travelin man
Posts: 3220
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 am

USAOZ wrote:
zkncj wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

I don’t see the PPT crowd wanting to head down to TIJ first. Either from Paris or San Diego.


If you live in San Diego region or anywhere south of LA, who the hell would want to make their way to very congested LAX, when CBX is on south side of San Diego.


Nobody wants to go to Tijuana to get to PPT. Let's get real.
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:41 am

travelin man wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
zkncj wrote:

If you live in San Diego region or anywhere south of LA, who the hell would want to make their way to very congested LAX, when CBX is on south side of San Diego.


Nobody wants to go to Tijuana to get to PPT. Let's get real.
do you understand that CBX means you can go to TIJ from San Diego side of border & walk across a bridge to TIJ ? Walk is shorter than at many other airports, from check in to the actual aircraft.
Last edited by USAOZ on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:42 am

USAOZ wrote:
travelin man wrote:
USAOZ wrote:


Nobody wants to go to Tijuana to get to PPT. Let's get real.
do you understand that CBX means you can go to TIJ from San Diego side of border & walk across a bridge to TIJ ? Walk is shorter than at many other airports, check in to the actual aircraft.


It doesn’t matter. No one going to PPT wants to do a land crossing to Mexico first even if it isn’t that hard. It would be a massive fail.
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:55 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
travelin man wrote:

Nobody wants to go to Tijuana to get to PPT. Let's get real.
do you understand that CBX means you can go to TIJ from San Diego side of border & walk across a bridge to TIJ ? Walk is shorter than at many other airports, check in to the actual aircraft.


It doesn’t matter. No one going to PPT wants to do a land crossing to Mexico first even if it isn’t that hard. It would be a massive fail.
disagree completely. How else can you get from San Diego to PPT ? Drive/shuttle to LAX ?

& cost ?

French Blue would be much cheaper & better than any option out of LAX.
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:11 am

thinking about it, why wouldn't French Blue continue onto Australia, like AOM used to?
 
airzona11
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:19 am

USAOZ wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
do you understand that CBX means you can go to TIJ from San Diego side of border & walk across a bridge to TIJ ? Walk is shorter than at many other airports, check in to the actual aircraft.


It doesn’t matter. No one going to PPT wants to do a land crossing to Mexico first even if it isn’t that hard. It would be a massive fail.
disagree completely. How else can you get from San Diego to PPT ? Drive/shuttle to LAX ?

& cost ?

French Blue would be much cheaper & better than any option out of LAX.


Why would French Blue be much cheaper? Or Better?

PPT is about as premium of a vacation destination as exists. No secondary airports. If someone from San Diego wants to fly to PPT, they get there the way they do today. Fly to LAX. What there, 20 flights a day?
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:30 am

airzona11 wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

It doesn’t matter. No one going to PPT wants to do a land crossing to Mexico first even if it isn’t that hard. It would be a massive fail.
disagree completely. How else can you get from San Diego to PPT ? Drive/shuttle to LAX ?

& cost ?

French Blue would be much cheaper & better than any option out of LAX.


Why would French Blue be much cheaper? Or Better?

PPT is about as premium of a vacation destination as exists. No secondary airports. If someone from San Diego wants to fly to PPT, they get there the way they do today. Fly to LAX. What there, 20 flights a day?
French Blue are low cost !!!
to
Better-just having a dig, by being low cost, they much be better value.

So why would anyone who lived in San Diego want to spend time flying to LAX, sit around for min 2 hours to fly to PPT, when they could go nonstop ?
 
Cunard
Posts: 777
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:47 am

Jumping in here but why specifically San Diego?

Not every airport has to have a direct link from A to B it's all about supply and demand and a direct San Diego to PPT has neither, as pointed out there are numerous flights a day from San Diego to LAX to connect to a flight to PPT or any other destination just like anyone else would from the likes of San Francisco, San Jose, Seattle, etc.
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:11 am

Cunard wrote:
Jumping in here but why specifically San Diego?

