LAX772LR wrote:

Pengaea wrote:

Huh. So... the US and HKSAR could theoretically negotiate an open-skies agreement, then?

If they wanted to.

Pengaea wrote:

I wonder why there hasn't been an agreement since. They did "express their intention to meet again to review bilateral air services agreements in 2005."

What'd really be in it for the HKG side?

Almost every US city with significant demand to HKG already has a nonstop... the glaring exceptions being IAH (proximity to DFW, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a CX A350 on HKG-IAH at some point) and even more so MIA, where CX has even asked the OEMs to build it a plane that could make the distance with the payload it wants.

MAH4546 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

Pengaea wrote:

Huh. So... the US and HKSAR could theoretically negotiate an open-skies agreement, then?

If they wanted to.

Pengaea wrote:

I wonder why there hasn't been an agreement since. They did "express their intention to meet again to review bilateral air services agreements in 2005."

What'd really be in it for the HKG side?

Almost every US city with significant demand to HKG already has a nonstop... the glaring exceptions being IAH (proximity to DFW, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a CX A350 on HKG-IAH at some point) and even more so MIA, where CX has even asked the OEMs to build it a plane that could make the distance with the payload it wants.

IAHHKG does not have significant demand. WAS and MIA are the largest HKG markets without service, then ATL and LAS.

777Mech wrote:

miaami wrote:

Rumors of new Miami to Tokyo service could be announced soon.

https://www.thenextmiami.com/miami-tour ... ines-soon/

We have been hearing this rumor for many years, hopefully it becomes a reality soon.

Not this again... this is up there with the "Boeing restarting the 757 line" threads..

DL757NYC wrote:

Nothing compares to the 757 line restarting look at the reaction the 767 line restarting got. I was waiting for the 757 to come up but no one wants to be made fun of.

BoeingGuy wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

DocLightning wrote:

And 64 nmi shorter than SYD-LAX.

Is there terrain challenges? SYD-LAX has been flown nonstop for decades since the SP days with 744, 772ER, 77W, 789- why is equipment a concern?

You haven’t been to Florida much? The highest point in the entire state is like as high as a freeway overpass. No terrain issues at MIA. None at NRT either. I think people don’t realize this is no farther than the other flights mentioned.

maortega15 wrote:

An A350 could do it with full pax and some cargo from HKG.

Can Miami become the new Hawaii for the Japanese?!

clrd4t8koff wrote:

What's the average O&D between MIA-TYO?

More than 415,000 travelers made connecting flights between Asia and Miami in 2015, which ranked Miami 15th among all US cities.

“Our research has shown that our passengers here don’t really care where they transfer from – if they’re going to Hong Kong, they don’t mind transferring to Tokyo, for example. So we’re working very hard just to get the first one, and then the others will fall in line,” he said.

Antarius wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

What's the average O&D between MIA-TYO?

From this article

More than 415,000 travelers made connecting flights between Asia and Miami in 2015, which ranked Miami 15th among all US cities.

That includes all of Asia.. so don't think Tokyo would be a huge number.

Although, this article also says

“Our research has shown that our passengers here don’t really care where they transfer from – if they’re going to Hong Kong, they don’t mind transferring to Tokyo, for example. So we’re working very hard just to get the first one, and then the others will fall in line,” he said.

Which I do not understand. Why would MIA-NRT-HKG make any more sense than MIA-DFW-HKG? If you are going to connect, then does it make a difference where?

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Antarius wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

What's the average O&D between MIA-TYO?

From this article

More than 415,000 travelers made connecting flights between Asia and Miami in 2015, which ranked Miami 15th among all US cities.

That includes all of Asia.. so don't think Tokyo would be a huge number.

Although, this article also says

“Our research has shown that our passengers here don’t really care where they transfer from – if they’re going to Hong Kong, they don’t mind transferring to Tokyo, for example. So we’re working very hard just to get the first one, and then the others will fall in line,” he said.

Which I do not understand. Why would MIA-NRT-HKG make any more sense than MIA-DFW-HKG? If you are going to connect, then does it make a difference where?

