After the shedload of 787-8s, Ethiopian Airlines introduces the 787-9 in Africa.


https://twitter.com/PlanesAtPaine/statu ... 6469958656

Nice looking plane.

Any chance i ll see this in Nairobi?

Ethiopian will fly the B787-9 to Dubai from 30OCT - 05NOV and a one-off service to Beirut on 29OCT.

Cabins? Maybe a competitive cabin for once ET?!

OA940 wrote:

Cabins? Maybe a competitive cabin for once ET?!

What do you mean ? Ethiopian has a good Product don't they ?

I'll probably be on it in economy next year, so will give a verdict on it then. It would be my 3rd operator of the 789, and 4th flight

Mortyman wrote:

OA940 wrote:

Cabins? Maybe a competitive cabin for once ET?!

What do you mean ? Ethiopian has a good Product don't they ?

Oh they do, that's certain. But their Business Class seats (what I was referring to) (aka the same as Air China, KLM, United before Polaris, Aeromexico before the 787-9 etc.) are not direct aisle access, and in 2017 that's not good. Then again they almost have complete monopoly over their markets, so they can offer it without any issue. I'm just saying for such an airline it would be a shame to ruin the experience by having to step over the guy next to you, or vice versa.

In the press release about the delivery they mentioned 315 seats. I could not find a seat map. They stopped updating their seat map page even before the A350 arrived. But unless they got a new bussiness class seat, I would guess it to be 30C/285Y. Their 787-8 is 24C/246Y=270. Apparently the newer A350 got 5Y less for 30C/313Y=343.
Theses are all on the top end of number of seats for these airliners and shows how the 787-9 fits nicely in the middle here. As ET is one of the few with both new WB and comparable configurations one can easily see how much smaller the 787-9 is compared to the A350-900.

Here is the seatmap for their Airbus 350-900 atleast:

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ethio ... 50-900.php

Mortyman wrote:

Here is the seatmap for their Airbus 350-900 atleast:

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ethio ... 50-900.php

Thanks. Apparently the only one out there. Explains where the 5Y went. Extra galley aft door 2.
For the 787-9 we probably have to wait for seatguru.com, as well.

OA940 wrote:

Mortyman wrote:

OA940 wrote:

Cabins? Maybe a competitive cabin for once ET?!

What do you mean ? Ethiopian has a good Product don't they ?

Oh they do, that's certain. But their Business Class seats (what I was referring to) (aka the same as Air China, KLM, United before Polaris, Aeromexico before the 787-9 etc.) are not direct aisle access, and in 2017 that's not good. Then again they almost have complete monopoly over their markets, so they can offer it without any issue. I'm just saying for such an airline it would be a shame to ruin the experience by having to step over the guy next to you, or vice versa.

Why increase comfort, if the market doesn’t ask/require it?

It’s snobbery to assume that every market needs a proper state of the art J class. The extra 2 J seats enable easonable price in J to be offered. That is how Ethiopian encourages J people to fly one stop via Addis.

It’s all very well to say that Ethiopian has a monopoly, but have you seen the fares their practice? On Africa to the world routes, they are ultra competitive both in Y and J, and thus enable many more Africans to travel.

787-9 schedule according to airlineroute.net;

Addis Ababa – Brazzaville – Pointe Noire – Addis Ababa eff 03DEC17 1 of 6 weekly (Day 7) operated by 787-9, replacing -8
Addis Ababa – Cape Town eff 06DEC17 787-9 operating 1 of 7 weekly service (2 weekly from 15DEC17)
Addis Ababa – Chengdu
eff 10DEC17 Planned increase from 3 to 4 weekly remains unchanged, 787-8 service
eff 21FEB18 1 of 4 weekly operated by 787-9, replacing -8
Addis Ababa – Kilimanjaro – Zanzibar
eff 02DEC17 787-9 operates once a week
eff 03DEC17 Service reduces from 7 to 4 weekly (Addis Ababa – Kilimanjaro remains 7 weekly; Previously reported)
Addis Ababa – Rome – Milan Malpensa 12DEC17 – 30JAN18 787-9 operates 1 of 3 weekly, replacing -8
Addis Ababa – Singapore – Kuala Lumpur First 787-9 service on this route scheduled on 30NOV17. Service operated by a mix of 787-8/-9 until 15FEB18, switching to -9 only from 17FEB18
Addis Ababa – Stockholm Arlanda – Oslo eff 01DEC17 787-9 operates 1 of 5 weekly
Addis Ababa – Toronto (Westbound via Dublin)
eff 02DEC17 Increase from 3 to 5 weekly (Previously reported)
14DEC17 – 15FEB18 787-9 operates 1 of 5 weekly, replacing -8