Not every airport has to have a direct link from A to B it's all about supply and demand and a direct San Diego to PPT has neither, as pointed out there are numerous flights a day from San Diego to LAX to connect to a flight to PPT or any other destination just like anyone else would from the likes of San Francisco, San Jose, Seattle, etc.

huge population between LAX & Mexico border. Who would want to spend hours getting from San Diego to LAX to fly anywhere when could go nonstop cheaper ?

think about it, get to SAN at least 2 hours before flight to LAX, then min connecting time at LAX, then finally get flight to PPT, or Paris CDG or in this case, ORY.
 
77H
Posts: 670
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:11 am

My understanding of the AF/TN and the possible BF flights via LAX and SFO respectively is to move passengers between Metro France and French Polynesia. The stops in LAX and SFO exist because there is no aircraft in existence that can fly PAR-PPT nonstop.

The added bonus beyond being along the GC path is that LAX and SFO are popular destinations for French passengers that helps fill the aircraft PAR-LAX/SFO and LAX/SFO are large population centers with affluent residents to help fill the LAX/SFO-PPT legs. SAN, as great a city as it is, cannot compete with the aforementioned California markets in the regard.

Even if SAN were to offer cheaper user fees, or even incentives to have the flight stop in SAN over SFO it would be easily negated by the lack of market.

77H
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:29 pm

77H wrote:
My understanding of the AF/TN and the possible BF flights via LAX and SFO respectively is to move passengers between Metro France and French Polynesia. The stops in LAX and SFO exist because there is no aircraft in existence that can fly PAR-PPT nonstop.

The added bonus beyond being along the GC path is that LAX and SFO are popular destinations for French passengers that helps fill the aircraft PAR-LAX/SFO and LAX/SFO are large population centers with affluent residents to help fill the LAX/SFO-PPT legs. SAN, as great a city as it is, cannot compete with the aforementioned California markets in the regard.

Even if SAN were to offer cheaper user fees, or even incentives to have the flight stop in SAN over SFO it would be easily negated by the lack of market.

77H

but if TIJ/CBX used instead of SAN, then surely big savings in U.S. charges & San Diego residents & those living between SAN & say LAX, would have nonstop LCC service to ORY & PPT (for Paris, rather than having to go via Iceland)
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:24 pm

USAOZ wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
do you understand that CBX means you can go to TIJ from San Diego side of border & walk across a bridge to TIJ ? Walk is shorter than at many other airports, check in to the actual aircraft.


It doesn’t matter. No one going to PPT wants to do a land crossing to Mexico first even if it isn’t that hard. It would be a massive fail.
disagree completely. How else can you get from San Diego to PPT ? Drive/shuttle to LAX ?

& cost ?

French Blue would be much cheaper & better than any option out of LAX.


Yes. They’ll go to LAX. This type of traveler isn’t looking for a budget holiday. TIJ would be a spectacular failure. I’m not even sure where you’re getting this idea anyway. Do you have some data that shows there is a massive SAN-PPT market?
 
910A
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:04 pm

zkncj wrote:

Agreed PPT is no budget holiday, nor is most of the Pacific.


I found Fiji very inexpensive, ditto for Vanuatu, but New Caledonia was a different story.
 
babastud
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:38 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:40 pm

USAOZ wrote:
77H wrote:
My understanding of the AF/TN and the possible BF flights via LAX and SFO respectively is to move passengers between Metro France and French Polynesia. The stops in LAX and SFO exist because there is no aircraft in existence that can fly PAR-PPT nonstop.

The added bonus beyond being along the GC path is that LAX and SFO are popular destinations for French passengers that helps fill the aircraft PAR-LAX/SFO and LAX/SFO are large population centers with affluent residents to help fill the LAX/SFO-PPT legs. SAN, as great a city as it is, cannot compete with the aforementioned California markets in the regard.

Even if SAN were to offer cheaper user fees, or even incentives to have the flight stop in SAN over SFO it would be easily negated by the lack of market.