I completely agree. MIA-TYO O&D seems like it's too small to be profitable on its own that it would have to rely on lots of connections. But the majority of those connections are available today via multiple US destinations. Not sure why anyone would want to connect in NRT to other Asian cities when they'd have to go through security and immigration, whereas connecting via a US city they could go just go right to the HGK, PVG, PEK etc gate. It would only make sense for those smaller second tier Asian cities and how many PPDEW would that be...5?

adamh8297 wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Antarius wrote:

From this article



That includes all of Asia.. so don't think Tokyo would be a huge number.

Although, this article also says


Which I do not understand. Why would MIA-NRT-HKG make any more sense than MIA-DFW-HKG? If you are going to connect, then does it make a difference where?

I completely agree. MIA-TYO O&D seems like it's too small to be profitable on its own that it would have to rely on lots of connections. But the majority of those connections are available today via multiple US destinations. Not sure why anyone would want to connect in NRT to other Asian cities when they'd have to go through security and immigration, whereas connecting via a US city they could go just go right to the HGK, PVG, PEK etc gate. It would only make sense for those smaller second tier Asian cities and how many PPDEW would that be...5?

Of that 400K+ going to Asia that would include TLV right???? That would be a significant portion that wouldn't connect in East Asia. Also, that number includes any stimulation (Mid-East/Sub-Continent/SE Asia) from QR entering in 2014.

clrd4t8koff wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

I completely agree. MIA-TYO O&D seems like it's too small to be profitable on its own that it would have to rely on lots of connections. But the majority of those connections are available today via multiple US destinations. Not sure why anyone would want to connect in NRT to other Asian cities when they'd have to go through security and immigration, whereas connecting via a US city they could go just go right to the HGK, PVG, PEK etc gate. It would only make sense for those smaller second tier Asian cities and how many PPDEW would that be...5?

Of that 400K+ going to Asia that would include TLV right???? That would be a significant portion that wouldn't connect in East Asia. Also, that number includes any stimulation (Mid-East/Sub-Continent/SE Asia) from QR entering in 2014.

Good point. I totally forgot to factor in TLV & DOH to the Asia numbers which means MIA-TYO has to be even smaller. Good luck to Miami, but I'm not seeing the numbers to support a n/s to E Asia.

MAH4546 wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

Of that 400K+ going to Asia that would include TLV right???? That would be a significant portion that wouldn't connect in East Asia. Also, that number includes any stimulation (Mid-East/Sub-Continent/SE Asia) from QR entering in 2014.

Good point. I totally forgot to factor in TLV & DOH to the Asia numbers which means MIA-TYO has to be even smaller. Good luck to Miami, but I'm not seeing the numbers to support a n/s to E Asia.

Nope. TLV, DOH, etc. is Middle East, not counted as Asia for purposes of airline traffic data. It is its own category. Miami is the single largest U.S. market to Asia without a non-stop, then PHL and MCO. All three will see Asia service soon enough, much to apparent disappointment of many.

MIAMNL is the biggest market at around 100 PDEW. Tokyo is around 60, HKG about 50. PVG, PEK, TPE, ICN, CGK and DPS all above 25 PDEW. Not just Miami, but Florida-Asia in general is exploding. EK and QR have definitely contributed.

MAH4546 wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

Of that 400K+ going to Asia that would include TLV right???? That would be a significant portion that wouldn't connect in East Asia. Also, that number includes any stimulation (Mid-East/Sub-Continent/SE Asia) from QR entering in 2014.

Good point. I totally forgot to factor in TLV & DOH to the Asia numbers which means MIA-TYO has to be even smaller. Good luck to Miami, but I'm not seeing the numbers to support a n/s to E Asia.

Nope. TLV, DOH, etc. is Middle East, not counted as Asia for purposes of airline traffic data. It is its own category. Miami is the single largest U.S. market to Asia without a non-stop, then PHL and MCO. All three will see Asia service soon enough, much to apparent disappointment of many.

MIAMNL is the biggest market at around 100 PDEW. Tokyo is around 60, HKG about 50. PVG, PEK, TPE, ICN, CGK and DPS all above 25 PDEW. Not just Miami, but Florida-Asia in general is exploding. EK and QR have definitely contributed.

LAXintl wrote:

MCO has higher demand to Tokyo than MIA does.

