Why no IAH-HKG on UA or CX?

FoxtrotSierra · Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:37 am

IAH is unique in the variety of airlines/destinations it has, but has a glaring exception: HKG. NRT, PEK, ICN, TPE, and SIN are already served, but not HKG. IAH gets good coverage from UA and its partners, but I must say I'm surprised HKG is not served yet. Will IAH ever see CX or IAH-HKG from UA?

hz747300 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:09 am

A couple of things, since SIN is more commodities & energy oriented than HKG, that removes any oil ties that drives a lot of the traffic from other airlines and makes sense that SIN is served whilst HKG is not. Secondly, DFW is served, and HKG is a OneWorld base which would have the funnel traffic to Latin and South America on American. I don't see a specific need that IAH offers over what already exists in other markets for HKG.

TC957 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:30 am

Could be doable with UA 789's, think the 77W may be payload restricted on that ULR route.

IAHflyer97 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:37 am

If you listen carefully, you can hear LAXdude’s teeth grinding right now...

But to answer your question, not nearly a big enough market and there aren’t any alliance ties to justify it. That, and TPE on BR pretty much has it covered. Then throw in NH and UA on NRT and SQ on IAH-MAN-SIN and the entire market is pretty full.

Fastphilly · Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:44 am

Hong Kong is a financial market driven city while Houston is energy. The two don't mix

thomasphoto60 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:09 am

IAHflyer97 wrote:
If you listen carefully, you can hear LAXdude’s teeth grinding right now....

That was the first thing that came to my mind when I read this. I doubt he'll reply to this as he is probably exhausted from responding to this topic over and over but who knows, should be entertaining should he decide to weigh in.

MIflyer12 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:39 am

FoxtrotSierra wrote:
IAH is unique in the variety of airlines/destinations it has, but has a glaring exception: HKG. NRT, PEK, ICN, TPE, and SIN are already served, but not HKG. IAH gets good coverage from UA and its partners, but I must say I'm surprised HKG is not served yet. Will IAH ever see CX or IAH-HKG from UA?

NRT is Star Alliance partner ANA's hub.

PEK is Star Alliance partner Air China's hub.

ICN is Star Alliance partner Asiana's hub.

TPE is Star Alliance partner Eva Air's hub.

SIN is Star Alliance partner SQ's hub.

It's been discussed in other online forums that owners may plant a poster to ask questions just to raise the site's view and post count, to attract advertisers. Your capacity for lazy, child-like questions appears infinite.

alggag · Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:42 am

There is no nonstop service on IAH-ICN.

zakuivcustom · Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:13 pm

As much as my family would love such a flight, it is still a long, thin route with demand, I would say, mostly in VFR category (not necessary HKG, but the like of MNL or SGN).

Another problem would be both CX and UA would only have feed on one side but not the other. Compare this AA's DFW-HKG, where it can serve both DFW-ASEAN (and HK and to certain extent, part of Mainland China) and Central US or S America <-> HKG traffic; not just one but not the other.

hohd · Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:35 pm

DFW to HKG has no bearing on a potential IAH to HKG flight. I think HKG is probably the only large city in Asia now which lacks non stop flight to IAH. You can add ICN to the list, but HKG appears to have more potential. Recently flew to HKG from IAH, I was surprised at the number of connecting passengers on Air china to HKG, I counted more than 50 on my flight, there could be more on other Air china HKG flights and that is just Air china, I am sure lot more connect using Eva or United or other airlines via LAX.

stlgph · Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:38 pm

Fastphilly wrote:
Hong Kong is a financial market driven city while Houston is energy. The two don't mix

Is it April 1?

B737900ER · Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:17 pm

Whoever is willing to settle with low yield Vietnamese and Philippine trash fares, and duke it out with BR and Air China over them will enter the market.

notconcerned · Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:23 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
ICN is Star Alliance partner Asiana's hub.

OZ never flew ICN-IAH, it was always served by KE who ended service just last month.

hohd wrote:
DFW to HKG has no bearing on a potential IAH to HKG flight. I think HKG is probably the only large city in Asia now which lacks non stop flight to IAH. You can add ICN to the list, but HKG appears to have more potential. Recently flew to HKG from IAH, I was surprised at the number of connecting passengers on Air china to HKG, I counted more than 50 on my flight, there could be more on other Air china HKG flights and that is just Air china, I am sure lot more connect using Eva or United or other airlines via LAX.