One has to think they would order more than just 4 -9s.

vinniewinnie wrote:

It’s all very well to say that Ethiopian has a monopoly, but have you seen the fares their practice? On Africa to the world routes, they are ultra competitive both in Y and J, and thus enable many more Africans to travel.

ET doesn't have a monopoly. They compete on most markets they serve, which are definitely not restricted to the Ethiopia O/D.

vinniewinnie wrote:

OA940 wrote:

Mortyman wrote:

What do you mean ? Ethiopian has a good Product don't they ?

Oh they do, that's certain. But their Business Class seats (what I was referring to) (aka the same as Air China, KLM, United before Polaris, Aeromexico before the 787-9 etc.) are not direct aisle access, and in 2017 that's not good. Then again they almost have complete monopoly over their markets, so they can offer it without any issue. I'm just saying for such an airline it would be a shame to ruin the experience by having to step over the guy next to you, or vice versa.

Why increase comfort, if the market doesn’t ask/require it?

It’s snobbery to assume that every market needs a proper state of the art J class. The extra 2 J seats enable easonable price in J to be offered. That is how Ethiopian encourages J people to fly one stop via Addis.

It’s all very well to say that Ethiopian has a monopoly, but have you seen the fares their practice? On Africa to the world routes, they are ultra competitive both in Y and J, and thus enable many more Africans to travel.

While their marketing touts a luxurious service, Ethiopian provides a very basic J and Y service that is tailored for the African traveler that does not demand the true luxuries that are offered by the likes of Emirates. The competition that ET brings is based on safe + dependable service and frequency, not service levels. This is why their prices are also relatively competitive, where one may be swayed to fly ET instead of EK because the price simply makes sense. ET provides necessary and consistent service throughout Africa where many others don't dare explore or simply can't make it work. Anyone that suggests that ET competes with EK in J service levels needs a reality check. Those who get their companies/governments/UN to pay for EK J or F class will never even look at ET; I know of individuals out of Addis Ababa that swipe the employer credit card to fly EK in J or F to connect at DXB and get to a destination that ET flies nonstop to, just because the coffers they use allow them to.

Ethiopian does not have a monopoly. It is in a market where other entrants simply can't stay aloft due to mismanagement or their inability to market themselves properly or make the numbers work. ET is well established and does compete effectively. Aside from African airlines, US, European and Asian airlines have entered and exited many markets because they simply can't make it work. Costs in Africa are high, navigation is a challenge, dealing with African governments and local staff is also a challenge, and these are areas that non-African airlines do not know how well to navigate or make work, or deem it to be too risky.

Regarding seating for the ET 787-9s, this is what expertflyer shows
J: 30 seats
Y: 285 seats
Total: 315



Ethiopian's modern wide body fleet has the following seating:
350: 343
77W: 399
77L: 321
789: 315
788: 271

Unless performance greatly varies from aircraft to aircraft, the 350, 77L and 789 provide almost similar seating capacity (J seats are 30, 28 and 30 respectively.) Future schedules show that all three aircraft will be deployed to similar missions or missions where one of three used to operate. For example the 789 will be doing runs to YYZ, which have seen the 77L operate to during high season (YYZ is seeing the biggest capacity boost this winter for a western hemisphere destination.)

While I don't understand why only 4 examples of the 789 were ordered, I also don't understand how they fit in the equation of so many wide body aircraft that ET has. Perhaps the commonality of the aircraft with the 788 makes this issue irrelevant.