PDEW based on MIDT for 12-months ending Mar17
MIA - 36
MCO - 67

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Well this thread is specific to a potential MIA-TYO announcement, but as stated below MCO has nearly double the PPDEW to TYO than MIA. So why would MIA get service before MCO. Lest we forget MCO got EK years before Miami (FLL) did. I suspect the same will happen again.

JRL3289 wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Well this thread is specific to a potential MIA-TYO announcement, but as stated below MCO has nearly double the PPDEW to TYO than MIA. So why would MIA get service before MCO. Lest we forget MCO got EK years before Miami (FLL) did. I suspect the same will happen again.

Miami has a significantly different business profile compared to Orlando. A nonstop to Tokyo would ostensibly cater to higher yielding business traffic... something which I would bet Miami has significantly more of compared to Orlando. The fact that Emirates can leverage their massive hub to cater to a variety of traffic flows has nothing to do with MIA-TYO or even Florida-TYO demand.

aa87 wrote:

Not exactly relevant, but I remember being amazed that DL was flying an MD-11 from MCO to I think Nagoya, at least 25 years ago. What exactly was the market, Disney World ? I also remember seeing a beautiful MD-11 departure MCO from above while we were on approach around 1991, and I assumed it was that flight. So, seems odd to me that service would have started a quarter of a century ago, but Tokyo-Miami still doesn't exist. Has to be one of the top obvious city pairs w no n/s service.

MAH4546 wrote:

Miami is the single largest U.S. market to Asia without a non-stop, then PHL and MCO. All three will see Asia service soon enough, much to apparent disappointment of many.

aa87 wrote:

Not exactly relevant, but I remember being amazed that DL was flying an MD-11 from MCO to I think Nagoya, at least 25 years ago. What exactly was the market, Disney World ? I also remember seeing a beautiful MD-11 departure MCO from above while we were on approach around 1991, and I assumed it was that flight

727LOVER wrote:

That wasn't a nonstop, it was MCO-LAX-NGO I think. DL was big in MCO, not MIA/

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Don't forget - ginormous companies like Disney and Universal Studios have properties in both Orlando and Tokyo. So don't discount Orlando's business traffic capabilities.

deltacto wrote:

NGO was only served from PDX

MAH4546 wrote:

Nope. TLV, DOH, etc. is Middle East, not counted as Asia for purposes of airline traffic data. It is its own category. Miami is the single largest U.S. market to Asia without a non-stop, then PHL and MCO. All three will see Asia service soon enough, much to apparent disappointment of many.

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Don't forget - ginormous companies like Disney and Universal Studios have properties in both Orlando and Tokyo. So don't discount Orlando's business traffic capabilities. What companies in MIA even come close to comparing to size and worth of Disney?

dfwjim1 wrote:

travelers between Miami and Tokyo, Hong Kong...etc can easily connect to Asia through ATL, JFK, ORD,DFW, IAH, LAX, SEA, BOS, MSP, DTW and SFO. MIA really needs to concentrate on what it does best - serving the Americas and Europe.

jfk777 wrote:

Its time MIA crossed the Pacific Ocean, these days when the 787-9 is pioneering such flights as Perth to London Heathrow its not outrageous for Miami to have a route to Japan, Korea or China. AA, JAL and ANA all have large 787 fleets which could undertake such a flight. JAL could also move its DFW to NRT flight to Miami since AA does have twice daily 777 to NRT and nonstops to ICN, PVG and PEK as well.

Miami is a city experiencing booming economic times there has never been a better time for such a flight to start. Japanese and Asian tourists all love to go to California and New York plus Hawaii, it time they discover another corner of the USA but for some reason the AA folks in Dallas think this is a bad idea, why ?

zakuivcustom wrote:

jfk777 wrote:

Its time MIA crossed the Pacific Ocean, these days when the 787-9 is pioneering such flights as Perth to London Heathrow its not outrageous for Miami to have a route to Japan, Korea or China. AA, JAL and ANA all have large 787 fleets which could undertake such a flight. JAL could also move its DFW to NRT flight to Miami since AA does have twice daily 777 to NRT and nonstops to ICN, PVG and PEK as well.