PVG is another major city not served by IAH. But as many others have stated, IAH is already well served with connections to NRT, PEK, TPE and multiple 1-stop options (along with SFO connections).

LAXdude1023 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:10 pm

IAHflyer97 wrote:
If you listen carefully, you can hear LAXdude’s teeth grinding right now...

But to answer your question, not nearly a big enough market and there aren’t any alliance ties to justify it. That, and TPE on BR pretty much has it covered. Then throw in NH and UA on NRT and SQ on IAH-MAN-SIN and the entire market is pretty full.

Teeth grinding, nah. Eyes rolling, yes.

But you covered the reasons why it wont work so I dont need to do it.

TWA772LR · Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:25 pm

IAH-HKG is one of my pipe dreams as was IAH-SYD which is starting in January.

If only this kind of stuff ran off my pipe dreams. :biggrin:

In regards to IAH-ICN, I hope UA moves in on that. A 788 is the perfect plane for the route versus KE's 77E/W combo with no feed in IAH.

toxtethogrady · Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:37 pm

DFW-HKG would not exist without OneWorld. As the Etihad experience seems to have confirmed, DFW is not much of an international market without AA's support.

toxtethogrady · Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:39 pm

notconcerned wrote:
PVG is another major city not served by IAH. But as many others have stated, IAH is already well served with connections to NRT, PEK, TPE and multiple 1-stop options (along with SFO connections).

The rumors of China Eastern persist...

Fastphilly · Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:53 pm

stlgph wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:
Hong Kong is a financial market driven city while Houston is energy. The two don't mix

Is it April 1?

You seem to know little about global business/ ties. Please tell me about the large financial business sector in Houston? I'll wait.

stlgph · Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:25 pm

Fastphilly wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:
Hong Kong is a financial market driven city while Houston is energy. The two don't mix

Is it April 1?

You seem to know little about global business/ ties. Please tell me about the large financial business sector in Houston? I'll wait.

I helped establish Bloomberg New Energy Finance in 2004. Remained there until 2014.
You?

3....2....1.....go.

Fastphilly · Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:41 pm

It's an analytic data firm. I am referring to the banking industry. Houston is weak in that sector. Hong Kong is the financial hub of the Far East. So where are these high yield passengers in the Houston area that are filling the front of the plane as it relates to the financial business sector? Hong Kong is not a player in the energy sector.

toxtethogrady · Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:56 pm

Fastphilly wrote:
I am referring to the banking industry. Houston is weak in that sector.

Texas hasn't had much of a banking sector since its banks went belly-up in the late '80s. Houston has a large delegation of foreign banks, for whatever that's worth.

But Hong Kong is more than just finance. HKG is a global hub and the largest air cargo transit point in the world. It has the access to parts of China and Asia that other cities don't have. Thus it is reasonable to expect that any large major metropolitan areas in the US will eventually be joined to HKG.

RL777 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:01 pm

toxtethogrady wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:
I am referring to the banking industry. Houston is weak in that sector.

Texas hasn't had much of a banking sector since its banks went belly-up in the late '80s. Houston has a large delegation of foreign banks, for whatever that's worth.

But Hong Kong is more than just finance. HKG is a global hub and the largest air cargo transit point in the world. It has the access to parts of China and Asia that other cities don't have. Thus it is reasonable to expect that any large major metropolitan areas in the US will eventually be joined to HKG.

In terms of cargo, CX serve IAH with the 748F. That's probably enough to satisfy the demand for air freight out of IAH to HKG.

stlgph · Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:01 pm

Yep. I worked at BNEF, a analytic data services firm. So we'll play a fun little game.
It's called never have I ever.

Never have I ever done any business with Siemens Energy Financing, Pearl Energy Investments, Deloitte Energy & Resources Investments, Energy Impact Partners, EnCap Energy Investments, MPG Petroleum Investments, Oppenheimer, Aresco, Kayne Anderson, PetroChase, Porter Green Partners, Credit Suisse Investment Banking, Deutsche Energy Bank, CIT Investment Banking, Sica Wealth Management, Prestige Economics, The Schork Group, Stone & McCarthy, Jefferies, Capital One, Barclays, JPMC, GS/MS, BAML, XTO Energy, Royal Bank of Canada, Athlon Energy, Evercore, Bank of Nova Scotia, Societe General, Macquarie Specialised Investment Solutions, HK Electric Investments, Wells Fargo, Fitch Group, Credit Agricole, UBS, CBRE, Capital Group, Morgan McKinley, GE Capital Partners, Prudential, Jack Morton, SIRIUS Partners, HSBC, Albert Cliff, IHS Markit, Michael Page, Standard Chartered Bank, GCL-Poly

Nope. Never. Especially since working in data & analytics, you know, I would know nothing about the data and analytics related to the topic at hand.

