility that could support connecting traffic.
FlyingJhawk wrote:chalupas54 wrote:jplatts wrote:Southwest has announced plans to serve Cancun nonstop from CMH, IND, and RDU, all of which are much smaller Southwest Airlines stations than MCI is, but Southwest has not announced any plans to serve CUN nonstop from MCI. Southwest adding MCI-CUN nonstop service could possibly happen if the new terminal gets built at MCI.
Another reminder.
New Terminal does not equal More Flights. This is a huge fallacy being spread by KC media. Do not expect WN to dismantle STL to bring more flights to MCI.
Also, keep in mind MCI posted a deficit in passenger numbers last month. The market is not performing.
While the previous month was a deficit from August the Year over Year growth in September has risen for years. You can find the stats here...
http://flykci.com/newsroom/statistical- ... tatistics/
sw733 wrote:chalupas54 wrote:I predict that the vote will fail-narrowly. Most New-MCI supporters do not live within the city limits of Kansas City. Most live in Overland Park, Shawnee, etc.
I haven't seen any proof of this at all. I see it pretty mixed around the entire metro area.
chalupas54 wrote:FlyingJhawk wrote:chalupas54 wrote:
Another reminder.
New Terminal does not equal More Flights. This is a huge fallacy being spread by KC media. Do not expect WN to dismantle STL to bring more flights to MCI.
Also, keep in mind MCI posted a deficit in passenger numbers last month. The market is not performing.
While the previous month was a deficit from August the Year over Year growth in September has risen for years. You can find the stats here...
http://flykci.com/newsroom/statistical- ... tatistics/
Even with that, the growth occurring in the MCI market is not keeping up with peer airports. To deny there is a market problem in Kansas City is covering up an issue. American, Southwest, Allegiant, and Frontier have all cut frequencies and flights out of MCI. To blame it on the airport facility is an excuse. Even as airport officials at MCI have said: There is currently nothing preventing an airline from operating at MCI. The cuts are market-based. Anyone trying to convice otherwise is being deceptive. I do believe MCI needs a new terminal. However, I believe it is being sold for the wrong reasons.
sw733 wrote:ITT: Kansas City should get a new airport so that a fifth airline can start seasonal, 1x weekly service to Cancun...
chalupas54 wrote:sw733 wrote:chalupas54 wrote:I predict that the vote will fail-narrowly. Most New-MCI supporters do not live within the city limits of Kansas City. Most live in Overland Park, Shawnee, etc.
I haven't seen any proof of this at all. I see it pretty mixed around the entire metro area.
I should have rephrased this. The most vocal opponents of the airport live in the city limits. The most vocal supporters do not appear to.
LuvMoreMCI wrote:New terminal vote passes 70 to 30%. Southwest donations help support passage. I wonder when terminal is complete, will they restore flights to RDU. SMF, PVD they had in the 90s when it was an unofficial focus city for WN during the MDW rebuild.
Jshank83 wrote:jplatts wrote:Southwest has announced plans to serve Cancun nonstop from CMH, IND, and RDU, all of which are much smaller Southwest Airlines stations than MCI is, but Southwest has not announced any plans to serve CUN nonstop from MCI. Southwest adding MCI-CUN nonstop service could possibly happen if the new terminal gets built at MCI.
MCI also already has 3 airlines running that route. That might have something to do with WN not running it from MCI.