Miami is a city experiencing booming economic times there has never been a better time for such a flight to start. Japanese and Asian tourists all love to go to California and New York plus Hawaii, it time they discover another corner of the USA but for some reason the AA folks in Dallas think this is a bad idea, why ?

They do travel to more than CA and NY and HA , although not really that much further (i.e. LAX + Vegas + Grand Canyon being a common tourist circuit, there's also SFO + Yosemite, all along NE Corridor (+ Niagara Falls for some). Of course, Orlando received some traffic also, and I won't be too surprised if they go to MIA also.

Ultimately, though, geography just doesn't help MIA. Want beaches? Hawaii is a lot closer. It's the same reason why a lot more European go to Florida than Hawaii in general anyway, it's simply closer. Another thing that doesn't help MIA is the lack of logical connection from there. To Caribbean, yes, MIA is a good point for it. But to rest of US? Not so much other than maybe MCO. Remember, even ATL only has 3 (soon to be 4) TPAC flights, 1 to NRT and 2 (Technically 13/wk) to ICN, along with the upcoming PVG flight. And ATL is the busiest airport in the world by miles. Also noted that two of the destinations (ICN and PVG) and Skyteam hub with some sort of partnership/JV, the other (NRT) being a DL semi-"hub"/focus city.

LAX772LR wrote:

dfwjim1 wrote:

travelers between Miami and Tokyo, Hong Kong...etc can easily connect to Asia through ATL, JFK, ORD,DFW, IAH, LAX, SEA, BOS, MSP, DTW and SFO. MIA really needs to concentrate on what it does best - serving the Americas and Europe.

What kind of defeatist attitude is that?

MIA officials would be in derelict of their position if they weren't laying the foundation for expanded service into markets previously unpenetrated.

zakuivcustom wrote:

I always find it weird that PHL doesn't even have 1 TPAC flight.

Fastphilly wrote:

And even with the Huge domestic network DL has in ATL the PVG flight has been off and on over the years. That right there shows how challenging it is for TPAC flights out of the southeastern US.

Fastphilly wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

jfk777 wrote:

Its time MIA crossed the Pacific Ocean, these days when the 787-9 is pioneering such flights as Perth to London Heathrow its not outrageous for Miami to have a route to Japan, Korea or China. AA, JAL and ANA all have large 787 fleets which could undertake such a flight. JAL could also move its DFW to NRT flight to Miami since AA does have twice daily 777 to NRT and nonstops to ICN, PVG and PEK as well.

Miami is a city experiencing booming economic times there has never been a better time for such a flight to start. Japanese and Asian tourists all love to go to California and New York plus Hawaii, it time they discover another corner of the USA but for some reason the AA folks in Dallas think this is a bad idea, why ?

They do travel to more than CA and NY and HA , although not really that much further (i.e. LAX + Vegas + Grand Canyon being a common tourist circuit, there's also SFO + Yosemite, all along NE Corridor (+ Niagara Falls for some). Of course, Orlando received some traffic also, and I won't be too surprised if they go to MIA also.

Ultimately, though, geography just doesn't help MIA. Want beaches? Hawaii is a lot closer. It's the same reason why a lot more European go to Florida than Hawaii in general anyway, it's simply closer. Another thing that doesn't help MIA is the lack of logical connection from there. To Caribbean, yes, MIA is a good point for it. But to rest of US? Not so much other than maybe MCO. Remember, even ATL only has 3 (soon to be 4) TPAC flights, 1 to NRT and 2 (Technically 13/wk) to ICN, along with the upcoming PVG flight. And ATL is the busiest airport in the world by miles. Also noted that two of the destinations (ICN and PVG) and Skyteam hub with some sort of partnership/JV, the other (NRT) being a DL semi-"hub"/focus city.

And even with the Huge domestic network DL has in ATL the PVG flight has been off and on over the years. That right there shows how challenging it is for TPAC flights out of the southeastern US.

LAX772LR wrote:

Fastphilly wrote:

And even with the Huge domestic network DL has in ATL the PVG flight has been off and on over the years. That right there shows how challenging it is for TPAC flights out of the southeastern US.

Depends on the market more than the location.