And nevermind the fact that 130 new careers were posted *TODAY* for finance related careers entirely focusing on oil/gas/energy ....*in* Hong Kong ... on one of the top financial industry job posting boards.

Never have I ever read that, either.

I love this game. I'm hoping for Spin the Bottle next.

Fastphilly · Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:06 pm

stlgph wrote:
Yep. I worked at BNEF, a analytic data services firm. So we'll play a fun little game.
It's called never have I ever.

Never have I ever done any business with Siemens Energy Financing, Pearl Energy Investments, Deloitte Energy & Resources Investments, Energy Impact Partners, EnCap Energy Investments, MPG Petroleum Investments, Oppenheimer, Aresco, Kayne Anderson, PetroChase, Porter Green Partners, Credit Suisse Investment Banking, Deutsche Energy Bank, CIT Investment Banking, Sica Wealth Management, Prestige Economics, The Schork Group, Stone & McCarthy, Jefferies, Capital One, Barclays, JPMC, GS/MS, BAML, XTO Energy, Royal Bank of Canada, Athlon Energy, Evercore, Bank of Nova Scotia, Societe General, Macquarie Specialised Investment Solutions, HK Electric Investments, Wells Fargo, Fitch Group, Credit Agricole, UBS, CBRE, Capital Group, Morgan McKinley, GE Capital Partners, Prudential, Jack Morton, SIRIUS Partners, HSBC, Albert Cliff, IHS Markit, Michael Page, Standard Chartered Bank, GCL-Poly

Nope. Never. Especially since working in data & analytics, you know, I would know nothing about the data and analytics related to the topic at hand.

And nevermind the fact that 130 new careers were posted *TODAY* for finance related careers entirely focusing on oil/gas/energy ....*in* Hong Kong ... on one of the top financial industry job posting boards.

Never have I ever read that, either.

I love this game. I'm hoping for Spin the Bottle next.

1. IAH is *A while HKG is OW
2. UA has a HUGE TPAC hub at SFO that provides one stop from IAH to HKG.
3. Houston's international tourism draw is miniscule compared to other large U.S markets.
4. You are overrating the size of Houston's financial business climate to a point of being laughable.

Go ahead and spin it.

NichCage · Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:06 pm

What market is IAH-SYD serving? I would never expect UA to launch IAH-SYD in the first place but I assume there must be a lot of demand.

If NZ flies IAH-AKL there must be a lot of onward Australian traffic I assume.

Also, why does EVA Air serve IAH? What market is there for the airline in IAH?

LAXdude1023 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:08 pm

toxtethogrady wrote:
DFW-HKG would not exist without OneWorld. As the Etihad experience seems to have confirmed, DFW is not much of an international market without AA's support.

What? You drew the conclusion based on that?

IAH has about 4 million international O&D passengers a year, DFW has about 3 million. IAH is certainly bigger, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Without AA (and talking only long haul flights), DFW could support NRT, ICN, LHR, CDG, FRA, DXB, and MAD no problem. PEK, PVG, HKG, EZE, etc. are a different story. Then again, without UA and the Star Alliance, BR and TK wouldnt be in Houston. Thats the point of hubs. You channel the energy of the local market.

As to this topic, there is one destination IAH is missing in the Far East and its PVG. There are a grand total of zero good reasons for IAH-HKG to be a thing. IAH-PVG is a sizable market that would allow the hub to help funnel passengers from Latin America as well. Also if OZ wants to take a crack at IAH-ICN, it might work but they are not an aggressive airline and are probably put off by KE's failure.

zakuivcustom · Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:07 pm

NichCage wrote:
What market is IAH-SYD serving? I would never expect UA to launch IAH-SYD in the first place but I assume there must be a lot of demand.

If NZ flies IAH-AKL there must be a lot of onward Australian traffic I assume.

Also, why does EVA Air serve IAH? What market is there for the airline in IAH?