I suspect that with 22 A350s that ET ordered, the 77Ls and possibly the 77Ws will eventually be replaced by the A350. ET has received 6 A350s thus far, with 16 more in the order books. It has a total of 10 pax 777s (6 77Ls and 4 77Ws) today that are relatively older than other aircraft. ET's growth plans cannot sustain the introduction of 16 additional 343-seat A350s in the coming years even if they start to introduce double daily flights to Europe and Asia. We have recently seen the A350 consistently deployed on 77L/77W long haul mainstays such as PEK, PVG and FRA.

And then there's the talk about the 777-X, which I don't know where/how it can be justified (or maybe died when ET ordered the additional A350s this year at Dubai.) Maybe someone can chime in on performance/capacity/range/ability between the A350 and the 77s as it pertains to ET.

X2K wrote:

787-9 schedule according to airlineroute.net;

Addis Ababa – Brazzaville – Pointe Noire – Addis Ababa eff 03DEC17 1 of 6 weekly (Day 7) operated by 787-9, replacing -8
Addis Ababa – Cape Town eff 06DEC17 787-9 operating 1 of 7 weekly service (2 weekly from 15DEC17)
Addis Ababa – Chengdu
eff 10DEC17 Planned increase from 3 to 4 weekly remains unchanged, 787-8 service
eff 21FEB18 1 of 4 weekly operated by 787-9, replacing -8
Addis Ababa – Kilimanjaro – Zanzibar
eff 02DEC17 787-9 operates once a week
eff 03DEC17 Service reduces from 7 to 4 weekly (Addis Ababa – Kilimanjaro remains 7 weekly; Previously reported)
Addis Ababa – Rome – Milan Malpensa 12DEC17 – 30JAN18 787-9 operates 1 of 3 weekly, replacing -8
Addis Ababa – Singapore – Kuala Lumpur First 787-9 service on this route scheduled on 30NOV17. Service operated by a mix of 787-8/-9 until 15FEB18, switching to -9 only from 17FEB18
Addis Ababa – Stockholm Arlanda – Oslo eff 01DEC17 787-9 operates 1 of 5 weekly
Addis Ababa – Toronto (Westbound via Dublin)
eff 02DEC17 Increase from 3 to 5 weekly (Previously reported)
14DEC17 – 15FEB18 787-9 operates 1 of 5 weekly, replacing -8

Flights to and from BKK showed as 789 in July as well

berari wrote:

vinniewinnie wrote:

OA940 wrote:

While their marketing touts a luxurious service, Ethiopian provides a very basic J and Y service that is tailored for the African traveler that does not demand the true luxuries that are offered by the likes of Emirates. The competition that ET brings is based on safe + dependable service and frequency, not service levels. This is why their prices are also relatively competitive, where one may be swayed to fly ET instead of EK because the price simply makes sense. ET provides necessary and consistent service throughout Africa where many others don't dare explore or simply can't make it work. Anyone that suggests that ET competes with EK in J service levels needs a reality check. Those who get their companies/governments/UN to pay for EK J or F class will never even look at ET; I know of individuals out of Addis Ababa that swipe the employer credit card to fly EK in J or F to connect at DXB and get to a destination that ET flies nonstop to, just because the coffers they use allow them to..

The UN never pays people to travel in J. Maybe you have past experiences

alyusuph wrote:

berari wrote:

vinniewinnie wrote:

The UN never pays people to travel in J. Maybe you have past experiences

Oh they certainly do. Anything over 9 hrs in a single leg or 11 hrs in multiple legs gets you in J.
https://hr.un.org/article/changes-un-air-travel-policy

To beat the monopoly argument to death, another big competitor (Frenemy) is TK, which, after ET, has the largest African network. So pick any sub-saharan city of decent size, and try to buy a ticket to any large destination, you will see that many options are now available. The challenges in Africa is mostly in the intra-Africa routes but even that is slowly changing.

As for the 789s, I would guess they were ordered purely on CASM calculations. I cannot see any other plausible reason. In my view, the biggest hole in the ET armor is in the 80-100 seater range, not the 300-350 range.