ATL-PVG may struggle, but ATL-ICN is one of the strongest Asian markets in the east... with multiple frequencies including A380s.

zakuivcustom wrote:

Fastphilly wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

They do travel to more than CA and NY and HA , although not really that much further (i.e. LAX + Vegas + Grand Canyon being a common tourist circuit, there's also SFO + Yosemite, all along NE Corridor (+ Niagara Falls for some). Of course, Orlando received some traffic also, and I won't be too surprised if they go to MIA also.

Ultimately, though, geography just doesn't help MIA. Want beaches? Hawaii is a lot closer. It's the same reason why a lot more European go to Florida than Hawaii in general anyway, it's simply closer. Another thing that doesn't help MIA is the lack of logical connection from there. To Caribbean, yes, MIA is a good point for it. But to rest of US? Not so much other than maybe MCO. Remember, even ATL only has 3 (soon to be 4) TPAC flights, 1 to NRT and 2 (Technically 13/wk) to ICN, along with the upcoming PVG flight. And ATL is the busiest airport in the world by miles. Also noted that two of the destinations (ICN and PVG) and Skyteam hub with some sort of partnership/JV, the other (NRT) being a DL semi-"hub"/focus city.

And even with the Huge domestic network DL has in ATL the PVG flight has been off and on over the years. That right there shows how challenging it is for TPAC flights out of the southeastern US.

Add onto a little bit on ATL. There's also the demographic problem working against MIA. The whole Miami Metro Area has ~85k non-Indian Asian TOTAL, while greater Atlanta has ~178k (and growing) non-Indian Asian, including ~95k Korean ALONE (Hence the 2x ICN flight anyway). And even then, DL cannot make anything other than NRT (and that flight is somewhat historical anyway, since NRT was the connecting point to the rest of East Asia for DL) or ICN (Huge VFR/O&D) works well (PVG is on-and-off). Business? Not much Japanese business down in MIA area, nor any big Korean (i.e. something like Samsung in AUS) or Chinese/Taiwanese (Chiefly Tech industries, i.e. Foxconn or ASUS) business either. So what's left? Long-thin route for tourist traffic only? Connection? Ultra low yield Filipino VFR traffic to MNL or CEB or wherever?

LAX772LR wrote:

Fastphilly wrote:

And even with the Huge domestic network DL has in ATL the PVG flight has been off and on over the years. That right there shows how challenging it is for TPAC flights out of the southeastern US.

Depends on the market more than the location.

ATL-PVG may struggle, but ATL-ICN is one of the strongest Asian markets in the east... with multiple frequencies including A380s.

Yep. Of course, having that huge Korean population in Atlanta Area help.

Any additional connection traffic is just icing on the cake, helps fill the plane even more

BigTexFlyer wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

Fastphilly wrote:

And even with the Huge domestic network DL has in ATL the PVG flight has been off and on over the years. That right there shows how challenging it is for TPAC flights out of the southeastern US.

Add onto a little bit on ATL. There's also the demographic problem working against MIA. The whole Miami Metro Area has ~85k non-Indian Asian TOTAL, while greater Atlanta has ~178k (and growing) non-Indian Asian, including ~95k Korean ALONE (Hence the 2x ICN flight anyway). And even then, DL cannot make anything other than NRT (and that flight is somewhat historical anyway, since NRT was the connecting point to the rest of East Asia for DL) or ICN (Huge VFR/O&D) works well (PVG is on-and-off). Business? Not much Japanese business down in MIA area, nor any big Korean (i.e. something like Samsung in AUS) or Chinese/Taiwanese (Chiefly Tech industries, i.e. Foxconn or ASUS) business either. So what's left? Long-thin route for tourist traffic only? Connection? Ultra low yield Filipino VFR traffic to MNL or CEB or wherever?

LAX772LR wrote:

Depends on the market more than the location.

ATL-PVG may struggle, but ATL-ICN is one of the strongest Asian markets in the east... with multiple frequencies including A380s.

Yep. Of course, having that huge Korean population in Atlanta Area help.

Any additional connection traffic is just icing on the cake, helps fill the plane even more

It’s MIA. Like BOS and DTW, MIA is entitled to nonstop flights to any runway that can handle a direct flight. Money doesn’t matter.