Umm...similar to DFW-SYD, IAH-SYD is filled up with connection to much of Central or even Eastern US.

As for BR - I would say chiefly Taiwan O&D (Fair amount of Taiwanese business in greater Houston area), ASEAN VFR traffic (Mainly Vietnamese and Filipinos), and even HKG connection. And BR is not even the first Taiwanese airline to fly to IAH anyway. CI used to served IAH (via SEA), and that was back when the Asian population in Houston is nowhere near it is now.

LAXdude1023 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:21 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
NichCage wrote:
What market is IAH-SYD serving? I would never expect UA to launch IAH-SYD in the first place but I assume there must be a lot of demand.

If NZ flies IAH-AKL there must be a lot of onward Australian traffic I assume.

Also, why does EVA Air serve IAH? What market is there for the airline in IAH?

Umm...similar to DFW-SYD, IAH-SYD is filled up with connection to much of Central or even Eastern US.

As for BR - I would say chiefly Taiwan O&D (Fair amount of Taiwanese business in greater Houston area), ASEAN VFR traffic (Mainly Vietnamese and Filipinos), and even HKG connection. And BR is not even the first Taiwanese airline to fly to IAH anyway. CI used to served IAH (via SEA), and that was back when the Asian population in Houston is nowhere near it is now.

No, EVA doesnt cater to much O&D from Houston. Y is full of connections to MNL and SGN mostly. J is full of business travel to Malaysia, Indonesia and especially SIN.

tjh8402 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:52 pm

NichCage wrote:
What market is IAH-SYD serving? I would never expect UA to launch IAH-SYD in the first place but I assume there must be a lot of demand.

If NZ flies IAH-AKL there must be a lot of onward Australian traffic I assume.

Also, why does EVA Air serve IAH? What market is there for the airline in IAH?

IAH-SYD is like DFW-SYD: it gives much of the southern/eastern/central US one stop service to SYD where it may not previously exist, or makes it more convenient than LAX and SFO. Those regions of the country have plenty of one stop options to HKG already through BOS, JFK, ORD, EWR, not to mention DFW.

LAXintl · Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:05 am

Considering United has specifically called out market softness in HKG market the last two quarters, I do not see them adding a link from IAH anytime soon.

Anyhow before IAH route, UA per employee townhall wants to put more routes into LAX, and HKG was one of the markets mentioned they looked at before going with SIN nonstop first.

zakuivcustom · Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:23 am

LAXintl wrote:
Considering United has specifically called out market softness in HKG market the last two quarters, I do not see them adding a link from IAH anytime soon.

Anyhow before IAH route, UA per employee townhall wants to put more routes into LAX, and HKG was one of the markets mentioned they looked at before going with SIN nonstop first.

While a UA LAX-HKG would be good for UA FF at LAX, I just don't see how much market share they can really get with CX dominating the route alongside AA. Not to mention, UA has been cutting back LAX for most part, I don't see them suddenly go back to expansion mode.

jshcmh · Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:57 am

IAHflyer97 wrote:
If you listen carefully, you can hear LAXdude’s teeth grinding right now...

But to answer your question, not nearly a big enough market and there aren’t any alliance ties to justify it. That, and TPE on BR pretty much has it covered. Then throw in NH and UA on NRT and SQ on IAH-MAN-SIN and the entire market is pretty full.

FoxtrotSierra · Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:35 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Without AA (and talking only long haul flights), DFW could support NRT, ICN, LHR, CDG, FRA, DXB, and MAD no problem.

I must admit that that I have my doubts about this. Without AA, DFW is basically AUS, with one or two Euro routes. If IAH didn't have UA/Star, it would still have at least a large number of the routes it has today because IAH's O/D is stronger than DFW.

zakuivcustom · Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:49 am

FoxtrotSierra wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Without AA (and talking only long haul flights), DFW could support NRT, ICN, LHR, CDG, FRA, DXB, and MAD no problem.

I must admit that that I have my doubts about this. Without AA, DFW is basically AUS, with one or two Euro routes. If IAH didn't have UA/Star, it would still have at least a large number of the routes it has today because IAH's O/D is stronger than DFW.

Umm...DFW is only the what? 7th largest metro area in US? LHR, FRA, then CDG are almost certainly will be there one way or another.

(Seriously, what's with people here thinking that AUS is that big? It's still only 1/3 the size of DFW when it comes to population).