77H

but if TIJ/CBX used instead of SAN, then surely big savings in U.S. charges & San Diego residents & those living between SAN & say LAX, would have nonstop LCC service to ORY & PPT (for Paris, rather than having to go via Iceland)



Way off on this! Travel to PPT is a Niche market, and a very premium expensive vacation. Yes, San Diego area does have people that have the funds to fly to PPT. That is why they travel through LAX. Even SFO(Bay Area) is getting it's first non-stop to PPT in a long time, and it's one of the highest wealth capitols in the world today. Nobody is crossing into mexico, to go to PPT, give it up....
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:23 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

It doesn’t matter. No one going to PPT wants to do a land crossing to Mexico first even if it isn’t that hard. It would be a massive fail.
disagree completely. How else can you get from San Diego to PPT ? Drive/shuttle to LAX ?

& cost ?

French Blue would be much cheaper & better than any option out of LAX.


Yes. They’ll go to LAX. This type of traveler isn’t looking for a budget holiday. TIJ would be a spectacular failure. I’m not even sure where you’re getting this idea anyway. Do you have some data that shows there is a massive SAN-PPT market?[/quote)

so you're suggesting that majority of pax would rather spend an extra 5 hours minimum travelling via one of the worst airports for transferring, rather than go nonstop on an LCC going via CBX(not entering via TIJ side) to PPT & Paris ?

What about all those pax who just want to pay less for airfare ?
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:33 pm

babastud wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
77H wrote:
My understanding of the AF/TN and the possible BF flights via LAX and SFO respectively is to move passengers between Metro France and French Polynesia. The stops in LAX and SFO exist because there is no aircraft in existence that can fly PAR-PPT nonstop.

The added bonus beyond being along the GC path is that LAX and SFO are popular destinations for French passengers that helps fill the aircraft PAR-LAX/SFO and LAX/SFO are large population centers with affluent residents to help fill the LAX/SFO-PPT legs. SAN, as great a city as it is, cannot compete with the aforementioned California markets in the regard.

Even if SAN were to offer cheaper user fees, or even incentives to have the flight stop in SAN over SFO it would be easily negated by the lack of market.

77H

but if TIJ/CBX used instead of SAN, then surely big savings in U.S. charges & San Diego residents & those living between SAN & say LAX, would have nonstop LCC service to ORY & PPT (for Paris, rather than having to go via Iceland)



Way off on this! Travel to PPT is a Niche market, and a very premium expensive vacation. Yes, San Diego area does have people that have the funds to fly to PPT. That is why they travel through LAX. Even SFO(Bay Area) is getting it's first non-stop to PPT in a long time, and it's one of the highest wealth capitols in the world today. Nobody is crossing into mexico, to go to PPT, give it up....
SFO/PPT is French Blue & many of the wealthy around SFO will fly them, as otherwise they have to go via LAX. So think not only should French Blue fly ORY/TIJ/PPT, but think they should also look at ORY/YVR or YXX/PPT. We're not talking daily but rather twice a week.

Another thing, BF should maybe look at is a further extension to Australia, but not SYD. AOM used to fly, ORY/LAX/PPT/NOU/SYD up until take over in 2001, if my memory serves me correctly. A high density A350/A333 could probably not do SFO/Australia nonstop without some sort of weight restriction, so a quick stop in PPT,might work well + it would provide Australians with a nonstop route to PPT.

Also a direct(2 stop) Australia/Paris LCC service with quick stops at PPT & SFO might be competitive with other 1 stops via Asia/Middle East.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:03 am

USAOZ wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
disagree completely. How else can you get from San Diego to PPT ? Drive/shuttle to LAX ?

& cost ?

French Blue would be much cheaper & better than any option out of LAX.


Yes. They’ll go to LAX. This type of traveler isn’t looking for a budget holiday. TIJ would be a spectacular failure. I’m not even sure where you’re getting this idea anyway. Do you have some data that shows there is a massive SAN-PPT market?[/quote)

so you're suggesting that majority of pax would rather spend an extra 5 hours minimum travelling via one of the worst airports for transferring, rather than go nonstop on an LCC going via CBX(not entering via TIJ side) to PPT & Paris ?

What about all those pax who just want to pay less for airfare ?