Fastphilly wrote:

BigTexFlyer wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

Add onto a little bit on ATL. There's also the demographic problem working against MIA. The whole Miami Metro Area has ~85k non-Indian Asian TOTAL, while greater Atlanta has ~178k (and growing) non-Indian Asian, including ~95k Korean ALONE (Hence the 2x ICN flight anyway). And even then, DL cannot make anything other than NRT (and that flight is somewhat historical anyway, since NRT was the connecting point to the rest of East Asia for DL) or ICN (Huge VFR/O&D) works well (PVG is on-and-off). Business? Not much Japanese business down in MIA area, nor any big Korean (i.e. something like Samsung in AUS) or Chinese/Taiwanese (Chiefly Tech industries, i.e. Foxconn or ASUS) business either. So what's left? Long-thin route for tourist traffic only? Connection? Ultra low yield Filipino VFR traffic to MNL or CEB or wherever?



Yep. Of course, having that huge Korean population in Atlanta Area help.

Any additional connection traffic is just icing on the cake, helps fill the plane even more

It’s MIA. Like BOS and DTW, MIA is entitled to nonstop flights to any runway that can handle a direct flight. Money doesn’t matter.

MIA is nothing like DTW and BOS for obvious reasons. Auto industry for DTW, global, biotech and education for BOS. BOS also has a large financial sector as well. Both cities are much closer too.

zakuivcustom wrote:

Fastphilly wrote:

BigTexFlyer wrote:

It’s MIA. Like BOS and DTW, MIA is entitled to nonstop flights to any runway that can handle a direct flight. Money doesn’t matter.

MIA is nothing like DTW and BOS for obvious reasons. Auto industry for DTW, global, biotech and education for BOS. BOS also has a large financial sector as well. Both cities are much closer too.

You are definitely being too serious.

It is in reference to the fact that no matter how many facts and figures are presented, there is always a group of people on a.net that insisted on thinking MIA TPAC is extremely profitable and airlines are squendering money not operating the route.

LAX772LR wrote:

Except that Disney's primary corporate offices are based in neither, and UA has (or at least, throughout the '90s and early '00s had) the primary travel contract for Disney.

zakuivcustom wrote:

Walt Disney Parks and Resorts (and Walt Disney Co) HQs are located in Burbank, then Walt Disney Imagineering (Responsible for Design/Construction of Disney Theme Parks) is in Glendale. Any executives that want to travel to Tokyo Disneyland can pick from one of the many LAX-TYO flights. Not to mention, Tokyo Disney Resort is a franchise (to a Japanese company call Oriental Land), thus not even operated directly by any of the Walt Disney Co itself.

For USJ (Which is, BTW, not even in Tokyo Area. It's in Osaka), it's a direct subsidiary of NBCUniversal, which is based out of NYC. Nothing to do with Orlando either.

MCO does have relatively high demand from many places in Asia, but 90% of that (if not more) is tourist traffic visiting Mickey Mouse. It can certainly fill a plane, but not exactly the highest yield passengers, though.

LAX772LR wrote:

Thus, neither would be of much help to JL

clrd4t8koff wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Don't forget - ginormous companies like Disney and Universal Studios have properties in both Orlando and Tokyo. So don't discount Orlando's business traffic capabilities.

Except that Disney's primary corporate offices are based in neither, and UA has (or at least, throughout the '90s and early '00s had) the primary travel contract for Disney.

zakuivcustom wrote:

Walt Disney Parks and Resorts (and Walt Disney Co) HQs are located in Burbank, then Walt Disney Imagineering (Responsible for Design/Construction of Disney Theme Parks) is in Glendale. Any executives that want to travel to Tokyo Disneyland can pick from one of the many LAX-TYO flights. Not to mention, Tokyo Disney Resort is a franchise (to a Japanese company call Oriental Land), thus not even operated directly by any of the Walt Disney Co itself.

For USJ (Which is, BTW, not even in Tokyo Area. It's in Osaka), it's a direct subsidiary of NBCUniversal, which is based out of NYC. Nothing to do with Orlando either.