Fastphilly · Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:59 am

FoxtrotSierra wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Without AA (and talking only long haul flights), DFW could support NRT, ICN, LHR, CDG, FRA, DXB, and MAD no problem.

I must admit that that I have my doubts about this. Without AA, DFW is basically AUS, with one or two Euro routes. If IAH didn't have UA/Star, it would still have at least a large number of the routes it has today because IAH's O/D is stronger than DFW.

The Dallas Metroplex is a large enough metro to sustain service to the largest international trunk routes ( LHR, CDG, FRA, ICN, DXB and HND/NRT) without AA hub feed. It's the HKG, PVG and SYD that would suffer.

Same can be said of Houston, most of the foreign birds at IAH are alliance carriers. With no United feed, Houston wouldn't have but a few trunk routes as well and any flight beyond Hawaii (except Tokyo) would require a connection at LAX or SFO.

hz747300 · Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:35 am

Sure, there are traders in Energy futures and probably even some energy related jobs. But the energy companies, ie, the ones that drive Houston's economy are not based in HKG. They would be in China directly, I've met some from Americans who were holidaying in HKG but lived in Chengdu, or Singapore. Heck, the PLATTS sales guy only comes to HKG from Singapore once a month usually to relieve stress at Goodfellas. I know it is tricky, but trading financial products on Energy is different than being in the energy business.

Also, let me add, that if it were really in high demand, someone would be flying the route. When fly home to PHX via pretty much any city on the west coast, I can count 10 (low season, summer) - 50 (high season, Xmas, etc...) people that were on my first flight that are on my Phoenix flight. But that does not mean a route can be supported.

I do agree on something. Let's pretend that Hong Kong Airlines joins the Star Alliance; then I think this route happens. And it could be used feed low yielding SE Asian travelers to Houston via HKG on the one side, and on UA from IAH and beyond on the other.

LAX772LR · Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:54 am

Fastphilly wrote:
1. IAH is *A while HKG is OW

Doesn't mean much. EWR is also Star, but CX went in anyway, despite having multiple frequencies right "next door"
Same for SFO, though sorta funny to think that SFO would need Star feed to make HKG work, considering its massive O&D.

zakuivcustom wrote:
While a UA LAX-HKG would be good for UA FF at LAX, I just don't see how much market share they can really get with CX dominating the route alongside AA. Not to mention, UA has been cutting back LAX for most part, I don't see them suddenly go back to expansion mode.

That, and Hong Kong Airlines is about to launch as well, and FINALLY bring the A350 to LAX.

Sidebar: I've always assumed they'd partner with Alaska, due to Hainan's relationship, but I guess that's a poor assumption to make.

Sorta shocked that DL hasn't tried to build a relationship with them, as that'd bolster their historic weakness in the HKG market, it seems.

zakuivcustom · Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:05 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:
1. IAH is *A while HKG is OW

Doesn't mean much. EWR is also Star, but CX went in anyway, despite having multiple frequencies right "next door"
Same for SFO, though sorta funny to think that SFO would need Star feed to make HKG work, considering its massive O&D.

zakuivcustom wrote:
While a UA LAX-HKG would be good for UA FF at LAX, I just don't see how much market share they can really get with CX dominating the route alongside AA. Not to mention, UA has been cutting back LAX for most part, I don't see them suddenly go back to expansion mode.

That, and Hong Kong Airlines is about to launch as well, and FINALLY bring the A350 to LAX.

Sidebar: I've always assumed they'd partner with Alaska, due to Hainan's relationship, but I guess that's a poor assumption to make.

Sorta shocked that DL hasn't tried to build a relationship with them, as that'd bolster their historic weakness in the HKG market, it seems.

As for EWR - I would say that it is similar to CX's LGW flight, where the demand is enough to add an additional flight to a more "secondary" airport.

And I actually forgot about HX. Was looking at their fare myself just to see if they will decrease the price enough for me to justified taking a huge detour that way going back to HKG. So far, not really.

HX is more or less relying on O&D from SFO (starting sometime next year after LAX) and LAX, though. We will see how they do.

blockski · Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:37 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Considering United has specifically called out market softness in HKG market the last two quarters, I do not see them adding a link from IAH anytime soon.

Anyhow before IAH route, UA per employee townhall wants to put more routes into LAX, and HKG was one of the markets mentioned they looked at before going with SIN nonstop first.