Yes, they’ll go to LA. TIJ-PPT has to be the dumbest long haul flight suggestion I’ve ever heard. Literally not a single person going from Southern California to PPT wants to go to TIJ first. No one.
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:38 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:


Yes. They’ll go to LAX. This type of traveler isn’t looking for a budget holiday. TIJ would be a spectacular failure. I’m not even sure where you’re getting this idea anyway. Do you have some data that shows there is a massive SAN-PPT market?[/quote)

so you're suggesting that majority of pax would rather spend an extra 5 hours minimum travelling via one of the worst airports for transferring, rather than go nonstop on an LCC going via CBX(not entering via TIJ side) to PPT & Paris ?

What about all those pax who just want to pay less for airfare ?


Yes, they’ll go to LA. TIJ-PPT has to be the dumbest long haul flight suggestion I’ve ever heard. Literally not a single person going from Southern California to PPT wants to go to TIJ first. No one.
you do realise that from San Diego side, they can access TIJ thru CBX without having to enter Mexico 1st. They don't enter TIJ from Mexico side. No driving into Mexico, as that would have car insurance implications.

Check out

https://www.crossborderxpress.com/getting-here
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:58 am

USAOZ wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
USAOZ wrote:

Yes. They’ll go to LAX. This type of traveler isn’t looking for a budget holiday. TIJ would be a spectacular failure. I’m not even sure where you’re getting this idea anyway. Do you have some data that shows there is a massive SAN-PPT market?[/quote)

so you're suggesting that majority of pax would rather spend an extra 5 hours minimum travelling via one of the worst airports for transferring, rather than go nonstop on an LCC going via CBX(not entering via TIJ side) to PPT & Paris ?

What about all those pax who just want to pay less for airfare ?


Yes, they’ll go to LA. TIJ-PPT has to be the dumbest long haul flight suggestion I’ve ever heard. Literally not a single person going from Southern California to PPT wants to go to TIJ first. No one.
you do realise that from San Diego side, they can access TIJ thru CBX without having to enter Mexico 1st. They don't enter TIJ from Mexico side. No driving into Mexico, as that would have car insurance implications.

Check out

https://www.crossborderxpress.com/getting-here


I 100% understand that. It’s still a dumb idea because no one in SoCal going to PPT is thinking about going via TIJ. The airline would make more money setting 2K lbs of fuel on fire.
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:06 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

Yes, they’ll go to LA. TIJ-PPT has to be the dumbest long haul flight suggestion I’ve ever heard. Literally not a single person going from Southern California to PPT wants to go to TIJ first. No one.
you do realise that from San Diego side, they can access TIJ thru CBX without having to enter Mexico 1st. They don't enter TIJ from Mexico side. No driving into Mexico, as that would have car insurance implications.

Check out

https://www.crossborderxpress.com/getting-here


I 100% understand that. It’s still a dumb idea because no one in SoCal going to PPT is thinking about going via TIJ. The airline would make more money setting 2K lbs of fuel on fire.

from SoCal side it's not TIJ/PPT but CBX/PPT but without most of the U.S. hassles. you simply park or get dropped off on the San diego side, but no U.S. security charges. Costs are virtually the same if flew TIJ/PPT, except have to pay a small fee to walk across the short pedestrian bridge.

I think it's brilliant, the more I think about it. Understand why legacies don't use CBX, but LCC's should love it.
 
User avatar
psa1011
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:37 pm

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:35 am

Could someone please remind me why there are no freedom rights for u.s. passengers to use this flight? I tried searching fares for SFO-PPT/ORY and it seems that only the French originating/terminating is allowed.
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:18 am

psa1011 wrote:
Could someone please remind me why there are no freedom rights for u.s. passengers to use this flight? I tried searching fares for SFO-PPT/ORY and it seems that only the French originating/terminating is allowed.

presume this means they rights aren't sorted yet. When are they due to commence ? Middle of 2018 is it ?
 
simpv
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:19 pm

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:22 am

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... 18-launch/
Begin 11 May 2018, SFO is a technical stop until approval from the US.
 
USAOZ
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: RUMOR : French Blue on ORY - SFO - PPT market

Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:26 am

simpv wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/276143/french-blue-confirms-tahiti-may-2018-launch/
Begin 11 May 2018, SFO is a technical stop until approval from the US.

so hopefully they get U.S. approval soon, otherwise they would be better off flying via TIJ & provide service for all those americans living south of LA via CBX.

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