MCO does have relatively high demand from many places in Asia, but 90% of that (if not more) is tourist traffic visiting Mickey Mouse. It can certainly fill a plane, but not exactly the highest yield passengers, though.

Except that nowhere in my post did I state Disney or Universal Studios were headquartered in Orlando...so there's that. Not sure why both of you felt the need to come along and play Wikipedia. Maybe try reading and comprehending a post before coming to correct someone?

LAX772LR wrote:

Thus, neither would be of much help to JL

I didn't realize only JL could fly MCO-TYO non-stop. Must be news to NH.

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Except that nowhere in my post did I state Disney or Universal Studios were headquartered in Orlando...so there's that. Not sure why both of you felt the need to come along and play Wikipedia. Maybe try reading and comprehending a post before coming to correct someone?

BigTexFlyer wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

Fastphilly wrote:

And even with the Huge domestic network DL has in ATL the PVG flight has been off and on over the years. That right there shows how challenging it is for TPAC flights out of the southeastern US.

Add onto a little bit on ATL. There's also the demographic problem working against MIA. The whole Miami Metro Area has ~85k non-Indian Asian TOTAL, while greater Atlanta has ~178k (and growing) non-Indian Asian, including ~95k Korean ALONE (Hence the 2x ICN flight anyway). And even then, DL cannot make anything other than NRT (and that flight is somewhat historical anyway, since NRT was the connecting point to the rest of East Asia for DL) or ICN (Huge VFR/O&D) works well (PVG is on-and-off). Business? Not much Japanese business down in MIA area, nor any big Korean (i.e. something like Samsung in AUS) or Chinese/Taiwanese (Chiefly Tech industries, i.e. Foxconn or ASUS) business either. So what's left? Long-thin route for tourist traffic only? Connection? Ultra low yield Filipino VFR traffic to MNL or CEB or wherever?

LAX772LR wrote:

Depends on the market more than the location.

ATL-PVG may struggle, but ATL-ICN is one of the strongest Asian markets in the east... with multiple frequencies including A380s.

Yep. Of course, having that huge Korean population in Atlanta Area help.

Any additional connection traffic is just icing on the cake, helps fill the plane even more

It’s MIA. Like BOS and DTW, MIA is entitled to nonstop flights to any runway that can handle a direct flight. Money doesn’t matter.

zakuivcustom wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

Except that Disney's primary corporate offices are based in neither, and UA has (or at least, throughout the '90s and early '00s had) the primary travel contract for Disney.



Except that nowhere in my post did I state Disney or Universal Studios were headquartered in Orlando...so there's that. Not sure why both of you felt the need to come along and play Wikipedia. Maybe try reading and comprehending a post before coming to correct someone?

I didn't realize only JL could fly MCO-TYO non-stop. Must be news to NH.

And your point is? Neither JL nor NH even has a flight to LAS, you think they will now fly an even longer leisure only route?

On the side, your whole premise is that since there are Disney resort in both Orlando and Tokyo, and also Universal Parks in Orlando and Osaka, somehow there is a business tie. But when it was corrected that the HQ or most of corporate traffic would originate somewhere else, then you are arguing about how you never said the HQ is in Orlando.

So, my question is, what business traffic would be there now?

clrd4t8koff wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

I didn't realize only JL could fly MCO-TYO non-stop. Must be news to NH.

And your point is? Neither JL nor NH even has a flight to LAS, you think they will now fly an even longer leisure only route?

On the side, your whole premise is that since there are Disney resort in both Orlando and Tokyo, and also Universal Parks in Orlando and Osaka, somehow there is a business tie. But when it was corrected that the HQ or most of corporate traffic would originate somewhere else, then you are arguing about how you never said the HQ is in Orlando.

So, my question is, what business traffic would be there now?

If you would go back and read my original post this wouldn't even be a discussion. You're wasting everyone's time. But since you come across as the type that needs everything explained to them I'll spell it out for you.

What I said was that Orlando has stronger business ties to Asia with Disney and Universal than Miami does. I then asked to name one company in Miami that's anywhere near the size of those companies in Orlando and nobody has been able to. Instead, you've decided to take my post out of context and twist it into something it's not.

Who cares what LAS has or doesn't have. That's not relevant to this discussion.