Plus, ORD is already there in position for UA to get connections to HKG from IAH and other places nearby.

hohd · Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:01 pm

I don't see UA even considering a flight to HKG, PVG more likely than HKG. But some one like Hong Kong airlines might start service. Everyone is only looking at connections on the IAH side, but in reality most of the connections are in Hong Kong, to China and SE Asia.

LAXdude1023 · Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:49 pm

FoxtrotSierra wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Without AA (and talking only long haul flights), DFW could support NRT, ICN, LHR, CDG, FRA, DXB, and MAD no problem.

I must admit that that I have my doubts about this. Without AA, DFW is basically AUS, with one or two Euro routes. If IAH didn't have UA/Star, it would still have at least a large number of the routes it has today because IAH's O/D is stronger than DFW.

Because comparing an international O&D market with 3 million yearly passengers to one that has 500k international O&D passengers is totally apples to apples.

Comparing DFW to AUS is like comparing DFW to SFO. Completely different markets..

toxtethogrady · Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:26 pm

I think AUS in this case means American US, which makes more sense...

rta · Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:44 pm

FoxtrotSierra wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Without AA (and talking only long haul flights), DFW could support NRT, ICN, LHR, CDG, FRA, DXB, and MAD no problem.

I must admit that that I have my doubts about this. Without AA, DFW is basically AUS, with one or two Euro routes. If IAH didn't have UA/Star, it would still have at least a large number of the routes it has today because IAH's O/D is stronger than DFW.

I doubt that. The DFW metro is larger than the Houston metro.

Anyway - assuming the market could handle it, isn't HKG slot restricted? And perhaps the airlines have already allocated their planes elsewhere? At the end of the day, it comes down to competing priorities, and while such a route could work, the airlines might have better places to utilize their assets.

I don't think IAH/HKG could survive solely on O&D traffic by itself. But in UA's case, they're routing connecting through their other 3 flights to HKG that might otherwise not do as well by itself. It's not just about Houston - they have to consider how it'll affect the entire network.

LAXdude1023 · Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:58 pm

rta wrote:
FoxtrotSierra wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Without AA (and talking only long haul flights), DFW could support NRT, ICN, LHR, CDG, FRA, DXB, and MAD no problem.

I must admit that that I have my doubts about this. Without AA, DFW is basically AUS, with one or two Euro routes. If IAH didn't have UA/Star, it would still have at least a large number of the routes it has today because IAH's O/D is stronger than DFW.

I doubt that. The DFW metro is larger than the Houston metro.

Anyway - assuming the market could handle it, isn't HKG slot restricted? And perhaps the airlines have already allocated their planes elsewhere? At the end of the day, it comes down to competing priorities, and while such a route could work, the airlines might have better places to utilize their assets.

I don't think IAH/HKG could survive solely on O&D traffic by itself. But in UA's case, they're routing connecting through their other 3 flights to HKG that might otherwise not do as well by itself. It's not just about Houston - they have to consider how it'll affect the entire network.

IAH does have more international O&D. IAH has about 4 million international O&D passengers and DFW has about 3 million. Either way, IAH and DFW are much more comparable than DFW and AUS.

zakuivcustom · Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:43 pm

blockski wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Considering United has specifically called out market softness in HKG market the last two quarters, I do not see them adding a link from IAH anytime soon.

Anyhow before IAH route, UA per employee townhall wants to put more routes into LAX, and HKG was one of the markets mentioned they looked at before going with SIN nonstop first.

Plus, ORD is already there in position for UA to get connections to HKG from IAH and other places nearby.

Well, technically IAH-SFO-HKG is shorter than IAH-ORD-HKG. I've actually seen all 3 combinations, however (the two mentioned along with IAH-EWR-HKG), plus IAH-NRT-HKG via UA and NH.

rta wrote:
FoxtrotSierra wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Without AA (and talking only long haul flights), DFW could support NRT, ICN, LHR, CDG, FRA, DXB, and MAD no problem.

I must admit that that I have my doubts about this. Without AA, DFW is basically AUS, with one or two Euro routes. If IAH didn't have UA/Star, it would still have at least a large number of the routes it has today because IAH's O/D is stronger than DFW.

I doubt that. The DFW metro is larger than the Houston metro.

Anyway - assuming the market could handle it, isn't HKG slot restricted? And perhaps the airlines have already allocated their planes elsewhere? At the end of the day, it comes down to competing priorities, and while such a route could work, the airlines might have better places to utilize their assets.

