Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
LAXintl wrote:Lease terminations don't happen overnight, They happen as result of payment delinquency, or other dispute over terms.
StarAdvertiser wrote:In the second quarter, Island Air earned $12.5 million in revenue ... but saw its quarterly loss widen to $8.2 million from $5.1 million in 2Q16
jnev3289 wrote:Question: If someone were to buy their AOC, do they inherit all the debt too? Or is the AOC an asset of the company itself, which is in debt?
hnl-jack wrote:The whole situation surrounding Island Air is unfortunate. Recently they have shown they can gain a following locally, but the changes in ownership, management and aircraft are each difficult in their own right. Combine them and the task must be overwhelming.
As to WN entering the inter island market, I'm extremely doubtful. Those 737's engines won't be able to handle the quick turns without a longer than would be practical ground time to cool down. I could see an occasional inter island flight as a tag on to a mainland to a neighbor island, a leg to HNL for a red eye back to the mainland. Much more local demand for overnight flights to the mainland on O'ahu.
LAXintl wrote:Lease terminations don't happen overnight, They happen as result of payment delinquency, or other dispute over terms.
Island Air was $4.4 million behind on lease payments to Dublin, Ireland-based Elix Assets 8 Ltd., owner of the three planes, when two Elix representatives showed up in Hawaii to take possession of the aircraft, Island Air said in a Tuesday filing in federal Bankruptcy Court.
. . .
“Without any prior notice, Tom Dalton and Phillippe Poutissou are in Honolulu attempting to repossess the aircraft,” an Island Air attorney wrote in a letter to Elix last week. “Be advised that their actions constitute a breach of the peace and the appropriate authorities at Honolulu Airport and airports on the neighbor islands have been advised to not allow Dalton and Poutissou or any agent of lessors to access the aircraft. Any attempt to repossess or approach the aircraft is unlawful and will be deemed trespassing.”
hnl-jack wrote:As to WN entering the inter island market, I'm extremely doubtful. Those 737's engines won't be able to handle the quick turns without a longer than would be practical ground time to cool down. I could see an occasional inter island flight as a tag on to a mainland to a neighbor island, a leg to HNL for a red eye back to the mainland. Much more local demand for overnight flights to the mainland on O'ahu.
mcg wrote:If two of Island Air's Q400's have been returned to lessor, how do they stay in business? How many planes remain?
mercure1 wrote:Sure someone shows up one day to take the planes, but this does not happen overnight without a reason. It would be a violation of the contract.
Island Air which was $4.4mil behind on payments was obviously at risk of losing the aircraft. One cant be surprised owner wanting their property back.
mcg wrote:So did the lessor grab the planes pre-bk? island Air prolly should have filed a little sooner.
HNLPointShoot wrote:According to today's Star-Advertiser, that's exactly the case (and the lessor had people in HNL to repossess the Q400s):Island Air was $4.4 million behind on lease payments to Dublin, Ireland-based Elix Assets 8 Ltd., owner of the three planes, when two Elix representatives showed up in Hawaii to take possession of the aircraft, Island Air said in a Tuesday filing in federal Bankruptcy Court.
.)
SWADawg wrote:hnl-jack wrote:As to WN entering the inter island market, I'm extremely doubtful. Those 737's engines won't be able to handle the quick turns without a longer than would be practical ground time to cool down. I could see an occasional inter island flight as a tag on to a mainland to a neighbor island, a leg to HNL for a red eye back to the mainland. Much more local demand for overnight flights to the mainland on O'ahu.
Why does this keep coming up. I fly the 737 and I can tell you that the engine cool down will not be a major issue for WN doing inter island. You do realize that for most of WN's entire existence that there was a ton of short fights with 15-20 minute turns. HOU-AUS, MDW-IND, MDW-GRR (just flew this one last night, flight time 22 minutes in the air at FL 220. Ever heard of the WN 10 minute turn from back in the day? WN will be fine flying most likely dedicated-700's inter island.
LAXintl wrote:HNLPointShoot wrote:According to today's Star-Advertiser, that's exactly the case (and the lessor had people in HNL to repossess the Q400s):Island Air was $4.4 million behind on lease payments to Dublin, Ireland-based Elix Assets 8 Ltd., owner of the three planes, when two Elix representatives showed up in Hawaii to take possession of the aircraft, Island Air said in a Tuesday filing in federal Bankruptcy Court.
.)
Like the article states - Island Air was way behind on payments and in breach of lease terms, so obviously they will be subject to repo.
As I stated repossessions don't occur overnight. Banks and lessors only take aircraft back as last resort. Like your car, if you fail to make payments on it, one day it may no longer be parked outside where you left it.
LAXintl wrote:.
Btw - to show bad things are at Island Air - per DOT filings, its lost money for 17 straight quarters!
mcg wrote:One thing we know for sure is that being the #2 interisland airline is losing proposition.
The crux of the bankruptcy hinges on a leasing dispute between Island Air and Elix. The aircraft lessor said it is entitled to take back the airplanes after Island Air defaulted on $4.58 million in payments and failed to satisfy conditions under a deferral agreement. . . .
Elix said after Island Air failed to remedy its payment defaults, the lessor attempted to accommodate Island Air by entering into a lease payment deferral and amendment agreement on Sept. 15 as well as other transactions to provide the necessary liquidity to the airline.
OA940 wrote:So this is the, like 5th or 6th airline that might be closing down or IS closing down in 2017. Great.
VirginFlyer wrote:OA940 wrote:So this is the, like 5th or 6th airline that might be closing down or IS closing down in 2017. Great.
In fairness this isn't something special to 2017; the industry is notoriously fickle.
V/F
Prost wrote:Maybe Delta should ship 5-10 717s to Hawai’i. It’d pretty much explode a few heads on this board.
SWADawg wrote:hnl-jack wrote:As to WN entering the inter island market, I'm extremely doubtful. Those 737's engines won't be able to handle the quick turns without a longer than would be practical ground time to cool down. I could see an occasional inter island flight as a tag on to a mainland to a neighbor island, a leg to HNL for a red eye back to the mainland. Much more local demand for overnight flights to the mainland on O'ahu.
Why does this keep coming up. I fly the 737 and I can tell you that the engine cool down will not be a major issue for WN doing inter island. You do realize that for most of WN's entire existence that there was a ton of short fights with 15-20 minute turns. HOU-AUS, MDW-IND, MDW-GRR (just flew this one last night, flight time 22 minutes in the air at FL 220. Ever heard of the WN 10 minute turn from back in the day? WN will be fine flying most likely dedicated-700's inter island.
Prost wrote:Maybe Delta should ship 5-10 717s to Hawai’i. It’d pretty much explode a few heads on this board.