I don't think IAH/HKG could survive solely on O&D traffic by itself. But in UA's case, they're routing connecting through their other 3 flights to HKG that might otherwise not do as well by itself. It's not just about Houston - they have to consider how it'll affect the entire network.

SFO and EWR can handle a flight from O&D alone (I mean, CX has 3 daily flights to SFO for a reason, while greater NYC has 3 JFK flights, 1 EWR flight daily on CX plus the UA flight). The ORD-HKG flight, maybe, but it can still draw from the whole Midwest.

hohd wrote:
I don't see UA even considering a flight to HKG, PVG more likely than HKG. But some one like Hong Kong airlines might start service. Everyone is only looking at connections on the IAH side, but in reality most of the connections are in Hong Kong, to China and SE Asia.

Well, except BR already took most of the SE Asia connection traffic as-is. CA to PEK can take care of most of the Chinese connection (HKG itself is not exactly that great in terms of location to provide US<->Mainland connection. 90% of the traffic required a lengthy backtrack).

As for HX, I would say YYZ next then JFK or EWR. There's also London for them, although they'll have to find a slot somewhere if they want to go into LHR.

Either way, though, I don't see IAH as anywhere close to being high on their priority list. In another 5 years, maybe.

CHI2DFW · Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:58 am

And I thought the DTW fan club was bad!

IAH is a Star hub. CX is OneWold and served 200 miles north at DFW via AA.

KE failed miserably on IAH-ICN. HKG will do better?

IAH-HKG is even longer with minimal O&D. Cheap fares could support MNL and Vietnam, but that is back tracking and KE with a more direct route failed.

Say Deep South America? Look at the maps, DFW is a joke too.

zakuivcustom · Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:45 am

CHI2DFW wrote:
And I thought the DTW fan club was bad!

IAH is a Star hub. CX is OneWold and served 200 miles north at DFW via AA.

KE failed miserably on IAH-ICN. HKG will do better?

IAH-HKG is even longer with minimal O&D. Cheap fares could support MNL and Vietnam, but that is back tracking and KE with a more direct route failed.

Say Deep South America? Look at the maps, DFW is a joke too.

IAH-HKG-SGN is definitely not back tracking (HKG is actually right on the great circle route). On the other hand, yes, yield is not going to be that great.

And how is DFW a joke when it comes to South America connection anyway? It's not really that much worse compare to the other options (LAX to western S. America, either ME3 or the like of ET for Brazil).

Other than that, though, no, IAH-HKG is still a very long, thin route. That and UA certainly hasn't prioritized TPAC flights from IAH (They have what? NRT? That flight exist since CO day), then CX still has a ton of other holes to fill in US before they'll reach IAH.

P.S. I found AUS fan club worse. After that would be your IND/CMH/STL/(insert random mid-size MIdwest cities here) fanclub.

aemoreira1981 · Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:45 am

The real glaring question should be why no EWR to ICN on UA, given that seasonally, OZ flies an A388 to JFK as O&D (it downgrades to a B772 in the winter). Both are Star Alliance hubs, although that would compete against the DL/KE joint venture which is double daily from JFK. (From EWR, UA serves HKG, PVG, PEK, and NRT, but amazingly not ICN.)

zakuivcustom · Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:01 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The real glaring question should be why no EWR to ICN on UA, given that seasonally, OZ flies an A388 to JFK as O&D (it downgrades to a B772 in the winter). Both are Star Alliance hubs, although that would compete against the DL/KE joint venture which is double daily from JFK. (From EWR, UA serves HKG, PVG, PEK, and NRT, but amazingly not ICN.)

It's partly how weak UA is in ICN, partly the fact that EWR is an ex-CO hub, and CO doesn't even fly to Seoul. Then there's the fact that UA and OZ are definitely nowhere as close as UA and NH.

LAX772LR · Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:32 am

CHI2DFW wrote:
Cheap fares could support MNL and Vietnam, but that is back tracking and KE with a more direct route failed.

There's a whopping 2nm difference between IAH-HKG-SGN and IAH-ICN-SGN.....

zakuivcustom wrote:
It's partly how weak UA is in ICN, partly the fact that EWR is an ex-CO hub, and CO doesn't even fly to Seoul.

CO doesn't fly to much of anywhere, nowadays.

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